Defensive Parts
 

Last season, the Redskins defense was stellar all season long and finished with a 13th place ranking in the NFL. As we all know, the defense has regressed this season after it showed much progress last season. I haven't been able to pinpoint the exact cause. Is it the scheme, the coverages that are called, or is the problem the personnel? Haslett can't truly be the problem as the defense in the past under his watch has been better.

If the problem is indeed the personnel in the secondary, then what players need to be replaced as a result? It's been said that D. Hall is not a true #1 CB and neither is Josh Wilson. Reed Doughty, while a decent fill in, can only help so much. And Madieu Williams has played more poorly than great although I credit him with a pick 6 against the Vikings weeks back. Brandon Meriweather hasn't played all season and Mike Shanahan should be blamed for signing a junky like Tanard Jackson, knowing full well that he had been in trouble with the NFL before for past offenses.

Next year in the draft or/and free agency, which players do the Redskins target to fix this anemic problem?

Thoughts?

Re: Defensive Parts
 

Personel>coaching>scheme.

1. Orakpo loss was massive. AC as well, but not close to in terms of necessity.
2. Shanny f8cked us with personel decisions of T Jax and going with B Merriweather with the Safety plan.
3. Josh Wilson is the only stater quality CB, and he is a #2 at best. We also really have no effective #3 CB. We have a serious lack of talent in the secondary.

3-4 is not the problem, but Haslett game planning and adjustments certainly are.

Keep the 3-4 scheme, change the DC and add significant starting talent at all secondary positions. Continue to build depth at NT and ILB.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=Chico23231;962177]Personel>coaching>scheme.

1. Orakpo loss was massive. AC as well, but not close to in terms of necessity.
2. Shanny f8cked us with personel decisions of T Jax and going with B Merriweather with the Safety plan.
3. Josh Wilson is the only stater quality CB, and he is a #2 at best. We also really have no effective #3 CB. We have a serious lack of talent in the secondary.

3-4 is not the problem, but Haslett game planning and adjustments certainly are.

Keep the 3-4 scheme, change the DC and add significant starting talent at all secondary positions. Continue to build depth at NT and ILB.[/quote]

Not sure what you mean by Shanahan fckin people with the safety choices. He didnt injure Merriweather and didnt suspend Tjak. We dont know how they would of panned out since they are not on the field.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

I really don't understand how Josh Wilson is still liked by fans, the guy is straight Garbage

Re: Defensive Parts
 

I would really love to know what the plan was for defense if we didn't get the 18mil cap hit on the eve of free agency.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=GoSkins!;962187]I would really love to know what the plan was for defense if we didn't get the 18mil cap hit on the eve of free agency.[/quote]finnegan

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;962184]I really don't understand how Josh Wilson is still liked by fans, the guy is straight Garbage[/quote]

I think he is only signed through next year. His contract is affordable and we cant afford to cut the entire secondary. Bring him back, cut Hall and let the 1 year deals of C Griff and M Williams expire and not resign either. Merriweather has another year left on his deal, so bring him back. We add 2 corners in the draft and free agency. We add another safety through the draft and hopefully sign a quality Free Safety. Cut Gomes as well.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;962184]I really don't understand how Josh Wilson is still liked by fans, the guy is straight Garbage[/quote]

Just like D-Hall. Scrap them both.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

How would people feel about signing Stanford routt who was cut by the chiefs on monday

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=WaldSkins;962194]How would people feel about signing Stanford routt who was cut by the chiefs on monday[/quote]i want it to happen, hopefully he'd come cheaper than he would have been off waivers. i don't think he comes here, but i welcome him.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=WaldSkins;962194]How would people feel about signing Stanford routt who was cut by the chiefs on monday[/quote]

SS said probably not happening. I wouldnt be against bringing him in and cutting D Hall and send a message.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=Chico23231;962196]SS said probably not happening. I wouldnt be against bringing him in and cutting D Hall and send a message.[/quote]

If I was gonna cut anyone it would be Wilson. But we are already thin at the position anyway so we can't afford to lose anyone. Let Wilson and routt start and move dhall to starting fs

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=WaldSkins;962194]How would people feel about signing Stanford routt who was cut by the chiefs on monday[/quote]

What's the deal with him? Cut by two teams in less than a year?

