Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

First of all, why did Champ have any reason to believe the Joe Gibbs era would be different than anyone else's? Joe has more credentials and everything else, but he's not a spring chicken. If I were Champ I would have worried that could leave at any time. Champ played for 1 less coach than he had years in the league when he was with Washington. I think he played 1 1/2 season for Norv and 2 for Spurrier. Spurrier left then we got Joe. The guy that Snyder wanted all along, right? Wrong. That was supposed to have been Spurrier.

Second, I'm tired of this "he plays for the money" bullsh*t. Yeah, he got a bigger contract in Denver. You know what sold him on it? The contract is front loaded. If he had signed the same deal with the Skins he would have had to restructure 3 years in or have been cut. Just because he played bad doesn't mean he doesn't care. Another question...did we make the playoffs last year? No. Did Denver? Yes. Was Denver a better team than Washington? Yes. I don't care if they got blown out, we weren't anywhere near a playoff caliber team.

Finally, we [B]TRADED[/B] Champ Bailey. He didn't pick where he wanted to go. We got a top flite running back for him. Clinton Portis is as good a back as there is in this league so let it go! Champ for Portis. OMG, we gave up a second round pick. So what? If he played well we wouldn't have resigned him anyway, so what does it really matter?

Bottom line. He went to a better team and a better situation. Say what you want about them not winning playoff games, at least they play em. Say what you want about Plummer at least he lead em to the playoffs. Say what you want about the money...Denver's better. Bailey and a 2nd for Portis? Even after a "sub par" I'd still make that deal any day of the weak and twice on Sundays.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

I'm sorry, but this site is for Redskins fans. Perhaps you can track down a similar Broncos site if you'd like to spend the day riding Champ's jock and spouting off about how much better the Broncos have been in recent years than the skins.

"First of all, why did Champ have any reason to believe the Joe Gibbs era would be different than anyone else's?"

I don't know, maybe three rings and being a hall of fame coach would have something to do with it.

"Just because he played bad doesn't mean he doesn't care."

Nope, it just means he's overpaid and overrated.

"Another question...did we make the playoffs last year? No. Did Denver? Yes. Was Denver a better team than Washington? Yes. I don't care if they got blown out, we weren't anywhere near a playoff caliber team."

See initial comment above

"Bottom line. He went to a better team and a better situation. Say what you want about them not winning playoff games, at least they play em."

And that and 50 cents will get you a candy bar.
Twelve teams make the playoffs every year, it's not that exclusive of a club.

"Say what you want about Plummer at least he lead em to the playoffs."

Plummer's not even worth commenting on.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

Champ who? :sleep:

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

First of all, we are going to take shots at Chump, because we are fans and that is what we do to opposing teams players. We will especially do it if that player used to play for us. Secondly, in todays NFL you can not always predict which team is going to be good, bad, or straight up ugly. And lastly, we franchise tagged that S.O.B. which means that he would have been paid the average of the top 5 players at his position for one year. So now after all of this we are still bagging on Chump and you have run out of excuses for him.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

We didn't lose a thing by trading Champ. We got Portis (which we really needed) then picked up Springs (who didn't lose a beat to Champ). Now if we can only do the same thing after losing Smoot and Pierce!!!

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

Mike Shanahan isn't a slouch either...He won his share of SB and he was certainly at the helm of a more stable franchise when Champ left. I still have love for Champ but he is old news.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

Hey when he stops talking junk about the skins', I'll leave him alone. I'll root for a guy like Fred Smoot because he didnt come out and bash everything (yet, I hope) and think his sh*t dont stink.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

Also Champ criticized Springs and Smoot on Rome's show which was uncalled for. My beef with him is not that he left - I'm so glad we don't have 60 mil tied up in him right now - but just his brash and arrogant attitude. Clearly he is not the best CB in football, but he insists on reiterating that ad nauseum. Gets humiliated by Chad Johnson on TV and still claims "im the best." He is a real life Leon.

