![]() |
Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
Just for some perspective ...
1(13) -- Brian Orakpo 3(80) -- Kevin Barnes 5(158) -- Cody Glenn 6(186) -- Robert Henson 7(243) -- Marko Mitchell 7(221) -- Eddie Williams [B][I]Orakpo[/I][/B] - Looking at the picks, obviously Orakpo was solid pick. At the same time, other LB's chosen after him include Cushing at 15 and Mathews at 26. Of the three, although I like Orakpo a lot, I think the better pick would have been Mathews. At the same time, the DE's chosen above him and behind him have not gotten Rak's sack numbers. T. Jackson [1(3) by KC], Maybin [1(11) Buffalo], Everette Brown [1(32) Pitt]. Rak's got 28.5 sacks, Mathews 29.5 - no one else is in double digits. Given that we were drafting a DE at the time, the Rak pick was the best we could have done from the class. Neither the DE or LB class appear to have produced a late round sleeper either. In addition, while many good players were chosen at other positions later in the first round, none were "Holy Crap how did everyone miss that" good. [H. Nicks, Cushing, Maclin, Oher]. Taking it all into consideration - Orakpo was an A+ pick with an non-top 10 selection. Cudos to Vinny on this one (Yes, I just threw up a little in my mouth). [I][B]Barnes[/B][/I] - meh ... passed on Ladarius Webb [3(88), Balt.] to pick him which looks to have been a mistake. At the same time, last year was the first that Webb was a full time starter. He did get extended but not sure if that was by choice or default in Baltimore. Here are the other DB's from the 3rd round: 3(66) STL - Bradley Fletcher 3(73) JAX - Derek Cox 3(80) WAS - Kevin Barnes 3 (86) MIN - Asher Allen 3 (88) BAL - Lardarius Webb 3 (90) ATL - Christopher Owens 3 (92) IND - Jerraud Powers 3 (94) TEN - Ryan Mouton 3 (95) ARI - Rashad Johnson 3 (96) PIT - Keenan Lewis Only Fletcher, Cox and Webb have started more than 12 games and none of them more than 15. At the same time, all but Fletcher (27 games), Mouton (23 games) have fewer games than Barnes (28) [Lewis had 29 and all the rest 35 or more with Owens (46) and Webb (44) topping the list]. The class in later rounds yeilded some guys with more games and starts but, again, no real standouts. The big hit in the round, chosen at 3(85), was Mike Wallace - he of the first round tender. So in a lackluster class of DB's we got one that seems to have lacked more luster than some of the others. Even though he was thought to be a bit of steal b/c he was coming off an injury - it appears Barnes was a swing and a miss. I give it a "D" b/c he has not been a complete washout - we have gotten smoe games out of him. [B][I]Glenn[/I][/B] -- Of the 36 picks, positionally (LB), no one stands out in the round. Further, Glenn gave us two years and 19 games (with 2 starts) as opposed 19 guys who only made it one year or less (14 appeared to washout in camp). 14 guys from the round have played 12 or more games and were on a roster at the end of the 2011. Notables include Javon Ringer (RB, Tenn) and Chris Clemons (a now UFA safety from Cinci). Given that a lot of teams got nothing from their picks this round, I give the Glenn pick a C-. [B][I]Henson[/I][/B] -- Again, 36 picks in teh round. Of them, 19 were on NFL rosters at the end of 2011. Including such shining stars as Curtis Painter (Colts at 201) and Brandon Gibson (Philly at 194). Gibson seems to be the find of the round with 132 receptions - BUT he did that with St. Louis not the team that drafted him. Honorable mention goes to James McCourty (Tenn. at 203) with 12 starts, 42 games, 137 tackles and a pick. Given the number of current players that came out of this round and the fact that Henson only made it through 2009, I give this a "D". [B][I]Mitchell, Williams[/I][/B] - 19 of 56 picks in the round were on a roster at the end of 2011. If we were looking for WR's, Julien Edelman and S. Strouther were available when we picked Williams (both gone when we picked Mitchell). If we were looking for RB's R. Jennings was available at the end of the round and appears to be the class of the 7th round. Williams was one of only 16 guys who didn't even make the roster. Mitchell gave us a year. There were multiple guys with 40+ games chosen in the round. Given the number of "keepers" in this round, plus the fact that we had 2 picks, I give us an F. So, minus the Orakpo pick, Vinny's final draft was, at best, a C- but I think it really was a pretty solid D. Orakpo saves the draft, however, and pulls it up to the B-/C+ range given the Rak's production versus the production of those chosen around him and the DE/OLB class in general. There were lots of ways to go with the first pick that could have failed. So, there it is. Three years later ... 6 picks, one borderline pro bowler, one maybe make the team as a nickel corner DB and 3 out of the NFL. <blechh> All info obtained from: [url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2009/draft.htm]2009 NFL Draft Listing - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url] |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
I don't think you need to go in depth and try to break it down..
