Salary cap- After Coles release
 

Alright, well looking at it with all the great reports Crazy Canuck set up, the post-release salary cap should look something like this

SUMMARY
2005 Cap Savings: $9054
Less 2005 Cap Spending: -$8647
New Cap Limit: $500K
Replaced players in top 51: $3569

TOTAL 2005 SAVINGS (SINCE 2/7): $4476

Cap Room (2/7): $3291

CURRENT CAP ROOM (3/3): $7767

NEW

Coles would be earnings: $3.357
Less: Release fee: $9.286
_____
NEW CAP ROOM $1.838 (million)

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

so we have 1.8 million in cap room left. is that enough to resign smoot?

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

Also, now that we are putting a real emphasis on the Rod Gardner trade, that should allow us a little more cap room .
(in millions)
$1.838
Add: Gardner's would be earnings: $2.107
Less: Gardner's release/trade fee $ .660
______
Cap AFTER Gardner's release/trade $3.285


I think the Skins are going to be desparate to push this deal through, since they now have to sign Santana Moss and try to sign Smoot.

BTW, in the Washington Times it said something about us possibly giving Santana Moss a big contract. If we do I have to admit that I will be kind of irked, because (1) that cap would be f***ed this year, and (2) we would be giving an outsider huge money to come in again w/o looking at our own "core group" of guys. Personally, anything better than the contract given to Patton would really piss me off!

Speaking of Patton!!!! His cap hit needs to be added to my figures!!!! Wish I knew how to calculate it: CANUCK, PLEASE HELP!!!

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

[QUOTE=mooby]so we have 1.8 million in cap room left. is that enough to resign smoot?[/QUOTE]

Not to mention the rookie pool? How do you sign a mike williams with that? What about MOss?

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

We got screwed on this trade. Plain and simple. The money we lose for to get a lesser player is unreal. I'm happy to have Moss, but not at this price. he isnt even worthy of a "Big Contract".

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

Yeah if those figures are right we are f*cked. That Coles trade, it turns out, was possibly the dumbest move ever made. How is it possible that we made a move for a worse WR and it cost us $6M against the cap and cost us Smoot most likely. All this talk about preserving the core has been bullshit apparently, because we could have resigned Smoot and Pierce most likely had we not traded Coles away. Unbelievable. Only the Skins could make such a deal.

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

I found this on extremeskins, it's a nice analysis of Moss from a pretty knowledgeable and unbiased Jets fan, take a look:


Skins Fans:

Needless to say, as a Jets fan, I'm thrilled with the trade. The Skins seemingly made the best of a bad situation and cut their losses in the face of an unforeseen lose-lose situation. And the Jets were the beneficiary who were in the right place at the right time -- the guy with a bucket of overpriced umbrellas in Central Park when an unexpected T-storm pours down.

Am I a bit uneasy welcoming a malcontent with a bad toe? Absolutely. But obviously, you can't pass up the opportunity to swap a better WR locked up for 5 years (who also has chemisty with your QB), in exchange for a talented but more limited WR who the GM was prepared to let walk in 1 year.

But the purpose of this thread isn't to break down a trade which has already been analyzed ad nauseam. Instead, it's to provide you with a sliver of insight into your brand new WR. I previously posted some of these points below, but since it was buried in a thread on another topic, here it is again.

After watching every snap of Moss's career, the following is my best objective overview of Santana's game. All in all, I think Skins fans will be satisfied with Moss -- provided expectations are appropriately aligned. Hopefully, this will help you achieve that objective.


-- Moss endured the conservative Paul Hackett era, which did not completely leverage Moss's skills. As a result, if Gibbs takes a more aggressive approach to play-calling and truly makes it a focus to get the ball in Moss's hands, it's conceivable the Skins could find themselves with player who is more talented than he has previously shown.

-- Moss is a good character guy. He's relatively mellow and low key off the field, and he's a good teammate with a level-headed approach. He won't pout or say the wrong thing to the media, but don't expect a spirited leader either.

