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ST21 03-04-2005 11:06 AM

Small WR
 
OK....DP is a good wideout, but was only the 3rd best WR on his team, and were replacing him with...Rod Garner, we need 1 big time impact, player....and I mean Big we need a big physical player that can out jump a DB in the Red Zone, I hear P. Burress is on his way to Minn., that would be great because B. Edwards would be available and he would be what we need to get over the top

skin4Life28 03-04-2005 11:19 AM

Re: Small WR
 
Yeah Burress more than likely will be going to Minn. So that definetly gives us a shot at either Braylon Edwards or Mike Williams. I am torn on who I want they are both going to be elite recievers in the league. So, if we get either one I will be happy with that. DP is a great siginging on terms of exp. and his knowledge of the game.

celts32 03-04-2005 11:20 AM

Re: Small WR
 
I think we would all love to see Plax end up with the Vikes which should pave the way for the Skins to get Williams or Edwards at #9, but so far the Vikes don't seem interested in Burress. Everything I keep reading says that Plax & his agent are contacting the Vikings becasue he wants to play there. It's not clear at this point if the Vikings want him though.

Daseal 03-04-2005 11:22 AM

Re: Small WR
 
Vikings are going D. JOhnson in the draft. No doubt in my mind.

Redskins_P 03-04-2005 11:25 AM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=Daseal]Vikings are going D. JOhnson in the draft. No doubt in my mind.[/QUOTE]


Not only that, but they're on the verge of signing Plax. So, hopefully we'll be able to draft M.Williams.

skins052bgr8 03-04-2005 11:32 AM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=wewhite3]OK....DP is a good wideout, but was only the 3rd best WR on his team, and were replacing him with...Rod Garner, we need 1 big time impact, player....and I mean Big we need a big physical player that can out jump a DB in the Red Zone, I hear P. Burress is on his way to Minn., that would be great because B. Edwards would be available and he would be what we need to get over the top[/QUOTE]


Though he was the third receiver on his team last year, look at his #'s compared to our # 1 guy last year. Not sure on exact #'s but fairly close. Patten was able to get down field also by his 18.5 yards per catch average.

Coles 90 catches, 960 yards and 1 TD

Patten 44 catches 800 yards and 7 TDS

Who had a more productive year and how many games did we lose by less than 7 sure would have liked to have had pattens six other TDS. Not all coles fault though.

No Question he is not our # 1 receiver, but very reliable. From what I understand about Edwards is he could be another Gardner, can make some spectacular catches, but sometimes those ones between the numbers casts some doubt in his mind and he will drop them.

NYCSkin 03-04-2005 11:37 AM

Re: Small WR
 
Good pickup. Professional, speedy receiver, who plays special teams (unlike McCants). Was hurt last year, but always makes plays when on the field (unlike Gardner aka 50/50).

gortiz 03-04-2005 11:44 AM

Gibbs Press Conf @ 11
 
Joe just had a press conference and addressed the WR"s size this year. He said, and I quote "size is not important at WR" then he referenced the Smurfs and Gary Clark as well.

I agree with him, especially if he is calling a good game and has the ground attack going. Guys are going to get open wether they are 5'10 or 6'5.

Hines Ward, Marvin H, Torry Holt are all small guys...who is better then them right now?

MTK 03-04-2005 11:51 AM

Re: Small WR
 
I said it in another thread that I think this notion that you "need" a big WR isn't true.

Look at the Rams, Holt and Bruce aren't huge guys. Look at the Colts, they don't have any big WR's.

We had Rod Gardner for the last 4 years and he's considered a big possession type, where did that get us?

That being said I'd still like to see us grab Mike Williams, not just for his size but his overall talent and ability.

PSUskinsfan11 03-04-2005 11:54 AM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=Daseal]Vikings are going D. JOhnson in the draft. No doubt in my mind.[/QUOTE]

They are going to have some sick linebackers in a few years if they take Derrick Johnson. E.J. Henderson, D. Thomas, D. Johnson, and N. Harris, that is a great group of young LB's. I hope they do take him because I would rather see him there then Dallas!!!!

gortiz 03-04-2005 11:56 AM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I said it in another thread that I think this notion that you "need" a big WR isn't true.

