The DRAFT!!!!
 

Ok. After enduring this painful brak without the warpath (and dealing with the good hearted, but over the top folks at extremeskins), it's good to be back.

The trade. wow. And the war with the Post. Man.

I refure to believe the QB rumors. That feels like smoke to me, but we'll see.

I do think the draft is relatively deep at both CB and WR, which is what we need now, and that alone justifies the trade. CB at 9, WR at 25--we could get two starters and fix lots of our worries on Saturday.

Man, did they make this draft more exciting or what?

IT'S GOOD TO BE BACK! :food-smil :food-smil :food-smil

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

someone fill me in on the last week, what QB rumors? What war with the Post?

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

Nope....Here Comes Braylon Edwards.......

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

I've pasted some relevant links below. Basically, we traded next year's #1 and #4, and this years #3 for the broncs #1 (25th overall). According to draft "value charts" we did pretty well on the value of the deal. The main issue is the depth of the draft. The skins think it's deep at postions they need, so they moved to get another high pick. Wild stuff. Meanwhile, the speculation on what they'll do is running rampant. Pasta reported that Gibbs is going for a QB. We shall see...


[URL=http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=6488]skins.com: Redskins Complete Trade, Add 1st Rounder[/URL]

[URL=http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=6497]skins.com: Cerrato: 25th Pick 'Gives Us Options'[/URL]

[URL=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2217-2005Apr19.html]Wpost: Redskins Swap Draft Picks[/URL]

[URL=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5557-2005Apr20.html]Wpost: Redskins Are Exploring All Scenarios[/URL]

[URL=http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20050420-120547-7906r.htm]Wtimes: Redskins deal for 25th pick in draft[/URL]

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

The war with the post is has been simmering for some time (remember Gibbs press conference about the Coles trade). This time, the post reproted that Gibbs and Vinny are on the outs, becuase they gave seemingly conflicting press releases concerning a possible trade of our #9 to Oakland for CB Buchanan (who was then promptly traded to the Texans). That evening, we traded for Denvers pick, and it seemed the Post was last to know. The next day, we got a nearly hour long presser with Gibbs, Vinny and Danny all basically berating the media. It's archived here on skins.com:

[URL]http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/redskins/demand/050420redskinspress.rm&proto=rtsp&rbnkey=1[/URL]

If that's a bad link, go to skins.com. But unless you want to spend an hour of your honeymoon in Vegas listening to the FO yell at the press (and I would strongly advise against this :) ) check it out when you return.

:food-smil

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

Basicly pastabelly has us going with Campbell from Auburn. Though I like him a LOT and think he could develop into a great pro. I hope this isn't true!

That being said, if we trade those two firsts up for Edwards Im taking a gun to Redskins park.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

It doesn't make a lot of sense to spend all the picks on Edwards. I'm with you on that one. As for Campbell, sure, he looked pretty good, but why screw with Ramsey when we've got other needs? CB and WR!!!! Or trade down from 9, get the a CB, WR and a DE. That would be sweet. Or package #25 with Rod and get a vet CB? Man, who knows?

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

Honestly - I would love this scenario:

9th Pick - Get BMW if he's on the board (whcih I personally feel he will be, I know many don't agree, but we'll find out soon!) If he IS gone, trade down a few spots (dallas/carolina maybe) and get Williamson (who I feel may be the safest pick and fits the best into our system -- williams could be the brighter star though. Risk vs Reward.)

With the 25 either package it and Gardner for a decent Vet, or package them to move up a few spots, or just stay tight and get a CB, but address that need with the 25th pick.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

we've definitely got to do something besides using the pick to draft someone at the 25th spot... there's absolutely no one you can draft that late in the first round (jason campbell or heath miller or roddy white is not worth this much) that justifies giving up a first round next year, a fourth round next year, and a third this year. Just swapping first for firsts is risky, considering denver's this year is only the 25th pick- as much as i hope the skins will have a top 8 record this season, there's also a decent chance our first pick next year will be higher than 25. and that's not to mention the draft class next season is much stronger than this year's.

the wheelin' and dealin' has just begun, methinks. oh yeah, it's good to be back!