-- His hands are definitely solid, though he's not immune to a bad drop on occasion. His footwork around the sidelines is superb, and he can tip toe in bounds or drag the feet in impressive fashion.

-- Given his size, he's also a much better redzone threat than you might expect, mostly due to quickness and ability to separate on goal line routes. His 10 TDs in 2003 was a testament to his ability, and much red zone success came on slants and from the slot. Here, he'll be an immediate upgrade over Coles who historically struggled to score TDs.

-- I've never felt Moss's chemistry with Pennington was ever truly on point. Chad throws a soft ball, and on occassions when it floats, he's better served by a WR who squares up to the ball more aggressively and will snare it in traffic. This was a liability at times, as Moss is tentative in traffic and sometimes shows alligator arms or hear footsteps.

-- Moss is an adequate blocker downfield. His size/strength obviously prevent this from being a strength, though it never proved to be a liability either.

-- He had been an outstanding PR, but last season he tailed off significantly and was actually replaced by McCareins. He was reinserted during the playoffs and excelled. Can be a home run hitter if he finds a hole or crease. However, the reason he was yanked was that he often lacked aggressiveness, standing and waiting for coverage to reach him before trying to force a miss, which often resulted in little or no gain.

-- As Skins fans learned with Morton, his having Westhoff as a ST coach was a huge factor in his success that was tough to duplicate. It's not unreasonable to think that Moss could find it harder without Westfhoff as well - but I wouldn't subscribe to that theory. The reason is the gap in talent between Moss and Morton is substantial, and while Moss did benefit from great blocking too, unlike a KR behind a wall, he was also forced to create a great deal on his own.

-- While on PR duties, don't be alarmed the first couple of times Moss lets a ball take an awkward bounce and then dangerously plucks it from the air while running, rather than letting it settle and get downed. It's frightening to watch, but he did this frequently, and I'm sure I've never seen him fumble or lose the handle while doing so.

-- Tough, Moss is not. He drew the ire of many fans by routinely dancing out of bounds after catches, rather than fighting for extra yards. He once explained that he does this because he doesn't want to give opponents the opportunity to land cheap shot. This caused Moss to earn the unfortunate nickname, "Sideline Santana." It stuck.

-- He's got great speed as you'd expect, but more impressive is his incredible burst from a standing position and explosive acceleration (thus success on PRs and sometimes screens). It's jaw dropping at times and he can appear to be playing at another speed.

-- Health can be an issue with Moss. It's not so much that he doesn't hold up to the pounding or that he gets dinged with contact injuries -- he's actually more durable in that respect than I thought he'd be. Instead, he suffers minor tweaks (hammies, etc.) that can put him on the shelf here or there.

-- Moss's favorite move in the open field is the spin move - not just pivoting with a defender to his back, but a full 270 or 360. Due to his quickness, this works more often than you'd expect and he uses it quite a bit.

-- In contrast to his low key demeanor, Moss is quick to celebrate first downs or big catches - perhaps too quick (is it the U in him?). Celebration move is the same: spinning the ball on the ground with a flick of the wrist (works best on turf), and on TDs, he'll also quickly unbuckle the chin strap.

-- After watching much of Moss, it seems evident that he'll never be a true #1 WR. What he does have is the potential to be an exceptional #2 if paired with a solid possession WR. Maybe better than what Harper was to Irvin, but not quite what Clark was to Monk -- a Swann to Stallworth, if you will?

That's about it on the Moss tidbits. I'll miss him as a Jet and I'm curious as to what he would've done under Heimerdinger as the new OC. But it's time for Coles to come back to the team and QB that first put him on the map. Though I think the Jets made out well here, hopefully both teams will be better off than they would've been had they simply stayed put. I sense that will prove to be the case.

