Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

Has he agreed to pay back ALL of his signing bonus or some??? I know the cap hit stays the same no matter how much he pays back, but how much has he said he'd pay back???

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

From what I understand he is due a bonus of $5M on April 1. He has supposedly agreed to forfeit that bonus for his outright release.

There is also talk that he would agree to forfeit that $5M bonus if a deal could be struck with a trade partner and they would pay him the bonus instead.

Actually the cap hit won't be the same, if he forfeits bonus money that will reduce his cap hit by the amount he forfeits.

It seems like we're going to take a hit for him no matter what, only question is how much.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

Now that they have backed out on there agreement, I seriously doubt he will payback the money. This one is really going to hurt for a long time to come. But this is exactly why you do not overpay for athletes and give them eccentric siging bounuses. Ol' Danny boy is finally going to learn a lesson on why you do not overpay for players like we do. It can only hurt you in the long run. These signing bonuses are down right redciulous that we hash out like we have a never ending supply.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

We Don't Have To Release Him, We Are Choosing To Do This And We Can Choose Not To.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

Very true. We have to send a message, albeit a hard one, to prospective players that the Redskins as an organization won't tolerate this type of shit just because you don't like "the way things are going."

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

Thank you guys, I posted the same idea last night...WE HAVE NO OBLIGATION to release Coles. Sure, if it worked out for everyone, let's do it. If it helped us and him, and he wants to hit the road, let's accomodate him. However, if we do it, we are going to get SCREWED. Mark my words on that. We will end up seeing LC in a green and white uniform, catching balls from #5, playing the role of Jeremiah Trotter part II, screwing us twice or year, or something of that sort. And just like with Trotter, we will still be paying him. It's a tough break for him, but basically the same sort of thing happened with Ramsey last year, as diehard mentions. He "wasnt pleased with the direction of things" and I believe asked politely for a trade. It wasnt such a big deal because he isnt the big name like LC is, but I think he was nearly as serious. Now he is restructuring his contract to help us. I think you are going to see LC wearing a number 80 jersey in burgundy and gold next year, whether he likes it or not.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

Coles came to the Skins and was happy with the Spurrier "Fun and Gun" mentality. Unfortunatly, it didn't work, or at least Spurrier was to stubborn to hire guys around him that could help make it work. So here we are with a proven coaching style but not in the style Coles likes, or at least that's what Coles thinks. I think that if he gave it another year, he might like it just fine... Ramsey was very apprehensive but I think that he was starting to enjoy being in a standing position at the end of some plays.

I believe that Coles is just not making a good decision about this. If you look at the way last year went, you have to believe Coles should put up over 1000 yards next year. His foot is better than it was at he beginning of the year and Ramsey is back in. The timing is better and illegal motion penalties that hurt the early part in the year were gone by the end.

Also, Gibbs receivers were always productive. One year he even had three receivers over 1000 yards... and that was in a ball control, run first offense.

So, back to the money part. I don't think that the Skins should even consider trading or releasing Coles if there is a significant cap hit. I don't get to change departments if I don't like the group that I work for. It's really not that different. There are other options for Coles if he doesn't want to play out his contract. He could quit, or retire, or play out the contract and become a free agent. Right now he works for the NFL and gets paid a lot to do it. If he doesn't like it, the Arena leagues and Canada are out there.

Sorry, but this situation is really starting to piss me off...

