Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister

[url=http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/01/18000685-five-year-old-boy-accidentally-shoots-kills-sister#comments]Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister - U.S. News[/url]

These are same people I am suppose to listen on gun control, hell no!

[QUOTE=Giantone;1007379]Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister

[url=http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/01/18000685-five-year-old-boy-accidentally-shoots-kills-sister#comments]Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister - U.S. News[/url]

These are same people I am suppose to listen on gun control, hell no![/QUOTE]

Sounds like an accident. A terrible accident, but an accident none the less. Not sure how a back ground check would have prevented anything in this instance. All this seems to be is a good head line for those with weak arguments.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

This is a terrible accident. That said, I'm in favor of removing guns from individuals like this. Once you've shown you are irresponsible with guns and other lives are lost, you deserve to lose that right to own a gun.

Don't we already have a gun thread?

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1007422]Don't we already have a gun thread?[/quote]

Yes we do.
And I'm not even going to bother because hes just trolling.
He just posts a link and looks for a fight. Doesnt even address the tragedy.
Dont know why becaue he always gets his ass handed to him on this subject.
Troll is as troll does.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=Giantone;1007379]Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister

[URL="http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/01/18000685-five-year-old-boy-accidentally-shoots-kills-sister#comments"]Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister - U.S. News[/URL]

These are same people I am suppose to listen on gun control, hell no![/quote]

Stupid thread and stupid people. Funny the left wants us to help all the stupid people in the US but when it fits their agenda they use them as a prop.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

well, people also kill a lot of other people with guns. 900,000 gun deaths in the last 40 years in the US. considering less than 1% of that number was killed by terrorists over the same time frame, maybe we should look at our priorities?

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1007422]Don't we already have a gun thread?[/quote]

A gun thread started with a sensational link from the opposite side of the argument.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=Daseal;1007454]A gun thread started with a sensational link from the opposite side of the argument.[/quote]

That has been discussed ad nauseaum.

This one is a pure troll thread and should be locked.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=Giantone;1007379]Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister

[URL="http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/01/18000685-five-year-old-boy-accidentally-shoots-kills-sister#comments"]Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister - U.S. News[/URL]

These are same people I am suppose to listen on gun control, hell no![/quote]

Let me ask you this how to you feel about people having pit bulls.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=firstdown;1007466]Let me ask you this how to you feel about people having pit bulls.[/quote]Or people with swimming pools, bicycles, cars, etc. There's a name of a logical fallacy for taking a rare example and trying to apply it generally, like g-1 is trying here, but I couldn't find it.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1007502]Or people with swimming pools, bicycles, cars, etc. There's a name of a logical fallacy for taking a rare example and trying to apply it generally, like g-1 is trying here, but I couldn't find it.[/quote]

The only thing you can say in this case its that its some pretty stupid parents. I don't care if they thought the gun was unloaded you treat all guns as if they are loaded and keep them out of the reach off children. If they want to allow their 5 yr old to shoot a gun thats fine under very strict guidance from a parent. At no point should a gun owner allow a 5 yr old to have total control of a gun loaded or not. There is a reason why kids eating untinsals, sissors, etc... are not sharp like mom and dads.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1007502]Or people with swimming pools, bicycles, cars, etc. There's a name of a logical fallacy for taking a rare example and trying to apply it generally, like g-1 is trying here, but I couldn't find it.[/quote]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy#Hasty_generalization.2C_or_converse_fallacy_of_accident]Fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

[quote]Hasty generalization, or converse fallacy of accident

Hasty generalization: argues from a special case to a general rule. Inductive logic demands a data set large enough and qualitative enough to warrant a generalization.
Example

Argument: Every person I've met has ten fingers, therefore, all people have ten fingers.
Problem: Those who have been met are not a representative subset of the entire set.

Also called reverse accident, destroying the exception, a dicto secundum quid ad dictum simpliciter

Proper Generalization: Every person in this room has ten fingers. Therefore, all people in this room have ten fingers.

[/quote]

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1007448]Guns don't kill people. People kill people[/quote]


Then who killed the 2 year old, the 5 year old that pulled the trigger or the parents that gave him the gun?

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

Who the F gives a 5 year old a gun?

This is more of a parenting issue than about guns to me.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1007422]Don't we already have a gun thread?[/quote]



We had(have) two.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=Mattyk;1007539]Who the F gives a 5 year old a gun?