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

gardner + 25th pick to move up or get a vet maybe?

this has to lead somewhere, or else it doesn't make sense... if i were denver, i'd always make that trade (this draft isn't great, and the skins are probably going to be around the 15th pick next year, so...)

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

I think it was a terrible trade personally, just awful. I feel like this management treats draft picks with little regard.

3rd and 4th rounders should be the point at which you start building the meat of your team - guys who play hard, have some talent, and don't get outrageous salaries.

Also, I can't understand why we would make the trade now, before seeing who is even available at #25. I mean, why not wait until we see that there is someone we really want before pulling the trigger.

As for trading #25 and #9 to move up to #5 or #6? This would be the most idiotic thing possible. We would ultimately be trading four draft picks for one player. Since the Rickey Williams draft trade, there hasn't been a move this bad.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

Yeah there has to be a plan in here somewhere. It is unusually odd to trade up to the later part of the first round this far in advance of the draft. I would think you make this kind of move once you realize the guy you are looking for is definitly going to be there otherwise you're stuck with a late first rounder and no one to pick. I think trading the 9 and 25 for edwards is insane but maybe packaging Gardner and the 25 to move up in the first gives us a shot at Williamson and Jones. I personally like the deal a lot. I'd guess that at most you end up with two or maybe three players from each draft who end up being impact players for you somewhere down the road. Getting two first rounders maybe gets a little more immediate of an impact and helps emsure that impact. Plus every year it seems like we trade next years' picks for pick this years'. A never end ing cycle that has no downside really.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

[QUOTE=Drift Reality]I think it was a terrible trade personally, just awful. I feel like this management treats draft picks with little regard.

3rd and 4th rounders should be the point at which you start building the meat of your team - guys who play hard, have some talent, and don't get outrageous salaries.

Also, I can't understand why we would make the trade now, before seeing who is even available at #25. I mean, why not wait until we see that there is someone we really want before pulling the trigger.

As for trading #25 and #9 to move up to #5 or #6? This would be the most idiotic thing possible. We would ultimately be trading four draft picks for one player. Since the Rickey Williams draft trade, there hasn't been a move this bad.[/QUOTE]

Hold on, do not judge quite yet until you see what unfolds on Draft day. I think most folks want us to trade down from # 9 and possibly pick up more than we lost.

Of course, if we stay at # 9 and # 25, we go WR/CB or CB/WR. So, it may still be a win/win. Everyone equates the First round and rounds 3/4 with exactly what NE & the e-girls have done, to build through the Draft.

Well, that didn't work for HOF Coach Gibbs the first time around, so which of us can say we have HOF in front of our name?

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

i don't know if clement of buffalo is available but i would trade for him,otehrwise it's c rogers and maybe roddy white or someone.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

I guess the latest rumor has us trading up to get Edwards, with the Browns being the most likely suitor.

I asked a friend of mine who used to cover the Browns as well as someone over at Ourlads.com scouting. According to them, the Browns are high on Merriman and Campbell (have him rated ahead of Smith and Rodgers actually) so them trading down to 9 and 25 to get those two makes sense for them

For us...I'm not so sure

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

I think I read somewhere that Buffalo may have to cut Clements later in the year for cap reasons...so may want to wait on that trade.

Wouldn't cry if we got (9)C. Rogers and (25)R. White or M. Clayton. Trading down from 9 a couple spots and getting C. Rogers and a 2nd rounder would be sweet. Then get WR at 25 and DE in 2nd round. Maybe Chris Canty from VA?

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

I agree there has to be a plan somewhere for this whole 25th pick deal. It just doesn't make sense to trade this early for a guess at who might be there at #25.

