Lets make a deal
 

What kind of deal would you like the Redskins to get for L.C? What do you expect the deal to be right now, releasing him, or trading him is a financial constraint to the Skins. Everything is a lose- Lose situation. So therefore let play 'lets make a deal' and come up with some sugestions on how to deal with this problem.

I never believed in something for nothing. Releasing Coles to me would just be absurd. He is a great player, who has value. So the skins are in the driver seat so, it may be the seat of a hoptie but its a seat non the less.

If I was the GM I would try one of these two trades. First I'd try a LC for Darren Howard and our 2nd rounder back. I'd offer nothing more, nothing less if they didn't accept the trade thats fine I'd move on. We have a good trade relationship with the saints, so it might work. Horn is getting older and stallworth seems to be a bust.

Another Idea would be a trade for boldin out of Arizona. The cardinals would get they're deep threat in Coles, and we would get our tough guy in Boldin. Boldin was injured last season so I hoped that brought down his trade value.
Bye Coles :Flush: Hello Boldin :biggthump

I don't know what would happen, knowing snyder we may still be in the picture for the Moss trade now...

Re: Lets make a deal
 

It seems that Coles is pushing to become a free agent, I don't believe we would actually aquire any type of deal other than just letting him go. Maybe the only deal I see, is telling his agent...we'll let Coles be a free agent and go to any team of his choosing so as long as he makes it easier on us, salary cap wise. Otherwise, I'm thinking about the only way out would be for him to retire.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

id trade coles for a different position, cuz i think we could get a better player from another position. if we trader WR for WR, their skills prolly wouldnt match up well since coles has a bad toe and we are desperate. id trade him for DE abraham or a good DT/CB, maybe even a safety.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

As someone else has already stated in another thread, it was leaked that the Redskins were going to release Coles anyway. You don't EVER give away one of your players for a guy who from all indications was already expected to be released. That doesn't even take into account the reports of a nagging toe injury.

Just like Wilber Marshall of long ago, and the Champ Bailey fiasco just recently, the Skins are going to have another one broken off in the ass yet again -- getting nothing in return for great players that get pryed away.

Instead of all these free agents, why don't we try to sign Scott Peoli of the Patriots? Maybe that way we can stop the endless train of boneheaded, buffoon-like personnel decisions.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

[QUOTE=diehardskin2982]What kind of deal would you like the Redskins to get for L.C? What do you expect the deal to be right now, releasing him, or trading him is a financial constraint to the Skins. Everything is a lose- Lose situation. So therefore let play 'lets make a deal' and come up with some sugestions on how to deal with this problem.

I never believed in something for nothing. Releasing Coles to me would just be absurd. He is a great player, who has value. So the skins are in the driver seat so, it may be the seat of a hoptie but its a seat non the less.

If I was the GM I would try one of these two trades. First I'd try a LC for Darren Howard and our 2nd rounder back. I'd offer nothing more, nothing less if they didn't accept the trade thats fine I'd move on. We have a good trade relationship with the saints, so it might work. Horn is getting older and stallworth seems to be a bust.

Another Idea would be a trade for boldin out of Arizona. The cardinals would get they're deep threat in Coles, and we would get our tough guy in Boldin. Boldin was injured last season so I hoped that brought down his trade value.
Bye Coles :Flush: Hello Boldin :biggthump

I don't know what would happen, knowing snyder we may still be in the picture for the Moss trade now...[/QUOTE]


I don't think Coles is a great player. He had one great season in NY but that was 3 years ago and one bad toe injury ago. I would be shocked if the skins got more than a #2 for him, but it's more like a #3. Most teams will probably wait until he is a free agent and get him for free. Why would anyone want to trade draft picks or players for someone who is most likely to be released.

The Abraham trade is ludicrous also. The Jets would have to be insane to trade a premeir DE for a damaged WR. ABrahams value is somewhere between one and two #1 picks. Can anyone on this board make a case for LC having that sort of value?

I think the best we can do is get him to give back some money and just release him.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

At this point if we just get the $5M in cap relief for his bonus I'd be happy. If we don't have to bite the full bullet for his release I'll take that as a small victory.

At this point I think it's best to just resolve this situation as quickly as possible.