Look at the Rams, Holt and Bruce aren't huge guys. Look at the Colts, they don't have any big WR's.

We had Rod Gardner for the last 4 years and he's considered a big possession type, where did that get us?

That being said I'd still like to see us grab Mike Williams, not just for his size but his overall talent and ability.[/QUOTE]

I agree, plus we need help on O not D! MIke Wiliams seems to be rare talent that you can't pass up on. Is 6'5 accurate? that is sick. I think we did that with Sean Taylor last year...he was to rare of talent to not take a chance on. He will compliment who ever is across from him, and I think he will make an impact by the end of season.

One thing we can't do though is sleep on T. jacobs!!!

celts32 03-04-2005 12:02 PM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Not only that, but they're on the verge of signing Plax. So, hopefully we'll be able to draft M.Williams.[/QUOTE]

Do you have any info that they are on the verge of signing Plax or is that just a guess? Every article I read today from Minnesotta papers indicates that the interst in Plax being on the Vikes is all from Plax's side so far.

TheMalcolmConnection 03-04-2005 12:04 PM

Re: Small WR
 
I would love to see us get Mike Williams as well. With the signing of Patten, taking Williams at #1 won't seem as much of a gamble since we have other pretty damn good receivers backing him up in case he doesn't pan out.

celts32 03-04-2005 12:10 PM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I said it in another thread that I think this notion that you "need" a big WR isn't true.

Look at the Rams, Holt and Bruce aren't huge guys. Look at the Colts, they don't have any big WR's.

We had Rod Gardner for the last 4 years and he's considered a big possession type, where did that get us?

That being said I'd still like to see us grab Mike Williams, not just for his size but his overall talent and ability.[/QUOTE]

This is true, but those are also two teams that play in a dome and play more of a speed offensive game. You can definitely win with smaller WR's if they are good enough, but having a big target definitely helps you out if you are a little lacking in the QB area. Don't you think it would help Ramsey a lot to know that he has a WR that can outfight the DB's for a less than perfect pass?

Also is Holt small? I don't have his bio in front of me but he looks kind of lanky to me. That's not important though.

Redskins_P 03-04-2005 12:15 PM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=celts32]Do you have any info that they are on the verge of signing Plax or is that just a guess? Every article I read today from Minnesotta papers indicates that the interst in Plax being on the Vikes is all from Plax's side so far.[/QUOTE]


You're probably right. And it wasn't a guess....more like wishful thinking.

celts32 03-04-2005 12:19 PM

Re: Small WR
 
That same wishful thinking is what has me reading Minnesotta newspapers in the first place!

Defensewins 03-04-2005 12:25 PM

Re: Small WR
 
This whole talk about a team has to have a big WR is overated. Look at the superbowl MVP, 5' 9'" in his cleats. The Patriots Wr's are all small except for one.

Big C 03-04-2005 12:25 PM

Re: Small WR
 
he wasnt hurt last year, he played all 16 games. branch was hurt last year, thus he started 11 games. the year before that he got injured.

Skinsfanforlife 03-04-2005 12:31 PM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=skins052bgr8]Though he was the third receiver on his team last year, look at his #'s compared to our # 1 guy last year. Not sure on exact #'s but fairly close. Patten was able to get down field also by his 18.5 yards per catch average.

Coles 90 catches, 960 yards and 1 TD

Patten 44 catches 800 yards and 7 TDS

Who had a more productive year and how many games did we lose by less than 7 sure would have liked to have had pattens six other TDS. Not all coles fault though.

No Question he is not our # 1 receiver, but very reliable. From what I understand about Edwards is he could be another Gardner, can make some spectacular catches, but sometimes those ones between the numbers casts some doubt in his mind and he will drop them.[/QUOTE]

I agree with all this, But Patten had Brady AND Coles had Burrnel who sucked and Ramsey who played well but he no Brady "YET"

Patten is not a # 1 but he a lot closer to a #1 WR then he is to a #3 WR.

