Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

I like this:

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBx2Y5HhplI&feature=youtu.be]Nick Hanauer - YouTube[/url]

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

I listened to half and the guy has no clue. He thinks business only hire when there is a need because of consumers driving them to hire. If I went by that I would have never hired more then one person in my office. I hire people to go out and drive in consumers not the other way around. He gives the example of owning only 3 cars but for the wealthy buy other things the cars.

Just one small example. I guess he does not count the thousands and thousands of jobs it takes to build and support a rich mans toys.
[IMG]http://www.charterworld.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Miami-International-Boat-Show-Marina-2010.jpg[/IMG]


The rich do not create all the jobs but they sure do create a punch of jobs.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

that's sorta tangential FD. he's saying that having a 15% tax rate on the top 1% isn't incentivizing them to go out and create any more jobs than if they were taxed at 30%. at a certain point you don't need any more boats or houses or whatnot. By taking that extra 15%, that money could be used to pay for worker education or the like, creating more knowledge workers who'd be making more money.

ie - the gi bill after WWII - for every $1 spent, $7 came back due to the massive increase in the number of lawyers, doctors, etc.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=That Guy;917905]that's sorta tangential FD. he's saying that having a 15% tax rate on the top 1% isn't incentivizing them to go out [B]and create any more jobs [/B]than if they were taxed at 30%. at a certain point you don't need any more boats or houses or whatnot. By taking that extra 15%, that money could be used to pay for worker education or the like, creating more knowledge workers who'd be making more money.

[B]ie - the gi bill after WWII - for every $1 spent, $7 came back due to the massive increase in the number of lawyers, doctors, etc.[/quote][/B]

So taking extra income and buying boats and homes does not create jobs anymore? The GI bill made it easier but your saying without that bill people would not have become Dr's and lawyers. Thats just not true. They would have used other means to get an education and have a successful life.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

BTW: The top 1% paid a Income tax rate of 24% and if I'm correct that does not include a 4% or 8% SS tax or State Taxes. Its BS when people say the rich don't pay a fair amount in taxes they pay more then their share in taxes. Now can they afford to pay more is what should be debated.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=firstdown;917992]BTW: The top 1% paid a Income tax rate of 24% and if I'm correct that does not include a 4% or 8% SS tax or State Taxes. Its BS when people say the rich don't pay a fair amount in taxes they pay more then their share in taxes. Now can they afford to pay more is what should be debated.[/quote]

False.

What their code is showing they SHOULD pay, and what they did pay is two different things. Stop going by the tax code, it's not right.

Warren Buffet has already been on record as showing he had a lower tax rate than his secretary. The top 1% are hiding their assets and money in off-shore accounts to avoid taxation.

Romney has even stated he is paying 14% tax rate.

Stop with your misinformation about how the 1% is paying a 24% tax rate. Until they close all the tax loopholes, your statement is invalid and most definitely false.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=NC_Skins;917999]False.

What their code is showing they SHOULD pay, and what they did pay is two different things. Stop going by the tax code, it's not right.

Warren Buffet has already been on record as showing he had a lower tax rate than his secretary. The top 1% are hiding their assets and money in off-shore accounts to avoid taxation.

Romney has even stated he is paying 14% tax rate.

[B]Stop with your misinformation about how the 1% is paying a 24% tax rate. Until they close all the tax loopholes, your statement is invalid and most definitely false.[/B][/quote]

I guess you need to eat those words. A 2 min. serch would show that I'm correct. Their tax rate satrt at 33% if I'm correct.

[B]Washington, DC, October 24, 2011[/B]--The income earned by the top 1% of Americans has declined for the second year in a row while their average tax rate has increased, according to a [URL="http://taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html"][COLOR=#0066cc]new Tax Foundation study[/COLOR][/URL]. The average federal tax rate for those reporting at least $343,927 in income [B]has increased from 22.5% in 2007 to 24.0% in 2009,[/B] while the average income for the top 1% has declined from $1.4 million to $1 million over the same period.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=firstdown;918014]I guess you need to eat those words. A 2 min. serch would show that I'm correct. Their tax rate satrt at 33% if I'm correct.

