NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8006771/nfl-talks-officials-break-sources-say]NFL's talks with officials break off, sources say - ESPN[/url]

I suspect this will get resolved by the time the season rolls around

Re: NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

you talk about something that will really screw up a game? they need to be full time....no more excuses

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Oh how will we manage?! To think, they might have to hire replacements for the main reason we watch football! Won't someone think of Eddie "Guns" Hoculi?!

Re: NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

[quote=dmek25;919825]you talk about something that will really screw up a game? they need to be full time....no more excuses[/quote]

Why do they need to be full time? Can you practice what they do? I guess they could target pratice throwing the flag so not to hit someone in the eye, I just don't see how going full time would change anything.

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[quote=firstdown;919857]Why do they need to be full time? Can you practice what they do? I guess they could target pratice throwing the flag so not to hit someone in the eye, I just don't see how going full time would change anything.[/quote]

I don't understand the logic of saying full-time wouldn't help anything. What do you mean they can't practice. I can think of several things that would help right off the bat:

All refs would be trained to see penalties the same way. For example: Through computer videos you can let them see 4 plays, 3 are PI, one is not, they select which one isn't.

Officials Teams could be varied in the off season, and evaluated and adjusted so that the strengths and weaknesses are better understood.

Officials would be able to watch OTA's and other team based functions providing feedback and also more on field experience for the officials.

Surely the more they see actual and video examples the better they would get.

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;919863]I don't understand the logic of saying full-time wouldn't help anything. What do you mean they can't practice. I can think of several things that would help right off the bat:

All refs would be trained to see penalties the same way. For example: Through computer videos you can let them see 4 plays, 3 are PI, one is not, they select which one isn't.

Officials Teams could be varied in the off season, and evaluated and adjusted so that the strengths and weaknesses are better understood.

Officials would be able to watch OTA's and other team based functions providing feedback and also more on field experience for the officials.

Surely the more they see actual and video examples the better they would get.[/quote]

This. More time for training so it's universally understood what constitutes a penalty can only make the refs better. Think about all the film they could watch, all of the examples they could study, that could help them judge better in real time. I would definitely support refs working full time for the NFL. Pretty sure the NFL wouldn't though because paying the refs would take more money out of their profits, with no forseeable way to make up the difference.

Re: NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

Since we always win the Super Bowl in strike seasons, does that include seasons when the refs strike?

Re: NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

Football players used to get off-season jobs until pay became enough that they could focus on being better players by training and/or practicing/playing year round. These refs surely make enough money to be able to focus on one job. Considering the importance of said job just in dollars it is silly to think they are part time.

How many multi-billion dollar companies hire part time workers who directly affect the products they sell? Hell the refs are as much part of the product as the players in a sense.

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[quote=firstdown;919857]Why do they need to be full time? Can you practice what they do? I guess they could target pratice throwing the flag so not to hit someone in the eye, I just don't see how going full time would change anything.[/quote]
so if i came to you and said i think your job is only needed 6 months a year, but in those 6 months you better not make any mistakes, how would you feel/do?

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The refs do a bad job imo. Too flag happy. Maybe the replacements will do a better job.

Re: NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;919863]I don't understand the logic of saying full-time wouldn't help anything. What do you mean they can't practice. I can think of several things that would help right off the bat:

All refs would be trained to see penalties the same way. For example: Through computer videos you can let them see 4 plays, 3 are PI, one is not, they select which one isn't.

Officials Teams could be varied in the off season, and evaluated and adjusted so that the strengths and weaknesses are better understood.

Officials would be able to watch OTA's and other team based functions providing feedback and also more on field experience for the officials.

Surely the more they see actual and video examples the better they would get.[/quote]

Well said.

I think there are a lot of potential positives having them at "full time". It would benefit their own knowledge base, tactics, techniques and procedures; and I think NFL teams would surely benefit from having refs present during on-the-field training before the season.

Didn't we have replacement refs a few years back?

Re: NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

[quote=FRPLG;919883]Football players used to get off-season jobs until pay became enough that they could focus on being better players by training and/or practicing/playing year round. These refs surely make enough money to be able to focus on one job. Considering the importance of said job just in dollars it is silly to think they are part time.

How many multi-billion dollar companies hire part time workers who directly affect the products they sell? Hell the refs are as much part of the product as the players in a sense.[/quote]

A lot of board of directors are not full time employess of the corporation and just come in to give advise and help with disputes when needed. So it is very common.

