The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

I was curious how much improvement the offense showed when we made the switch to Ramsey and here's the numbers I came up with.

Keep in mind I took the numbers from games they [u]started[/u], there's a few that overlap since Ramsey relieved Brunell a few times, and I'm not going to go through every single play to be 100% accurate but if someone wants to take on that nightmare feel free. ;)

Brunell:
9 starts, offense averaged 272.1 yards per game, 13.1 points per game.

Ramsey:
7 starts, offense averaged 278.3 yards per game, 16.4 points per game.

Modest improvements, so I looked a bit further.

3rd down conversion rates under both QBs:

Brunell: 28.5%
Ramsey: 36%

So as you can see the offense definitely showed improvement across the board with the most dramatic and perhaps the most critical change coming in 3rd down percentage.

Just something to think about and some optimism for next year for the offense under Patrick!

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

Great idea Matty, and it looks like a small improvement, but hey even the Ravens won with so-so QB paly.

I suppose the best way to break this down would be to due time of posetion, from each game and figure out minute by minute how they compare.

Also I think Ramsey was more consistant, where Brunell was streaky, for example the first Dallas game in the fourth quarter.

Anyone have some extra time on their hands to figure all of this out?

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

Or how about this, I took the same averages for the final 5 games for Ramsey.

The offense averaged 315.8 yards per game and 20.4 points per game.

3-2 record.

That's perhaps a more fair look at him, since his first two starts came against Philly and Pittsburgh and he was clearly a little shakey and wasn't 100% comfortable in the offense at that point.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=drew54]Great idea Matty, and it looks like a small improvement, but hey even the Ravens won with so-so QB paly.

I suppose the best way to break this down would be to due time of posetion, from each game and figure out minute by minute how they compare.

Also I think Ramsey was more consistant, where Brunell was streaky, for example the first Dallas game in the fourth quarter.

Anyone have some extra time on their hands to figure all of this out?[/QUOTE]
hello drew, could you spell posetiion for me again? :)

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Or how about this, I took the same averages for the final 5 games for Ramsey.

The offense averaged 315.8 yards per game and 20.4 points per game.

3-2 record.

That's perhaps a more fair look at him, since his first two starts came against Philly and Pittsburgh and he was clearly a little shakey and wasn't 100% comfortable in the offense at that point.[/QUOTE]

great points.........I've said over and over if Ramsey starts the season we are in the playoffs last year. The worst thing that happen to Ramsey was being thrown into the first Giants game. He was trying to make plays and bring the team back and made to many mistake trying to do to much. I think that game may have given Joe gibbs a bad feeling about Ramsey.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

The improvement on 3rd downs is the most remarkable. The points and passing are a little misleading as there are reasons beyond talent and production that make those numbers appear more similar than they really are. Consider that Brunell did have the services of John Hall for most of his run and Ramsey did not. That probably directly skews points a couple in each direction. Plus by the time Ramsey stepped in our defense was is stalwart mode and we were simply trying not to lose games on offense. Through Brunell's first few games I doubt our offense was planned to be as bland as it was. Brunell's suckiness just made us go bland. I think it is reasonable to assume we may have performed somewhat less conservatively through the first two or three games. Ramsey also missed Portis one game. All in all Brunell had every opportunity to suceed and royally crapped the bed while Ramsey was brought in to a watered down offense minus a #1 kicker and Portis for a game.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

Good points, FRPLG...

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

Calculate Ramseys stats for six games, all of them except the Giants game. Im sure they will definitly drop. That was the one game that we acutally opened things up and Gibbs made us think that things were going to change. But as we saw a week later it was a one time gameplan for Gibbs on the year.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

I think the real issue with Ramsey is that he's young and will continue to get better. Not only is he better NOW, but he can also improve. With Brunell he is going nowhere but down...I like the fact that we are going to concentrate on starting a QB who can grow with the franchise.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]Calculate Ramseys stats for six games, all of them except the Giants game. Im sure they will definitly drop. That was the one game that we acutally opened things up and Gibbs made us think that things were going to change. But as we saw a week later it was a one time gameplan for Gibbs on the year.[/QUOTE]

Things really didn't open up that game, the running game accounted for 211 yards, Portis had 31 carries for 148 yards, Betts 11 for 64. Ramsey only attempted 22 passes, but hit on 19.

The running game set everything up.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

Did anyone factor in the red socks?

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

I'm shocked the numbers are so different, didn't seem so when Ramsey came in! Either way, I'm going to have an annurism if I see Brunell playing anything but pre-season or because of an injury.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]Did anyone factor in the red socks?[/QUOTE]

There's a very complicated equation to take the red socks into account, not sure if my calculator can handle it.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

I'm probably in the minority here but I'm still not entirely convinced that we could just say if Ramsey had started day one we'd be in the playoffs.