If we can pull the trigger on a trade I'd be very surprised.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

To start things off, under no circumstances would I let Coles walk. We must get something for him. This means that he will have to convert a large portion of his bonus into base salary, and work out an agreement with the other team on a new contract. If he does not agree to giving up his bonus along with being traded, then we must keep him. We cannot absorb a $9M cap hit because Coles is unsatisfied with his 90 receptions.

The odds of us getting a great deal for him are slim, but I think we would do well to try and fill a void by either getting a solid player at a needed position or getting a draft pick (likely a 2nd rounder.) All of this speculation about getting Abraham is nonsense. Abraham's value outweighs Coles' by a longshot. In the best case scenario, I see us getting a 2nd rounder so that we can draft an interior lineman. That gets rid of a problem player and helps to fill one of our main needs.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

I would be thrilled to just get the 5 million back and move on. Look at it this way, in today's NFL salary cap era 5 million in cap space is like getting a player in return. With an additional 5 million in cap space they can sign a player equal to Coles in value. Actually, with 5 million in cap space you can sign almost any player in the league and fit it in to the cap. We don't need controversy this offseason. The player doesn't want to be here so get rid of him and move on. No one player on this team is more important than the whole. Gibbs is building an organization for the long haul and he has no intentions of building it with people that don't want to be part of it.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

And as far as the likelyhood of the trade goes...do you see any teams lining up to trade for Mushin Muhamed right now? Nope, becasue they know that Carolina is going to cut him. Trading Coles is nonsense...the Redskins are going to look into it for sure becasue they would be stupid to at least not explore every avenue. But in the end they will find cool trade waters and come to the realization that they need to just cut ties with LC and move on...

Re: Lets make a deal
 

Well, it's not like we're getting $5M in cap space, we're just getting $5M taken off his cap hit. We won't be getting off scott free, but the hit won't be as severe.

Instead of a $9M cap hit, we might be looking at $3-4.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

[QUOTE=celts32]And as far as the likelyhood of the trade goes...do you see any teams lining up to trade for Mushin Muhamed right now? Nope, becasue they know that Carolina is going to cut him. Trading Coles is nonsense...the Redskins are going to look into it for sure becasue they would be stupid to at least not explore every avenue. But in the end they will find cool trade waters and come to the realization that they need to just cut ties with LC and move on...[/QUOTE]

Muhammad is due a very large bonus, $10 or $12 mill I believe, so you're right, unless the Panthers want to eat that they'll more than likely end up cutting him.

No use in trading for a guy you know is going to hit the open market eventually. If we get anything for Gardner and Coles we'll be extremely lucky.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

Maybe I don't understand this fully, but if he gives back 5 million we take the other 3 against our cap this year like you said but we then have a 35 million dollar player off our books after this season. So maybe they don't get a full 5 million to use right now, but they are wiping off a big contract for only a 3 million dollar dead money charge. This should help the cap situation in the future when experts were speculating cap problems for the Redskins.

Basically, what i am trying to say is they have to get helped capwise by this at some point assuming he gives money back.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

I may be in the minority, because I know I am among many LC fans on this site. However, I think the LC signing was a mistake to begin with so if they can get out of it for only a 3-4 million dollar hit this year I will be okay with that. I don't really want to rehash the same old argument, but I just don't think LC is a #1 NFL WR. And I have just agreed to disagree with the Warpath LC fans...

Re: Lets make a deal
 

First, this was a shocker to everyone we weren't going to release coles until yesterday he was even mentioned as trade talk or as a cut, he was suppose to help ramsey mature as the #1 reciever. Secondly coles is good, he had a good year in NY and a two good years with us. Although he didn't score as much he led in receptions with a career high 90. That is why most in the media and the NFL are shocked by this occurance. Thirdly, not by any surcumstance do we HAVE TO LET COLES GO. He wants to leave, so did Ramsey when Brunnel was first brought in. So if it's in the skins best interest well release him, otherwise tuff luck bitch you still gota play for us. This is not a career where u get go to often he's still under contract!

Now with that said it not like we couldn't package a deal with both Coles and Gardner for someone big like Moss or Abraham. Open ur minds people we have NFL caliber stars, not high school scrubs!

Re: Lets make a deal
 

Cap Situation:

Scenario 1: If Coles is on our team in 2005, his cap hit in 2005 will be 3.357 million.

