The everything Gruden thread
 

I've seen enough. He's not pro HC material and you can't tell me there won't be legit HC candidates available at seasons end. Things that tell me Gruden is a loser:
History. He had elite talent at many positions in Cincy and still ALWAYS lost the big game.
Leadership. He doesn't have any. You look for a well prepared and focused team, and hasn't mustered that in a single game this season.
More on leadership, he's completely failed handling the QB situation. You don't shit on the only QB to lead a team to the playoffs in almost 10 years, especially when the rest of your group is playing like garbage.
Individual player concerns. Trent Williams is a good example. He's fat slow and undisciplined under Gruden. That tells me he's not buying in, he went from a pro bowl LT to subpar in less than a season.
Playcalling and game decisions. Need I say more after today? It's worse than Zorn. Enough said.

Personally I'd like a really tough defense minded coach to come in as HC. It's time for a clean sweep of the coaching staff. I hope Snyder has already started the search.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

The blame lays at Gruden's feet cause he's the HC, but these players are just terrible.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

I don't want him to be one and done. I want to see what he can do when he has legit weapons and depth at most positions.

Although if we could get a proven winner and a coach who KNOWS what type of atmosphere they're entering into once they set foot in Redskins Park and what they're working with, I would not be opposed to ousting him.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1096989]I don't want him to be one and done. I want to see what he can do when he has legit weapons and depth at most positions.

Although if we could get a proven winner and a coach who KNOWS what type of atmosphere they're entering into once they set foot in Redskins Park and what they're working with, I would not be opposed to ousting him.[/quote]

Can we fire him and hire his brother and argue that is what we meant to do in the first place?

j/k :-)

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

The only way I'd be in favor of a change is if Snyder hires a real GM to run the football ops. Otherwise gotta give Gruden a real shot, meaning at least another year.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1096993]The only way I'd be in favor of a change is if Snyder hires a real GM to run the football ops. Otherwise gotta give Gruden a real shot, meaning at least another year.[/quote]

But who would be a legitimate GM choice at this point?

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Washington will probably fire him because this organization is that idiotic. This team will take years to fix. There are plenty of coaches that walked into similar situations and sucked their first year... then turned it around.

This isn't San Fran/Detroit/Kansas City or even Cleveland who already had some talent. This team has terrible players that would be back-ups or role players on most teams. I believe Allen/Gruden are in the process of blowing it all up, similar to what Seattle did and these are just the growing pains.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Breathe in....Breathe out....

I really think Gruden is part of the solution. I'm sure he's still learning the ropes of being the Head Coach.

It's obvious the o-line needs re-vamped and the secondary needs better players.

His failing is probably not being more vocal for o-line upgrades, but can anyone imagine how much his head was spinning during the off-season just trying to watch film, evaluate players he doesn't see every day, etc.?

He deserves at least another year in my opinion before we "blow it all up" AGAIN.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1096993]The only way I'd be in favor of a change is if Snyder hires a real GM to run the football ops. Otherwise gotta give Gruden a real shot, meaning at least another year.[/quote]

I agree with this. We desperately need a really GM.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1096993]The only way I'd be in favor of a change is if Snyder hires a real GM to run the football ops. Otherwise gotta give Gruden a real shot, meaning at least another year.[/quote]

This. Def got to get a new defensive coordinator. Rg3 is too connected to mcvay, so I think he should most likely go as well

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Fire the coach after one year??? You want to know why the Redskins are a perpetual cluster fuck? It's because Dan Snyder is just like some of you guys. In a way, you both deserve each other.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1096989]I don't want him to be one and done. I want to see what he can do when he has legit weapons and depth at most positions.

Although if we could get a proven winner and a coach who KNOWS what type of atmosphere they're entering into once they set foot in Redskins Park and what they're working with, I would not be opposed to ousting him.[/quote]

I always like your posts and generally agree with everything you say - But - we had Mike Shanahan, who was a proven winner, and who also knew what was going on in Redskins park. Shanahan said the same things about RG that Gruden is saying now. If Gruden is fired and RG3 survives, by next year, we will have seen that 3 Head Coaches benched RG3, has something like that ever happened before??

