Moss for Coles?
 

[url="http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/ny-spjets0224,0,5954589.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines"]http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/ny-spjets0224,0,5954589.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines[/url]

I found this in newsday and it made me wonder, could the Jets be interested in swapping Moss for Coles?

Moss is apparently looking for an extension and the Jets are already bogged down trying to get other guys inked. And since the Jets were already looking for an upgrade at WR I think a deal like this could be right up both teams' alley.

What do you guys think? Would you be in favor of Moss for Coles straight up?

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I would love that deal. It seems reasonable from both ends, I don't see why it couldn't happen. I guess it would depend on what the Jets' plan is for Moss. If they plan on keeping him around for the long haul, then I doubt this trade would go through. But if not, then it sounds like it could happen.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

This sounds fairly interesting and workable..............

If Coles did get this deal will he complain about Curtis Martin handling the ball too much
:rolleyes:

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I'd take it. Hate to see LC go, but I'll sign off on that trade.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT!!!

That gives us a huge deep threat and a special teams players!!!

Oh, and what college did he go to and dominante at, I forget?!?!

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

No, this one doesn't make any sense to me. You trade Coles, take a huge cap hit this year, get a guy who is very similar in talent to Coles, and then sign him to an extension that would end up being more costly than what Coles was on the books for? Doesn't make any sense.

I'd rather have the Jets' 1st rounder, #26 overall. Time to start doing things the right way, build through the draft.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I doubt this deal will happen, but the acquisition of Moss would facilitate the release (or trade) of Morton also. More cap space for me!

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

hey canuck maybe you can help me with this cause ive always been confused i hear all the time that a team cant trade someone because of the massive cap hit they would take does that meen the team getting the player takes little to no cap hit in getting him if so wouldnt that raise coles value the team getting him would get a great player at very little cap cost i meen if i could get coles under contract for the next five years and not have to count his signing bonus against my cap i would probably give up a little more (oh by the way i failed english miserably so i apolagize for the run on sentence)

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I'd do it. Maybe we can get a late round pick also. But I don't know.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=redskinsskickazz]hey canuck maybe you can help me with this cause ive always been confused i hear all the time that a team cant trade someone because of the massive cap hit they would take does that meen the team getting the player takes little to no cap hit in getting him if so wouldnt that raise coles value the team getting him would get a great player at very little cap cost i meen if i could get coles under contract for the next five years and not have to count his signing bonus against my cap i would probably give up a little more (oh by the way i failed english miserably so i apolagize for the run on sentence)[/QUOTE]

Essentially, you have to take a cap hit for whatever you pay a player. So, if you have a guy on your team, and you pay him his annual salary, you take that as a hit on your cap. If you trade a guy though, you're not paying his annual salary anymore, so you don't have to take that as a hit.

Signing bonuses are different though. If you give a guy a $10 million signing bonus on a 5-year contract, you don't have to take all $10 million of that against your cap in the first year. You can divide it up evenly over the life of the contract. So if the signing bonus is $10 million on a 5-year deal, you take $2 million against the cap each year.

If a player is traded after only one year of that contract, he still has 4 years left. And since you only counted $2 million of the signing bonus in year 1, you still have the other $8 million to go. Since you paid him the signing bonus, you have to take the remaining hit for it if you trade him. That means trading him after year 1 of the contract hits you with the remaining $8 million in year 2.

So if we trade Coles, the Jets will pay him his annual salary, so we can wipe that part off of our books. But since we paid him that $13 million bonus, and he has only played 2 years with us, we still have $9.28 million of it left to hit our cap this year.

