How would you rank him?
 

With all the talk about Smoot there has been little talk of his tallent. Where would you rank Smoot among the other corners in the league and is he asking for more than he is worth?

Top 10 maybe, top 15 definitely. Definitely not top 5 money like he's looking for.

15 sounds about right

I would put Springs way ahead of Smoot.

Top 15...no way he's top 5.

Top 15 - Good CB, but certainly not elite!

Plays bigger than he is, but not in the same league as Dieon Sanders.

I'M KIDDING!

I love Smoot, I think he's what Gibbs defines as a Redskin. How do you equate that to pay? It's tough.......I just hope they get the deal done or I'm going to have to replate another authentic jersey, damn it.

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]I'M KIDDING!

I love Smoot, I think he's what Gibbs defines as a Redskin. How do you equate that to pay? It's tough.......I just hope they get the deal done or I'm going to have to replate another authentic jersey, damn it.[/QUOTE]


Dude, don't feel bad. I had to do the same with my Champ jersey.

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Dude, don't feel bad. I had to do the same with my Champ jersey.[/QUOTE]

Fortunately there's a Chick's Sports that does some good plate and number work for me. $15 saves an authentic from being an embarrassment.

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]Fortunately there's a Chick's Sports that does some good plate and number work for me. $15 saves an authentic from being an embarrassment.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm thinking of making my Champ jersey....a Kelvin Bryant jersey!

CBs above smoot in no order

ronde barber, surtain, law, bailey, mcalister, winfield, springs, clements, mckenzie, dunta robinson, bly...i have him at 13th best. i think he beats out madison at this stage in his career, rolle, sheppard, etc.

Antoine Winfield just got a 6 year $35 million deal with a $10.8 million signing bonus. That's about what we offered Smoot and he's not as good as Winfield (who's far more physical).

We all agree that he's asking for to much money. This is where the Redskins run into trouble all the time. They give other teams players above market deals and then they expect their own players to stay for market or below market deals. When a loyal current Redskin sees outsiders handed the keys to the cookie jar they end up slighted if they are not treated in the same manner. In pro sports money equals love and respect. I think if the Redskins start treating all free agents with a level hand no matter what jersey they wore last year they will find negotiations easier in the future.

As for his ranking I would agree with the previous posts that place him around 15th.

I'd say he's in the 10-15 range, probably closer to 10. So much of rating CB's is subjective.....someone can have a "great year" with a lot of stats, or they can not have the stats because they are doing their job, and the ball isn't thrown their way. I think Smoot usually falls somewhere in between, and I agree with RedskinRat in that he "plays bigger than he is." The past couple years he has really worked on his tackling and toughness, and I love the way he just throws his body around to make a tackle.
He is asking for too much, but I truly hope he and Skins can compromise and work out a deal to keep him around. It will be interesting if they don't, he becomes a free agent and doesn't get offers for the $$$ he wants...would he come back to the Skins' offer???

should we be comparing Smoot to all corners or just those on the market right now?

[QUOTE=celts32]We all agree that he's asking for to much money. This is where the Redskins run into trouble all the time. They give other teams players above market deals and then they expect their own players to stay for market or below market deals. When a loyal current Redskin sees outsiders handed the keys to the cookie jar they end up slighted if they are not treated in the same manner. In pro sports money equals love and respect. I think if the Redskins start treating all free agents with a level hand no matter what jersey they wore last year they will find negotiations easier in the future. [/QUOTE]

DING DING DING - I believe we have a winner! I can't remember how many times I have heard Skins FA's say "I just wanted to be treated like the guys they bring in from other teams" (Jansen pops to mind).

Give Smoot a ride in Redskin 1, hell let him fly the damn thing and stop overpaying for other teams FA's (though I think they did a better job of that last year - other than Brunnell).

As for Smoot's ranking - there are 64 starting corners in the league, I think he is in the 20-30 range myself. Good 2nd corner but not a true number 1. Just don't think he covers well enough to match up against the top receiver week in and week out.

Guys, that's the name of the free agency game, you [i]have[/i] to overpay to lure players away.

There are plenty of teams around the league that refuse to overpay for their own players, the Patriots with Milloy, the Steelers with too many players to keep track of and the Redskins to a similar extent.

When Champ was here, they were a hell of duo. Thats why Joe let Gregg Williams pick Sean Taylor instead of Winslow last year. Because he sold champ to improve the offense with Portis. He is an excellent number 2. And a slightly above average 1. With help from the safeties he is pretty good. He's just so small to get involved consistently in the outside run defense. He did do better this year though.

I wish we had players like Brady who just wanted to play for the love of the game and deal with the fact that even a MILLION dollars is more than a lot of people will earn in their lifetimes.