[B]Washington, DC, October 24, 2011[/B]--The income earned by the top 1% of Americans has declined for the second year in a row while their average tax rate has increased, according to a [URL="http://taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html"][COLOR=#0066cc]new Tax Foundation study[/COLOR][/URL]. The average federal tax rate for those reporting at least $343,927 in income [B]has increased from 22.5% in 2007 to 24.0% in 2009,[/B] while the average income for the top 1% has declined from $1.4 million to $1 million over the same period.[/quote]



Well, if those are the numbers than so be it and I stand corrected. However, the data skewed and not really representative of the 1% we speak of. We should be talking about the .025% really or even lesser. We are talking about guys banking millions yearly, not guys with a 350k salary. A salary of 350k puts you into the top 1% bracket.

When you look at it, they are lumping Romney who's pulling in 22 million income and lumping him in the same tax bracket as the guy making 350k. Not even remotely close and it's those other people that are pulling the true numbers down to make it look like they are paying 24%. They aren't. Romney and Buffet are prime examples of those guys NOT paying 24% tax rate, and I assure you those other guys making that type of coin aren't either.

People don't have issues with the man making 350k. They DO have issues with the man making millions (and billions) and not paying a fair tax %. Romney and Buffet (and many others) should be paying a LOT more.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=NC_Skins;918070]Well, if those are the numbers than so be it and I stand corrected. However, the data skewed and not really representative of the 1% we speak of. We should be talking about the .025% really or even lesser. We are talking about guys banking millions yearly, not guys with a 350k salary. A salary of 350k puts you into the top 1% bracket.

When you look at it, they are lumping Romney who's pulling in 22 million income and lumping him in the same tax bracket as the guy making 350k. Not even remotely close and it's those other people that are pulling the true numbers down to make it look like they are paying 24%. They aren't. Romney and Buffet are prime examples of those guys NOT paying 24% tax rate, and I assure you those other guys making that type of coin aren't either.

People don't have issues with the man making 350k. [B]They DO have issues with the man making millions (and billions) and not paying a fair tax %.[/B] Romney and Buffet (and many others) should be paying a LOT more.[/quote]

So the top 1% pay around 40% of all the federal taxes but you say that they are not paying a fair amount. What's fair? 60% of all federal taxes? The problem I have with your arguement is that you say they are not paying their fair share when the number show they are paying plenty in taxes. It would sound better if the left would say I know the top 1% allready pay a large % of the federal taxes but I feel they can afford to pay more but that deos not sell well with the the left. It has to be made into a class issue to sell the packeage top the non tax paying voters.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=firstdown;918085]So the top 1% pay around 40% of all the federal taxes but you say that they are not paying a fair amount. What's fair? 60% of all federal taxes? The problem I have with your arguement is that you say they are not paying their fair share when the number show they are paying plenty in taxes. It would sound better if the left would say I know the top 1% allready pay a large % of the federal taxes but I feel they can afford to pay more but that deos not sell well with the the left. It has to be made into a class issue to sell the packeage top the non tax paying voters.[/quote]

Over the past decade, the middle class people have been paying a higher % of their salary towards taxes, while guys like Romney and Buffet (and many others) have been abusing loopholes to pay a much smaller % than most of us. It's time to close those loop holes, and make them share the same burden we did.

I don't care if they are paying 95% of the taxes. What they aren't paying is the same percentage when it comes comes to middle class.

Again, lets stop using this 1% stat. This isn't about the guys making 350k who qualify as 1%, this is about the rich elite who are banking in millions and millions (even billions) and are evading taxes through loopholes. I want you to understand the difference.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

I'm with you on this, NC. Firstdown is relying heavily on numbers from a group backed and financed by Koch, Exxon Mobil, Earhart and other Ma and Pa businesses. <rolls_eyes>

I'm not fond of the NY Times but Krugman accused the Tax Foundation of "deliberate fraud" in connection with a report it issued concerning the American Jobs Act.