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Revis just got beat like a rag doll by Jordy nelsen

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

As it is, no one who is qualified should want this job, and now you guys want to fire the 8th coach in 15 years. That does not make any sense.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Lauvao, Chester and Compton suck, a blocking TE is needed. Replacing this players on O will help. On D, Haslett, Meriweather, Clark, Riley, Jenkins, Golston, Bowen, Biggers, Porter have to go. Need some athletic LB's like Robinson and DL help.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Shanahan didn't do crap without Elway


[quote=SolidSnake84;1097024]I always like your posts and generally agree with everything you say - But - we had Mike Shanahan, who was a proven winner, and who also knew what was going on in Redskins park. Shanahan said the same things about RG that Gruden is saying now. If Gruden is fired and RG3 survives, by next year, we will have seen that 3 Head Coaches benched RG3, has something like that ever happened before??[/quote]

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

I feel like Snyder has shown pretty remarkable patience with his coaches since Gibbs II, which shouldn't surprise because Gibbs probably mentored him. He gave Zorn a 2nd year, total mistake. He gave Shanahan way too long.

Real leaders make the best of what they have. Everybody knows this is a bad team, but we're seeing some of our best players regress under Gruden. There's no defending that fact.

Also curious how much I put Gruden had in the last off-season?? Roberts was a really stupid move, total waste of cap space and a position. We could have gotten the same, probably better results with Tana at that position and he was already on the roster for f sakes.

I appreciate everybody's viewpoint, when there's so much wrong on gameday it's hard to say what the most glaring problem is.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1096981]I've seen enough. He's not pro HC material and you can't tell me there won't be legit HC candidates available at seasons end. Things that tell me Gruden is a loser:
History. He had elite talent at many positions in Cincy and still ALWAYS lost the big game.
Leadership. He doesn't have any. You look for a well prepared and focused team, and hasn't mustered that in a single game this season.
More on leadership, he's completely failed handling the QB situation. You don't shit on the only QB to lead a team to the playoffs in almost 10 years, especially when the rest of your group is playing like garbage.
Individual player concerns. Trent Williams is a good example. He's fat slow and undisciplined under Gruden. That tells me he's not buying in, he went from a pro bowl LT to subpar in less than a season.
Playcalling and game decisions. Need I say more after today? It's worse than Zorn. Enough said.

Personally I'd like a really tough defense minded coach to come in as HC. It's time for a clean sweep of the coaching staff. I hope Snyder has already started the search.[/quote]

Trent Williams has been playing hurt. He literally limped to the huddle after every play today. He held the guy he was matched up against because he was hurt. Trent did not have a good game overall and had a few bad plays

He was hurt in a game that means nothing he still went out and gave maximum effort. He was chasing the defender down the field after the turnover.

You are wrong about Williams.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=VTSkins1961;1097030]Shanahan didn't do crap without Elway[/quote]

I agree but the argument was that we needed a HC who was a winner and knew what he was getting into here. Regardless of John Elway or not, Shanahan does have those super bowl rings.

That's like saying Bill Belicheck isn't crap without Tom Brady. The future may show that, who can say...

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

I'm done even trying to defend my position on these issues...I'm going to respond with a number for today

6

It's a missing stat in the discussion about today's game it seems.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

I dont get the Gruden hate already.
Hes not even done with his first season.
WTF....I bet you guys walk out of a movie after the first 15 minutes.
Grudens beginning is very similar to Joe Gibbs......

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Hijinx;1097027]As it is, no one who is qualified should want this job, and now you guys want to fire the 8th coach in 15 years. That does not make any sense.[/quote]

There is always someone who is qualified who will want to get paid $5MM per year to be one of only 32 NFL coaches in the world.

What has Gruden done to make you think he's worth keeping?