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

Ok, if we don't release him we have someone who does not want to be here. He won't give 100 percent and he will be a cancer in the clubhouse. This is a disaster waiting to happen. All of you guys say someone who does not want to be here should not be here. Now when Lav. Coles says it you don't care. In my book he is good as gone.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

In my book, he should play for the goddamn money that he is paid whether he likes it or not. If the Redskins choose to not let him go, that's THEIR prerogative and when you go onto an NFL team, you KNOW that there's a possibility that not everything is going to go your way. If we just let Coles walk, it will not only hurt the Redskins, it will hurt the league as a whole.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

I agree that he could be a locker room problem. Don't get me wrong, I think that if he wants to go, he should go. I'm jelous. I just wish the rest of us could live under that type of scenario. I'd like to say, "boss, I don't like the way your running things around here so I'm going to demand that you transfer me somewhere else in the company. Wait, no, I think I'm going to demand you let we pick where I want to go in the company. I'll give you some of my hiring bonus back, but not everything. Also, I know that you don't have any suitable replacements lined up, but that's not my problem." I'm pretty sure that one of two things would happen.
1. Your fired.
2. No. Get back to work.

I know that it sounds increadable, but that's how it usually works in business. The NFL is a business, right?

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

Here's my point. This isnt new. He has apparently been displeased with the offense since the middle of last season. Did anyone notice LC dogging it during the season last year? No you did not. So why do you think he will dog it and be a cancer now? I agree with GoSkins, LC works for us, and if he is a standup guy, like EVERYONE in the league and media believes, he will work hard. And if he doesnt like it, well he can sign elsewhere in 3 years. Teams arent the only ones that get stuck with bad contracts for long periods. He signed a 7 year contract, and lets be honest, hes expected to fulfill it.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]In my book, he should play for the goddamn money that he is paid whether he likes it or not. If the Redskins choose to not let him go, that's THEIR prerogative and when you go onto an NFL team, you KNOW that there's a possibility that not everything is going to go your way. [b]If we just let Coles walk, it will not only hurt the Redskins, it will hurt the league as a whole[/b].[/QUOTE]

Agreed

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

The Jets are interested, maybe a d lineman abraham? ?!?

I would be upset but i defense lacks one detail the pass rush, it should be better w/ arrington and bowen but with a defensive end that is that good we would be unstoppable. Do you think the jets would trade him? I think they have a tag on him but it would be helpful to both teams,

Will coles be wearing #87 again with the jets?

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

Speaking of people signing large contracts that didn't work out... maybe a name Mark Brunell rings a bell? He isn't asking to be traded and his ass sits the bench.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Speaking of people signing large contracts that didn't work out... maybe a name Mark Brunell rings a bell? He isn't asking to be traded and his ass sits the bench.[/QUOTE]

A prayer for the skins..
Dear God,
please let this Coles situation be a misprint and the unhappy player willing to give up his signing bonus is Brunnel.
Amen.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

EX-freakin'-ACTLY.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

here is my solution:

1. trade coles to jets for a first round pick, then used it for a wr
2. trade coles for a draft pick, then trade this pick to a big name and producative receiver
3. trade coles for a pick and cash, use this pick, and sign free agents like mason of titans, plax of pitts, etc

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

Our pockets aren't shallow. Snyder doesn't "need" cash. If we get cash from another team that in no way extends our cap so the third option is out - I'd rather just have a first round pick, but I doubt we'd get it.

Malcolm - The difference is a lot of teams want Coles, not a single team wants Brunell.

And you all say you can't be sent to another department - but you sure as hell can quit, and he's giving 5 months notice.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

[QUOTE=bertoskins]here is my solution:

1. trade coles to jets for a first round pick, then used it for a wr
2. trade coles for a draft pick, then trade this pick to a big name and producative receiver
3. trade coles for a pick and cash, use this pick, and sign free agents like mason of titans, plax of pitts, etc[/QUOTE]


If we could get a first round pick; I'd say that. But in my opinion, it would be a high second at best. Unless we got a first round pick, or somehow (I dont understand it to the full degree) had full salary cap relief; then f*ck him. Stay here and play for the contract that YOU SIGNED!!

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]And you all say you can't be sent to another department - but you sure as hell can quit, and he's giving 5 months notice.[/QUOTE]
When you quit after signing a contract with a signing bonus, you're obligated to return the prorated part of the signing bonus that you have not earned. [U]See[/U] Ricky Williams. For L.C., that's about $9.3 million. I doubt he's prepared to return that much. But who knows?