Point is that this is hardly an independent group as they claim.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

More information along the same lines:

[I][URL="http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175543/tomgram%3A_barbara_ehrenreich%2C_looting_the_lives_of_the_poor/"]Barbara Ehrenreich, Looting the Lives of the Poor [/URL][/I]


[I]Individually the poor are not too tempting to thieves, for obvious reasons. Mug a banker and you might score a wallet containing a month’s rent. Mug a janitor and you will be lucky to get away with bus fare to flee the crime scene. But as Business Week helpfully pointed out in 2007, the poor in aggregate provide a juicy target for anyone depraved enough to make a business of stealing from them.

The trick is to rob them in ways that are systematic, impersonal, and almost impossible to trace to individual perpetrators. Employers, for example, can simply program their computers to shave a few dollars off each paycheck, or they can require workers to show up 30 minutes or more before the time clock starts ticking.

Lenders, including major credit companies as well as payday lenders, have taken over the traditional role of the street-corner loan shark, charging the poor insanely high rates of interest. When supplemented with late fees (themselves subject to interest), the resulting effective interest rate can be as high as 600% a year, which is perfectly legal in many states.

It’s not just the private sector that’s preying on the poor. Local governments are discovering that they can partially make up for declining tax revenues through fines, fees, and other costs imposed on indigent defendants, often for crimes no more dastardly than driving with a suspended license. And if that seems like an inefficient way to make money, given the high cost of locking people up, a growing number of jurisdictions have taken to charging defendants for their court costs and even the price of occupying a jail cell.[/I]

I think I can see where this is going.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

without the gi bill there wouldn't have been as many doctors or lawyers. despite what you may think, getting a massive loan to go to harvard just didn't happen all that easily unlike today. less high income earners, less boats etc.

if it'd be so easy, tell me how millions of vets on army enlisted pay in 1940 would afford full college rides while supporting a family... you know, cause it shouldn't be a problem, like you said :P

and i wouldn't trust the tax foundation, check who's funding them and how their views magically match those of their donors... hmm.

and by the way, building one boat for one person doesn't creat thousands of long term jobs. having enough 80-100k earners could sustain an actual workforce much more feasibly.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

there isn't anyone on this board included in the top 1%, so why do we spend time defending them? i say let the rich pull their fair share, and even a bit more, if its going to help the cause. i guarantee they aren't going to miss it

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=dmek25;918208]there isn't anyone on this board included in the top 1%, so why do we spend time defending them? i say let the rich pull their fair share, and even a bit more, if its going to help the cause. i guarantee they aren't going to miss it[/quote]


Well considering that a person making 350k is technically in the top 1% it's not a far cry that somebody here is in the top 1%. However, it's not who we are addressing when we speak of the top 1%. We are speaking of guys that are raking in millions upon millions of dollars a year.(and billions) Guys like Romney would be included here. Bill Gates included. The doctor down the street making 500k....not included. Why they are all lumped in together is stupid, but it's done by our tax purposes so they can hide the true numbers the ultra rich are having to pay.

Do they lump a guy making 200k with the guy making 7k? Nope, so why would you lump a guy making 350k with a dude making 20 million? They do it so they can make the numbers average out to show the public peasants....LOOK WE ARE PAYING A HIGH NUMBER. When in reality, they aren't.

Proof?

[url=http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2012/01/27/super-rich-taxed-romney-rate-triple-says-bgov-barometer/CL5IexhVROfqKgJJYmnWFJ/story.html]Super-rich taxed at Romney&rsquo;s rate triple, says BGOV Barometer - Business - The Boston Globe[/url]



[quote]A Bloomberg review found that the Republican presidential candidate, whose tax return shows he paid an effective rate of less than 15 percent on his 2010 income, has that in common with an increasing number of the nation’s 400 top earners. Of that group, 131 paid less than 15 percent in 2008, compared with just 38 in 1999.[/quote]

[quote][B][U]Since 1996, the average effective tax rate for the top-earning 400 dropped by more than one-third, to 18.1 percent from 27.8 percent.[/U][/B] In 1996, only 10 of the ultra-rich group paid effective tax rates of less than 15 percent; 305 paid at least 25 percent[/quote]

[IMG]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1383/5169488255_f4b7802405.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9PbxCaWvtgw/TWK_kYU-scI/AAAAAAAABL8/jxtCLs46_1U/s1600/Top+marginal+rate.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=RedskinRat;918172]More information along the same lines:

[I][URL="http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175543/tomgram%3A_barbara_ehrenreich%2C_looting_the_lives_of_the_poor/"]Barbara Ehrenreich, Looting the Lives of the Poor [/URL][/I]


[I]Individually the poor are not too tempting to thieves, for obvious reasons. Mug a banker and you might score a wallet containing a month’s rent. Mug a janitor and you will be lucky to get away with bus fare to flee the crime scene. But as Business Week helpfully pointed out in 2007, the poor in aggregate provide a juicy target for anyone depraved enough to make a business of stealing from them.[/I]

[I]The trick is to rob them in ways that are systematic, impersonal, and almost impossible to trace to individual perpetrators. Employers, for example, can simply program their computers to shave a few dollars off each paycheck, or they can require workers to show up 30 minutes or more before the time clock starts ticking.[/I]

[I]Lenders, including major credit companies as well as payday lenders, have taken over the traditional role of the street-corner loan shark, charging the poor insanely high rates of interest. When supplemented with late fees (themselves subject to interest), the resulting effective interest rate can be as high as 600% a year, which is perfectly legal in many states.[/I]

[I]It’s not just the private sector that’s preying on the poor. Local governments are discovering that they can partially make up for declining tax revenues through fines, fees, and other costs imposed on indigent defendants, often for crimes no more dastardly than driving with a suspended license. And if that seems like an inefficient way to make money, given the high cost of locking people up, a growing number of jurisdictions have taken to charging defendants for their court costs and even the price of occupying a jail cell.[/I]

I think I can see where this is going.[/quote]

Yea, the poor make poor decisions and it cost them money. They always have (thats why they are poor in most cases) and always will but the left never wants to blame them (their voting block) for their bad decisions. I see it everday and you just want to shake them and tell them to stop doing stupid stuff. I'd say my bottom 20% of low income customers have more trafic violations then the other 80% of customers. Then they cannot understand why their insurance is so expensive.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

do you only sell people the ins. that they need? is it about making money, or being able to look at your self. most high rollers are ruthless people

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=firstdown;918245]Yea, the poor make poor decisions and it cost them money. [/quote]

...and when the rich make poor decisions, they make the poor pay for it.


Funny how that works. The poor (and middle class) have to pay for not only their mistakes, but the mistakes of the wealthy as well.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

that came off like the wealthy never make bad decisions....hmmm

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=dmek25;918258]that came off like the wealthy never make bad decisions....hmmm[/quote]

They have people to do that for them....

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI]George Carlin -"Who Really Controls America" - YouTube[/ame]

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=dmek25;918247]do you only sell people the ins. that they need? is it about making money, or being able to look at your self. [B]most high rollers are ruthless people[/B][/quote]

I sell insurance to people who don't even need it. Just this morning I sold a guy a homeowners policy and he does not even own a house.

I'm guessing in your book anyone making over a certain $ amount is a high roller?

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

any time you choose the almighty dollar over morals, you are ruthless. just most high rollers make their money by making ruthless decisions. i couldn't have done what Romney did to make a buck

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=NC_Skins;918251]...and when the rich make poor decisions, they make the poor pay for it.


Funny how that works. The poor (and middle class) have to pay for not only their mistakes, but the mistakes of the wealthy as well.[/quote]

What poor decisions did the rich make I'm paying for.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=dmek25;918345]any time you choose the almighty dollar over morals, you are ruthless. just most high rollers make their money by making ruthless decisions. i couldn't have done what Romney did to make a buck[/quote]

What did Romney do?

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=firstdown;918346]What poor decisions did the rich make I'm paying for.[/quote]

auto industry bailouts, bank bailouts, defense bailouts... all of these cause by bad ceo level leadership and greedy mortgage bankers that ended up costing us all a lot of money.

and it's silly that i'd pay a 24%+ effective tax rate while those (like letterman) who get free money from subsidized farming, and others that hide money in off shore accounts and use low taxed investment income etc pay 15-18% even though they make 5-100x more than me. fair share and all.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=firstdown;918245]Yea, the poor make poor decisions and it cost them money. They always have (thats why they are poor in most cases) and always will but the left never wants to blame them (their voting block) for their bad decisions. I see it everday and you just want to shake them and tell them to stop doing stupid stuff. [B]I'd say my bottom 20% of low income customers have more trafic violations then the other 80% of customers.[/B] Then they cannot understand why their insurance is so expensive.[/quote]

got proof? you still haven't told me how all those gi's would have managed even though you said it wouldn't be a problem either.

let's back up statements with facts instead of blind rhetoric please.