I've heard rumblings of a John Abraham or Charles Woodson trade in the mix. While that would make sense from the standpoint of what we've given up for this pick, I'm not sure how they expect to sign either of those guys and still stay under the cap enough to sign our rookies, so I'm not sure what to make of those rumors.

I don't believe the Campbell smokescreen for a second. First, why would Gibbs, at his age, want to start fresh grooming a brand new QB? We don't have time for that with our existing team. And, Campbell is just not that impressive to me. He scored a 14 on the wonderlic, and had three subpar to bad years at Auburn before finally finding success in a west coast offense in his senior year. A non-heady, west coast QB? For Gibbs? None of that makes sense.

As for packaging the picks to move up and grab Edwards? Dear God please NO. I love Edwards, but nobody in this draft is worth two first round picks, a third and a fourth (which is essentially what we'd be paying for him) and we have entirely too many other needs.

If we stay at #9 and #25 (or package Gardner and #25 to move up) I'd be ok with that. Whoever we get with the newly acquired pick better be good because we'd be paying a lot to get him, but the prospect of getting two starting-caliber players (probably WR and CB) sounds good to me. Actually, best case scenario for me:
#9: WR (or trade down a few to get another pick and still land williams or williamson)
#25: CB (this is a very deep draft for CBs, should be an eventual starter there at 25)
Gardner: Trade for a 3rd rounder (might be tough to get) and get an ILB.
That, to me, would be a successfull Day 1.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

[quote]Also, I can't understand why we would make the trade now, before seeing who is even available at #25. I mean, why not wait until we see that there is someone we really want before pulling the trigger.[/quote]
Because Denver was actively shopping and had a few interested. Better to assure ourselves the pick (which I feel will probably be used to trade up w/ Gardner or for a vet.)

[quote]As for trading #25 and #9 to move up to #5 or #6? This would be the most idiotic thing possible. We would ultimately be trading four draft picks for one player. Since the Rickey Williams draft trade, there hasn't been a move this bad.[/quote]
I agree - I didn't like the trade for the 25 to begin with, but trading up for Edwards is RIDICULOUS! We could probably trade 9 and Gardner and trade with MN, AZ, or Tampa.

The talk about this years draft being weak is kind of misleading. Though, as a whole, the draft is weak. Two positions that we're really lacking in (WR and CB) are there and the talent runs deep. Granted there aren't any big stars at many positions. CB and WR are two positions where two first round picks could get you some very good players!

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

You guys think we'll take a CB or WR with the first round pick considering our new options late in the first round?

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]You guys think we'll take a CB or WR with the first round pick considering our new options late in the first round?[/QUOTE]

I'd think they would want to secure a top 3 WR with #9 and wait on CB until #25 because I think the drop off from the 3rd best WR to the second tier of WR is greater than the drop off from the 3rd best CB to the second tier of CB. IMO

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

Yeah, that sounds about right. I know a lot of people like Williamson but isn't he a clone of our other receivers? Fast and small?

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Yeah, that sounds about right. I know a lot of people like Williamson but isn't he a clone of our other receivers? Fast and small?[/QUOTE]

Maybe, but I think most have graded him out as better than Jacobs (who he would be closest to). He's bigger and more suited to go over the middle than Moss, and most believe he's faster and more explosive (particularly after the catch) than Jacobs. I see him as more of a complete WR with a real chance at becoming a legitimate #1 in the NFL, while Moss and Jacobs are probably always going to be best suited as #2s. No doubt though, Williams and Braylon would be much better options and instant difference makers, while Williamson should develope into a nice #1 in a year or two.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

Heres more on Williamson.