I think that, as painful as it was to see Brunell struggle like that, it was necessary in order to allow all the surrounding pieces to get comfortable with Gibbs' playcalling (motions, etc.) while the staff worked on Ramsey in practice until he was ready to come in.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

Nice point TAFKAS - as bad as Brunell was, every player on that offense went through an accelerated learning curve with this system. I'm by no means a Brunell apologist, but we were taking a lot of penalties early on that the entire offense has to be accountable for. By the time Ramsey was the entrenched starter, the consecutive delay of game penalties had been eliminated.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

Looking at the team, looks like we fixed the O-line, the Defense will be fine under GW,
and our receiving corps should be better, its on Ramsey, he can take us to the playoffs if he plays well...

and i think he can.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I'm probably in the minority here but I'm still not entirely convinced that we could just say if Ramsey had started day one we'd be in the playoffs.

I think that, as painful as it was to see Brunell struggle like that, it was necessary in order to allow all the surrounding pieces to get comfortable with Gibbs' playcalling (motions, etc.) while the staff worked on Ramsey in practice until he was ready to come in.[/QUOTE]

Yup. For such a smart-ass, it's amazing that TAFKAS can actually be quite insightful. : )

All in all, I am hoping that last season is similar to JG's original 0-5 start, just extended over the entire season.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]Did anyone factor in the red socks?[/QUOTE]

lol...................

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

I'd just like to point out that 3 of Ramsey's 7 starts came against Philly, Philly, and Pittsburgh. By that time, Trotter had broken into the starting lineup and that defense was playing like one of the best in the league. Pittsburgh's D was awesome all season long.

In those 3 losses, the Redskins were very competitive with the Steelers and very competitive in the 2nd Eagles game (one miscalculated throw to Chris Cooley in the end zone resulted in a Dawkins interception).

Ramsey is likely to continue to struggle against the top defenses, but what QB doesn't? Bottom line is we were competitive against tough teams when he was in there. He just has to keep improving, and he'll get us over the hump. I'm convinced he's a QB that can take us a long ways at some point.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]There's a very complicated equation to take the red socks into account, not sure if my calculator can handle it.[/QUOTE]I'v got one just need the numbers.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

I just hope like heck that Gibbs doesn't put Brunell back in there. He consistently says that Brunell is an important part of the team which is fine as long as that part does not constitute him being on the field but on the sidelines helping to tutor Ramsey and Hasselbeck.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

I too, wonder what would happen if Ramsey got hurt. Would they put back in Brunell?

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=Yellow31]I just hope like heck that Gibbs doesn't put Brunell back in there. He consistently says that Brunell is an important part of the team which is fine as long as that part does not constitute him being on the field but on the sidelines helping to tutor Ramsey and Hasselbeck.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't worry. My guess is he has to say that so that the Skins don't look so foolish for signing Brunell to the contract that they did. Ramsey's our guy.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

We need consistant positive play from the QB-who ever it is. With that and our "D" we can go far in the playoffs.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]I too, wonder what would happen if Ramsey got hurt. Would they put back in Brunell?[/QUOTE]
That appears obvious based on Joe's remarks this offseason. "Mark has got a lot of football left in him." over and over again. Mark is 2nd string, there is no doubt.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

regardless of the stats, the offense just looked like ramsey gave them a spark. they looked excited and more motivated than they did when brunell was under center.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

getting it right priceless

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

Fact is we DON'T have a top shelf QB.Brunell is Gibbsies favorite.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

I think that when Gibbs says that stuff about Brunell not being done yet, he means like when Williams came off the bench to win us our second super bowl.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

Nothing is written in stone. If Brunell came off the be bench and won us the S.B. you would all be lovin hi.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

No doubt. But until he can do that, I don't really believe he HAS any football left in him.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]I too, wonder what would happen if Ramsey got hurt. Would they put back in Brunell?[/QUOTE]

Brunell will definitely go back in if Ramsey is injured.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

Ramsey will also benefit from a full training camp with him playing with the starters, and should also see improvement when we start the season with an improved offensive line---better center-Rabach, and a HEALTHY Jansen.....YEAH!!!
The season can't start soon enough for me.................

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

I know and normally I LOVE summertime. I hate to wish time away but dammit I wish the season would start.

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

That's the only thing that stinks about football, you hate to see the summer pass by but dammit it's well worth it for football!

For you warm weather guys I don't even want to hear it!

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

Haha... Well the good thing is, I'll be heading to Mexico for vacation RIGHT before the season starts. Now tell me that won't be some of the best days of my life right there. (I'll prolly get engaged too!)

Re: The offense under Brunell vs. Ramsey
 

Oh hell, lets draft a sleeper QB - say Charlie Frye. Probably be the next Tom Brady. Ramsey has alot further to go then just having a healthy O-line