We have one player from this draft who doesn't have a negative impact. Fortunately it was out first round pick. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
I think it will be more interesting to review our 2010 draft next year since that's the first of the current regime
|
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
I thought that was an interesting breakdown. Like SS said, the 2010 3 year grades will be interesting to see.
|
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
Nice work Joe.
I was going to suggest we go back and look at 09 since it is 3 years now. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
[quote=SmootSmack;914317]I think it will be more interesting to review our 2010 draft next year since that's the first of the current regime[/quote]
Yeah that be cool! Just don't ever review the 2008 draft, that has to be one of our worst draft ever. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
that was a shitty draft by a shitty FO, Danny and Zorn.
|
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
Part of the reason I did this was to see just what should be expected, based on the percentages, from a pick from a certain round - how many make it out of camp, how many last more than a year, etc.
In rounds one and two, only 2 players are not still in the NFL. In round 3, 6 guys did not make it out of camp and another 2 aren't in the league. In the 4th, 5 didn't make it out of camp and 4 aren't in the league. in the 5th, 16 didn't make itou of camp and 7 more aren't in the league. in the 6th, 7 didn't make itou of camp and 10 more aren't in the league. in the 7th, 15 didn't make itou of camp and 4 more aren't in the league. So (based on 2009), from the 4th round on, you have about a 60% fail rate for picks by year 3. Sounds about right. Also, looking at the various starts/games listed, rounds 4-7 seem pretty similar - i.e. no appreciably higher games from round 4 versus round 5. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
Excellent thread Joe! Since you can't really grade a draft for three years, you did a good job of picking up the ball and running with it.
As for 2009: - It is hard to hate the Rak pick, even with Matthews out there. - Barnes sadly has struggled but so have several other DB picks from the same round. Maybe we should have picked a different position in the third. - as for the other picks...sheesh. You hope that 50% of your picks work out but we did not come close to that. Vinny Cerrato for President! |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
Typical Vinny draft, short on picks and all the bang comes from the top.
|
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
Orakpo has been the only one worth a damn so far. I think he'd be better off as a DE in a 4-3, but nobody foresaw the 3-4 coming. With that said he's still a valuable contributor in a 3-4. Nobody else in that class worth mentioning, and that's not suprising. Anybody want to do this with the 2008 draft? I'd shudder to think what our grade in that draft is now. Fred Davis and Reed Doughty are the only ones left from that one, and half the fans here hate Doughty.
|
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
If Orakpo was on GB, he would lead the league in sacks and could be in the running for defensive player of the year.
Matthews is good but benefits greatly from playing on a much better defense. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
[quote=mooby;914346]Orakpo has been the only one worth a damn so far. I think he'd be better off as a DE in a 4-3, but nobody foresaw the 3-4 coming. With that said he's still a valuable contributor in a 3-4. Nobody else in that class worth mentioning, and that's not suprising. Anybody want to do this with the 2008 draft? I'd shudder to think what our grade in that draft is now. Fred Davis and Reed Doughty are the only ones left from that one, and half the fans here hate Doughty.[/quote]
I beleive Reed came in the 2006 draft. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
[quote=mredskins;914368]I beleive Reed came in the 2006 draft.[/quote]
You're right, I was thinking of Kareem Moore. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
[quote=mooby;914374]You're right, I was thinking of Kareem Moore.[/quote]
God I feel like Reed has been here since the dawn of time. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
This is a really awesome review, thanks for the insight Joe. I was just wondering what Cody Glenn was up to the other day. I think he was the biggest reach of that draft considering limited experience and conversion to a LB, but as you point out no LB really sticks out in the 3rd round.