This is more of a parenting issue than about guns to me.[/quote]


Kinda where I was going Matty. Yes this is a gun thread but I'm interested in the mind set of gun owners who seem to be able to rationalize anything not matter how bad or how terrible.
5 year olds still believe in Santa the Easter Bunny and Elmo, some can read , some can't some are just starting school, my wife who has taught 5/6 year olds for over 27 years will tell you they can't and don't have the power to rationalize or understand their actions as it pertains to the world that surrounds' them. Example...Tiger as a kid ...super golfer could out hit most adults but he didn't know why he could. Matty I agree the parents are to blame , what scares me is that this mind set is not uncommon among gun owners.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1007539]Who the F gives a 5 year old a gun?

This is more of a parenting issue than about guns to me.[/QUOTE]

Amen. Parents should be charged with negligence at least

[QUOTE=Giantone;1007541]Kinda where I was going Matty. Yes this is a gun thread but I'm interested in the mind set of gun owners who seem to be able to rationalize anything not matter how bad or how terrible.
5 year olds still believe in Santa the Easter Bunny and Elmo, some can read , some can't some are just starting school, my wife who has taught 5/6 year olds for over 27 years will tell you they can't and don't have the power to rationalize or understand their actions as it pertains to the world that surrounds' them. Example...Tiger as a kid ...super golfer could out hit most adults but he didn't know why he could. Matty I agree the parents are to blame , what scares me is that this mind set is not uncommon among gun owners.[/QUOTE]

I have a 4 yr old at home and a 1 year old, I also own a 9MM but it's at the highest shelf I have in the house and also in a lock box so unless someone would open the box and take it down to the floor I don't have anything to worry about. This kids parents were just not paying attention or just not capable of owning firearms.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=Giantone;1007541] BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...
5 year olds still believe in Santa the Easter Bunny and Elmo[/quote]

Same can be said of some parents.

[quote=Giantone;1007541]what scares me is that this mind set is not uncommon among gun owners.[/quote]

You've spoken to all gun owners or is this another one of your lies?

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

Obtuse trolls are just the worst....
The worst......

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=Giantone;1007541]what scares me is that this mind set is not uncommon among gun owners.[/quote]BS.
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/%22Citation_needed%22.jpg/800px-%22Citation_needed%22.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

Redacted

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1007550]Amen. Parents should be charged with negligence at least[/quote]



A company made, marketed and sold this gun deliberately to be fired by young children. It was bought and given to a boy not yet old enough for kindergarten. It was left – loaded – within the child’s reach. The death was accidental. It also was entirely predictable and preventable.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

[QUOTE=Giantone;1007600]A company made, marketed and sold this gun deliberately to be fired by young children. It was bought and given to a boy not yet old enough for kindergarten. It was left – loaded – within the child’s reach. The death was accidental. It also was entirely predictable and preventable.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand the need to point blame in every situation. Sometimes accidents happen bro. Although depending on your predicting skills we may be able to prevent anyone from dying fairly shortly. Let me know how that works out.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=mlmdub130;1007602]I don't understand the need to point blame in every situation. Sometimes accidents happen bro. Although depending on your predicting skills we may be able to prevent anyone from dying fairly shortly. Let me know how that works out.[/quote]

Leaving a loaded gun within the reach of a 5 year old is pretty much en epic parenting fail in my book.

This was an easily preventable accident.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=Mattyk;1007686]Leaving a loaded gun within the reach of a 5 year old is pretty much en epic parenting fail in my book.

This was an [COLOR="Red"]easily preventable [/COLOR]accident.[/quote]

A lot of accidents are.
But they still happen.
Insert hindsight cliche phrase here.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1007689]A lot of accidents are.
But they still happen.
Insert hindsight cliche phrase here.[/quote]

Doesn't take much hindsight to say it's completely irresponsible to leave a loaded gun "in the corner" when you have small children running around the house. Is it too much to call this what it is, a careless and irresponsible gun owner?

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=Mattyk;1007695]Doesn't take much hindsight to say it's completely irresponsible to leave a loaded gun "in the corner" when you have small children running around the house. Is it too much to call this what it is, a careless and irresponsible gun owner?[/quote]Amen.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=Mattyk;1007695]Doesn't take much hindsight to say it's completely irresponsible to leave a loaded gun "in the corner" when you have small children running around the house. Is it too much to call this what it is, a careless and irresponsible gun owner?[/quote]

It sure is.
The parents are epic morons.
And if I was privy to sit in on the investigation I might think that the five year old should be removed from the parents.

I'd also call them a careless irresponsible parent.
Not a careless irresponsible swimming pool/automobile owner....I mean gun owner.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1007704]It sure is.
The parents are epic morons.
And if I was privy to sit in on the investigation I might think that the five year old should be removed from the parents.