Monksdown 03-04-2005 12:40 PM

Re: Small WR
 
I think that the popular misconception is that tall is good. In fact, some people openly trade tall for more important things. Like route running, run blocking, and catching(to a degree). Speed is very important, but to an extent, it's very similar to height, in that it creates separation. Height creates separation, if only at the point of reception. Speed generates openings for less accurate quarterbacks. I think that speed is something that we should focus more on because of Patrick's is more strength than touch.

The reason we like to reach for the taller receivers is because we cant get out of our heads how good Randy Moss and Terrell Owens are. There are two of them, and a shit load of teams. So I would encourage us to not trade important characteristics, like route running, for size. Timing, and practice will be the key to Patrick's success. Not playing 500 with the ball, which is not Joe Gibb's style anyway.

In conclusion, tall helps. That is all. And i would rather see David Patten run a precise 12 yard out with the ball waiting for him when he turns, than see Plaxico win a jump ball competition 35 yards down the field. Because I believe in consistency, which route running and precision provide.

Monksdown 03-04-2005 12:58 PM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=celts32]I think we would all love to see Plax end up with the Vikes which should pave the way for the Skins to get Williams or Edwards at #9, but so far the Vikes don't seem interested in Burress. Everything I keep reading says that Plax & his agent are contacting the Vikings becasue he wants to play there. It's not clear at this point if the Vikings want him though.[/QUOTE]
Why would the vikings trade one tall, pain in the ass, poor attitude receiver for another?

davy 03-04-2005 12:59 PM

Re: Small WR
 
From what I have read it seems as though Boldin is more likely than Burress to end up in Minnesota.

"Cardinals' officials instigated talks with the Vikings regarding a proposed trade that would send wide receiver Anquan Boldin to Minnesota in exchange for running back Michael Bennett and a second-round draft pick, according to KFAN radio, the Vikings' flagship station."

diehardskin2982 03-04-2005 12:59 PM

Re: Small WR
 
I stated earlier that Patten would be a target of the skins, he knows how to win and he's a good character. A gibbs type player all the way. We will be upgraded all around the board, we may not make a big splash with big names, but well get some gems.

I LOVE THE REDSKINS 03-04-2005 01:01 PM

Re: Small WR
 
will someone send me a messaqge telling me how to make my own postings.........thanks

celts32 03-04-2005 01:29 PM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=Monksdown]Why would the vikings trade one tall, pain in the ass, poor attitude receiver for another?[/QUOTE]

To answer you they probably won't. I just want to see them add any quality WR that will keep them from drafting Williams at #7.

I am a little surprised at the lack of interest in Plax though. it's not like he is that bad a guy.

KLHJ2 03-04-2005 01:41 PM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=celts32]To answer you they probably won't. I just want to see them add any quality WR that will keep them from drafting Williams at #7.

I am a little surprised at the lack of interest in Plax though. it's not like he is that bad a guy.[/QUOTE]

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but it might be because he wasn't that productive after comming off of his injury last season.

jdlea 03-04-2005 02:03 PM

Re: Small WR
 
I love the pickup of David Patten. I think these are the kind of guys the Skins need to go after. Clearly, if Coles is not going to return, they need a number one, but I'm tired of all of these offseasons where we sign all the biggest names. You can't have 24 team captains (I'm including P's and K's in case you're wondering about 24). We can't have 24 guys who are all going to the Pro Bowl. We need humble guys who will accept a role where they don't have to be the most productive player on the team. I think this will be a great pickup for the Skins.

FRPLG 03-04-2005 02:30 PM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I said it in another thread that I think this notion that you "need" a big WR isn't true.

Look at the Rams, Holt and Bruce aren't huge guys. Look at the Colts, they don't have any big WR's.

We had Rod Gardner for the last 4 years and he's considered a big possession type, where did that get us?