Marko Mitchell was my faviort player of our 2009 draft but i think he is pretty much out of football at this point. Maybe we released Gaffney to pick him back up? Also, while not drafted, Chase Dainels was a rookie signing that year. He already has 1 superbowl. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
[quote=SmootSmack;914317]I think it will be more interesting to review our 2010 draft next year since that's the first of the current regime[/quote]
I don't think 2010 was very good. Riley looks like a good player. Williams has probably underachieved. Other than that is there anyone else that's contributing? 2011 looks like more of a legit draft class. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
[quote=jamf;914362]If Orakpo was on GB, he would lead the league in sacks and could be in the running for defensive player of the year.
Matthews is good but benefits greatly from playing on a much better defense.[/quote] i agree completely, hopefully pretty soon he will be putting up similar numbers as our defense improves, hes got the ability. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
[quote=mredskins;914321]Yeah that be cool!
Just don't ever review the 2008 draft, that has to be one of our worst draft ever.[/quote] we really messed that one up... 2nd round just gives me nightmares. Fred Davis is the only saving grace of this draft. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
[url]https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/04/06/draft-grader-washington-redskins/[/url]
Not trying to hijack or nothin, but this is a short recent review of 08, 09 and 10. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
great info - thanks!
and i agree, i wasn't super happy about that draft at the time, but i felt like rak was basically the safest pick in the entire draft, and i was really glad we got him (his measureables, stats, etc pre-draft were all exactly what you'd want to see in a productive DE with absolutely nothing missing, though nothing crazy either like 4.4 40s). since pass rushers seem to bust about 50% of the time, even early, safe is GOOD. and reed HAS been here forever. we got him round 6 pick 4 and it was a steal to get a 120 tackle/year guy that late (ncaa high stat guys (over multiple years) tend to be productive in the NFL, though his 40 times told you he'd be too slow to be a reliable starter). other high ncaa stat guys (NOT one year wonders) are stephen tulloch, chris cooley (100+ catches), etc, etc. It tends to map well, though you've got to look at drill numbers to make sure NFL speed isn't going to be an issue. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
Man, how did we miss on Webb? That would have been nice given how he turned out. Good thread JoeRedskins.
|
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
Cool thread Joe!! Your analysis is dialed in, but I also wonder if Matthews benefited from a better defense? I believe GB's defense regressed in 2011...did Matthews production remain similar to his '09 and '10 seasons?
|
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
[quote=The Goat;914475]Cool thread Joe!! Your analysis is dialed in, but I also wonder if Matthews benefited from a better defense? I believe GB's defense regressed in 2011...did Matthews production remain similar to his '09 and '10 seasons?[/quote]
he had less sacks than orakpo. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
2008 draft was nail in the coffin. Still trying to recover from Malcom Kelly, Devin Thomas 2nd rounders. Drafting Cousins isn't a mistake.
|
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
2008 draft was nail in the coffin. Still trying to recover from Malcom Kelly, Devin Thomas 2nd rounders. Drafting Cousins isn't a mistake.
|
Cousins is a crap shoot just like any other qb. I like the pick as well but there is a reason that all of the other nfl teams passed on him three times. Best case is he plays well in the preseason and maybe the last game in 2013 if we have playoffs wrapped up and we get a draf pick for him
|
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
[quote=Mattyk;914345]Typical Vinny draft, short on picks and all the bang comes from the top.[/quote]
That is how it usually works for any franchise, any given year. If a player isn't picked by the 5th round, he usually is just a serviceable senior that started for a Div I program, but wasn't really anything to write home about. Our drafts have sucked in the recent past because like you said we had few picks, but we also had drafts where we wasted picks on positions that were tight already. Remember when under Gibbs, Vinny and co. drafted 3 RBs, when we already had CP, and two rather good backups. We needed offensive linemen or defensive linemen, and he got us 3 RBs that we didn't need. Also, when your prize first round QB(JC), ends up like the last prize first round QB(Ramsey) you are going to be thrown for a loop for a while. IF Griffin turns out to be the bust of the century we will have effectively shot ourselves in the foot. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
[quote=VegasSkinsFan;914790]Cousins is a crap shoot just like any other qb. I like the pick as well but there is a reason that all of the other nfl teams passed on him three times. Best case is he plays well in the preseason and maybe the last game in 2013 if we have playoffs wrapped up and we get a draf pick for him[/quote]
Keep Cousins. Cousins isn't meant to be a starter. Get with the program now. Beck sucked. Grossman sucks. Grossman is a slow ass in every sense of the word. Do you really want a slow ass to take over if Robert gets banged up and has to miss a game or two, or three? Cousins is a good backup, with a good arm, and isn't Rex Grossman or John Beck. Cousins is a definite upgrade for our QB corp. Like somone said in the Cousins draft thread, he is our new Gus. If Robert goes down ,or in the unlikely event he can't make the adjustment to the pro game, hopefully Kirk can come in and at least make us competitive. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
We might lose Cousins if there is a market for him after his contract is up, but unless he turns out to be a bust himself, keep him. Grossman's days are numbered as a Skin, and then you will have to find two QBs if you dump him and Kirk after 2013.