Personally, I think the Redskins should rid themselves of anyone on their staff who has ever had any connection with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers or Florida Tuskers. They all suck at their jobs.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1097060][B]There is always someone who is qualified who will want to get paid $5MM per year to be one of only 32 NFL coaches in the world.
[/B]
What has Gruden done to make you think he's worth keeping?

Personally, I think the Redskins should rid themselves of anyone on their staff who has ever had any connection with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers or Florida Tuskers. They all suck at their jobs.[/quote]

They see those dollar signs and the NFL label. Like Shanahan, dude wanted to get paid, he didn't have a care in the world about winning by the time his tenure was over. I just want a coach who is willing to try to turn a lump of shit into The Hope Diamond come hell or high water.

...and actually try. With a FO that will support him.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=CASKINS;1097050]I'm done even trying to defend my position on these issues...I'm going to respond with a number for today

6

It's a missing stat in the discussion about today's game it seems.[/quote]
Sacks.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1097058]I dont get the Gruden hate already.
Hes not even done with his first season.
WTF....I bet you guys walk out of a movie after the first 15 minutes.
Grudens beginning is very similar to Joe Gibbs......[/quote]

If it's a bad movie, I'll walk out.

Gibbs learned fast when JKK threatened to fire him after he lost his first five games. Joe had better players, of course.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1097063]They see those dollar signs and the NFL label. Like Shanahan, dude wanted to get paid, he didn't have a care in the world about winning by the time his tenure was over. [B]I just want a coach who is willing to try to turn a lump of shit into The Hope Diamond come hell or high water. [/B]

...and actually try. With a FO that will support him.[/quote]

Now, that there is funny; I don't care who you are.

I'm picturing King Kong squeezing a lump of shit as hard as he can. The new team logo, perhaps?

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

I liked Grudens honest approach to criticizing players, but at some point he has to detract blame from the players and put it on the coaches.
If not, he will lose credibility.
RG3 was trashed for putting down the team.
Gruden has been given a pass because players dont want to snap back at the head coach but if I'm on offense, I'm wondering where are the harsh words for the special teams and defensive coaching staff.

This is a good ole boy team and we wont see progress till Bruce is gone and we hire the best guy for the job not just some coaching staff that plays well with the GM.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1097035]Trent Williams has been playing hurt. He literally limped to the huddle after every play today. He held the guy he was matched up against because he was hurt. Trent did not have a good game overall and had a few bad plays

He was hurt in a game that means nothing he still went out and gave maximum effort. He was chasing the defender down the field after the turnover.

You are wrong about Williams.[/quote]

I didn't see him limping. Saw him standing still on many plays. At least 2 penalties and I think 2 sacks on him. He also looks about 25 lbs heavier with pure fat around the middle. Slow and unmotivated. But ok we can agree to disagree on Trent.

There's other key players who've regressed under Gruden. Morris. D Young. Garçon. I think the scheme mostly sucks and Gruden doesn't know how to adjust his offense around players skill, which is factor número uno to be a great coach. It's what makes Belichick the best coach on football today. His offensive scheme has morphed around his players, the offense today is thing like what he and Brady did with Moss for instance.

Gruden hasn't shown anything that deserves keeping this job. I can't find one thing he's doing well or better than his predecessor. So it's like if we can't find somebody better, that's a shame. It all starts with the HC.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

Trent isn't the problem.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[QUOTE=Rotten1980;1097071]I didn't see him limping. Saw him standing still on many plays. At least 2 penalties and I think 2 sacks on him. He also looks about 25 lbs heavier with pure fat around the middle. Slow and unmotivated. But ok we can agree to disagree on Trent.



There's other key players who've regressed under Gruden. Morris. D Young. Garçon. I think the scheme mostly sucks and Gruden doesn't know how to adjust his offense around players skill, which is factor número uno to be a great coach. It's what makes Belichick the best coach on football today. His offensive scheme has morphed around his players, the offense today is thing like what he and Brady did with Moss for instance.