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

I was under the impression he was going to give back what he still owed. If not tell him to fuck off. I don't care if he doesn't dress out. Let's see what kind of contract you get after that.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

Did everyone forget why Coles came here in the first place. 1. The signing bonus was so big he would be set for life and 2. Spurrier was here at the time with the fun and gun offense. He scored quite a bit that here and had a monster year. After Spurrier left points went down and offensive production went down big time. This shouldn't be that big of a shocker anyway if you knew anyhting about Coles you should know about his issues at Florida St.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

The Redskins don't have to trade Coles. That's absolutely true; nothing in the cosmos can force them to do that! The Redskins have him under contract and can indeed force him to play here. Think about that. That is precisely how you want to enter the 2005 season - with your #1 WR pissed off about even being on the team. That's a formula for success. Glad the people who think this is a viable option are not the GM for my team!

Next season the Redskins can have Coles on the inactive list for 14 games and McCants on the inactive list for 14 games. That means we'll probably play Manny, Moe and Jack at WR. That'll get the Skins into the playoffs. That'll help in the development of the young QB.

You want to punish Coles? Great. Try to figure out what your're going ot do about him. But if I'm LC and you keep me until April 2 - against my will or having made whatever changes will make me temporarily happy - there's another $5M of Danny Boy's money in my bank account. Please find another way to punish me that severely! I'd love another $5M payday heading my way for just sitting here in the offseason and running my mouth about how I'm unhappy.

BTW, I can play for the contract that I signed because that contract says the team owes me $5M next month. If the team makes good on that provision and I'll be there for each and every mandatory camp activity and whatever. Oh, somebody here implied that they were going to make me play hard next year. Pardon me while I chuckle. You pay me; I go on the field. At that point, ONLY I define what effort I will give and will not give. So, don't get in my face with your power trip because you have no real power here...

The Washington Redskins info machine has told the world that LC is a "clubhouse problem" - no one else did that. Now, tell me why LC would be highly motivated to help out those folks? Remember, all he has to do is sit on his ass and attend one QB camp in March and he collects $5M from these guys who have "sullied his reputation". And he will be cooperative - - why?

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

Well SC - What do you think LC will be worth if he gets benched for 3 years? Or till whenever we can afford to easily cut him from a salary cap standpoint. Overall I'm sure he'd lose money. I think they'll find a way to work this out that appeases both sides.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

Does anyone know the NFL rules about recouping cap space in the event that a player is injured for an extended period of time? I'm pretty sure there is some situation where a player's salary does not count against the salary cap if he becomes injured for a long period.

If we can't work out a deal for Coles, there is a chance he could "hold out" in an attempt to force a trade. I do agree that he is a stand-up guy who will work his hardest wherever he plays, but his demeanor could change very quickly if he doesn't get what he wants. This would be a disaster, because we would have him eating up cap room, AND not playing. So, if Coles refuses to get the surgery, and he holds out, do you think we could deem his toe "unfit to play," put him on injured reserve, and recoup the cap space that he would have otherwise occupied? It would be a last resort, but it could be useful. We are already snug against the cap, and there's no sense having this receiver eat up a nice chunk of $$ if he won't play.

I mentioned a scenario similar to this in a past thread, but I'm not positive about the league rules regarding this issue.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

SportsCurmudgeon,

From the Washington Post:
[QUOTE][A]ccording to one teammate with knowledge of the situation, Coles has said he would return -- and play hard -- if necessary.[/QUOTE]
I think that before this recent episode (which, as some have noted, Coles handled in a very classy manner by keeping his discontent out of public view), all of us would have agreed that this sounds about right for Coles. Your suggestion that Coles would not play hard if we kept him seems, to me, completely discordant with everything we know about the guy.