Scenario 2: If Coles is cut or traded (makes no difference which) before March 1, and he doesn't give back any of his bonus, his cap hit in 2005 will be 9.28 million.

Scenario 3: If Coles is cut or traded (makes no difference which) before March 1, and he gives back $5 million of his bonus, his cap hit in 2005 will be 4.285 million.

And if he is cut or traded before March 1, he will be totally cleared from our cap in 2006 and beyond.

I'm with Matty, I'd be happy with scenario 3, damage is minimal. I'm a realist, not many teams are in cap shape to take on a guy like Coles. The Cowboys are, but if we are talking a trade, there's no way we're sending him there. I think Coles is worth a first rounder as a player, he had 2 straight 1200 yard seasons, and last year he had 90 catches. He works hard and keeps a low profile during the season. Even though he's worth a lot talent-wise, I'd be surprised if we can get more than a 2nd rounder. A 3rd rounder is more realistic. But to tell you the truth, in today's NFL, we should be happy with just not getting hosed by a major cap hit. That is if you want to be a realist.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

And by the way, if he doesn't give back any of his bonus, I'd keep him and say tough shit, play out your contract. The Skins can't afford a 9.28 million hit this year.

Incidentally, you know what, I'll bet Coles would actually be glad he ended up staying if it worked out that way. Ramsey's QB rating was in the 80s in games he started, compared to Brunell's 63. The offense began to move the ball last year, and it can only get better from here as the coaches find the right way to use Portis, mix in Betts, lean on Cooley in the middle, and find ways to go deep which they've pledged to do.

I know it's LC's career and his call to make, but I think it's a mistake and doesn't make any rational sense.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

Schneed - how many times DURING the year did they pledge to go deep, or even worse say they DID go deep.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

[QUOTE=DCopper04]To start things off, under no circumstances would I let Coles walk. We must get something for him. This means that he will have to convert a large portion of his bonus into base salary, and work out an agreement with the other team on a new contract. If he does not agree to giving up his bonus along with being traded, then we must keep him. We cannot absorb a $9M cap hit because Coles is unsatisfied with his 90 receptions.

The odds of us getting a great deal for him are slim, but I think we would do well to try and fill a void by either getting a solid player at a needed position or getting a draft pick (likely a 2nd rounder.) All of this speculation about getting Abraham is nonsense. Abraham's value outweighs Coles' by a longshot. In the best case scenario, I see us getting a 2nd rounder so that we can draft an interior lineman. That gets rid of a problem player and helps to fill one of our main needs.[/QUOTE]


Agreed, if we can't bring back some quality I keep him, if he really want's out he will do whatever he has to to make sure that his departure is cap friendly, as well as player or draft pick friendly for us, if he's unwilling to do so then he doesn't want out bad enough, Coles is not a problem player like a Moss and so on, I believe he would still conduct himself like a professional even if he end's up staying on with us.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

I like what the washington times reported about a trade involviing L.C. for abraham and possibly throw morton in to sweeten the deal. Then aquire derek mason and draft hopefully edwards.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

Well - if we keep him I think he'll play. Remember how bad Ty Law wanted out of NE?

Re: Lets make a deal
 

In one sense, the Skins are totally in the drivers' seat. Unless they do something with LC - release him or trade him - he is under contract with the Skins and there's not a whole lot he can do about that and still get paid. So they can keep him of they want to - - sort of like in indentured servitude.

On the other hand, they have a lot of money and cap room invested in him and if he REALLY doesn't want to be here, they would be nuts to try to force him to do that.

So let's say I'm the GM for the Raiders and I need a WR who can get deep because all I want to do is play vertical pass offense. I'd love to have LC on my team because I'll convince him to shoot his foot with cortisone once a month and when his foot is sound he can fly. However, I know there is some "trouble in paradise" back there in DC between LC and the "organization". So when I call back to the Skins organization and somebody tells me that all you'll take for LC is a first round pick this year and a player, I'll tell you to break off another dildo in your ass. Here's my counter offer: I'll take your reluctant warrior off your hands and if he gives you back $2M of his signing bonus to make your cap hit less onerous, I'll reimburse him that amount of money AND I'll give you a fourth round pick next year. Why that pick? Well TO was a guy who wanted out of SF and Philly got him for a 2nd round pick and LC is good but he ain't no TO. Take it or leave it, Danny Boy. You can get a little cap room and a draft pick next year - or you can keep LC or you can release him and I'll sign him in a heartbeat. Your move...

