Coles refusing to rework contract
 

Getting more interesting by the minute, check out this BS

[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45510-2005Feb22.html"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45510-2005Feb22.html[/url]

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

Jesus, I thought the offseason was the 'Skins' opportunity to shine. I don't like the tone this mess sets for the team going into 2005.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

Heh - expect him to be here then. If they don't get things moving he's cheaper to have here disgruntled (playing or not) than to drop.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

I agree Daseal, I don't think we could afford to cut Coles....even if we cut or rework Samuels' contract. My understanding is that we needed to rework Samuels' contract in order to get some cap room to sign players in free agency. We can't lose that room just to accomodate Coles' release.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

maybe i'm in the minority here, but i kinda feel for samuels... he's already reworked his contract twice and although he's not performed up to expectations, i don't know why he should be asked to rework it again. if anything, chris samuels has been the ultimate skins player- kept his mouth shut, played through injury (although inconsistently), AND he's reworked his contract twice.

most players would have tried to bounce much earlier and some who we thought were "gibbs guys" (on their own recognizance) are on their way out. now if samuels refuses to rework for a third time, is he not a true redskin? how many times do you have to do your part to "help the team" (if that means backloading your contract/bonus) before you begin to think about yourself?

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

I agree to a point itvnetop. I do think that Samuels has pushed it back twice already, and has done some things for the good of the team. I think if the team offers him some good bonus money, I would like to see him restrucutre, because that is all that is gaurneeted to him. The fact that he has already reworked it twice wouldnt make me bitter towards him if he dosent for a thrid time.....

...now Coles on the other hand. wtf. Do these guys realize anything but themsleves. Coles refusal to rework a new contract is freaking bullsh*t. So let me get this straight; you sign a 7 year deal, and want out after two years. So the team is trying to possibly let you get out of your deal, but needs you to rework the contract and you say no? You expect the skins' to take that freaking cap hit for your @$$ when you arent doing a god damn thing for us, except b*tch, complain,not honoring yoru contract, and now refusing to rework the contract so that we can get you out of here? Whatever dude, thats bush league. I love how you play on Sundays, but damn this is messed up.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

i totally agree re: coles gmanc... what LC's doing ain't that cool in my book- especially after the skins hooked him up Phat (with a capital P) and especially, as you pointed out, with the skins trying to do their best to fulfill his wish. the organization has make this deal work for them as well, and if LC ain't cool with that, looks like he can either sit and pout as a skin next year (further devaluing himself for a future team) or he can play balls out.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

Why is there no cry and hue for Brunell to rework his contract? It seems like every year Samuels has to go through this but the ultimate underperformer isn't being asked to do anything.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

I really don't have a prob. with Cole's, he want's to win and he want's the ball, if I was a WR in that offense that I watched last year I would be screaming at the top of my lung's as well, I am supposed to bust my a** for what? Nothing! IMO Gibb's coached like a scared old lady last season like the world would end if we threw the ball 5 yard's past the line of scrimmage, then Coles had to sit through half a season while Gibb's forced Brunell down everyone's throat's, I don't blame him one bit, but if he want's out he's going to half to make it worth our while to do so and that mean's signing bonus money and accomadate a trade, I think the Jet's will probably come through with their #1 for Coles if we throw in Morton, that is the scenerio that work's for everyone the Jet's have a late #1 and need a reciever and everyone know's how much Pennington loves Cole's, the Jet's figure that trade will put them over I wouldn't settle for less, other wise he stay's.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

This little blurb in the Times should make us feel a little better

[quote]Washington appears very interested in former Tennessee Titans wide receiver Derrick Mason, who led NFL wideouts with 96 catches last season but was cut this week in a cap purge.[/quote]

As for Coles, I don't understand what he's thinking. If he wants outta here so badly he's gonna have to work with the team on this. And that means giving up his bonus, there's just no way we can afford to take a $9M cap hit for him.

If we can't work a trade I'm starting to think we should just tell him to suck it up and honor his contract.