Re: NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

[quote=dmek25;919884]so if i came to you and said i think your job is only needed 6 months a year, but in those 6 months you better not make any mistakes, how would you feel/do?[/quote]

I'd say hell yea and take a 6 month vacation. No one tells them to not make mistake. Its a given that mistakes will happen with full or partime refs. What other sports have full time refs that don't still make mistakes? I don't think the Refs are the problem the stupid rules like you cannot hit the QB's head even if its a little tap is the problem with the game.

Re: NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

[quote=firstdown;919908]I'd say hell yea and take a 6 month vacation. No one tells them to not make mistake. Its a given that mistakes will happen with full or partime refs. What other sports have full time refs that don't still make mistakes? I don't think the Refs are the problem the stupid rules like you cannot hit the QB's head even if its a little tap is the problem with the game.[/quote]Agreed about the refs not being the problem. Goodell and the league have to go overboard on the helmet hits, or the league could get overwhelmed by legitimate lawsuits. I do think the officiating can be improved, though. And ought to be fairer to the officials.

I'd love to see the league support a cadre of professional officials. From the head referee to the replay officials. With no more vacation than the players get, with an offseason of tape and review. We couldn't eliminate mistakes from the officials, any more than the players. But we can at least make the officiating more consistent with more offseason training.

And pay the officials accordingly. $25K-$70K to referee a season involving multi-millionaire players in a sport worth billions, is ridiculous, IMO. Pay officials six figures at least.

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i'm scared

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[quote=hooskins;919899]Didn't we have replacement refs a few years back?[/quote]The start of the 2001 season. Maybe other times.

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Refer to the sig.

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[quote=firstdown;919906]A lot of board of directors are not full time employess of the corporation and just come in to give advise and help with disputes when needed. So it is very common.[/quote]

A Board director does not equal a referee. Try again.

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[quote=skinsfan69;919886]The refs do a bad job imo. Too flag happy. Maybe the replacements will do a better job.[/quote]

that's the point

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[quote=skinsfan69;919886]The refs do a bad job imo. Too flag happy. Maybe the replacements will do a better job.[/quote]

Yeah the backup official who don't have anything better to do (meaning they don't have a job as a ref currently) will be better.

Re: NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

[quote=FRPLG;919977]Yeah the backup official who don't have anything better to do (meaning they don't have a job as a ref currently) will be better.[/quote]

I guess I just want less flags thrown. It's become a flag happy league and the games are becoming way too long. Not sure if replacing the old guys will improve things but it can't be any worse.

Re: NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

[quote=skinsfan69;919987]I guess I just want less flags thrown. It's become a flag happy league and the games are becoming way too long. Not sure if replacing the old guys will improve things but it can't be any worse.[/quote]

It can definitely be worse. The solution to the problem you mention is to reform veteran refs, not to throw a bunch of inexperienced folks into the fray.

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[quote=Lotus;919991]It can definitely be worse. The solution to the problem you mention is to reform veteran refs, not to throw a bunch of inexperienced folks into the fray.[/quote]

Agreed. We need professionals and we need people who have demonstrated their impartiality.

I wouldn't want me reffing a game between the Skins and Cow-whores.... Ok, I would but it would be pretty lopsided and obvious after I've ejected 51 of the team in blue and white.

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[quote=FRPLG;919958]A Board director does not equal a referee. Try again.[/quote]

This is what you said:

How many multi-billion dollar companies hire part time workers who directly affect the products they sell?

In alot of cases the board of directors have a lot of power and are part time employees. I was just answering your question.

[QUOTE=HailGreen28;919934]The start of the 2001 season. Maybe other times.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. I don't recall noticing a difference in the quality of reffing or hearing about it. But I was much younger then too.

Re: NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

[quote=skinsfan69;919987]I guess I just want less flags thrown. It's become a flag happy league and the games are becoming way too long. Not sure if replacing the old guys will improve things but it can't be any worse.[/quote]

It's flag happy for a variety of reasons like:

- they keep adding rules
- the players are more athletic and capable than ever resulting in virtual parity on every play meaning players continue to seek advantages
- there is some weird cultural need to "perfect" the game that seemingly everyone supports including the league, players coaches and fans

None of this is because the refs as a whole are bad.

The replacement refs will be required to call the game similarly...they'll just not be as good at it. Could mean even MORE flags.

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[quote=firstdown;920005]This is what you said:

How many multi-billion dollar companies hire part time workers who directly affect the products they sell?

In alot of cases the board of directors have a lot of power and are part time employees. I was just answering your question.[/quote]

Thought experiment: how many board of directors actually directly effect the products their companies sell?