The NFL has set up this system to reward teams for getting good value for their money from players, to prevent teams from overpaying for players and driving up player salaries. Without this system, you'd see a situation like in Baseball, where the Yanks & Red Sox sign everyone under the sun, while the Royals and Devil Rays can't afford anybody. Or worse, this could be the NHL, and player salaries could climb so high that teams would go bankrupt by trying to pay them, leading to labor strikes. The NFL system is the best in the sports world.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=redskinsskickazz]hey canuck maybe you can help me with this cause ive always been confused i hear all the time that a team cant trade someone because of the massive cap hit they would take does that meen the team getting the player takes little to no cap hit in getting him if so wouldnt that raise coles value the team getting him would get a great player at very little cap cost i meen if i could get coles under contract for the next five years and not have to count his signing bonus against my cap i would probably give up a little more (oh by the way i failed english miserably so i apolagize for the run on sentence)[/QUOTE]

And yes, you're right. If Coles gets traded to the Jets, they will only have to count his base salaries against their cap. Which amount to:

2005: $1.5 million
2006: $3.0 million
2007: $3.0 million
2008: $5.0 million
2009: $6.0 million

Those cap figures are an absolute bargain for someone of Coles' ability. The Redskins know this, and will ask for a 1st rounder and might get it. The only thing that may hurt the 'Skins position in trade talks is the toe, people may be nervous about it. So I'd expect a 2nd rounder, but a 1st rounder isn't out of the question, since 3 teams are expected to be interested.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

that article said the jets were looking for a receiver to play opposite Justin McCareins,and Moss would be a reserve,if the jets want to move him to a reserve role then they obviously think he's not the guy,why would we want him? We need a starter

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

thanks for the response that clears it up so if we pay all of coles bonus that will signifigantly increase coles value in a trade

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

The Jets are apparently a heavy favorite for Derrick Mason, who would reunite with his Titans OC Mike Heimerdinger

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I'd take this in a heartbeat since I wanted him here, but we took Gardner instead ahead of him in the draft.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I don't like Santana Moss. I think the guy has been a disapointment for his whole career. I don't like this. I want a draft pick for Coles. Any draft pick in the top 3 rounds is worth more to me than Moss. I don't see Moss as being anything more than a good #2 in the NFL. He had 45 catches and 5 TD's last season. I just don't like him at all.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

extremeskins.com is reporting the deal is done...

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=d151b]extremeskins.com is reporting the deal is done...[/QUOTE]

Here it is.....

[url]http://sportsline.com/nfl/story/8228173[/url]

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

It's being reported on the radio here as well. So Coles goes back to the team that drafted him in return for the guy we nearly drafted before we got Gardner, who we're about to let go....circle of life

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

wow, I guess my crystal ball was right!

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

Since he returns kicks this helps kill two birds with one stone. Of course we still have Antonio Brown so who knows if we would risk having Moss return kicks, but he's still a good insurance policy for the return game.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

Moss, Brown, Thrash, Jacobs....it's the Smurfs all over again!

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

Since he's going to a team he's happy with, I'm wondering if he will give up that $5M bonus?

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Since he's going to a team he's happy with, I'm wondering if he will give up that $5M bonus?[/QUOTE]

or maybe not...

[quote]sources said the Jets will not agree to a deal that includes the assumption of the bonus, and that for the trade to go through Washington would have to pay the remaining sum. They also said the Redskins seem willing to pay it.[/quote]

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I'm not crazy about this one. I think Moss is a downgrade from Coles. That said, if he's going to be a Redskin, the eternal optimist in me can't help but get excited about the possibility of him adding the big-play threat that he was in 2003. His season in 2004 really worries me, I hope we're not getting damaged goods. But if he's healthy, he can definitely stretch the field which we desperately need.

The sportsline article made it sound like there was a possibility that Coles would give back the $5 million even though he'd be getting traded instead of released. That would make me like the deal a whole lot more; we'd have cap space to do a lot more in free agency.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I guess this means that Samuels did restructure. Great news.

So what happens to Chad Morton now? If it was up to me, I'd cut his ass asap.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

Even before this deal I think Morton's spot with the team was in jeopardy.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

On paper Coles is way better than Moss, but I think Moss brings some speed that we needed badly at WR.