Smoot is just outside the top 10 in my opinion. Big C hit most of them, and I agree with just about all of them. I wish Smoot would stay here, but if he wants more money and can get it, more power to him. I'm deifntley not going to be mad at the FO if we dont get him back, because they have offered what I belive is a very fair offer, so if he declined, so be it. I am going to follow him very closley, because I'm extremley interested to see what he can get in FA; I personally dont feel he will get much more than he would have with our contract.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Guys, that's the name of the free agency game, you [i]have[/i] to overpay to lure players away.

There are plenty of teams around the league that refuse to overpay for their own players, the Patriots with Milloy, the Steelers with too many players to keep track of and the Redskins to a similar extent.[/QUOTE]


You do have to overpay to some extent but come on, no one rings the cash register like the Redskins. Coles & Portis deals come to mind of the current players. They so badly overpaid those guys. They made Portis the highest paid RB in the league and gave Coles like the biggest signing bonus in WR history. Neither one is the top player at his position. Sometimes it's like they bid against themselves. I know free agency is all about overpaying, but the Redskins have taken it to a new level and the current players know it and expect to get the same treatment.

1) Champ Bailey
2) Ty Law
3) Chris McAlister
4) Dre Bly
5) Sam Madison
6) Patrick Surtain
7) Charles Woodson
8) Lito Shepphard
9) Ronde Barber
10) Antoine Winfield
11) Shawn Springs
12) Fred Smoot
13) Nate Clements
14) Tory James
15) Dunta Robinson

I may have missed a guy or two, but I'd say Springs is a bit better than Smoot. Springs is certainly more accomplished, he's been to several Pro Bowls, and Springs got $10,250,000 as a signing bonus. Even if you add a bit to that figuring that Smoot is younger, and maybe a little bit for a year's worth of inflation, I can't see giving Smoot more than $12 million TOPS. I'd shoot for $11 million if I were negotiating it. His $14 Million demand is too high.

[QUOTE=celts32]You do have to overpay to some extent but come on, no one rings the cash register like the Redskins. Coles & Portis deals come to mind of the current players. They so badly overpaid those guys. They made Portis the highest paid RB in the league and gave Coles like the biggest signing bonus in WR history. Neither one is the top player at his position. Sometimes it's like they bid against themselves. I know free agency is all about overpaying, but the Redskins have taken it to a new level and the current players know it and expect to get the same treatment.[/QUOTE]

True, but in Coles' case since he was a restricted free agent they had to overpay. As for Portis I think the jury is still out as to whether or not we overpaid, if he blows up for 1500+ yards next year and double digit TD's I for one won't be complaining.

I guess you can alwasy say that if a guy plays well that it was justified, but at the point they gave both guys the money it was to much. They way overpaid Coles. I know they were trying to keep the Jets from matching the deal but they went way overboard. The whole league was shocked at that contract they offered Coles. That's the kind of move that opens the current players eyes and makes them want to be paid as the top player at their position. I can just hear Smoot saying "They pay everyone else as the top player at their position so why not me?"

[QUOTE=Schneed10]1) Champ Bailey
2) Ty Law
3) Chris McAlister
4) Dre Bly
5) Sam Madison
6) Patrick Surtain
7) Charles Woodson
8) Lito Shepphard
9) Ronde Barber
10) Antoine Winfield
11) Shawn Springs
12) Fred Smoot
13) Nate Clements
14) Tory James
15) Dunta Robinson

I may have missed a guy or two, but I'd say Springs is a bit better than Smoot. Springs is certainly more accomplished, he's been to several Pro Bowls, and Springs got $10,250,000 as a signing bonus. Even if you add a bit to that figuring that Smoot is younger, and maybe a little bit for a year's worth of inflation, I can't see giving Smoot more than $12 million TOPS. I'd shoot for $11 million if I were negotiating it. His $14 Million demand is too high.[/QUOTE]

Welcome to the board. Nice post, although I'd probably knock Woodson down a couple of pegs. He's become a bit of a headcase who hasn't lived up to the promise of his first couple of years. And I think Mcalister benefits greatly from playing in Baltimore.

I agree that $14 million is too high a demand, but I'm sure Smoot and his agent know it as well. It's just a starting point. I think $11.5 is where it ends up.

With Smoot all you have to say is look at the deal we gave Springs, why should we give you $4M more in a signing bonus??

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]With Smoot all you have to say is look at the deal we gave Springs, why should we give you $4M more in a signing bonus??[/QUOTE]

This is a good point. Smoots demands are just rediculous...