Also, there's his constant bashing of the Skins. Could it be Champ is mad that Gibbs and Co. did the right thing in trading him and not overpaying him?
I think its real hard to argue against Champ being way overrated at this point. That has become the consensus among NFL experts.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

Fu*k champ! Not for leaving Washington, that was his right. Fu*k him for his personal crusade against the Redskins ever since he left...

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

I think you all just perceive it as a personal crusade. So what he said he didn't think the Skins have a good organization? They don't.

Also, Fred Smoot called him. And he did it every week during the season, too. So what if he called him right before he left. He wouldn't have left if he wanted to stay.

And as for him calling Courtney Brown...so what? The guy was trying to make a decision about what team to go to and Champ's team was one of them!

As for me not being a Skins fan...I'm a realist. I'm a football fan. I don't ride Snyder's jock like 90% of this site. I don't like the Broncos. I was merely pointing out that they had a better team than us last year. So how can people say he plays for the money if he went to a winning team?

It also says "knowledgeable" on the logo since you wanna throw out that "this is a site for Skins fans"...like I didn't know that. Maybe you should bring some more knowledge PSUSkinsFan21. I actually back up my agruements with facts not conjecture. Oh, 12 teams make the playoffs? Thanks for clearing that up...and the club isn't that exclusive? If not, how come we were no where near em?

Gibbs has 3 rings? When did he win the last one? How old is he again? His health could fail (God Forbid) and he could be out of coaching tomorrow. Oh, and how did the Gibbs era start?

Finally, since you attacked chunks of my post...why didn't you attack any of the facts? Why didn't you attack the part about the coaches he's played for? Maybe he wanted some continuity. Saden1 got it absolutely right.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

[quote]I'm sorry, but this site is for Redskins fans. Perhaps you can track down a similar Broncos site if you'd like to spend the day riding Champ's jock and spouting off about how much better the Broncos have been in recent years than the skins.[/quote]

Everyone that doesn't have your opinion isn't a Redskins fan, I see.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

My whole point is [B]"who cares?"[/B] He's not a Redskin. So what if he doesn't like em. I don't even like the front office. I think the Skins have one of the worst organizations in the league. I like the coaching staff and the players. I don't like Snyder. I don't like Cerrato. I'm skeptical about the Skins because I've been snake bitten by promise. It won't happen again.

Anyway, who cares what Champ thinks. He should worry about covering people on national TV. He should also figure out why Amani Toomer always put him in the toaster. I don't care if he runs his mouth. I think you all overblow some of what he says. The Courtney Brown thing...nobody even had a quote about him saying anything about the Skins. I can understand those of you for not liking him for talking about the Skins...my post was more about those who hate him for leaving or those who say he plays for the money. Or those who try to bash his size and say he'll get killed if he plays WR. I, personally, don't care what he says about the Skins. He's not one. He'll never be one again. I couldn't care less about Denver. I hate the team. The only reason I ever watched em is because I had Quentin Griffin starting in week 1 on my Fantasy Football team.

When it all comes down to it, anything Champ says is irrevelant. Until he starts putting up on the field again, his mouth is writing checks his ass can't cash.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

......

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]First of all, why did Champ have any reason to believe the Joe Gibbs era would be different than anyone else's? Joe has more credentials and everything else, but he's not a spring chicken. If I were Champ I would have worried that could leave at any time. Champ played for 1 less coach than he had years in the league when he was with Washington. I think he played 1 1/2 season for Norv and 2 for Spurrier. Spurrier left then we got Joe. The guy that Snyder wanted all along, right? Wrong. That was supposed to have been Spurrier.

Second, I'm tired of this "he plays for the money" bullsh*t. Yeah, he got a bigger contract in Denver. You know what sold him on it? The contract is front loaded. If he had signed the same deal with the Skins he would have had to restructure 3 years in or have been cut. Just because he played bad doesn't mean he doesn't care. Another question...did we make the playoffs last year? No. Did Denver? Yes. Was Denver a better team than Washington? Yes. I don't care if they got blown out, we weren't anywhere near a playoff caliber team.