That being said I'd still like to see us grab Mike Williams, not just for his size but his overall talent and ability.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I am somewhat concerned with Williams' speed but he compares favorably to someone TO. Saying he was playmaker at USC is an understatement and I really see him as the biggest value in the draft this year. This guy is going to be off the board no earlier than 7 and I think will end up being the biggest impact player of the class. Every year there is at least one guy who slips for some silly reason and every team ends up kicking themselves for passing on him. Guys like Moss, Sapp, Roy Williams, Roethlisberger,Freeney,Tomlinson,Culpepper,Gonzalez...the list goes on forever of guys who in hindsight should have gone higher...much higher. Williams is the real deal.

ChounsMan 03-04-2005 02:33 PM

Re: Small WR
 
DP is a great signing :biggthump

Bravo to the front office!!!

Defensewins 03-04-2005 02:52 PM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=FRPLG]I agree. I am somewhat concerned with Williams' speed but he compares favorably to someone TO. Saying he was playmaker at USC is an understatement and I really see him as the biggest value in the draft this year. This guy is going to be off the board no earlier than 7 and I think will end up being the biggest impact player of the class. Every year there is at least one guy who slips for some silly reason and every team ends up kicking themselves for passing on him. Guys like Moss, Sapp, Roy Williams, Roethlisberger,Freeney,Tomlinson,Culpepper,Gonzalez...the list goes on forever of guys who in hindsight should have gone higher...much higher. Williams is the real deal.[/QUOTE]

The thing that worries me about Williams is USC is in the PAC 10. Not traditionally the mecca of great defenses. You are only as good as the competition you play against. College defenses and d-backs are already noticeably weaker than in the NFL, add to that the Pac 10 factor. If USC played the Miami's, Florida State's and top SEC teams every year than I would feel like you do about Williams.

offiss 03-04-2005 03:27 PM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=celts32]This is true, but those are also two teams that play in a dome and play more of a speed offensive game. You can definitely win with smaller WR's if they are good enough, but having a big target definitely helps you out if you are a little lacking in the QB area. Don't you think it would help Ramsey a lot to know that he has a WR that can outfight the DB's for a less than perfect pass?

Also is Holt small? I don't have his bio in front of me but he looks kind of lanky to me. That's not important though.[/QUOTE]


Hey Celt's I didn't know you live in hacketstown? I live about 15 or 20 minutes from you in lake hopatcong small world.


I also agree on having that big reciever not that we couldn't win without one, but it seem's to me that Ramsey likes the big guy's he had a lot of success with McCant's in fact it's safe to say he was his favorite reciever that's why it was kind of ironic that Gibb's didn't get him on the field, there are some very big reciever's in this draft I would love to really be able to break down some game film on a few of these guy's to really be able to gauge their talent, one thing I do know is William's has a phenomonal set of hand's, in fact he's a guy who need's only 1 hand to catch the ball couple that with his size and he could be a very unique and dominating force in the NFL.

celts32 03-04-2005 03:53 PM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=offiss]Hey Celt's I didn't know you live in hacketstown? I live about 15 or 20 minutes from you in lake hopatcong small world.


I also agree on having that big reciever not that we couldn't win without one, but it seem's to me that Ramsey likes the big guy's he had a lot of success with McCant's in fact it's safe to say he was his favorite reciever that's why it was kind of ironic that Gibb's didn't get him on the field, there are some very big reciever's in this draft I would love to really be able to break down some game film on a few of these guy's to really be able to gauge their talent, one thing I do know is William's has a phenomonal set of hand's, in fact he's a guy who need's only 1 hand to catch the ball couple that with his size and he could be a very unique and dominating force in the NFL.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I noticed you were from Hopatcong. There are a few North Jersey guys on this site I think. I am originally from Philly but I have lived in Hackettstown for about 4 years. My wife is from NJ so I agreed to move up here. I went from Birds country to big blue country...

I just think a big WR makes it easier on a QB. The WR has to be good also, not just big. Good point about Ramsey liking McCants best. he clearly had a good raport with Darnerian, and maybe that's becasue Ramsey was confident in being able to hit that big frame without the pressure to be perfect.