Or the Skins can keep a player here who does not want to be here and pay him a LOT of money for the rest of his contract...

If I'm the Jets' GM, I would not pay a nickel of that outrageous signing bonus that the Skins paid to LC with the sole intent of making it impossible for the Jets to resign him. AND if the Skins want Abraham - who I just put my franchise tag on - you can have Abraham for Coles PLUS your first round pick this year. Deal with it.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

Daseal, going deep to me isn't the end-all be-all of this situation. If Coles' only motivation in all this is that he be used as a deep threat, then that's pathetic and I say good riddance. But I think it's more than that, and my point was just that the Skins offense was improving at the end of last year. And given how good the D was, I think things are looking up for them next season. If Coles is upset because he thinks the team is destined to lose, then ok I can understand wanting to leave (though I'd disagree with that). But if he just wants out because he wants to be a deep threat, and winning or losing isn't the issue, then good riddance, I'm glad he's leaving.

If the unhappiness doesn't have to do with wins and losses, cry me a f-ing river and take a hike. Bottom line is you play to win, not for a certain number of TD catches.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

Well said once again, Schneed10

Re: Lets make a deal
 

I think he feels going deep can aleviate that problem some. The win/loss column would be effected by the deep ball a lot. Gives us the chance for a game-breaking play, it makes teams respect that ball, and it gives Clinton Portis more room and the occassional 1v1 matchup on a LB or DB that he is often able to exploit. He's not happy with the offense as a whole, and the deep ball is part of that. That's my guess.

We'll never truely know. Im just ready for the season to start.

Re: Lets make a deal
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]In one sense, the Skins are totally in the drivers' seat. Unless they do something with LC - release him or trade him - he is under contract with the Skins and there's not a whole lot he can do about that and still get paid. So they can keep him of they want to - - sort of like in indentured servitude.

On the other hand, they have a lot of money and cap room invested in him and if he REALLY doesn't want to be here, they would be nuts to try to force him to do that.

So let's say I'm the GM for the Raiders and I need a WR who can get deep because all I want to do is play vertical pass offense. I'd love to have LC on my team because I'll convince him to shoot his foot with cortisone once a month and when his foot is sound he can fly. However, I know there is some "trouble in paradise" back there in DC between LC and the "organization". So when I call back to the Skins organization and somebody tells me that all you'll take for LC is a first round pick this year and a player, I'll tell you to break off another dildo in your ass. Here's my counter offer: I'll take your reluctant warrior off your hands and if he gives you back $2M of his signing bonus to make your cap hit less onerous, I'll reimburse him that amount of money AND I'll give you a fourth round pick next year. Why that pick? Well TO was a guy who wanted out of SF and Philly got him for a 2nd round pick and LC is good but he ain't no TO. Take it or leave it, Danny Boy. You can get a little cap room and a draft pick next year - or you can keep LC or you can release him and I'll sign him in a heartbeat. Your move...

Or the Skins can keep a player here who does not want to be here and pay him a LOT of money for the rest of his contract...

If I'm the Jets' GM, I would not pay a nickel of that outrageous signing bonus that the Skins paid to LC with the sole intent of making it impossible for the Jets to resign him. AND if the Skins want Abraham - who I just put my franchise tag on - you can have Abraham for Coles PLUS your first round pick this year. Deal with it.[/QUOTE]


SC, you are not comparing apples to apples here, TO's situation was totally different from Coles TO was a free agent, the 9er's tried to get something for him when it appeared that he didn't file for free agency in time but they never took into account the clause in his contract that made him a free agent regardless of filing, Philli didn't have to give up anything if they didn't want to that pick was to save face for all involved and for the aggrevation the Raven's were put through the NFL put a little pressure on Philli to throw the raven's of san fran [which ever] a bone but that pick was out of sympathy and nothing more, I don't know how you could come to the conclusion that a player of TO's magnitude is only worth a 2nd rd pick, TO's trade value start's at 2 #1's.