This is just ridiculous.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

[QUOTE=redwagonskins]Why is there no cry and hue for Brunell to rework his contract? It seems like every year Samuels has to go through this but the ultimate underperformer isn't being asked to do anything.[/QUOTE]

I've heard Brunell may be approached at some point for a restructure but right now we've obviously got more pressing issues.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

[QUOTE=redwagonskins]Why is there no cry and hue for Brunell to rework his contract? It seems like every year Samuels has to go through this but the ultimate underperformer isn't being asked to do anything.[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind that a "simple restructure" to reduce cap hits would only reduce his guaranteed salary for this year by converting it into bonus - thereby increasing the hit later. If the Skins were to do that, it would make Brunell [u]harder[/u] to get rid of later.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

Ah, that makes sense. His contract is really going to kill us in a couple of years though.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

I'd accept a really, really awful off season in exchange for a great season. It seems to me that every year we are the offseason winners and it never equates to anything.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]I'd accept a really, really awful off season in exchange for a great season. It seems to me that every year we are the offseason winners and it never equates to anything.[/QUOTE]

Yeah good point, being champs of the offseason has gotten us nowhere.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

I totally agree.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

The way to deal with Brunell is to bury him as the 3rd string backup, he believes he can still play and start in this league, well he ain't doing either, he might be willing to return some of his bonus as well to get out we will see how much confidence he has in his abilities or if he's just going to hang on for a paycheck, but we have to start purging and rid ourselves of some of these mistakes.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

i've been pondering this for a bit...

and i think the Skins best scenerio is, to keep him, play him, and make him the #1 receiver in the NFL.

sounds crazy right? skins can't trade without a restructure...he doesn't want to, and we can't release him without significant cap problems. so keep him, have him honor his contract, and throw the ball deep to him. Gibbs will open the playbook this year, and you will see more downfield throwing. Make Coles the deep threat, sign Mason to make him possession, and have Thrash and Jacobs in 3 and 4 sets...and go with it.

right now, there are only a handful of teams that might be willing to take a chance. his toe is the biggest concern on everyone's mind, and unless we can get Abraham from the Jets, the best we'll be able to do is like 2nd round or lower.

if he has a big year, scores 4-9 TDs, gets another 90 catches, for 1500 yards...he'll be even more profitable next year, then ship him out.

we do have other pressing needs right now, and should focus on them, as opposed to a hard working guy who is using a prima donna card right now.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

[QUOTE=offiss]The way to deal with Brunell is to bury him as the 3rd string backup, he believes he can still play and start in this league, well he ain't doing either, he might be willing to return some of his bonus as well to get out we will see how much confidence he has in his abilities or if he's just going to hang on for a paycheck, but we have to start purging and rid ourselves of some of these mistakes.[/QUOTE]
I want to disagree with you somewhat. Brunell was a mistake. Lav Coles (the asshole) was not a mistake. I dont think anyone can argue that he is a top talent. He simply does not get the ball in a position to do anything with it. He's tough, he's got good hands, he can block, his speed is above average right now, and his route running is average because of the toe injury. And we do pay him alot, but we can still use him if we cant get something for him. Releasing him for nothing but cap space is a bit of a joke to me.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]If we can't work a trade I'm starting to think we should just tell him to suck it up and honor his contract.[/QUOTE]

You know Matty I'm starting to think the same way. Even if the guy gives back $6M, he'll still count $3M against our 2005 cap, but we won't have the player. If we can't get something back in return then maybe we just keep him for the same $3M cap hit and let him stew on the bench all year.

When his cap hit becomes $7M in 2006, then maybe we dump him. He'll have lost a year of playing time by then, be seen as a malcontent, and his market value will only go down.

I can't believe I'm bad mouthing Lav like this, but Matty's right, it's enough already.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

[QUOTE=Monksdown]I want to disagree with you somewhat. Brunell was a mistake. Lav Coles (the asshole) was not a mistake. I dont think anyone can argue that he is a top talent. He simply does not get the ball in a position to do anything with it. He's tough, he's got good hands, he can block, his speed is above average right now, and his route running is average because of the toe injury. And we do pay him alot, but we can still use him if we cant get something for him. Releasing him for nothing but cap space is a bit of a joke to me.[/QUOTE]


Mistake for Coles is the wrong word it was a good signing at the time, obviously for a # of reason's it hasen't worked out but we have to now look to restructure our cap number's and it start's with Cole's, Brunell, and Samuel's, out of which Coles is the only player amoung them but between his toe and our offense it's time to strike a deal if he really want's out then he has to accomadate otherwise I will have to assume thing's are not as bad as he is making them out to be.

Gibb's should aproach Brunell and come to some kind of compromise, Brunell is just a thorn in the side at this point, my guess is just like Gibb's reluctance to pull him last year he's going to hang on to him to sometime down the road try to justify his signing.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

I think Coles has worked out great, personally. He had 1200 yards in his first year, and 90 catches last year. That's why I'm so shocked and upset to be losing him, he was producing. Even last year when the passing offense was terrible, he had a better than average year by NFL standards.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

I like the idea of making him honor his contract if he wont let us trade him.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

Are there any financial incentives based on things like touchdowns, yards per catch, Pro Bowl selections, that Coles didn't get this year that he's frustrated about.

Could his frustration with the offense be attributed to him not having a chance to pocket more money?

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

[QUOTE=Monksdown]I like the idea of making him honor his contract if he wont let us trade him.[/QUOTE]

I do too and according to the Post, he'll play if he isn't traded or cut.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

What's with the idea of trading him to the Jets for Abraham? Just what we need, a malcontent who nurses an injury after being cleared to play and won't even participate in a PLAYOFF GAME!!!!! Say what you want about TO, he was out there in the SB just weeks after breaking his leg.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

Well, well, well! Look who was right!

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?p=65466#post65466[/url]

Are you reading this Schneed? Hate to say 'I told you so' but. . .

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]This little blurb in the Times should make us feel a little better



As for Coles, I don't understand what he's thinking. If he wants outta here so badly he's gonna have to work with the team on this. And that means giving up his bonus, there's just no way we can afford to take a $9M cap hit for him.

If we can't work a trade I'm starting to think we should just tell him to suck it up and honor his contract.

This is just ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

I agree Matty.......Coles has to make a decision:

1. Does he want to keep his precious bonus??? OR
2. Does he want to get traded???

He can't have BOTH..........

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

monk91:

Oh, but he can have both but not at the same time. All he has to do is to stay here and keep his money in his pocket. Then his toe has to flare up just as training camp begins and not get better. (Do the names Barrow and Arrington ring any bells with you?) Then he goes into the next off-season with a big cap number staring the team in the face and a receiver with a sore - but well rested toe. And he says again next year that he wants out...

How much would he cost the Skins as a part time WR who maybe has to go on IR? See, he knows that number too and he knows that if he sits on that number, that will make Danny Boy's free agency whirlwind circus a lot more constrained than Danny Boy wants it to be.

BTW, Coles does not want to be traded; he wants to be released as an unrestricted free agent. It's the Skins that want to trade him and he says he won't give them any bonus money unless he's released. Maybe he doesn't trust Danny Boy to make a trade that he (Coles) will like. I wouldn't. And since all I have to do to keep collecting some heavy bread is to show up for a few meetings until training camp starts in July, I can tell them what I want and not settle for much of anything less than that.

Re: Coles refusing to rework contract
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]monk91:

Oh, but he can have both but not at the same time. All he has to do is to stay here and keep his money in his pocket. Then his toe has to flare up just as training camp begins and not get better. (Do the names Barrow and Arrington ring any bells with you?) Then he goes into the next off-season with a big cap number staring the team in the face and a receiver with a sore - but well rested toe. And he says again next year that he wants out...

How much would he cost the Skins as a part time WR who maybe has to go on IR? See, he knows that number too and he knows that if he sits on that number, that will make Danny Boy's free agency whirlwind circus a lot more constrained than Danny Boy wants it to be.

BTW, Coles does not want to be traded; he wants to be released as an unrestricted free agent. It's the Skins that want to trade him and he says he won't give them any bonus money unless he's released. Maybe he doesn't trust Danny Boy to make a trade that he (Coles) will like. I wouldn't. And since all I have to do to keep collecting some heavy bread is to show up for a few meetings until training camp starts in July, I can tell them what I want and not settle for much of anything less than that.[/QUOTE]

That was my mistake.....your correct, he does not want to be traded......he wants to be released. Yes he can play the IR game and he has the toe to do it. BUT if he sits on the bench and uses his toe as an excuse....won't it make teams gun shy about signing him since his that the toe is already a concern????