[QUOTE=RedskinRat;918294]They have people to do that for them....[/QUOTE]

Lolll

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

maximizing the value of acquired companies and the return to Bain's investors, not job creation, was the firm's fundamental goal
he downsized every company, with the idea of selling in the near future. jobs were a necessary evil, and cutting them was cost effective( at least short term) he basically made a living by firing people

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=That Guy;918362]got proof? you still haven't told me how all those gi's would have managed even though you said it wouldn't be a problem either.

let's back up statements with facts instead of blind rhetoric please.[/quote]

I've been in the insurance business for over twenty years and pulled thousands of driving records and its what I see.

What I said about the GI bill was that your saying without the bill they would not have gone to college and I say they would have found a way to attend without the GI bill. You think people need a gov. program I think people know how to make it on their own. The GI bill is not a very good example becuase it a benifit earned by serving.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=That Guy;918360]auto industry bailouts, bank bailouts, defense bailouts... all of these cause by bad ceo level leadership and greedy mortgage bankers that ended up costing us all a lot of money.

and it's silly that i'd pay a 24%+ effective tax rate while those (like letterman) who get free money from subsidized farming, and others that hide money in off shore accounts and use low taxed investment income etc pay 15-18% even though they make 5-100x more than me. fair share and all.[/quote]

I thought all that money was paid back with interest. LMAO

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=firstdown;918379]I thought all that money was paid back with interest. LMAO[/quote]

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/national/200904_CREDITCRISIS/recipients.html]Tracking the $700 Billion Bailout - The New York Times[/url]

[url=http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/main/summary]Bailout Scorecard | Eye on the Bailout | ProPublica[/url]




Name me another business in the real world that has been bailed out tax payers because it's rich entitled CEOs made poor ass decisions so they could bank a buck or two?

Like I said, when rich people make bad decisions, the poor people pay for them as well as their own.


Just like you. If you made horrible decisions at your work, would you eat the costs or would you pass them on? My guess is you'd lay off people, cut your costs to make up for that stupid decision. Again, the poor people paying for the mistakes of the upper echelon. (not claiming you are such, just using it as an example)

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=NC_Skins;918383][URL="http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/national/200904_CREDITCRISIS/recipients.html"]Tracking the $700 Billion Bailout - The New York Times[/URL]

[URL="http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/main/summary"]Bailout Scorecard | Eye on the Bailout | ProPublica[/URL]




Name me another business in the real world that has been bailed out tax payers because it's rich entitled CEOs made poor ass decisions so they could bank a buck or two?

Like I said, when rich people make bad decisions, the poor people pay for them as well as their own.


Just like you. If you made horrible decisions at your work, would you eat the costs or would you pass them on? My guess is you'd lay off people, cut your costs to make up for that[B] stupid decision[/B]. Again, the poor people paying for the mistakes of the upper echelon. (not claiming you are such, just using it as an example)[/quote

Its only a stupid decision if you do not learn from your mistake.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=firstdown;918415]Its only a stupid decision if you do not learn from your mistake.[/quote]


[IMG]http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs6/1922026_o.gif[/IMG]


Dodging like a mofo. Since you didn't disagree with that assessment that the poor people pay for the rich people's mistakes, that kind of nullifies your gripe about poor people.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=NC_Skins;918457][IMG]http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs6/1922026_o.gif[/IMG]


Dodging like a mofo. Since you didn't disagree with that assessment that the poor people pay for the rich people's mistakes, that kind of nullifies your gripe about poor people.[/quote]


Well 50% of Americans (mainly the poor) don't pay federal taxes so how did they help bail out the rich. I don't have a gripe with the poor I was just stating the truth.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

this is silly, if you can get some facts, great, but i'm not going to debate your unsupported opinions if you feel like saying your right is good enough to prove your point on its own.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=firstdown;918245] I'd say my bottom 20% of low income customers have more trafic violations then the other 80% of customers. [/quote]

Question, how exactly do you know what they make? My insurance agent or company has no clue what I make, nor is it any of their business. So how are you making claims like this to begin with?