Finally, we [b]TRADED[/b] Champ Bailey. He didn't pick where he wanted to go. We got a top flite running back for him. Clinton Portis is as good a back as there is in this league so let it go! Champ for Portis. OMG, we gave up a second round pick. So what? If he played well we wouldn't have resigned him anyway, so what does it really matter?

Bottom line. He went to a better team and a better situation. Say what you want about them not winning playoff games, at least they play em. Say what you want about Plummer at least he lead em to the playoffs. Say what you want about the money...Denver's better. Bailey and a 2nd for Portis? Even after a "sub par" I'd still make that deal any day of the weak and twice on Sundays.[/QUOTE]

this post was a waste of time. no one is unhappy w/ him leaving so u shut up about that, we are upset that he runs his mouth and u said, y we care that he runs his mouth. why the fuck would we not care, its our team and he continually runs his damn mouth all the time. he needs to shut the fuck up before we do.
Its our team and we defend it so thats why we talk about him.

he is jelous he needs spot light and he's a damn coward.

i just hope that he does play WR and plays that slot and catches a ball( he should catch alot of balls this year expecially after learning first hand how to catch them balls from chad johnson and the other WRs that smoked his arse this year..... nothing better than learning first hand.) down the middle and arrington and taylor destroy him... litterally destroy him when he goes down the middle. but he will be tired from chasin santana and david up and down that field

"Say what you want about them not winning playoff games, at least they play em. Say what you want about Plummer at least he lead em to the playoffs. Say what you want about the money...Denver's better. Bailey and a 2nd for Portis?" what did we say about plummer that is retarded, any ways the dumbass threw the ball w/ his left hand! and he didn't lead them to the playoffs he led them out of the playoffs

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Everyone that doesn't have your opinion isn't a Redskins fan, I see.[/QUOTE]

yup, he doesn't seem like a fan when he is defending only the broncos, there was absolutly no reason to talk about switch thrower plummer. jake the snake that has ideas that are half baked maybe he should stay awake when he throws the ball

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

I was content to never talk about Champ Bailey again, but you all keep going ballistic every time he says something. You're an asshole if you wish injury on anyone. Plain and simple. Only a prick would want a man's life or livelihood threatened. If you would actually enjoy seeing someone injured you have problems. Serious anger problems. There's something wrong if you think Champ deserves to get injured because he didn't have nice things to say about the Skins organization.

Remember one thing. You're not on the team. He's not talking about you. Him talking bad about our corners, I can understand you're angry about that. However, who cares if he doesn't like our FO. Again, I don't like them and I talk bad about them all the time. We're a poorly run franchise.

And as for your little bs about how I can shut up about people not being mad about him leaving...

[QUOTE]u kno wut i dnt care how he does at WR i jst wanna see his ass get KNOCKED OUT......we here in DC or ne where else treated him great we all liked him.....he goes nd says hes unhappy here nd seeks a trade.........same with smoot this whole thing about playing football for passion is a bunch of BULLLSHIT....EVERYONE IS AFTER THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...........the only person i can see actually staying by his word to stay with his team is RAY LEWIS.......i remember in the middle of the season wen people were actually aknowledging pierce he said" i love DC nd i dnt wanna' go anywhere else" well look at him now he left for somewhere else for couple 1000 more which we all know is nothing!!!![/QUOTE]

You're post:

[QUOTE]Preech it my brother![/QUOTE]

Clearly you care that he left. He didn't say he didn't like the city. He didn't like the organization. That post was about how he was pissed that Champ [B]left[/B]. He was pissed that Champ left. You agreed. Don't tell me you don't care that he left.

