All things Middle East related
 

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/anti-islam-film-sparks-libya-egypt-protests-010225564.html]Anti-Islam film sparks Libya, Egypt protests - Yahoo! News[/url]


I generally am opposed to shelling or firing upon people, but a breach on our soil (aka..embassy) should have called for some swift retaliation upon that crowd. The fact they want to hang a Al Qaeda flag where our American flag was is all the more reason to drop a frag grenade among them.



I'm making a general thread about the middle east as I really don't want to start a new thread for every event. (syria/egypt/lybia/iran)

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the more we try to help these people, the more they act like animals.

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Our ambassador to Libya is dead.

[url=http://www.cnn.com/]CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News[/url]

All over an obscure film on YouTube???? That may be what the leadership used to fire up the protestors, but there is no coincidence this was on the 11th anniversary of 9/11, with coordinated attacks in Egypt and Libya.

I'm not saying invade Egypt and Libya.....however there needs to be a devastating response to the groups that organized this, and not a month from now either.

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Holy Crap!!

Isn't this the same government we assisted in taking power by creating no fly zones with our pilots putting themselves at risk for the rebels?

Just am speechless. We need to end our dependency on foreign oil. It is the biggest deterrent from free action in foreign policy. Screw'em. End all foreign aid.

I hate mindless religious fanatics of any stripe.

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Theres no decent way to deal with this.
How do we retaliate against roving civilian mobs half a world away?
efff all of them!
Their reaction to a "video" shows how fecked up their religion really is.
They function like its the 1600s.

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[quote=JoeRedskin;939780]Holy Crap!!

Isn't this the same government we assisted in taking power by creating no fly zones with our pilots putting themselves at risk for the rebels?

Just am speechless. We need to end our dependency on foreign oil. It is the biggest deterrent from free action in foreign policy. Screw'em. End all foreign aid.

I hate mindless religious fanatics of any stripe.[/quote]

We helped rebels not knowing who or what they were and now we do. This in my eyes is a declaration of war and we should take swift action and hit back very soon.

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[quote=firstdown;939803]We helped rebels not knowing who or what they were and now we do. This in my eyes is a declaration of war and we should take swift action and hit back very soon.[/quote]

:doh:

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[quote=firstdown;939803]We helped rebels not knowing who or what they were and now we do. This in my eyes is a declaration of war and we should take swift action and hit back very soon.[/quote]

What would you hit?
Civilian mobs?

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yes, every single american death should merit a full scale invasion of an entire country.

[quote]Just four days after 9/11, Balbir Singh Sodhi, a 49-year-old immigrant from India who wore a turban and a beard, was fatally shot in front of his gas station in Mesa, Ariz. The gunman, Frank Roque, then fired on a man of Lebanese descent and an Afghan family nearby. He was angry about the 9/11 attack. [/quote]

so, when india, afghanistan, and lebanon invade arizona, it's cool, cause you said it was justified. no wonder the world is screwed up.

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[quote=Alvin Walton;939822]What would you hit?
Civilian mobs?[/quote]

I know its not an act of war it just pisses me off we help these people and they shit on us. Its time we tell these Fing ass holes to kiss our ass and pull our troops from every place in the middle east. As we leave we warn them if they F&^% with us any more they die. Its all they know.

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As odd as it seems, we're probably better off having some US presence in these hot spots than nothing at all.

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[quote=12thMan;939851]As odd as it seems, we're probably better off having some US presence in these hot spots than nothing at all.[/quote]

He thought the same thing.

"The reopening of our consular section will create new opportunities for deepening the ties between our two countries," the newspaper quoted him as saying. "Relationships between governments are important, but relationships between people are the real foundation of mutual understanding," Stevens said.

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[url=http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/12/world/africa/libya-attack-jihadists/index.html?hpt=hp_c1]Pro-al Qaeda group seen behind deadly Benghazi attack - CNN.com[/url]

would not surprise if al qaeda is behind it. on sept. 11th too? Believe me, these guys are being hunted today. People will pay.