As for Coles, no sense in keeping a player who doesn't want to play for you.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

Moss is probably just as fast as Coles plus he's not playing with a bum toe.

The book on Moss from Scouts Inc.

[quote]Name: Santana Moss
Position: Wide Receiver
Grade: 76 | Key
Alert: B

Comment:
Moss explodes out of cuts, runs precise routes and excels at generating separation working against man coverage. Changes directions without losing much speed in transition, shows effective double moves and will occasionally turns defensive backs around. Has the elusiveness to make multiple defenders miss and is a threat to make something happen every time touches the ball. Shows great body control and can adjust to the ball while it's in the air. Catches the ball with hands away from frame, can catch the ball at its highest point and will make some acrobatic receptions. Moss generally uses his quick feet and rare agility to avoid the jam at the line but he lacks prototypical size, he lacks the upper body strength to beat the jam when a corner gets into his frame and bigger corners will have some success muscling him out of his routes. Lacks bulk, doesn't show great power at the point of attack and offers little as a blocker though gives good effort. He is a marginal No. 1 and an excellent No. 2.
[/quote]

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

I don't like this trade. We take a 9 mil hit this year and we have to give Moss a new big contract or risk losing him next year. And he's not even as good as Coles, and I am probably one of the biggest Coles detractors on this website. However, Coles is better than Moss. Why can't they just get a draft pick? Why do they always need to bring in other teams problems?

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Moss is probably just as fast as Coles plus he's not playing with a bum toe.

The book on Moss from Scouts Inc.[/QUOTE]


Very, very similar. You're right Matty. Coles is probably alot stronger and slightly quicker.

I guess we're going have to get Moss into the weight room, so he can improve his upper body strength.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=celts32]I don't like this trade. We take a 9 mil hit this year and we have to give Moss a new big contract or risk losing him next year. And he's not even as good as Coles, and I am probably one of the biggest Coles detractors on this website. However, Coles is better than Moss. Why can't they just get a draft pick? Why do they always need to bring in other teams problems?[/QUOTE]

Nothing is official yet, including the details on whether or not we will have to take the full hit or if he's going to give the $5M back.

How is Moss a problem?

Everybody always wants draft picks, but will a rookie WR be ready to make the same impact as Moss? Very doubtful.

I'm just glad we're getting something out of this deal.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Moss is probably just as fast as Coles plus he's not playing with a bum toe.

The book on Moss from Scouts Inc.[/QUOTE]

Congratulations, Matty, on your prescient prediction. And thanks for the scouting report.

One thing you can say is that with the new NFL rules or new pattern of rule enforcement on receiver coverage, I think a player like Santana Moss is given even more of an advantage and will thrive.

This is a move that I think would be terrific for the Redskins. Moss is a superbly talented player, and I think he will fit in very well here. I like that he is a community contributor as well and has a foundation - that is a good sign about character.

So, if all of this goes through - and I know we shouldn't count our chickens before they hatch though - we could have Moss to go with Jacobs, with Thrash there and still draft a receiver at #9 unless the talent level of other players available at other positions is definitely greater.

We are lucky that they have such affection for Coles in New York because other teams might not be so willing to risk such a trade with his health concerns.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

From Mark Maske's chat running today from 11am to Noon on the WP website. Maske likes a Coles - Moss swap.

Los Angeles, Calif.: CBS Sportsline is reporting that the Skins are trading Coles to the Jets for Santana Moss. Straight up deal, with the Skins eating all of Coles' contract.

All things considered, it doesn't seem like a bad deal if it goes through.

Mark Maske: When the Redskins drafted Rod Gardner, Dan Snyder wanted Santana Moss but Marty Schottenheimer wanted Gardner. That's one where Snyder was right. If they could get Santana Moss for Laveranues Coles, under the current circumstances, that would be a very good trade for the Redskins, I think.