I don't think anyone is trying to say that you can't win with small WR's, just that a physically dominating WR can sometimes bail out a QB where a smaller guy can't.

itvnetop 03-04-2005 05:30 PM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=Defensewins]The thing that worries me about Williams is USC is in the PAC 10. Not traditionally the mecca of great defenses. You are only as good as the competition you play against. College defenses and d-backs are already noticeably weaker than in the NFL, add to that the Pac 10 factor. If USC played the Miami's, Florida State's and top SEC teams every year than I would feel like you do about Williams.[/QUOTE]

Oh man... i thought i would have only seen this logic in the national championship argument. But just like that argument, it doesn't hold water when it comes to the individual player. SC has never had a weak out of conference schedule b/c of the perception of the Pac-10... in fact, SC had the toughest rated schedule in the land during Mike's first year, so you can't say he didn't face top-notch college defenders. He faced the likes of Carlos Rogers, Marlin Jackson, Terence Newman, Marcus Trufant, and Ricky Manning Jr. to name a few. If you're only as good as the competition you face, I guess BMW is pretty damn good.

You can say all you want about bad Pac-10 defenses (look at the SEC, who only plays itself- they rarely ever schedule worth out-of-conference games away b/c they lose when they do... the only argument the SEC has is the "we should be able to schedule Div. 2AA Sisters of the Poor U because everyone in our own conference is so much better than the entire country). Regardless of how the Pac's doing, SC plays a tough schedule every year due to the OOC and bowl games.

Michigan, Oklahoma, Iowa, and Auburn (twice) all had fans who questioned the legitimacy of SC b/c of "weak" Pac-10 play before playing the Trojans the past few seasons. The only fans who respected us were VA-Tech's. I don't mean to sound arrogant (Lord knows college ball is cyclical and we're not going to be on top forever... just ask Canesfan hehehe- j/k bro), but I just get irked when the legitimacy of our program or players is questioned due to being a part of the Pac-10.

That Guy 03-04-2005 05:36 PM

Re: Small WR
 
if i were the cards i wouldnt trade boldin for bennet... not with the upcoming draft class of rbs... though they do need a QB much more.

monk81 03-04-2005 05:39 PM

Re: Gibbs Press Conf @ 11
 
[QUOTE=gortiz]Joe just had a press conference and addressed the WR"s size this year. He said, and I quote "size is not important at WR" then he referenced the Smurfs and Gary Clark as well.

I agree with him, especially if he is calling a good game and has the ground attack going. Guys are going to get open wether they are 5'10 or 6'5.

Hines Ward, Marvin H, Torry Holt are all small guys...who is better then them right now?[/QUOTE]

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH Happy Memories...........the Smurfs..........

AndySkinUK 03-04-2005 05:43 PM

Re: Small WR
 
As long as they catch the ball they can be 4ft 10 or 6ft 10 for all i care.

Clark, Sanders and Monk were a great mix of hit, strength and speed, but all 3 had great hands and that is why they were so good.

Daseal 03-04-2005 05:43 PM

Re: Small WR
 
[quote]
I agree with him, especially if he is calling a good game[/quote]

That's yet to be seen since 15 years ago. Lets get some size.

monk81 03-04-2005 06:02 PM

Re: Small WR
 
What about the Titans...........I heard they are looking at WR, and the Bucs too.......

I hope they will leave a WR for us.......but most mocks have us going defense in the draft....'course that's just speculation too....

offiss 03-04-2005 06:11 PM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=monk81]What about the Titans...........I heard they are looking at WR, and the Bucs too.......

I hope they will leave a WR for us.......but most mocks have us going defense in the draft....'course that's just speculation too....[/QUOTE]


I heard an interview with Fisher and apparently their new coordinator from usc is pushing for offense, but I had the feeling listening to Fisher his feeling was defense, that one could go either way.

monk81 03-04-2005 06:16 PM

Re: Small WR
 
[QUOTE=I LOVE THE REDSKINS]will someone send me a messaqge telling me how to make my own postings.........thanks[/QUOTE]

At the top of the Forum left hand side, click NEW THREAD............


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