|
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
Did I miss something? Did we draft Cousins in 2009?
|
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
[quote]A - Exceeded Expectations
B - Met Expectations C - Simply made the roster D - Hung on for a while but eventually cut F - Waste of a pick[/quote] 1(13) -- Brian Orakpo - [B][COLOR="Green"]A-[/COLOR][/B]: Pro bowler still hasn't reached his potential. Still remains a force to be reckoned with and a staple on the defense. 3(80) -- Kevin Barnes - [B][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]C[/COLOR][/B]: Has made the team and provided some decent depth at corner but he hasn't proved being worth a 3rd round pick. 5(158) -- Cody Glenn - [B][COLOR="Red"]F[/COLOR][/B]: Caught on in with the Colts but was useless as a Redskin. 6(186) -- Robert Henson - [B][COLOR="DarkRed"]D+[/COLOR][/B]: Had the chance to be decent and showed some promise in the 2010 preseason but got derailed by an injury. 7(243) -- Marko Mitchell - [B][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]C+[/COLOR][/B]: Decent find in the 7th round and showed a lot of promise during the preseason but struggled to translate that into regular season success. 7(221) -- Eddie Williams - [B][COLOR="Red"]F[/COLOR][/B]: Had a cool highlight tape but ultimately amounted to nothing. [B][COLOR="Red"][COLOR="royalblue"]GPA - 2.21 - C Average[/COLOR][/COLOR][/B] [quote][I]1st Round - 7 Credits 7th Round - 1 Credit A - 4 Points, B - 3 Points, C - 2 points, D - 1 point, F - 0 points[/I][/quote] |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
Moral of the story is: don't trade second round picks for 34 yeal old Jason Taylor.
I vastly overrated this draft at the time it was made. That Cody Glenn pick...wasn't good. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
[quote=JoeRedskin;914326]Part of the reason I did this was to see just what should be expected, based on the percentages, from a pick from a certain round - how many make it out of camp, how many last more than a year, etc.
In rounds one and two, only 2 players are not still in the NFL. In round 3, 6 guys did not make it out of camp and another 2 aren't in the league. In the 4th, 5 didn't make it out of camp and 4 aren't in the league. in the 5th, 16 didn't make itou of camp and 7 more aren't in the league. in the 6th, 7 didn't make itou of camp and 10 more aren't in the league. in the 7th, 15 didn't make itou of camp and 4 more aren't in the league. So (based on 2009), from the 4th round on, you have about a 60% fail rate for picks by year 3. Sounds about right. Also, looking at the various starts/games listed, rounds 4-7 seem pretty similar - i.e. no appreciably higher games from round 4 versus round 5.[/quote] Nice thread , and post's ! I like Barnes , maybe he improves this year ? However , it would have been nice to pick a wr from Miss ( M.Wallace ) , Steelers # 84 (: |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
[quote=jamf;914362]If Orakpo was on GB, he would lead the league in sacks and could be in the running for defensive player of the year.
Matthews is good but benefits greatly from playing on a much better defense.[/quote] Green Bay's defense in 2011 was one of the five WORST defenses in the league. The objective fact is that after three years of NFL football, Matthews is a better OLB than is Orakpo. That may change over the course of their careers, but for now... This is NOT to diminish in any way the fact that Brian Orakpo is an excellent OLB and one that the Redskins cannot afford to lose. |
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
I think you guys are too kind. That draft looks like one great pick and a bunch of bench fodder, to me.
|
Re: Grade the Draft ... 2009 style
Wasn't the 2009 draft class Cerrato's final one? He hit on Orakpo and Barnes but missed on the rest.
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:50 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We have no official affiliation with the Washington Commanders or the NFL.