That post is the one that sparked mine.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

[QUOTE=BigSKINBauer]yup, he doesn't seem like a fan when he is defending only the broncos, there was absolutly no reason to talk about switch thrower plummer. jake the snake that has ideas that are half baked maybe he should stay awake when he throws the ball[/QUOTE]

Why did you quote Daseal's post during this jackass? Daseal was defending someone attacking mine. Why don't read the rest of the thread? I don't care if you all are Skins fans. I never question it. PSUSkinsFan21 posted the thing about me not being a Skins fan...that's what Daseal was responding to.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

And since everyone wants to bash me for bring up Plummer. I was just cutting you all off before you could say some dumb sh*t like, "I would never go to a team where Jake Plummer is the starter."

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]Gibbs has 3 rings? When did he win the last one? How old is he again? His health could fail (God Forbid) and he could be out of coaching tomorrow. Oh, and how did the Gibbs era start? [/QUOTE]

Yes Gibbs does have 3 Super Bowl rings. He won his last one in 1991. I am not sure of Gibbs age but I am sure that I probably could find it on the internet. As for the start of Gibbs era, he went 8-8 in 1981 after a 0-5 start mind you, and then he won the Super Bowl in 1982, and went back to the Super Bowl in 1983. So in his first 3 years he went 8-8, and 1-1 in super bowls. Thats not a bad start for a NFL coach!!!

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

not to sound preachy or anything, but i think we should all take a step back and remember that all of us are skins fans, and that means we are part of a fraternity of sorts. The losing over the last 10 years, the front office failures, the ridicule from the rest of the world, we all share having gone through this (obviously its made us a little cantankerous).

its easy to forget that we are all on the same team here. i live in a town - state college- where i get laughed at when i leave the house in my skins jerseys. on this site its supposed to be different.

my point is that, in spite of the many disagreements we collectively harbor about the direction of this franchise, we should maybe try and be nice to each other as fellow fans. this post has digressed into pure meaness and, for me at least, that isn't what this site should be all about.

I'm sure someone will cuss me out for writing this (lol) but that's what i think.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]Why did you quote Daseal's post during this jackass? Daseal was defending someone attacking mine. Why don't read the rest of the thread? I don't care if you all are Skins fans. I never question it. PSUSkinsFan21 posted the thing about me not being a Skins fan...that's what Daseal was responding to.[/QUOTE]
first of all i wasn't attacking daseal, this post makes no sense and it isn't that i dont agree w/u, half the time (for example) i don't agree w/ daseal but his posts make some sense. This post has no purpose at all, there is no reason that we should be neutral about some guy that won't shut up about how bad our organization is.

i have some questions for you

Do you think that he is arrogant?

Where do you rank him at CB in the league?

Do you think that he has expressed his dislike for the redskins? or do you believe he has no dislike for the redskins?

Do u think that we should just listen and not comment about how he bad talks our team?

Thats it and i would like an apology for calling me a jackass, i didn't say anything like that to you so reframe from using personal attacks on people.

Also i understand now why u talked about jake the snake, before it made no sense what so ever

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

Whats with all the recent personal attacks? Jesus. If you don't like a post - avoid it.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65]not to sound preachy or anything, but i think we should all take a step back and remember that all of us are skins fans, and that means we are part of a fraternity of sorts. The losing over the last 10 years, the front office failures, the ridicule from the rest of the world, we all share having gone through this (obviously its made us a little cantankerous).

its easy to forget that we are all on the same team here. i live in a town - state college- where i get laughed at when i leave the house in my skins jerseys. on this site its supposed to be different.

my point is that, in spite of the many disagreements we collectively harbor about the direction of this franchise, we should maybe try and be nice to each other as fellow fans. this post has digressed into pure meaness and, for me at least, that isn't what this site should be all about.

I'm sure someone will cuss me out for writing this (lol) but that's what i think.[/QUOTE]

no cusing out, i am sorry for any of you that i may have offended, so don't call me a jackass again please:food-smil

Thank you for showing us the light, i too get negitive responses to me liking the skins and we are a team here

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

I meant his second stint. I'm still a little shaky as to whether he can adjust to today's NFL. I have all the respect in the world for what Gibbs did. What he will do is a different story. I don't know what's going to come of this team. For the record, I knew the answer to those questions.