I'd also call them a careless irresponsible parent.
Not a careless irresponsible swimming pool/automobile owner....I mean gun owner.[/quote]


So a gun owner that leaves a gun in a corner "LOADED" within reach of a child, a gun that was a present for a child, so a child comes and plays with said "LOADED GUN" and kills someone , is not a ..."careless irresponsible" gun owner just a bad parent ? So you are saying you can't be both?

[QUOTE=Giantone;1007737]So a gun owner that leaves a gun in a corner "LOADED" within reach of a child, a gun that was a present for a child, so a child comes and plays with said "LOADED GUN" and kills someone , is not a ..."careless irresponsible" gun owner just a bad parent ? So you are saying you can't be both?[/QUOTE]

Of course they are both, I just don't see the need to beat a drum about it. Your basic argument is because these people aren't smart enough to keep their guns safe then no one is. Occasionally you have good arguments this one is not one of them.

Unfortunately there are careless individuals out there, lots of them. In this case a background check would not have done much. Now if either of these parents had been found mentally incapacitated prior to this gun purchase then the story is very different.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

My parents had a swimming pool in our backyard when I was growing up. My dad built a very heavy and tall locked gate that kept me, my brother, my sisters, and neighborhood children from going in unsupervised. That's a responsible parent.

I am sure that the parents in this tragedy understood gun risk. I think that they probably made sure, when they were supervising him, that he did all the right steps, just like when I went swimming, my parents, or someone able to open that heavy gate was around and making sure I was safe. But they became irresponsible parents when they didn't lock the gun back up, unlike my parents who locked that dang pool all the time, no matter how much I felt I was able to do it on my own.

It's not a perfect analogy, but to me it is a better one than just lumping this tragedy into the gun control debate. There is no law that can be enforced in the privacy of one's home that will prevent or eliminate all tragedies occurring from irresponsible behavior.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1007753]My parents had a swimming pool in our backyard when I was growing up. My dad built a very heavy and tall locked gate that kept me, my brother, my sisters, and neighborhood children from going in unsupervised. That's a responsible parent.

I am sure that the parents in this tragedy understood gun risk. I think that they probably made sure, when they were supervising him, that he did all the right steps, just like when I went swimming, my parents, or someone able to open that heavy gate was around and making sure I was safe. But they became irresponsible parents when they didn't lock the gun back up, unlike my parents who locked that dang pool all the time, no matter how much I felt I was able to do it on my own.

It's not a perfect analogy, but to me it is a better one than just lumping this tragedy into the gun control debate. There is no law that can be enforced in the privacy of one's home that will prevent or eliminate all tragedies occurring from irresponsible behavior.[/quote]


CR, first I didn't want this to be about gun control ,this isn't. I guess I was more looking to show the mental state of many(not all) gun owners.110% right any law on gun background checks would not have stop this .I'm looking at the mind set of a gun owner in general .I admit I can't comprehend what type of parent or adult in general would give a real gun to a five year old and then be shocked when something like this happens.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=Giantone;1007768]CR, first I didn't want this to be about gun control ,this isn't. I guess I was more looking to show the mental state of many(not all) gun owners.110% right any law on gun background checks would not have stop this .I'm looking at the mind set of a gun owner in general .I admit I can't comprehend what type of parent or adult in general would give a real gun to a five year old and then be shocked when something like this happens.[/quote]Liar. You aren't looking for the mindset of the average gun owner. You're still trying to impugn all gun owners. At least those that disagree with you. Your opening post:
[quote=Giantone;1007379]Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister

[url=http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/01/18000685-five-year-old-boy-accidentally-shoots-kills-sister#comments]Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister - U.S. News[/url]

These are same people I am suppose to listen on gun control, hell no![/quote]The responses you've gotten this thread should indicate to you otherwise, even AlvinWalton's post that you tried your darndest to misinterpret a few posts up.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

[quote=Giantone;1007768]CR, first [COLOR="Red"]I didn't want this to be about gun control[/COLOR] ,this isn't. I guess I was more looking to show the mental state of many(not all) gun owners.110% right any law on gun background checks would not have stop this .I'm looking at the mind set of a gun owner in general .I admit I can't comprehend what type of parent or adult in general would give a real gun to a five year old and then be shocked when something like this happens.[/quote]

Yet in your initial post you start ranting about gun control.

I suggest you go back to dry humping your Phil Sims Fathead because you really suck at debating on an internet forum.

Epic stuff. GiantOne (and he really is a giant one) gets mauled again.

Re: Five-year-old boy accidentally shoots, kills sister
 

Exactly what I expected.