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

After reading that, overall, I am excited to watch Moss play. I don't mind a receiver being quick to get out of bounce so as long as he at least gets the first down; sometimes fighting for more yards can get ya in trouble!

As long as he stays relatively healthy, I personally think this is pretty good for us.

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

One of the smartest WR's in the league in my mind is Torry Holt. Just watch the way he plays, you rarely see him fighting for yards, in fact most of the time he ducks away from contact and goes down before he's hit.

Don't get me wrong I love a guy who will fight for yards, but fighting for yards can result in fumbles and injuries.

When you're the size of someone like Moss, avoiding contact is a smart thing to do.

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

know we need our big possession reciever

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

All the Colts receivers do exactly the same thing, either get down or get out of bounds asap.

Make the catch, move the chains but don't take risks by struggling for 1 or 2 more yards and absorbing a hit that can result in a fumble.

Football smarts in my opinion.

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

I figure we were $6.8M under the cap before the Coles trade. So now I'd say we're less than $1M under the cap

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]One of the smartest WR's in the league in my mind is Torry Holt. Just watch the way he plays, you rarely see him fighting for yards, in fact most of the time he ducks away from contact and goes down before he's hit.

Don't get me wrong I love a guy who will fight for yards, but fighting for yards can result in fumbles and injuries.

When you're the size of someone like Moss, avoiding contact is a smart thing to do.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention it pisses the defensive guys running after him off!

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

That was a fantastic scouting report on Moss kudos to the guy who wrote it, I loved Moss coming out of college and alway's had my feeling's that his talent's were being held back by the Jet's, he can be a fantastic reciever for us, but the big question is can, and will Gibb's be able to extract that talent out of him and utilize it to maximize his effectivness? Let's hope so!

As for the cap situation at this point I would think any contract's signed this season will be structured so that player get's the bulk of his signing bonus next season when we really drop down around $10mil from Cole's and Trotter, I have to assume that's the game plan, in so doing we will be able to offer Moss and Smoot a long term deal with a guarenteed 2nd year bonus and get our #1 draft pick signed, the rest will fall into place.

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

can't the terms disclosed part of the deal mean that the jets will pay some of the cash or is it set that we will take the 9 million hit. i mean y would we do that it hurts us really really bad that is a couple great players. pierce smoot. and plexico geeeeez but hopefully we get some of that cash back through coles or the jets

i guess what i am asking are we DEFINATLY taking that 9 mill hit?

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

Question--This may be a stupid question but did Management already set the cap ceiling for this year, or is that done at the March Owners meeting?....If the owners set it in March, we may be able to have a little extra cap room..........

At least we got a decent player in a bad situation.......it could've been worse...Coles could've remained a Skin and then decided to go ahead and have the toe surgery during the season and he would be spending his time on IR and we would've filled a roster spot but lacked a WR on the field. Or he could have been disgruntled and been stuck with the Skins and played, but maybe he would be a cancer in the locker room....I think Gibbs is trying to set a tone for the team and didn't want to put up with a disgruntled Coles IMHO..................

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

[QUOTE=monk81]Question--This may be a stupid question but did Management already set the cap ceiling for this year, or is that done at the March Owners meeting?....If the owners set it in March, we may be able to have a little extra cap room..........[/QUOTE]

I read that the cap for 2005 will be $85.5M, so not much extra room.

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

well i think moss can be a solid #1 wide receiver, nothing wrong with ducking out of bounds when you need to. and what they say about sideline santana, thats nothing coles didn't do. coles never fought for extra yards.

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

I think it was a bad trade. I personally don't see Moss as our #1 and it put us in a poor financial situation. We should make him play this year before we show him the money.