My point was he's old (65) and his acclomplishments, while great, are a long time ago and for all anyone knows...long behind him. I don't think they are, I think he will return this team to greatness, but that's because I have faith. Champ didn't. Good riddance.

What's getting twisted is that I don't even really like Champ. I'm just tired of talking about him and people berrating him every time he makes a bad comment about the Skins. [B]I don't care.[/B] But people wanna be like "I hate him" because he called Courtney Brown and whoever wrote the article decided to put in "he probably many good things to say about his former employer." Nothing in that article was a quote from Champ. So it was just hear say. After this thread dies, I could never talk about Champ again and be perfectly happy.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

[QUOTE=BigSKINBauer]first of all i wasn't attacking daseal, this post makes no sense and it isn't that i dont agree w/u, half the time (for example) i don't agree w/ daseal but his posts make some sense. This post has no purpose at all, there is no reason that we should be neutral about some guy that won't shut up about how bad our organization is.

i have some questions for you

Do you think that he is arrogant?

Where do you rank him at CB in the league?

Do you think that he has expressed his dislike for the redskins? or do you believe he has no dislike for the redskins?

Do u think that we should just listen and not comment about how he bad talks our team?

Thats it and i would like an apology for calling me a jackass, i didn't say anything like that to you so reframe from using personal attacks on people.

Also i understand now why u talked about jake the snake, before it made no sense what so ever[/QUOTE]

I'll start off by apologizing for calling you a jackass. I just feel attacked when I put up a thread and a lot of people tear it apart. I'll say it stemmed from your post when you said I needed to shut up about something and you just started cussing up a storm for like 3 sentences. To me, I felt attacked. However, that didn't give me the right and I do apologize.

Now, I'll answer your questions. I think he is arrogant. I think he has the right to be. I think when he's on his game, he's the best in the league. Last year, I'd put him top 5-7. I think he has a great dislike for the organization, not the team. I don't think he holds any ill will toward the city. I don't think he likes Snyder and I don't think he trusts him.

I'll say again. I apologize for calling you a jackass.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65]not to sound preachy or anything, but i think we should all take a step back and remember that all of us are skins fans, and that means we are part of a fraternity of sorts. The losing over the last 10 years, the front office failures, the ridicule from the rest of the world, we all share having gone through this (obviously its made us a little cantankerous).

its easy to forget that we are all on the same team here. i live in a town - state college- where i get laughed at when i leave the house in my skins jerseys. on this site its supposed to be different.

my point is that, in spite of the many disagreements we collectively harbor about the direction of this franchise, we should maybe try and be nice to each other as fellow fans. this post has digressed into pure meaness and, for me at least, that isn't what this site should be all about.

I'm sure someone will cuss me out for writing this (lol) but that's what i think.[/QUOTE]

Here here.

As much as I like to see people bashing one another, it is getting out of hand and just becoming ridiculous.

Now, if people are going to be witty about it, I can dig it, but otherwise, please shut the f-ck up.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

While I'm on the whole apology thing...I'm gonna apologize for starting this thread. Obviously it's a sore subject. I don't think I should have brought it up. I took some posts a little personal and it lead to a lapse in judgement on my part. For the record. I will, again, apologize to BigSKINBauer.

I'd also like to apologize for bringing all this to a head. My bad.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

So I'm a fool now?! F U dude...lol j/k. I swear I'm joking.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

Just "Be Cool" my man, and "Think" about what you're saying!!!