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[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;939767]Our ambassador to Libya is dead.

[url=http://www.cnn.com/]CNN.com - Breaking News, U.S., World, Weather, Entertainment & Video News[/url]

All over an obscure film on YouTube???? That may be what the leadership used to fire up the protestors, but there is no coincidence this was on the 11th anniversary of 9/11, with coordinated attacks in Egypt and Libya.

I'm not saying invade Egypt and Libya.....however there needs to be a devastating response to the groups that organized this, and not a month from now either.[/quote]

This is gut wrenching and truly upsetting. Once live fire is heard there's no such thing as a civilian...you fire at will and in all directions.

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[quote=saden1;939873]This is gut wrenching and truly upsetting. Once live fire is heard there's no such thing as a civilian...[COLOR="Red"]you fire at will and in all directions[/COLOR].[/quote]

Yea right....thats what got Blackwater in such deep sh1t.

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yeah, cause one idiot fires a gun, you have full authority to murder 2000 peaceful protestors (though these guys weren't exactly entirely peaceful).

i'll remember that next time some wack job tries to shoot up a school.

"oh, shots fired - let's just bring in some tanks and blow the entire building apart. those people stuck inside aren't students anymore, they're the enemy"


i'm just glad some of the people in this thread aren't in charge of response teams. you guys are scary and/or crazy and/or not really thinking about what you're suggesting.

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[quote=That Guy;939939]yeah, cause one idiot fires a gun, you have full authority to murder 2000 peaceful protestors (though these guys weren't exactly entirely peaceful).

i'll remember that next time some wack job tries to shoot up a school.

"oh, shots fired - let's just bring in some tanks and blow the entire building apart. those people stuck inside aren't students anymore, they're the enemy"


i'm just glad some of the people in this thread aren't in charge of response teams. you guys are scary and/or crazy and/or not really thinking about what you're suggesting.[/quote]


Peaceful? This is a hostile crowd attacking the embassy. You should fire warning shots up in the air and if that doesn't get them to scramble you shoot them in the face. I'm confident this is probably what happened but there was just too many of them.


...and this is coming from someone who has been deemed a liberal on this forum.

As for the stupid comparison to Blackwater, [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/10/05/us-iraq-contractors-report-idUSN0439965120071005"]there is no moral equivalence[/URL].

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[quote=saden1;939948]Peaceful? This is a hostile crowd attacking the embassy. You should fire warning shots up in the air and if that doesn't get them to scramble you shoot them in the face. I'm confident this is probably what happened but there was just too many of them.


...and this is coming from someone who has been deemed a liberal on this forum.

As for the stupid comparison to Blackwater, [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/10/05/us-iraq-contractors-report-idUSN0439965120071005"]there is no moral equivalence[/URL].[/quote]saden and I don't agree on a lot politically, but I'm certainly in line with his Rules of Engagement.

This was a coordinated attack with insider support (at least it appears so in Libya). Response must be to devastate the groups that coordinated these attacks...wherever they are. If the host country does not support our tactical response.....and/or decide to get in the way....they go down too.

These violent extremists only understand force....nothing else.

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LOL...you guys crack me up.
Its been widely reported that Al Qaeda was responsible for this.
Not the civilian mob that was on the scene.
We've been drooping drone poop on them for a long time and will continue to do so.

"They go down too" .....lol

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[quote=Alvin Walton;939959]LOL...you guys crack me up.
Its been widely reported that Al Qaeda was responsible for this.
Not the civilian mob that was on the scene.
We've been drooping drone poop on them for a long time and will continue to do so.

"They go down too" .....lol[/quote]You understand that there appear to be (at best case) terrorist sympathizers in Libya's security forces that gave away the position of our Ambassador.

[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57511043/u.s-officials-deadly-libya-attack-likely-planned/]Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens - CBS News[/url]

You are extremely naive if you don't think there's a strong chance there are (again at best case) factions within the Libyan and Egyptian gov't that support these attacks. If we identify the terrorist groups within Libya/Egypt and where to attack....and the Libyan and/or Egyptian gov'ts won't allow us clearance or wind up notifying the terrorists of our plans....then absolutely we strike at their military infrastructure and claim a "stray missle" or something to that effect.