[quote=firstdown;918534]Well 50% of Americans (mainly the poor) don't pay federal taxes so how did they help bail out the rich. I don't have a gripe with the poor I was just stating the truth.[/quote]

I hate to break the bad news to you bro, but the middle class are poor now. That's right. The gap between the ultra rich and the middle class opened up tremendously over the past 20 years due in part to crooked politicians taking bribes(aka..campaign donations). Even so, got any numbers to support that statement?

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=NC_Skins;918616[B]]Question, how exactly do you know what they make?[/B] [B]My insurance agent[/B] or company has no clue what I make, [B]nor is it any of their business[/B]. So how are you making claims like this to begin with?




[B]I hate to break the bad news to you bro, but the middle class are poor now. [/B]That's right. The gap between the ultra rich and the middle class opened up tremendously over the past 20 years due in part to crooked politicians taking bribes(aka..campaign donations). Even so, got any numbers to support that statement?[/quote]

A good insurance agent knows his clients and what types of protection they need to protect their assets and personal belongings. Anyone can write a auto or home owners policy but understanding clients other needs take asking questions. Some of my customers don't want to take a review but 90% do so I know what they make for a living.

As far as the middle class now the poor that's just plan old stupid. I'm middle class and I'm far from being poor. A simple search you will find thounsands of articles talking about the 47% that pay no taxes. So I here is a clip from CNN which is no right wing news outlet.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Most people think they pay too much to Uncle Sam, but for some people it simply is not true.
In 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.
Some in that group will even get additional money from the government because they qualify for refundable tax breaks.
The ranks of those whose major federal tax burdens net out at zero -- or less -- is on the rise. The center's original 2009 estimate was 38%. That was before enactment in February of the $787 billion economic recovery package, which included a host of new or expanded tax breaks.

[URL="http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/taxes/who_pays_taxes/index.htm"]47% of households owe no tax - and their ranks are growing - Sep. 30, 2009[/URL]

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=firstdown;918629]As far as the middle class now the poor that's just plan old stupid. I'm middle class and I'm far from being poor. A simple search you will find thounsands of articles talking about the 47% that pay no taxes. So I here is a clip from CNN which is no right wing news outlet.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Most people think they pay too much to Uncle Sam, but for some people it simply is not true.
In 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.
Some in that group will even get additional money from the government because they qualify for refundable tax breaks.
The ranks of those whose major federal tax burdens net out at zero -- or less -- is on the rise. The center's original 2009 estimate was 38%. That was before enactment in February of the $787 billion economic recovery package, which included a host of new or expanded tax breaks.

[URL="http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/taxes/who_pays_taxes/index.htm"]47% of households owe no tax - and their ranks are growing - Sep. 30, 2009[/URL][/quote]


1) That article was 3 years ago.
2) They are referring to households. (aka..married couples and families)

47% of the households making less than 50K have 0 liability. That's a far different claim than saying 50% of the American people aren't paying federal taxes.


Just curious, but how do you suggest a family of four or five to live off below 50K per year?

Food, rent, car, insurance, clothes, school supplies, college tuition, retirement, gas,...and so on and so on.

Re: Nick Hanauer - Job Creator Myth
 

[quote=NC_Skins;918651]1) That article was 3 years ago.
2) They are referring to households. (aka..married couples and families)

47% of the households making less than 50K have 0 liability. That's a far different claim than saying 50% of the American people aren't paying federal taxes.


[B]Just curious, but how do you suggest a family of four or five to live off below 50K per year?[/B]

Food, rent, car, insurance, clothes, school supplies, college tuition, retirement, gas,...and so on and so on.[/quote]

Sorry the number is still the same in 2011.

[URL="http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/federal-taxes-households.cfm"]TPC Tax Topics | Who Doesn't Pay Federal Taxes?[/URL]


As far as living off 50K per year that would not be very hard in our area. In the 80's when I was a single father trying to get my career started I made maybe $13,000 per year and made ends meet.