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

[QUOTE=BigSKINBauer]can't the terms disclosed part of the deal mean that the jets will pay some of the cash or is it set that we will take the 9 million hit. i mean y would we do that it hurts us really really bad that is a couple great players. pierce smoot. and plexico geeeeez but hopefully we get some of that cash back through coles or the jets

i guess what i am asking are we DEFINATLY taking that 9 mill hit?[/QUOTE]

Technically it's about a $6M cap hit since he was already supposed to count roughly $3M for this year, but yeah total of $9M

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]I think it was a bad trade. I personally don't see Moss as our #1 and it put us in a poor financial situation. We should make him play this year before we show him the money.[/QUOTE]
I agree, make him play this upcoming season under his current contract, then evaluate him and pay him accordingly. None of this pay him a big contract because he is a "Redskin" now crap!

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

the big guess with contract now/contract later is how well he's going to play... samuels refused to rework his contract till he had a good year, cause that means more money for him. If we think moss is going to prove himself and be with us for a long time, it'd be best to sign him now... i'd be hesitant though with his history of missing games....

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

The only positive I can see by signing him now is he's coming off a so-so season. Let's say we wait and he ends up having a big '05 season, his price will only go up. It might pay to sign him now to a moderate deal.

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

I wonder what kind of cap space we can recover by cutting some of these players:

Chad Morton

Lennie Friedman and/or Cory Raymer

Darnerian McCants

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

yeah cory raymer should be cut, along with mark brunell, darnerian mccants, and michael barrow.

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

mooby - It's impossible to cut Brunell with the salary cap.

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]I wonder what kind of cap space we can recover by cutting some of these players:

Chad Morton

Lennie Friedman and/or Cory Raymer

Darnerian McCants[/QUOTE]

Cap Savings by Player - Players that would save $0.5 million or more:

Rod Gardner $1,446,800
Walt Harris $1,250,000
Brandon Noble $1,050,000
Cory Raymer $841,667
Lennie Friedman $700,000
Robert Royal $660,000
Matt Bowen $600,000
James Thrash $521,000

Of those guys, we know we're trading Gardner already. We HAVE to keep Harris. But I'd be looking hard at Noble, Raymer, and Friedman. Just gotta draft some depth at those positions if you're going to cut those guys.

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

brunell would cosst u more to cut then keep...

mccants, gardner, raymer, hall can save us money lasst i checked... morton may or may not...

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]mooby - It's impossible to cut Brunell with the salary cap.[/QUOTE]

especially after we just bit the big one on Coles

We're stuck with Brunell for another year at least

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

Sounds like Gibbs will bring Raymer back as the backup at center, I'd say Friedman is more likely to be cut, we'll see though

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

yeah i know he can't be cut. i was just saying i wish that would happen. what would happen if we traded him? same result?

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

[QUOTE=mooby]yeah i know he can't be cut. i was just saying i wish that would happen. what would happen if we traded him? same result?[/QUOTE]
If you're talking about Brunell, yeah, same result. Actually, now's the time they should get him to restructure, at least to give a little more cap room this year.....although that could make it a bigger hit in a year or two when he is released (I think). If they could talk him into restructuring for less money that would be awesome, but I doubt he would go for it (he still believes he can be a NFL starter....yeah right!).

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

[QUOTE=mooby]yeah i know he can't be cut. i was just saying i wish that would happen. what would happen if we traded him? same result?[/QUOTE]

same result

basically there's no way around a cap hit whether a player is traded, cut, or retires

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

damn. what if we restructured his deal so he gets less money now, then cut him. would we still have his numbers on the future salary cap?

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

All restructuring does is delay the inevitable. By reducing the cap # in the short run, you're pushing it to later in the contact, then once you cut or trade the player it all comes due.

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

very rarely do players rewrite their contracts so they make less money...

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

From the WP:

"Swapping Coles for Santana Moss brought a salary cap hit of roughly $9 million, and leaves the Redskins with less than $2 million under the cap. "

Re: Salary cap- After Coles release
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]very rarely do players rewrite their contracts so they make less money...[/QUOTE]
Unless they are in danger of being cut, and don't feel like shopping themselves - I'm looking at you, Jerome Bettis.