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[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;939966]You understand that there appear to be (at best case) terrorist sympathizers in Libya's security forces that [COLOR="Red"][COLOR="Red"]gave away the position of our Ambassador.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57511043/u.s-officials-deadly-libya-attack-likely-planned/]Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens - CBS News[/url]

You are extremely naive if you don't think there's a strong chance there are (again at best case) factions within the Libyan and Egyptian gov't that support these attacks. If we identify the terrorist groups within Libya/Egypt and where to attack....and the Libyan and/or Egyptian gov'ts won't allow us clearance or wind up notifying the terrorists of our plans....then absolutely we strike at their military infrastructure and claim a "stray missle" or something to that effect.[/quote]

LOL.....he was in the consulate building. Whats to give away? Every Abdul in the town knows where that is.

And your stray missile comment is amusing.
Where does this stray missile come from?
One of our many training ranges in Egypt?

And regarding your faction comment regarding who supports these attacks, I'd be of the opinion that any swinging dick that reads a Koran fits that description.

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[quote=saden1;939948]Peaceful? This is a hostile crowd attacking the embassy. [COLOR="Red"][SIZE="3"]You should fire warning shots up in the air and if that doesn't get them to scramble you shoot them in the face.[/SIZE][/COLOR] I'm confident this is probably what happened but there was just too many of them.


...and this is coming from someone who has been deemed a liberal on this forum.

As for the stupid comparison to Blackwater, [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/10/05/us-iraq-contractors-report-idUSN0439965120071005"]there is no moral equivalence[/URL].[/quote]

Whos going to fire the shots?
There were no Marines at this consulate. They were at the embassy in Tripoli.

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[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;939954]saden and I don't agree on a lot politically, but I'm certainly in line with his Rules of Engagement.

This was a coordinated attack with insider support (at least it appears so in Libya). Response must be to devastate the groups that coordinated these attacks...wherever they are. If the host country does not support our tactical response.....and/or decide to get in the way....they go down too.

These violent extremists only understand force....nothing else.[/quote]

I am glad we agree and I hope we are on the same page in condemning Romney's disgraceful performance in the past 24 hours.

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[quote=Alvin Walton;939977]Whos going to fire the shots?
There were no Marines at this consulate. They were at the embassy in Tripoli.[/quote]

I thought 2 marines were killed in the attack.

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[quote=Alvin Walton;939976]LOL.....he was in the consulate building. Whats to give away? Every Abdul in the town knows where that is.

And your stray missile comment is amusing.
Where does this stray missile come from?
One of our many training ranges in Egypt?

And regarding your faction comment regarding who supports these attacks, I'd be of the opinion that any swinging dick that reads a Koran fits that description.[/quote]Read the link. From the link:

He said Stevens, 52, and other officials were moved to a second building - deemed safer - after the initial wave of protests at the consulate compound. [B][I]According to al-Sharef, members of the Libyan security team seem to have indicated to the protesters the building to which the American officials had been relocated, and that building then came under attack.[/I][/B]

This is a very fluid situation, an updated link:
[URL="http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=117838"]Defense.gov News Article: Official Details Benghazi Attack, Vows to Support Libya[/URL]

Once we've determined who's responsible, missle strikes can be done from our destroyers enroute to the Libyan coast, submarine assets, or other Air Force assets in the region. Special Forces can prepare for an assault and be in region with 24-48 hours.

As far a factions supporting this, I'm specifically speaking about government (or elements within the gov't) support for these attacks by Libya/Egypt.

You've done a bunch of LOL'ing at others, what do you propose we do here?

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[quote=saden1;939983]I thought 2 marines killed in the attack.[/quote]You are correct.