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

Mods it is that time of the month again...no, i'm not talking about PMS. It's time to lock and kill a thread.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

I don't hate champ, and he's not overratted either, it's because they change the rules where you can't get physical with the receivers anymore, so now WR have more leave way, I said earlier in a post that Denver stacking there team, because the have to face Randy Moss twice a year, and since Den and Oak hate each other, the more pressure up front, the better the chance the DB's have of making play's.....Champ is still a top 3 DB in this league, bottom line

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]I'll start off by apologizing for calling you a jackass. I just feel attacked when I put up a thread and a lot of people tear it apart. I'll say it stemmed from your post when you said I needed to shut up about something and you just started cussing up a storm for like 3 sentences. To me, I felt attacked. However, that didn't give me the right and I do apologize.

Now, I'll answer your questions. I think he is arrogant. I think he has the right to be. I think when he's on his game, he's the best in the league. Last year, I'd put him top 5-7. I think he has a great dislike for the organization, not the team. I don't think he holds any ill will toward the city. I don't think he likes Snyder and I don't think he trusts him.

I'll say again. I apologize for calling you a jackass.[/QUOTE]
appology accepted and i hope you can take accept mine:food-smil

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

This is getting ridiculous ladies, keep it up and we'll have to start booting people.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

I definitely accept yours.

Matty, we got it worked out amongst ourselves. No need to boot anyone.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

Champ Bailey left....hey isn't that LAST YEAR'S NEWS?!?!?

Please get over it and talk about something that actually matters.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]First of all, why did Champ have any reason to believe the Joe Gibbs era would be different than anyone else's? Joe has more credentials and everything else, but he's not a spring chicken. If I were Champ I would have worried that could leave at any time. Champ played for 1 less coach than he had years in the league when he was with Washington. I think he played 1 1/2 season for Norv and 2 for Spurrier. Spurrier left then we got Joe. The guy that Snyder wanted all along, right? Wrong. That was supposed to have been Spurrier.

Second, I'm tired of this "he plays for the money" bullsh*t. Yeah, he got a bigger contract in Denver. You know what sold him on it? The contract is front loaded. If he had signed the same deal with the Skins he would have had to restructure 3 years in or have been cut. Just because he played bad doesn't mean he doesn't care. Another question...did we make the playoffs last year? No. Did Denver? Yes. Was Denver a better team than Washington? Yes. I don't care if they got blown out, we weren't anywhere near a playoff caliber team.

Finally, we [B]TRADED[/B] Champ Bailey. He didn't pick where he wanted to go. We got a top flite running back for him. Clinton Portis is as good a back as there is in this league so let it go! Champ for Portis. OMG, we gave up a second round pick. So what? If he played well we wouldn't have resigned him anyway, so what does it really matter?

Bottom line. He went to a better team and a better situation. Say what you want about them not winning playoff games, at least they play em. Say what you want about Plummer at least he lead em to the playoffs. Say what you want about the money...Denver's better. Bailey and a 2nd for Portis? Even after a "sub par" I'd still make that deal any day of the weak and twice on Sundays.[/QUOTE]


Are you dating Champ? J/K (i'm really joking jdlea)

Seriously, Champ no longer plays here so why even mention him? Let's talk about the current players on our roster, not the guys we traded 2 years ago. Who cares?

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Seriously, Champ no longer plays here so why even mention him? Let's talk about the current players on our roster, not the guys we traded 2 years ago. Who cares?[/QUOTE]

That's kinda my point. We always find some way to talk about him though. It kinda frustrates me because I loved Champ when he was here. However, he wore that out when he left. My whole point has been "who cares?" Cause I don't. I just get tired of talking about him. That's the reason I made this thread.

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]That's kinda my point. We always find some way to talk about him though. It kinda frustrates me because I loved Champ when he was here. However, he wore that out when he left. My whole point has been "who cares?" Cause I don't. I just get tired of talking about him. That's the reason I made this thread.[/QUOTE]


I hear ya jdlea. Everyone has their own opinion on Champ, and we should just keep that to ourselves. Theres no point in bashing him now that he's gone.

I'm just pissed because I bought his jersey!

Re: Stop complaining about Champ Bailey
 

Yeah, I bought his jersey when he was a rookie. It was the first football jersey I ever bought with my own money.... :banghead: