Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

Antonio Pierce is expected to become an unrestricted free agent after talks to re-sign him have ground to a halt.

JESUS! Can the offseason get any worse? Gardner, Pierce, Coles, Smoot, and maybe Samuels. This is friggin crazy. Those are some core Redskins.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

I heard the Rams might be interested in him. But anyway, is this really a big surprise? It would be foolish of Pierce not to test his value on the open market

Do you have a link by the way?

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

I posted it to the News forum.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

Yeah just saw it. Thanks

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

Crap. This kind of turnover is what we were supposed to be avoiding.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

We have to be carefull not over value player's because of a system, William's can make player's look much better than they really are compared to playing in a more conventional defense, the complete reversal that Edward's had when he was here, Pierce whom I have been a fan of since we signed him may not be as good as other's make him out to be, in other word's we shouldn't break the bank for guy's like Pierce and Smoot, reason? I believe we will find as good or better either through the draft or free agency at a much better price, if Pierce feel's he will be as productive in another system then by all mean's, but there could be a good chance he becomes someone else's Jeramiah Trotter.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

I agree, Offiss. However Smoot has been a consistant performer.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]I agree, Offiss. However Smoot has been a consistant performer.[/QUOTE]


Absolutly! I like him a lot in fact I used to tell my Giant buddies I thought he was better than Champ, I still think he will stay, our offer was very fair I don't see other team's breaking the bank for him and we all know he want's to be here, he's just posturing right now.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

Here's a theory: This is the result of Danny-boy overpaying over the last five years. Gibbs is in town, and the purse strings are being held a little tighter this time. No over-the-top payouts. And Gibbs was burned by the Brunell thing. The skins are playing it tight, so players and their agents are holding out.

So be it. I for one am tired of overpaying for players. What has it got us in terms of wins? Find the players that want to be here, and go with them. We have to lose our reputation as a player/agent ATM.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

I mean - this is posturing. Expect a lot of it. Many of these guys will probably stay unless they get an unreal offer from another club. Both Smoot and Pierce saw a lot of success in the scheme. I can also understand how lack of wins could really start to drag a player down emotionally and they want to rejuvinate themselves somewhere new.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

Hopefully Smoot and Pierce stay.Pierce had a great year he was just flat out playing ball and i think he would fit into anyones system.I dont blame him for wanting to see whats out there but i hope he stays home

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

I agree, we need to stop over paying players...do you guys know if this was NE, that Bill would say....watch the door nob on your way out....let their ass go....by by

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]I agree, Offiss. However Smoot has been a consistant performer.[/QUOTE]

Agreed too. I belive it is much harder to make a corner look good in a system. Sure the system wont hurt it, but they still have to do whta all corners in the league do, and Smoot did a good job. Peirce did a phenominal job, but I do think alot had to do with the system, though. Dont get me wrong, I love Peirce, but I'm more worried about Smoot than Peirce.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

There are two positions on defense that Williams addressed last year. One was corner and the other was defensive end. He said that for his system to work, he needed to corners who could play man coverage. He also said that "when Danials is healthy, we are a different defense". That tells me what they feel like they need to be successful. I want Pierce to stay, but at least I did hear that Barrow was actually making progress in his recovery finally.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=offiss]We have to be carefull not over value player's because of a system, William's can make player's look much better than they really are compared to playing in a more conventional defense, the complete reversal that Edward's had when he was here, Pierce whom I have been a fan of since we signed him may not be as good as other's make him out to be, in other word's we shouldn't break the bank for guy's like Pierce and Smoot, reason? I believe we will find as good or better either through the draft or free agency at a much better price, if Pierce feel's he will be as productive in another system then by all mean's, but there could be a good chance he becomes someone else's Jeramiah Trotter.[/QUOTE]

I completely agree, just look at Trotter when he played for the Skins. He was shooting the gaps & missing a lot. he goes back to the Eagles in a system that plays to his strength & looked great.

I would not over-pay for Pierce. There will be players out there with equal or better talent for the same $$$.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

The real question is, has Danny and the Redskins ever lost a Spring of publicity and the top team in Free Agency. They missed on one or 2 last year but all in all they were the cream of the crop in the NFL. So should we doubt them on this. Sure we might lose a few players but those aare guys that are after the money and as we saw with N.E. a whole team wins. Smoot I don't mind losing even though he will have to be replaced but apparently we replaced Bailey last year pretty successfully with Spriggs. Be patient as Redskin One is being cleanned and fueled for takeoff next Monday night.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

If Pierce leaves we'd better hope Barrow can get back to 100%, or perhaps someone like Marshall can slide in to the middle like Pierce did last year.

Imagine an offseason where we lose Smoot, Pierce and Coles?! It could become a reality.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

I know this stinks but it's time for us to face reality. We can't just re-sign everybody and then turn around and pursue every major free agent on the market. Every NFL team has these sort of contract battles each offseason, time for us to take some lumps.

I'd love to see guys like Smoot and Pierce back in Redskins uniforms next year, but they have to be back at the right price. The team obviously has a number in mind for what these guys are worth, and surprise, surprise the players think they are worth more.

Hopefully we can find a middle ground and get these guys back, I think we are bound to lose one of them, but losing both of them will be hard to swallow.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=CRT3]The real question is, has Danny and the Redskins ever lost a Spring of publicity and the top team in Free Agency. They missed on one or 2 last year but all in all they were the cream of the crop in the NFL. So should we doubt them on this. Sure we might lose a few players but those aare guys that are after the money and as we saw with N.E. a whole team wins. Smoot I don't mind losing even though he will have to be replaced but apparently we replaced Bailey last year pretty successfully with Spriggs. Be patient as Redskin One is being cleanned and fueled for takeoff next Monday night.[/QUOTE]
I would say that the Eagles made a much bigger free agent splash than we did last year. Owens and Kearse were the prizes, and they got more than their money's worth out of Trotter. Among our "big name" signings - Brunell, Daniels, and Barrow. One didn't play, one played sparingly, and one played himself out of a job.

Also, as much as I'd like to follow the New England paradigm, we have a culture of acquisition to overcome. This team has been about acquiring the biggest name for a long time, and that isn't something that can be turned of like a faucet.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]I would say that the Eagles made a much bigger free agent splash than we did last year. Owens and Kearse were the prizes, and they got more than their money's worth out of Trotter. Among our "big name" signings - Brunell, Daniels, and Barrow. One didn't play, one played sparingly, and one played himself out of a job.

Also, as much as I'd like to follow the New England paradigm, we have a culture of acquisition to overcome. This team has been about acquiring the biggest name for a long time, and that isn't something that can be turned of like a faucet.[/QUOTE] Agreement on all 3 that you stated. But we signed Pierce, Spriggs, Washington, Griffth, Walt Harris, Tupa, and traded for Trash and Portis. We also drafted Taylor and Cooley. Those are just thenames that pop to my head. So I consider we did pretty good. The Eagles had 2 major ones and much needed areas. Did they win the Super Bowl, which was the supposed goal of these 2 major aquasitions. Expect them to be in Salary cap hell in a few years. They drafted 2 corners in the draft a few years ago because they saw big contract comming due. My personal feeling is the NFL should adopt the Lary Bird rule into there cap. Or at least luxury tax those who go over the cap just like MLB. Mini George would love this.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

It would be terrible to start losing all these players, but I think this is one of those "Going to get worse before it gets better" situations. Snyder has had a history of over-paying and now it is coming back to bite him in the ass.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

He has a history of getting good players to. Players want to come here and with Gibbs here it can only get better. They were pretty close last year.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=CRT3]Agreement on all 3 that you stated. But we signed Pierce, Spriggs, Washington, Griffth, Walt Harris, Tupa, and traded for Trash and Portis. We also drafted Taylor and Cooley. Those are just thenames that pop to my head. So I consider we did pretty good. The Eagles had 2 major ones and much needed areas. Did they win the Super Bowl, which was the supposed goal of these 2 major aquasitions. Expect them to be in Salary cap hell in a few years. They drafted 2 corners in the draft a few years ago because they saw big contract comming due. My personal feeling is the NFL should adopt the Lary Bird rule into there cap. Or at least luxury tax those who go over the cap just like MLB. Mini George would love this.[/QUOTE]
Those you listed were all good signings (Pierce was already here, but the rest were new), but were they all "impact" signings? Washington, Springs, and Griffin clearly were. Harris was very good in nickel duty - good enough that the team isn't desperate to retain Smoot - but he was just the nickel CB. The best punter in the world is still just a punter (and check the archives - I was on the Tupa train before the signing took place). I love Thrash as a Redskin because of his special teams play and attitude, but as a big time acquisition, he falls short (especially since we possibly could have gotten him without trading the pick). Portis is a monster, but if the two arguments (1 - we paid too much too get him, and 2 - he isn't that much better than Betts) are valid, then Portis doesn't count as an impact signing either. (I don't agree with the Portis-bashers, I'm just stating their points)

As for Taylor and Cooley, we have been overdue for a draft pick that turned out the way he was supposed to. Taylor shows flashes of brilliance, and Cooley will be garnering Pro Bowl votes very soon (especially if the NFL continues to list him as a fullback). But since every team gets to draft players, I didn't consider them in the same light as the free agents. I believe we had a great draft last year, but the free agent class will be remembered for it's mistakes rather than its successes.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

I wonder what kind of money Pierce is asking for? I really hope we get him resigned.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]Those you listed were all good signings (Pierce was already here, but the rest were new), but were they all "impact" signings? Washington, Springs, and Griffin clearly were. Harris was very good in nickel duty - good enough that the team isn't desperate to retain Smoot - but he was just the nickel CB. The best punter in the world is still just a punter (and check the archives - I was on the Tupa train before the signing took place). I love Thrash as a Redskin because of his special teams play and attitude, but as a big time acquisition, he falls short (especially since we possibly could have gotten him without trading the pick). Portis is a monster, but if the two arguments (1 - we paid too much too get him, and 2 - he isn't that much better than Betts) are valid, then Portis doesn't count as an impact signing either. (I don't agree with the Portis-bashers, I'm just stating their points)
[/QUOTE] Ok I can see your point about the drafted players. Pierce was a RFA last year and had a offer from the Vikings, which the Redskins matched. So that was a good match. Everybody puts there news into the failures and forgets about the successes. We had far more successes last year then failures. Brunnel is a failure and Daniels supposbly provides great leadership. Barrow is still on the team and if he performs this year then you might eat your words on that one. And there is no doubt in my mind Portis was a great deal.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

Whoever alluded to the Patriots, do you think they'd be in team mentallity if they were winning 5 or 6 games a season? I doubt it, we're going to see guys (like Patton) come out and get overpaid because they have their championships so they're ready to make a buck elsewhere. Winning cures a LOT of problems. I honestly think these guys are curious about what they can get on the market

I also stand that Smoot is more important than Pierce. Barrow, Marshall, someone can play MLB. We have lots of young good LBs. We're quite a bit shorter at corner. I'd like to keep them all, but let's wait and see what happens.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=CRT3]Ok I can see your point about the drafted players. Pierce was a RFA last year and had a offer from the Vikings, which the Redskins matched. So that was a good match. Everybody puts there news into the failures and forgets about the successes. We had far more successes last year then failures. Brunnel is a failure and Daniels supposbly provides great leadership. Barrow is still on the team and if he performs this year then you might eat your words on that one. And there is no doubt in my mind Portis was a great deal.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. We're actually on the same page pretty much. I would do the Portis deal again in a heartbeat, Daniels has an injury he is expected to receover from, and Brunell was an absolute flop. I had also forgotten about Pierce nearly leaving - thanks for the reminder.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]I would say that the Eagles made a much bigger free agent splash than we did last year. Owens and Kearse were the prizes, and they got more than their money's worth out of Trotter. Among our "big name" signings - Brunell, Daniels, and Barrow. One didn't play, one played sparingly, and one played himself out of a job.

Also, as much as I'd like to follow the New England paradigm, we have a culture of acquisition to overcome. This team has been about acquiring the biggest name for a long time, and that isn't something that can be turned of like a faucet.[/QUOTE]Yes the Eagles did a good job in free agency but it was all in vain. Kearse was dominated in the superbowl and Owens was Owens And Donavan Mcpuked. LOL They maybe a great team but they have failed all four years. OH, I wised we could fail a little like that.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

3 straight NFC Championships and a SB appearance? I wish we had those sort of problems.

Say what you will about the Eagles, but for the last 4 years they've been one of the best teams in the NFC and the entire league.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]3 straight NFC Championships and a SB appearance? I wish we had those sort of problems.

Say what you will about the Eagles, but for the last 4 years they've been one of the best teams in the NFC and the entire league.[/QUOTE]I agree If you notice I ended by saying I wish we could fail like that.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=firstdown]I agree If you notice I ended by saying I wish we could fail like that.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I know, I was just elaborating on your point. :)

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

Losing Antonio Pierce would likely be a serious loss. He has been a coach on the field, the quarterback of the defense. Our defense could take a serious step backwards without him on the field.

Still, you can't overpay for one player - that would have a worse consequence. If Mike Barrow can get healthy, though, that would mitigate the loss of Pierce a lot because he can fill in that quarterback of the defense role. But Pierce would be a mainstay for years to come if we could sign him. Hopefully, he won't sign somewhere else just to make a little more money.

With the mess with Coles, this is what can happen when you don't sign "all for one and one for all" team players, and instead shoot for all the big star signings. Fortunately, in the Gibbs era, we have changed our philosophy. However, we are still in transition and it takes time to restructure your team.

Losing Smoot would be unfortunate, but we have good players who are ready to move into that spot, who may turn out to be new Antonio Pierce's, and there are free agents out there we can look at.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I like him a lot... I thought he was better than Champ...[/QUOTE]

I was riding right along with you two guys. Until we hit the Bailey-Smoot-comparison speed bump. :oink:

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=BossHog]I was riding right along with you two guys. Until we hit the Bailey-Smoot-comparison speed bump. :oink:[/QUOTE]


Champ as an athlete is much better than Smoot no doubt, but Smoot's instink's are much better, I try not to judge a player on athletic ability ALA Lavar, but on his abilities as a football player and I have alway's felt Smoot was a better football player he's just smarter than Champ, I never really voiced it to much because I know the kind of IRE I would come under but I have alway's felt that way, it's more of a knock on Champ than pro Smoot who I do like and hope he stay's but I also know Smoot is not an elite CB.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

BrudLee:

You forgot to mention Washington and Griffen as two of our top-shelf signings in free agency last year. They played a lot and they played VERY well!


CRT3:

I suggest that Danny Boy has a history of getting three catagories of players:

1. Players who used to be good (Deion, Bruuuuce, Mark Carrier) but are living on their reputations when he signs them.

2. Players who have prodigious physical skills but never seem to be on winning teams (Jeff George)

3. Players who are good but who get paid as if they are already in the Hall of Fame (Trotter, Morton, Coles)

You said they were "pretty close last year" . Pretty close to what? They were 6-10 and the division winner was 13-3. It looks to me as if they lost the division by 7 games and that is more games than they won all year.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

Gibbs was always a Coach who dug through the scrap heap and found guys like Doug Williams and Earnest Byner. They would draft guys in the 9th round (Jacobey) and turn them into amazing players.

Joe Gibbs always finds himself falling into hog shit and coming out smelling like a rose. I'm keeping the faith.

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

While I'm wearing my burgundy colored glasses, I'll say that this could be a blessing in disguise for us. Maybe by losing guys like Coles, and Smoot we could possibly go 8-8. :Smoker:

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]BrudLee:

You forgot to mention Washington and Griffen as two of our top-shelf signings in free agency last year. They played a lot and they played VERY well!


CRT3:

I suggest that Danny Boy has a history of getting three catagories of players:

1. Players who used to be good (Deion, Bruuuuce, Mark Carrier) but are living on their reputations when he signs them.

2. Players who have prodigious physical skills but never seem to be on winning teams (Jeff George)

3. Players who are good but who get paid as if they are already in the Hall of Fame (Trotter, Morton, Coles)

You said they were "pretty close last year" . Pretty close to what? They were 6-10 and the division winner was 13-3. It looks to me as if they lost the division by 7 games and that is more games than they won all year.[/QUOTE]

Is it so much Danny Boy or is it REALLY Vince!!! We really need a DECENT GM that doesn't go by reputation as much as what pieces can actually fit with what we have, and would work with what the team wants to do offensively and defensively..............

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

I want Coles to be a Redskin, but I dont think that Smoot or Pierce deserve big money. Pierce had one great year in a great system. Mabye he can use his mental awareness to be a good player but we could easily upgrade him with someone more physically gifted and plug him into williams system. We dotn have tons of cap, and we've made plenty of mistakes. I want us to keep more of our own players and stop getting old free agent. So heres a great opportunity for us to start building in the draft. In recent years rookies have been having huge impacts. Especially at the linebacker and corner positions

Re: Pierce Expected to Become UFA
 

[QUOTE=drew54]Gibbs was always a Coach who dug through the scrap heap and found guys like Doug Williams and Earnest Byner. They would draft guys in the 9th round (Jacobey) and turn them into amazing players.

Joe Gibbs always finds himself falling into hog shit and coming out smelling like a rose. I'm keeping the faith.[/QUOTE]


No he wasen't that was Bobby Beatherd who did the digging.