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=Mattyk;962199]What's the deal with him? Cut by two teams in less than a year?[/quote]tourette's bothers some people more that it bothers others

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=Mattyk;962192]Just like D-Hall. Scrap them both.[/quote]

agreed

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=WaldSkins;962197]If I was gonna cut anyone it would be Wilson. But we are already thin at the position anyway so we can't afford to lose anyone. Let Wilson and routt start and move dhall to starting fs[/quote]

We have to get rid of D Hall's contract. Its a must

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=Chico23231;962209]We have to get rid of D Hall's contract. Its a must[/quote]

D Hall will be gone. Don't worry bout that.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/07/stanford-routt-and-his-agent-are-shocked-the-chiefs-cut-him/"]Source (PFT):[/URL]

the Kansas City Chiefs just cut Stanford Routt stating he was taking to long to fully grasp the defense there . . . that being said, he is better than most if not all of our CB's . . . take a shot?? . . . I would!!

Notes:

[quote]Vann McElroy, Routt’s agent, told the Kansas City Star he didn’t see the release coming and isn’t sure why it happened.

“I’m still trying to figure it out,” McElroy said. “It’s a weird situation.”

Chiefs coach Romeo Crennel said that Routt wasn’t getting acclimated to the Chiefs’ defense as quickly as the team had hoped, but McElroy found it surprising that the Chiefs would give up on a player they just gave a $4.2 million signing bonus in March.

“I know they’re 1-7, and they’re looking for reasons . . . I have no clue what happened,” said McElroy. “I’ve got a call in to Scott [Pioli]. I talked to Stanford, and he’s about as surprised and shocked and down as one can be. He doesn’t totally understand it either.”

Although things didn’t work out in Kansas City, Routt had started seven games before the Chiefs cut him, and he was a starter the last two years in Oakland, too. A cornerback who’s good enough to start doesn’t become available in the middle of a season very often. So as big a surprise as it was that the Chiefs cut Routt, it will be an even bigger surprise if he remains unemployed for long.[/quote]

Thoughts??

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=Chico23231;962209]We have to get rid of D Hall's contract. Its a must[/quote]
NO worries...probably not the best of years to have an attitude problem, substandard performance and a......Fat contract.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;962242][URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/07/stanford-routt-and-his-agent-are-shocked-the-chiefs-cut-him/"]Source (PFT):[/URL]

the Kansas City Chiefs just cut Stanford Routt stating he was taking to long to fully grasp the defense there . . . that being said, he is better than most if not all of our CB's . . . take a shot?? . . . I would!!

Notes:



Thoughts??[/quote]

yes lets get him

Re: Defensive Parts
 

I don't see any downside to signing Routt.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;962184]I really don't understand how Josh Wilson is still liked by fans, the guy is straight Garbage[/quote]
I don't either. He makes DHall look all pro to me. All his pass interference calls have come in the corner of the end zone that I sit in. I can see the whole play develop and I can see it in his eyes as he is running with the receiver. I start pointing to him to turn around knowing full well he is going to interfere instead of turning around and making the play. I just don't understand it. He is right there in position to make a play but never turns around and chooses to molest the receivers.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

It's funny how it took almost 4 years for most of you to realize that Hall was a terrible signing and that he sucks.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;962275]It's funny how it took almost 4 years for most of you to realize that Hall was a terrible signing and that he sucks.[/quote]

I've been saying that all along... But noooo, some people insisted he was a modern day Prime Time. I will promise you one thing tho, put him on any other team and he will be.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;962253]I don't see any downside to signing Routt.[/quote]

I don't see much upside to what profootballfocus.com calls "one of the worst starting CBs in the NFL"

Re: Defensive Parts
 

Hall is exactly like prime time. Makes a few picks that make him look good, is fast, lazy, runs his mouth, and he's over rated. Prime time = hall < green

[QUOTE=Pigskins;962306]Hall is exactly like prime time. Makes a few picks that make him look good, is fast, lazy, runs his mouth, and he's over rated. Prime time = hall < green[/QUOTE]