He's been talking to Champ, but he's NOT Champ. This whole thing just stinks. He is a good player and the kind of leader the Skins are looking for, but some people are just putting rediculous ideas in his head of what his worth on the open market is. It's a shame, becasue he is going to leave. That seems certain at this point...

[QUOTE=celts32]You do have to overpay to some extent but come on, no one rings the cash register like the Redskins. Coles & Portis deals come to mind of the current players. They so badly overpaid those guys. They made Portis the highest paid RB in the league and gave Coles like the biggest signing bonus in WR history. Neither one is the top player at his position. Sometimes it's like they bid against themselves. I know free agency is all about overpaying, but the Redskins have taken it to a new level and the current players know it and expect to get the same treatment.[/QUOTE]

Matty's right you have to overpay guys to get them...
This whole deal about being the highest paid running back is silly. Where a guy falls on the salary ladder has less to do with talent and more to do with timing. Portis is the highest paid RB not because he is the best RB in the league(which he may be anyways...but thats beside the point) but because he is the last big time RB to make a deal. It's guranteed that the next big time RB who makes gets a deal will be paid more. It's just the way it works. Don't equate him being the highest paid with meaning he should be the best(which is ridiculously subjective anyways). Equate it with being one of the top couple players who just happens to have the newest deal.

[QUOTE=FRPLG]Matty's right you have to overpay guys to get them...
This whole deal about being the highest paid running back is silly. Where a guy falls on the salary ladder has less to do with talent and more to do with timing. Portis is the highest paid RB not because he is the best RB in the league(which he may be anyways...but thats beside the point) but because he is the last big time RB to make a deal. It's guranteed that the next big time RB who makes gets a deal will be paid more. It's just the way it works. Don't equate him being the highest paid with meaning he should be the best(which is ridiculously subjective anyways). Equate it with being one of the top couple players who just happens to have the newest deal.[/QUOTE]

Exactly! This is why the argument some people make of "can you believe the Redskins gave Trotter a better deal than Ray Lewis' is a bit flawed....it's all in the timing"

I don't think there is anyway Smoot is a top 15 conerback, he is an improving tackler with good cover skills on the second reciever. He has always been cocky so he wants the kind of money that he thinks he deserves, but if we release him he will find out no one wants to pay him the outragous kind of money he thinks he deserves. That's why I want to stick with what we have, and I believe that our existing corners should fill in.

Smoot is a top 15 CB in the NFL. Springs is in the top 15 also. Smoot means a lot more to us than he would to anyone else because he embodies the qualities Gibbs desires on the field and because we are striving for more coninuity around here. In a fantasy world he would get several offers all of about the same value with ours being a little better since he means more to us than he would to others. This would be a rather fantastical true free market. This is not what the NFL has. They have a bastardized free market where teams are limited in money they can spend at any one time therefore limiting when they shell out the money. Unfortunately the NFL has a serious dearth of quality CBs. After the top 20 or so the talent falls precipitously making Smoot all the more valuable in a high demand market. Again we're talking about timing. Smoot will be one of just a few good quality CBs around and will get a ridiculous offer from someone who has the money and the need. Unfortunately for us we have the desire, but not quite the need and nowhere near the money that is going to take. Unless we only sign Smoot. Welcome to the salary cap world.

[QUOTE=Schneed10]1) Champ Bailey
2) Ty Law
3) Chris McAlister
4) Dre Bly
5) Sam Madison
6) Patrick Surtain
7) Charles Woodson
8) Lito Shepphard
9) Ronde Barber
10) Antoine Winfield
11) Shawn Springs
12) Fred Smoot
13) Nate Clements
14) Tory James
15) Dunta Robinson

I may have missed a guy or two, but I'd say Springs is a bit better than Smoot. Springs is certainly more accomplished, he's been to several Pro Bowls, and Springs got $10,250,000 as a signing bonus. Even if you add a bit to that figuring that Smoot is younger, and maybe a little bit for a year's worth of inflation, I can't see giving Smoot more than $12 million TOPS. I'd shoot for $11 million if I were negotiating it. His $14 Million demand is too high.[/QUOTE]
Where are all of the Patriots receivers on your list. I know atleast one should be top 10. haha

[QUOTE=Duffman003]...but if we release him he will find out no one wants to pay him the outragous kind of money he thinks he deserves.[/QUOTE]

Smoot will get a crazy deal from someone I would bet my house on it. he's gonna end up with a nice 13-14 mil signing bonus because some will need a cb and see that their choices are...trade for surtain(malcontent), sign Law to a one year deal(and lose him when he plays well) and.... what are the other options? I guess draft a cb but ther are maybe one or two who are first year starters. Smoot will be coveted which means he is gone.