And I think Matty's right in a way, getting something out of this Coles fiasco is better than nothing. And I said this in another thread, they may eat a big cap hit now, but next year looks a lot better than it did before.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

This trade might not make sense to most of you, but we're getting rid of a player [B]WHO DOESN'T WANT TO BE HERE[/B]! Thats all that should matter. We're getting a starting WR who is better than any of the receiver we have right now.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

NO THANKYOU.

Lets continue to build our team the right way thru the draft.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Nothing is official yet, including the details on whether or not we will have to take the full hit or if he's going to give the $5M back.

How is Moss a problem?

Everybody always wants draft picks, but will a rookie WR be ready to make the same impact as Moss? Very doubtful.

I'm just glad we're getting something out of this deal.[/QUOTE]

Matt, there were several teams interested in him. They could have used the #9 for one WR and signed lower tiered free agent or started Jacobs as the other WR. Then they could have used the draft pick from Coles to help another area of the team. I am sure with the teams interested that they could have gotten a high pick out of one of them. And now we have to give Moss the big deal that the Jets don't want to give him. Whereas the Jets are getting Coles who's better than Moss at like 2 mil a year while we have to pay the big money for a lesser player. I don't think we are making out on this deal all that well. I know you are saying it's better than nothing, but if Samuels gets a new deal in place then cutting him for nothing would no longer be an option anyway. If he agrees to give up the 5 mil, I will back off a bit but the way this looks now i hate it.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]From Mark Maske's chat running today from 11am to Noon on the WP website. Maske likes a Coles - Moss swap.

Los Angeles, Calif.: CBS Sportsline is reporting that the Skins are trading Coles to the Jets for Santana Moss. Straight up deal, with the Skins eating all of Coles' contract.

All things considered, it doesn't seem like a bad deal if it goes through.

Mark Maske: When the Redskins drafted Rod Gardner, Dan Snyder wanted Santana Moss but Marty Schottenheimer wanted Gardner. That's one where Snyder was right. If they could get Santana Moss for Laveranues Coles, under the current circumstances, that would be a very good trade for the Redskins, I think.

And I think Matty's right in a way, getting something out of this Coles fiasco is better than nothing. And I said this in another thread, they may eat a big cap hit now, but next year looks a lot better than it did before.[/QUOTE]

The Snyder aspect is interesting because it inevitably leads to the question of how much of this was Snyder wanting to finally get Santana Moss

I don't think it's a bad move really. I might have held out a bit longer to see if any other better offers came along but time is a factor with that bonus for Coles set to kick in on Monday I believe

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Nothing is official yet, including the details on whether or not we will have to take the full hit or if he's going to give the $5M back.

How is Moss a problem?

Everybody always wants draft picks, but will a rookie WR be ready to make the same impact as Moss? Very doubtful.

I'm just glad we're getting something out of this deal.[/QUOTE]

When I said Moss is a problem I menat in that he wants the Jets to give him a new big deal. I was not implying that he is a locker room problem or a bad guy.

Re: Moss for Coles?
 

[QUOTE=celts32]Matt, there were several teams interested in him. They could have used the #9 for one WR and signed lower tiered free agent or started Jacobs as the other WR. Then they could have used the draft pick from Coles to help another area of the team. I am sure with the teams interested that they could have gotten a high pick out of one of them. And now we have to give Moss the big deal that the Jets don't want to give him. Whereas the Jets are getting Coles who's better than Moss at like 2 mil a year while we have to pay the big money for a lesser player. I don't think we are making out on this deal all that well. I know you are saying it's better than nothing, but if Samuels gets a new deal in place then cutting him for nothing would no longer be an option anyway. If he agrees to give up the 5 mil, I will back off a bit but the way this looks now i hate it.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps with the Vikes moving up to #7 the Skins saw the writing on the wall that Williams could possibly be gone by the time they pick at #9.

With picking up Moss I think this gives us more flexibility with the #9 pick, we could address another need with it like taking a CB, or we could trade down, taking a WR is no longer a must.