Re: NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

There was an average of about 17 flags per game in 2005...and 15 in 2011, per my recollection

Re: NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

[quote=skinsfan69;919987]I guess I just want less flags thrown. It's become a flag happy league and the games are becoming way too long. Not sure if replacing the old guys will improve things but it can't be any worse.[/quote]

You say that now until the Redskins get screwed over by being fouled and the refs do not call it.
Orakpo gets held a half dozen times during a game and it does not get called. I think the culture in the NFL of cheating just enough so you do not get called for it needs to change before you start telling refs not to call certain fouls. Then the refs will not have to throw so many flags.

Like in soccer if the foul merits it they get yellow carded. After two yellows in one game you get kicked out of that game and suspended for another game.
That would stop the cheating and subsequent flags quickly.

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[quote=SmootSmack;920013]There was an average of about 17 flags per game in 2005...and 15 in 2011, per my recollection[/quote]

17 to 15 flags per game seems like alot of flags. The NFL probably gives a bonus to the refs who throw the most flags so they can extend the game and sell more advertisement.

Re: NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

[quote=Defensewins;920015]You say that now until the Redskins get screwed over by being fouled and the refs do not call it.
Orakpo gets held a half dozen times during a game and it does not get called. I think the culture in the NFL of cheating just enough so you do not get called for it needs to change before you start telling refs not to call certain fouls. Then the refs will not have to throw so many flags.

Like in soccer if the foul merits it they get yellow carded. After two yellows in one game you get kicked out of that game and suspended for another game.
That would stop the cheating and subsequent flags quickly.[/quote]

I think the bad calls even out most of the time.

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[quote=SmootSmack;920013]There was an average of about 17 flags per game in 2005...and 15 in 2011, per my recollection[/quote]

I wonder what the average was in the 90's and 80's.

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[quote=firstdown;920017]17 to 15 flags per game seems like alot of flags. The NFL probably gives a bonus to the refs who throw the most flags so they can extend the game and sell more advertisement.[/quote]

Wouldn't surprise me at all. It seems like all the stopping and starting of the games has gotten worse over the years. W/ the slow instant re-play process, numerous flags being thrown. One thing I'd like them to do is get rid of the 2 minute warning. Really no need for it at all.

Re: NFL Prepared to Hire Replacement Refs
 

[quote=skinsfan69;920039]Wouldn't surprise me at all. It seems like all the stopping and starting of the games has gotten worse over the years. W/ the slow instant re-play process, numerous flags being thrown. One thing I'd like them to do is get rid of the 2 minute warning. Really no need for it at all.[/quote]

I have to agree it seems like they are starting and stopping the game much more then in the past.

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[quote=skinsfan69;920038]I wonder what the average was in the 90's and 80's.[/quote]

I don't know. I do know it steadily went up the first few years of the 2000s and has basically plateaued (if not gone down) during the final 5-6 years

Replays have slowed the game down for sure. Average length of MNF last year was about 5-6 minutes longer than the previous year.

But referees do not get any sort of bonus for throwing more flags

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They start and stop the game more because there is now more of an emphasis on getting things "right". Rules have gotten more complex and the game is faster. It is harder now than ever to ref the game so instead of letting mistakes simply wash out they want the officials to take their time and act as a team so they can conceivably get more calls right. Hence more conversations and such.

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I could be in the small majority but i still feel that certain penalties need some kind of review. Now i'm not saying every single flag has a review option, but in certain situations, like pass interference when it is very questionable. Those kind of calls change the game if done wrong. Also in situations where they call roughing the passer when really nothing was done to the QB other than brushing up against him or lightly touching him...

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I wonder if this will lead to any further investigating of labor issues, ie; the Redskins and Cowboys punishments?

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/21/nfl-referees-association-files-unfair-labor-practice-charge-against-nfl/]NFL Referees Association files unfair labor practice charge against NFL | ProFootballTalk[/url]

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Is it interesting enough that the NFL had two teams file grievances about punishments, then the NFLPA file collusion claim against the NFL, now the NFLRA has filed unfair labor practices? Oh and I forgot the whole concussion lawsuit.

To me if it walks like a duck, acts like a duck, and quacks like a duck..... it's a duck. Whatever the NFL has done or recently done their making waves and pissing people off. They need to back off themselves and make some changes to their policy and maybe go back to how they used to handle their business. I understand their idea of trying to make it a better NFL and safer NFL but the commish is ruining the game with all the little snap decisions their making lately.