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[quote=saden1;939982]I am glad we agree and I hope we are on the same page in condemning Romney's disgraceful performance in the past 24 hours.[/quote]I really wish we weren't in an election season right now. I believe it would've been best for Romney to make a statement condeming the acts forcefully and that we should never apologize for our freedom of speech, without taking shots at the POTUS. Better to wait and point out differences in strategy/position in the foreign policy debate.

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[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;939986]I really wish we weren't in an election season right now. I believe it would've been best for Romney to make a statement condeming the acts forcefully and that we should never apologize for our freedom of speech, without taking shots at the POTUS. Better to wait and point out differences in strategy/position in the foreign policy debate.[/quote]

We agree again.

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[url=http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/09/does-not-represent-us-moving-photos-pro-american-rallies-libya/56803/]'This Does Not Represent Us': Moving Photos of Pro-American Rallies in Libya - Politics - The Atlantic Wire[/url]

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yes, the security forces tipped off the violent elements that used the crowd to hide in, and i'm pretty sure we're looking into dealing with as many of those criminal/murderous people as we can. no president loves drone death more than obama. if you can sniff the problem children out and stamp on them, great, but killing those that haven't done anything egregious is a great way to turn the entire country against you very quickly.

so you have to be really careful about shooting into crowds. generally you try to snipe the rpgs/leaders when they start pointing guns at you and that gets the message across really quickly. the thing you don't want to go is encourage anyone who's standing around to go home, get their guns, and come back looking for a fight.

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[quote=saden1;939983]I thought 2 marines were killed in the attack.[/quote]

Link?

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Ok let me back up a minute here and say things a little clearer because I actually agree with the general feeling you guys have but I dont advocate willy nilly retailation if it puts more American soldiers at risk.

First of all I dont believe in any kind of higher power, so I dont believe anything these Muslim idiots do is justified. If they dont like our videos, feck them....its just a video about a mythical being AFAIC.

I'm distrustfull of the Arab nation as a whole.
I've heard some extremists say that we (the west/America) are/should be at war with the muslim religion. I lean about 80% towards that mind set.
However, even if we really were I dont see it ending in the next 500 years as these people will continue to procreate and want to be martyrs.
Sh1tty sitauation and I have no idea how to resolve.

When we invaded Iraq I was for it. Same goes for whatever you want to call the action in Afghanistan.....
However now I'm very tired and fed up with Americans in body bags.
My stance is no more boots on the ground to resolve things in the middle east.
Continue the fight....but let technology and drones do it and whatever else DARPA the CIA and the Skunkworks can come up with.

As for Libya....its a huge mess. Its a fractured country with a fledgeling govt. with different factions of military.
It could have been one of many "factions" in that area that ratted out and killed our state dept people. Regardless, its all about their religion so feck all of them.
Stay the feck out of Libya and let technology find and kill these arsewipes.

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[quote=Alvin Walton;940006]Ok let me back up a minute here and say things a little clearer because I actually agree with the general feeling you guys have but [B]I dont advocate willy nilly retailation if it puts more American soldiers at risk.[/B]

First of all I dont believe in any kind of higher power, so [B]I dont believe anything these Muslim idiots do is justified. If they dont like our videos, feck them[/B]....its just a video about a mythical being AFAIC.

I'm distrustfull of the Arab nation as a whole.
I've heard some extremists say that we (the west/America) are/should be at war with the muslim religion. I lean about 80% towards that mind set.
However, even if we really were I dont see it ending in the next 500 years as these people will continue to procreate and want to be martyrs.
Sh1tty sitauation and I have no idea how to resolve.

When we invaded Iraq I was for it. Same goes for whatever you want to call the action in Afghanistan.....
However now [B]I'm very tired and fed up with Americans in body bags.[/B]
[B]My stance is no more boots on the ground to resolve things in the middle east.[/B]
[B]Continue the fight....but let technology and drones do it and whatever else DARPA the CIA and the Skunkworks can come up with.[/B]

As for Libya....its a huge mess. Its a fractured country with a fledgeling govt. with different factions of military.
It could have been one of many "factions" in that area that ratted out and killed our state dept people. Regardless, its all about their religion so feck all of them.
[B]Stay the feck out of Libya and let technology find and kill these arsewipes[/B].[/quote]We agree on bolded. The only thing I would add is that I'm sure we'll need some sort of Spec Ops response....certainly not publicized. Defintely no repeat of Iraq & Afghanistan with widespread and massive boots-on-ground response.