• Troy Williamson (South Carolina)
Vital statistics: 6-feet-1 3/8, 203 pounds, 4.32 in the 40.
Numbers game: Two-year starter, appeared in 34 games and had 91 receptions for 1,754 yards and 13 touchdowns. Best season came in 2004 when he posted 43 catches for 835 yards, an average of 19.4 yards per reception. Surprisingly, never had a 1,000-yard year and never scored more than four touchdowns in a season. Averaged 18.6 yards on 24 kickoff returns, and carried 12 times for 101 yards. Set a conference record for longest play from scrimmage with a 99-yard catch against Virginia in 2003. Averaged over 30 yards per touchdown catch. An all-SEC choice in 2004.
Upside: Long-limbed and angular wideout with top-end deep speed. Excellent all-around athlete, fluid, almost lithe, in his movements. Seems like he is gliding sometimes, and that plays to his advantage because cornerbacks don't seem to realize how fast he really is moving until it's too late. Has very subtle moves at the line of scrimmage to escape the jam. Knows how to knock a cornerback's hands away from him. Soft hands and can pluck the ball, makes good adjustments, catches the ball away from his body.
Downside: Because he didn't play in a big-time passing game, will have to work on his recognition skills, reading secondary rotations, and on route adjustments. Not as good a runner after the catch as Edwards or Williams. Needs to run routes sharper, and without throttling down to make cuts, and will have to become more spatially aware.
The dish: Stock has skyrocketed since the end of the 2004 season and his vertical speed and home-run potential will make him a first-round choice.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

At number nine take Carlos Rogers or trade down and get some extra picks and then get a CB. At 25, drum roll please.............. MATT JONES!

Thats the way I see it. Is it Saturday yet?

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

I'm not saying don't draft Williamson. I'm just saying we would be fine if he wasn't there. I wouldn't want to see us move down just to pick him up (personally I think he or Williams will be there at #9)

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

Some more food for thought..........here's a great article if you like a little insight into who these players are as people. Really is a must read. I love what he has to say about Edwards, Williams and Merriman.

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?id=2042636"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?id=2042636[/url]

Oh, and check out the blurb on Antrel Rolle. Pretty accurate assessment of Taylor in there.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

Now let me tell you about strength coaches. They're the people who know if a player is phony or not. Strength coaches do not hang out with slackers, and they do not promote slackers. If a strength coach says a kid is a keeper, then you elevate that kid in your mind, elevate him high into the first round. Strength coaches know. God, do they know.

When Pac Man showed up in Morgantown, W.Va., he weighed 169 pounds and ran only a 4.5 40-yard dash. Now, I'm not big on 40-yard dashes, in general, but when I hear that in two years Pac-Man gained 21 pounds and improved his 40 time to a personal best of 4.27, I do a double take. He worked at it, lived in the weight room. "My assistant says he's me, that he's 'a black Mike,' " Barwis says. "Tell me who plays with more passion and energy. And he's a leader. He's telling guys in the locker room what he expects from them."

The kid plays offense, defense, special teams and tour guide. He takes kids from a local hospital and shows them around the Mountaineer football facility. The way Edwards is Jerry Rice reincarnate, this is Darrell Green reincarnate.



I mean check that out about Pacman.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

• 9. Washington – Scouts Inc. Mike Williams, WR, USC. The right pick: Shawne Merriman, DE/LB, Maryland.
They let Fred Smoot go, because the defensive coaches felt Walt Harris would've beaten him out anyway. So when I hear they covet the cornerback Carlos Rogers out of Auburn, my response: you need a pass rush more. And have I got a pass rusher for you.

He's Shawne Merriman, from right down the street. Not that you'd want to take a walk on his street. He grew up in a crime-ridden portion of Forrestville, Md., and was so embarrassed by the crack dealers that he didn't want a home visit from the college he loved, Maryland.

Once he became a Terp, he decided he was going to somehow give a jacket to every poor kid in the D.C. area. "I was one of those kids who didn't have one," he says. But what underclassman thinks like that? Merriman organized a coat drive that first year, handed out 5,000 of them to needy kids, had single mothers crying at the mere sight of him. Never told a soul in the media about it, either. It ended up leaking out the next year, when he rounded up 7,000 coats, but this is the kind of character teams are dying for.