If your referring to deion Sanders, that's a wrong statement. Sanders is the best CB to ever play the game , teams literally feared throwing his way.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;962308]If your referring to deion Sanders, that's a wrong statement. Sanders is the best CB to ever play the game , teams literally feared throwing his way.[/quote]

Deion was terrible!!!!! Most over rated to ever play the game. Green was way better. Deion would never make a tackle. Green actually had more pick then Deion and way more tackles. Deion was only good at running his mouth, put a big mouth in Dallas and he will make headlines.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

Darrell green was by far a better corner than Deion

Re: Defensive Parts
 

If I were Mike Shanahan, I would trade D. Hall and our second round pick for a mid round selection in the 1st round and draft Xavier Rhodes from Florida State. The guy can cover in man to man coverage well and he's big and tall. I would keep Josh Wilson but would be willing to upgrade if I can find a CB in the third round worthy of taking his place with the hopes that Chase Minnefield and Richard Crawford can contribute.

I love the Maryland Terps, but I would say goodbye to Madieu Williams and maybe Tanard Jackson too. What guarantee is there that Jackson won't blow it yet again and disappoint for his failure to stop using illegal substances? I would make a trade for a younger veteran free safety. As far as SS, I'd be willing to keep Brandon Meriweather but would draft a safety on the strong side.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

Why would anyone trade for one of the worst corners in the league, especially with his contract?

[QUOTE=Pigskins;962312]Deion was terrible!!!!! Most over rated to ever play the game. Green was way better. Deion would never make a tackle. Green actually had more pick then Deion and way more tackles. Deion was only good at running his mouth, put a big mouth in Dallas and he will make headlines.[/QUOTE]

Cover corner? Best ever bro and I don't even like the guy. Yes D Green is also in that conversation

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;962275]It's funny how it took almost 4 years for most of you to realize that Hall was a terrible signing and that he sucks.[/quote]

the contract was typical bullshit dan snyder/vinny run the franchise into the ground move, but he wasnt this bad when Los was here. They complimented each other well. He was at least average then, certainly not worth the money he was being paid.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

I don't agree with his punk antics but Hall is not the worst corner in the league. He has trouble on crossing routes, but most db's do. Id take him on a go rt vs Megatron over a whole bunch of others in the NFL. Oh and btw his ass is on the field every Sunday!! That's right he actually fn plays hard and don't get hurt ever damn year. Hell we got idiots that cant even get out of their own way during pre-game warm ups.

[QUOTE=CrustyRedskin;962352]I don't agree with his punk antics but Hall is not the worst corner in the league. He has trouble on crossing routes, but most db's do. Id take him on a go rt vs Megatron over a whole bunch of others in the NFL. Oh and btw his ass is on the field every Sunday!! That's right he actually fn plays hard and don't get hurt ever damn year. Hell we got idiots that cant even get out of their own way during pre-game warm ups.[/QUOTE]

I agree, he's not great but he's better than that clown Wilson

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=REDSKINS4ever;962164][B]Last season, the Redskins defense was stellar all season long and finished with a 13th place ranking in the NFL[/B]. As we all know, the defense has regressed this season after it showed much progress last season. I haven't been able to pinpoint the exact cause. Is it the scheme, the coverages that are called, or is the problem the personnel? Haslett can't truly be the problem as the defense in the past under his watch has been better.

If the problem is indeed the personnel in the secondary, then what players need to be replaced as a result? It's been said that D. Hall is not a true #1 CB and neither is Josh Wilson. Reed Doughty, while a decent fill in, can only help so much. And Madieu Williams has played more poorly than great although I credit him with a pick 6 against the Vikings weeks back. Brandon Meriweather hasn't played all season and Mike Shanahan should be blamed for signing a junky like Tanard Jackson, knowing full well that he had been in trouble with the NFL before for past offenses.

Next year in the draft or/and free agency, which players do the Redskins target to fix this anemic problem?