Gruden hasn't shown anything that deserves keeping this job. I can't find one thing he's doing well or better than his predecessor. So it's like if we can't find somebody better, that's a shame. It all starts with the HC.[/QUOTE]


You really couldn't be more wrong about Trent. That dude is a baller, been playing hurt all year in games that mean nothing, still gives everything he has for this team.

And what if the Redskins can't find any better with regards to head coach? You honestly think guys are jumping at the idea of coming to coach this team? Especially now that it looks like we are back to square one at the QB position. Gotta get back to reality man, this team flat out sucks. We fall flat on our face week in and week out. The skins are 3-17 over their last 20 games with two different head coaches, and 3 different QB's. That's not a sign of bad coaching, it's a sign of a poorly run franchise. I really don't think firing Gruden after one season helps us in anyway.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1097072]Trent isn't the problem.[/quote]

Hello straw man! Nobody said Trent was the problem.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1097080]Hello straw man! Nobody said Trent was the problem.[/quote]

Then why are we talking about him at all?

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1097081]Then why are we talking about him at all?[/quote]

He is implying that it is Gruden's fault that Trent is playing hurt and not doing as well as he has the past two years under Mike.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

My beer is flat @#$+*#!{} Gruden!

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=mlmdub130;1097077]You really couldn't be more wrong about Trent. That dude is a baller, been playing hurt all year in games that mean nothing, still gives everything he has for this team.

And what if the Redskins can't find any better with regards to head coach? You honestly think guys are jumping at the idea of coming to coach this team? Especially now that it looks like we are back to square one at the QB position. Gotta get back to reality man, this team flat out sucks. We fall flat on our face week in and week out. The skins are 3-17 over their last 20 games with two different head coaches, and 3 different QB's. That's not a sign of bad coaching, it's a sign of a poorly run franchise. I really don't think firing Gruden after one season helps us in anyway.[/quote]

You bring up a good point about coaching candidates. Maybe looking at Grudens class is helpful? Cleveland, Detroit, Houston, Tampa all got new coaches along with DC. The only team with elite talent is Detroit, but every team improved a lot record wise with Tampa an exception. Though they just kicked Grudens teeth in lol. He was the worst hire. Why can't we do better?? That's really what I'm asking, every season quality HC talent is available, why do we have to end up with a loser who's totally over his head. It's zorn.2 but y'all don't want to accept it yet.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1097081]Then why are we talking about him at all?[/quote]

Because he's one of several offensive players who've regressed playing for Gruden. This is Trent's worst year as a pro, is that not obvious to everyone??

His bad year is a symptom of the problem, that's what I'm saying. When your probowl LT is causing penalties left and right, allowing sacks on the QB and looks out of shape and generally sloppy there's a major problem with team leadership. If not the HC, who do you look at??

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1097087]Because he's one of several offensive players who've regressed playing for Gruden. This is Trent's worst year as a pro, is that not obvious to everyone??

His bad year is a symptom of the problem, that's what I'm saying. When your probowl LT is causing penalties left and right, allowing sacks on the QB and looks out of shape and generally sloppy there's a major problem with team leadership. If not the HC, who do you look at??[/quote]

He's been dinged up most of the year. I think that's his main issue not the HC. Probably a dozen better reasons you could have pointed out IMO.

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;1097088]He's been dinged up most of the year. I think that's his main issue not the HC. Probably a dozen better reasons you could have pointed out IMO.[/quote]

Reasons why key players have obviously regressed that don't fall on the offensive HC, let's hear em??

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

We're all on the same page, Gruden doesnt "do" defense and this is his offense, yes??

Re: The everything Gruden thread
 

[quote=Rotten1980;1097091]Reasons why key players have obviously regressed that don't fall on the offensive HC, let's hear em??[/quote]

Have we really regressed though? Last year the offense was ranked 23rd in points and 9th in yards. This year we're 22nd and 11th. Mostly the same players, slightly different schemes, same results. Again heading for a top 3 pick.