[QUOTE=FRPLG]Smoot will get a crazy deal from someone I would bet my house on it. he's gonna end up with a nice 13-14 mil signing bonus because some will need a cb and see that their choices are...trade for surtain(malcontent), sign Law to a one year deal(and lose him when he plays well) and.... what are the other options? I guess draft a cb but ther are maybe one or two who are first year starters. Smoot will be coveted which means he is gone.[/QUOTE]

You're right to an extent, there are some other decent options out there though; namely Ken Lucas from the Seahawks, Charles Woodson is up for FA from the Raiders, and Aaron Beasley from the Falcons. But Smoot would qualify as the only young guy just entering the prime of his career. Who knows whether he'll be able to get his $14 million, but if I'm the Redskins I don't pay more than $11 or $12 million because Walt Harris certainly seems capable. And Gregg Williams speaks very highly of Garnell Wilds. After what Williams did with Pierce, Ryan Clark, and Salavae'a, I'm inclined to buy into his opinion of Wilds.

[QUOTE=FRPLG]Matty's right you have to overpay guys to get them...
This whole deal about being the highest paid running back is silly. Where a guy falls on the salary ladder has less to do with talent and more to do with timing. Portis is the highest paid RB not because he is the best RB in the league(which he may be anyways...but thats beside the point) but because he is the last big time RB to make a deal. It's guranteed that the next big time RB who makes gets a deal will be paid more. It's just the way it works. Don't equate him being the highest paid with meaning he should be the best(which is ridiculously subjective anyways). Equate it with being one of the top couple players who just happens to have the newest deal.[/QUOTE]


What you say is true and you can make that argument on the Portis deal, but the Coles deal was just silly. It was a league wide joke what we paid him. I remember being embarrassed about it when someone would ask me what they are doing. The excuse about having to outbid the Jets only holds water to a certain extent. They passed that extent by about 10 million dollars. And I am sure that contract gets thrown in theri face every time they try and do a deal with a current player.

I only used Portis's deal as an example becasue they did set the market with the deal, but it was a little more understandable given his age and the seasons he had put up in Denver.

Matty:

You said:

There are plenty of teams around the league that refuse to overpay for their own players, the Patriots with Milloy, the Steelers with too many players to keep track of and the Redskins to a similar extent.


Problem is the records that the Pats and Steelers - and the Eagels too - amass with their implementation of this strategy compared to Danny Boy and his Front Office mavens.

[QUOTE=celts32]What you say is true and you can make that argument on the Portis deal, but the Coles deal was just silly. It was a league wide joke what we paid him. I remember being embarrassed about it when someone would ask me what they are doing. The excuse about having to outbid the Jets only holds water to a certain extent. They passed that extent by about 10 million dollars. And I am sure that contract gets thrown in theri face every time they try and do a deal with a current player.

I only used Portis's deal as an example becasue they did set the market with the deal, but it was a little more understandable given his age and the seasons he had put up in Denver.[/QUOTE]

Ummm...actually no. The Coles deal was constructed so that the Jets could not match it. To simply offer more would have meant that the Jets would have matched instead they structured a deal that fiscally impossible for the Jets to match. It's not like the Skins just arbitrarily decided to pay him that much more for no good reason.

[QUOTE=FRPLG]Matty's right you have to overpay guys to get them...
This whole deal about being the highest paid running back is silly. Where a guy falls on the salary ladder has less to do with talent and more to do with timing. Portis is the highest paid RB not because he is the best RB in the league(which he may be anyways...but thats beside the point) but because he is the last big time RB to make a deal. It's guranteed that the next big time RB who makes gets a deal will be paid more. It's just the way it works. Don't equate him being the highest paid with meaning he should be the best(which is ridiculously subjective anyways). Equate it with being one of the top couple players who just happens to have the newest deal.[/QUOTE]

What you say is true and you can make that argument on the Portis deal, but the Coles deal was just silly. It was a league wide joke what we paid him. I remember being embarrassed about it when someone would ask me what they are doing. The excuse about having to outbid the Jets only holds water to a certain extent. They passed that extent by about 10 million dollars. And I am sure that contract gets thrown in theri face every time they try and do a deal with a current player.

I only used Portis's deal as an example becasue they did set the market with the deal, but it was a little more understandable given his age and the seasons he had put up in Denver.

And also..if you remember we lost our 1st round pick for doing. Essentially the Skins drafted an experienced WR who had a 1000 yard season under his belt and was young. On top of that they actually(I think) ended up paying just about what they would have paid their first round pick.

Of course since then he has had injury issues but those were unforeseeable. If he is healthy Coles is a top 10 receiver in the league.