Thoughts?[/quote]

how does a defense that played stellar last year end up ranked 13th? basically middle of the pack, and that what i rememeber from last year. this team is and has been filled with mediocre players for a while now. even when we were in the 4-3 we were still middle of the pack. a stellar defense is one that creates its own points and can get to the qb, we haven't had that here for some time now.

is shanny to blame for where we are player wise? i think yes and no. while he has been here for almost 3 years now, thats not a lot of time to enact a culture change and completely retool the roster. especially when we didnt have all of our draft picks and then the 18 mil fine we got slapped with this year. and to be fair some of that blame fails on shanny too, the mcnabb trade the hanyesworth handeling. but at the end of the day he can only go after players that are available and use the resources at his disposal.

i think shanny has another year to show more improvement, but i think haslett could and should lose his job by the end of this season if no improvement is shown. from the outside looking in it seems like he really doesnt understand the ebb and flow of the 3-4. and his biggest flaw is not being able to make in game adjustments. unless there is marketable improvement in the last half of the season firing haslett is a no brainer.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=mlmdub130;962360]how does a defense that played stellar last year end up ranked 13th? basically middle of the pack, and that what i rememeber from last year. this team is and has been filled with mediocre players for a while now. even when we were in the 4-3 we were still middle of the pack. a stellar defense is one that creates its own points and can get to the qb, we haven't had that here for some time now.

is shanny to blame for where we are player wise? i think yes and no. while he has been here for almost 3 years now, thats not a lot of time to enact a culture change and completely retool the roster. especially when we didnt have all of our draft picks and then the 18 mil fine we got slapped with this year. and to be fair some of that blame fails on shanny too, the mcnabb trade the hanyesworth handeling. but at the end of the day he can only go after players that are available and use the resources at his disposal.

i think shanny has another year to show more improvement, but i think haslett could and should lose his job by the end of this season if no improvement is shown. from the outside looking in it seems like he really doesnt understand the ebb and flow of the 3-4. and his biggest flaw is not being able to make in game adjustments. unless there is marketable improvement in the last half of the season firing haslett is a no brainer.[/quote]

By what I meant by stellar was the sudden improvement from 2010 to 2011. Maybe stellar wasn't totally the right word to use, but this defense did get turnovers and being on the other side of 16th ranked is a little beyond the middle of the pack. Let us remember that when the Redskins faced the NY Midgets in NY last year in week 15, the Redskins entered that game ranked 10th in the league in total defense.

Shanahan is not without fault, but I view his switching to a 3-4 as a needless move like a lot of Redskins fans do. But I like the 3-4 defense now and I would prefer Kerrigan and Orakpo as OLBs instead of DEs. I think the defensive front is decent but the lack of rush without Carriker and B. Orakpo is hurting the overall defense.


If the Redskins don't start hustling more within the defensive secondary and keep getting beat consistently then Haslett will indeed be gone. Even if they somehow improve I don't see them making that much more improvement. Jarvis Jenkins is not having an impact. Barry Cofield is not a conventional NT, but he's solid and Stephen Bowen is solid. The LB corps are okay but London Fletcher's age is starting to show and there's no telling how much longer he can play. I'm not even going to emphasize the secondary. This defensive unit won't be any better than 23rd or 22nd ranked for the remainder of the year. If they improve, that will be the best that they'll be able to do based on what we've seen in the first 9 games. But if they can start creating more turnovers and get the ball back in the hands of the offense then the Redskins can run the table and perhaps end up 10-6.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=Mattyk;962343]Why would anyone trade for one of the worst corners in the league, especially with his contract?[/quote]

Because Hall was just an all pro pro two years ago. It's a trade along with our 2nd round pick that Shanahan might be able to sell some team. Most teams would probably so no. But it would be worth a try.

If the Redskins can hold on to the second round choice and draft a CB like Vernon Dean than that would be okay too.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

[quote=Pigskins;962313]Darrell green was by far a better corner than Deion[/quote]

I second that, Green could also cover much taller players such as Irvin, Moss, Rice, etc. Deion got the fame because he was flashy.

Re: Defensive Parts
 

deion was a good all around athlete... and thats good for the position and for punt returning which when he was young was another one of his claims to fame.. not a bad player... green all day but deion bashing is un-needed the guy had a pretty decent career and was exciting to watch