Now, even though I think Coles is a stand-up guy, I don't think the Redskins should indulge his ridiculous request to be released. The reason: It's pure blackmail. If we honor this request, there's nothing to stop any player from blackmailing us in this way. Anytime we sign someone, they could cash their signing bonus and then immediately demand to be released. We simply cannot allow that.

Now, because I think Coles is a stand-up guy and has handled this situation professionally, I do think we should try to accomodate his request to be released, [U]but only on fair terms[/U]. As I noted in another thread, if a player retires, he is obligated to return the pro-rated amount of his signing bonus that he has not yet earned. A signing bonus is given in return for the player signing the contract. In this case, Coles was given $13M to play for 7 years. Since he wants to leave after 2 years, I would not even consider his release unless it involves him forfeiting five-sevenths of this amount, or about $9.3M. Accordingly, not only should Coles have to forfeit his right to the $5M installment of his signing bonus he is yet to receive, he should [U]return[/U] (a la Ricky Williams, another malcontent who refused to honor his contract) $4.3M.

In fact, even this is not enough. The $9.3M is what Coles would owe if he wanted to retire. But he doesn't want to retire--he wants to play for another team. For this to be fair, he would need to offer the Redskins (who own his rights to play in the league for the next 5 years) even more for the club to relinquish these rights.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

Coles played hard all year so it is encouraging to hear that if he came back he would continue to do so. I just think too much damage has already been done and at this point both sides need to part ways.

With Derrick Mason available I think the team is even more eager to push Coles out. He appears to be a much better fit for this offense.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]The Redskins don't have to trade Coles. That's absolutely true; nothing in the cosmos can force them to do that! The Redskins have him under contract and can indeed force him to play here. Think about that. That is precisely how you want to enter the 2005 season - with your #1 WR pissed off about even being on the team. That's a formula for success. Glad the people who think this is a viable option are not the GM for my team!

Next season the Redskins can have Coles on the inactive list for 14 games and McCants on the inactive list for 14 games. That means we'll probably play Manny, Moe and Jack at WR. That'll get the Skins into the playoffs. That'll help in the development of the young QB.

You want to punish Coles? Great. Try to figure out what your're going ot do about him. But if I'm LC and you keep me until April 2 - against my will or having made whatever changes will make me temporarily happy - there's another $5M of Danny Boy's money in my bank account. Please find another way to punish me that severely! I'd love another $5M payday heading my way for just sitting here in the offseason and running my mouth about how I'm unhappy.

BTW, I can play for the contract that I signed because that contract says the team owes me $5M next month. If the team makes good on that provision and I'll be there for each and every mandatory camp activity and whatever. Oh, somebody here implied that they were going to make me play hard next year. Pardon me while I chuckle. You pay me; I go on the field. At that point, ONLY I define what effort I will give and will not give. So, don't get in my face with your power trip because you have no real power here...

The Washington Redskins info machine has told the world that LC is a "clubhouse problem" - no one else did that. Now, tell me why LC would be highly motivated to help out those folks? Remember, all he has to do is sit on his ass and attend one QB camp in March and he collects $5M from these guys who have "sullied his reputation". And he will be cooperative - - why?[/QUOTE]
You forgot the biggest lever Coles has - toe surgery. There is nothing to stop him from taking the team's advice (right after he gets his check) and fixing his fractured toe. Then we have paid an additional $5 million for a player who will absolutely be on IR next season, and will be in no hurry to get back onto the field.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

Look, Sports and Brud, as far as I can tell they CANNOT CUT COLES. The salary cap hit would be over 9 mil all at once, requiring a Titans-like roster purge. Coles can count his loot by the beach in Rio if he wants, but he isn't going to play in the NFL for anyone but the skins without a giveback. It's just math.

As for his attitude, my guess is Joe Gibbs will work it out. If not, Coles will sit and collect his contract. But that's way cheaper than cutting him.

Re: Ok...Whats the Deal With Coles & Money
 

And as for "Manny, Moe, and Jack" didn't we already have them? We didn't exactly burn it up at wideout last year...