Two complete class acts... I really wouldn't mind ending up with either one of these guys.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

Yep, forgot to put Pac Man on my list there. After reading this article I'd be thrilled with Pac, Merriman, Edwards or Williams.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

If someone we can pull off a trade that would give us Edwards without losing both our first round picks, I'd be pumped. Honestly, I don't feel like we can lose in this situation unless we trade both first rounders.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

PSU - that is a fantastic article! It's definitely an amazing read for anyone who has some time. Wow. Love Pacman, Edwards, Williams, and now even Merriman more. Hate Rolle even more!

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

[QUOTE=PSUSkinsFan21]Some more food for thought..........here's a great article if you like a little insight into who these players are as people. Really is a must read. I love what he has to say about Edwards, Williams and Merriman.

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?id=2042636"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?id=2042636[/url]

Oh, and check out the blurb on Antrel Rolle. Pretty accurate assessment of Taylor in there.[/QUOTE]


That was a good read. I want Merriman or Edwards now.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

Yeah, and if you see that NFL Network Draft special about Merriman, you would almost PREFER him as our first pick.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

I'm still skeptical about the maneuvering. If they want Edwards they have to trade up to number 3 or 4 at LEAST. The Browns and the Bears seem keen on him not to mention the Dolphins if they decide to pass up on a RB or QB. Even if they get their man it seems like a lot to sacrifice when receiver can be such a crap shoot. I think we blew it with Buchanon. The team that got him gave up less than what we gave up just to get the number 25 spot! If we had played our cards right we could've gotten Buchanon with our third round this year and a second round next year and then gone for a receiver with #9 this year.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]PSU - that is a fantastic article! It's definitely an amazing read for anyone who has some time. Wow. Love Pacman, Edwards, Williams, and now even Merriman more. Hate Rolle even more![/QUOTE]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
I'm with you on Rolle. In these final days I've seen a lot that's got me turned off of Rolle and onto Pac and Rogers. That article may have been the final straw.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

If the Redskins are going to take a chance, I'd like to see them take a chance on that Rod Flowers guy. He could be a nice project at 6'9" 240.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Honestly - I would love this scenario:

9th Pick - Get BMW if he's on the board (whcih I personally feel he will be, I know many don't agree, but we'll find out soon!) If he IS gone, trade down a few spots (dallas/carolina maybe) and get Williamson (who I feel may be the safest pick and fits the best into our system -- williams could be the brighter star though. Risk vs Reward.)

With the 25 either package it and Gardner for a decent Vet, or package them to move up a few spots, or just stay tight and get a CB, but address that need with the 25th pick.[/QUOTE]


You know daseal I was on Williams early but I am really up in the air about him, I saw a lot of highlights on him the other night and started to warm up to the guy again, but the one thing I was looking for which they didn't show is how he comes off the line when theres a CB or safety in his face, that is my only concern can he beat the press without a problem?

I still like Vincent in the second, and think we should trade down a few spots and package Gardner up to move back into the second rd, that should still net us C.Rogers or at the very least Justin Miller or F.Washington.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

offiss, I DID see highlights of him coming off the line and he got jammed by guys much smaller than him, that's why I'M worried.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]offiss, I DID see highlights of him coming off the line and he got jammed by guys much smaller than him, that's why I'M worried.[/QUOTE]


That's what I was hearing and exactly why I was looking for it, thank's MC.

Re: The DRAFT!!!!
 

Yeah, his speed and jamability are his two knocks. The problem is - we need a redzone threat, and he's the best. Overall, I feel Williamson may be the better receiver, though his routes aren't exactly crisp. One thing is though, Williams has been working with my favorite receiver of all time this offseason. Kris Carter.

I know he's not Art Monk or Charlie Brown, but I always loved the guys personallity, how he showed up on the field, and did we see how well Moss was behaved when he was around?