These new regimes need to understand very quickly by a show of force if American interests in their countries are compromised the punishment will be swift, certain and severe. If they don't control the terrorist factions within their borders we will eliminate them ourselves.

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Any chance we can get the filmaker and all financiers of the film on the first plane to Cairo? I cant stand when some one yells free speech and goes into hiding. You make something with the sole purpose of hate and too afraid to face the reaction? What a ****in pussy.

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I didn't see the guy hiding he was on the news doing an interview. Funny how this is deemed so bad but the attacks on religion seems fair game. So if all the Cristians start killing people everytime their religion is attacked we can then start calling that free speech hatred.

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[quote=drew54;939991][URL="http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/09/does-not-represent-us-moving-photos-pro-american-rallies-libya/56803/"]'This Does Not Represent Us': Moving Photos of Pro-American Rallies in Libya - Politics - The Atlantic Wire[/URL][/quote]
Nice to see but that's a small group saying they support us compared to hate we see. If you look at the photos its the same small group of people with pics from different angles.

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[quote=Alvin Walton;940005]Link?[/quote]

There are conflicting reports on whether the two security guards killed were marines.

[url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57511043/assault-on-u.s-consulate-in-benghazi-leaves-4-dead-including-u.s-ambassador-j-christopher-stevens]Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens - CBS News[/url]

[quote]Al-Sharef said two U.S. Marines sent to Benghazi when the clash erupted were shot and killed by the well-armed protesters. It was not immediately clear whether the Marines were part of Stevens' security detail. [/quote]

[url=http://www.businessinsider.com/report-two-marines-killed-in-attack-on-us-consulate-in-libya-2012-9]REPORT: Two Marines Killed In Attack On US Consulate In Libya - Business Insider[/url]

[quote]Marine Capt. Kendra Motz told us: "We don't have any Marine equities in the consulate in Benghazi, nor do we have any reports of Marine casualties from there at this time."[/quote]


[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/anti-terror-marine-team-heading-to-libya-to-reinforce-security-at-diplomatic-facilities/2012/09/12/7d3ffe9c-fd3a-11e1-98c6-ec0a0a93f8eb_story.html]Anti-terror Marine team heading to Libya to reinforce security at diplomatic facilities - The Washington Post[/url]

[quote]U.S. embassies, particularly in major countries and in unstable or less secure nations, usually have a resident contingent of Marine security guards. Early indications were that there was no Marine security unit at the U.S. consulate in Benghazi. A consulate is a branch office in major cities outside the capital. These guards work under the supervision of the senior diplomatic officer at an embassy.

The main role of Marine security guards is to protect classified national security documents, according to the web site of the Marine Corps Embassy Security Group, which administers the security guard mission from a Marine base in Virginia. Their secondary role is to protect U.S. citizens and U.S. government property in the event of an emergency.[/quote]

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[quote=firstdown;940044]Nice to see but that's a small group saying they support us compared to hate we see. If you look at the photos its the same small group of people with pics from different angles.[/quote]


They in a war zone and are putting themselves in danger to sympathize with us and protest the killings and all you have to say is "form the pictures there aren't many of them." What an asinine thing to say.

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[quote=saden1;940071]They in a war zone and are putting themselves in danger to sympathize with us and protest the killings and all you have to say is "form the pictures there aren't many of them." What an asinine thing to say.[/quote]

You left off my entire post. I said it was nice to see but it was not very many people. It was oringinally posted like there was some hugh ground swell of support for the US. By you saying they were brave to do what they did is just confirming their hate for us. Which was my point.

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I wonder if they used the weapons that Obama gave them to kill our own?