Another Bad Character
 

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2054749[/url]

Wow - has a 20,000 dollar bike and refuses to wear a helmet whatsoever, even though PA law doesn't require one. Won't listen to his coach, and since he's "careful" he'll be fine! Rip into big ben guys - tell him how he's screwing the people of Pittsburgh!

Re: Another Bad Character
 

dont blame him for the steelers not putting it in writing...and as well something he was doing probably before he was drafted

Re: Another Bad Character
 

Unbelievable that someone who makes his living using his body would take such chances by not wearing a helmet. However from the way it sounds he's not doing wheelies or acting the fool on his bike. I also bet he has a chopper style not a crotch rocket.

My favortie line of that article was about him not wearing a helmet:[i] "If I fall off a Jet Ski, I hit the water, and I like my odds," Porter said. "I'm going to get wet. What I say about motorcycles is that concrete is undefeated."

[/i]So far this offseason it is concrete 1 and NFL players zip.:)

Re: Another Bad Character
 

Let's see. He hasn't been injured yet, so I fail to see how "he's screwing the people of Pittsburgh". He's also not popping wheelies and trying to do tricks his first time on his bike like Winslow. In fact, the article notes:

"He talked about being a risk taker and I'm not really a risk taker. I'm pretty conservative and laid back, but the big thing is to just be careful," Roethlisberger said as the Steelers opened their minicamp. "I'll just continue to be careful. I told him we don't ever ride alone, we always ride in a group of people, and I think it makes it even more safe."

You see, there's a smart way of doing things, and then there's the Winslow way. You can drive your brand new Corvette Z06 safely, or you can drive it at 160 down the highway. The mere existence of the Corvette doesn't mean you don't know how to drive safely. I'd be just as hard on any player who crashed their car while drunk driving or racing or trying to do tricks as I was on Winslow. So while Ben is not choosing the safest form of transportation out there, I've seen nothing to show that he's throwing caution completely to the wind and driving like an idiot.

And let's see, what else? Oh yah, there's no mention of a specific clause in Big Ben's contract forbidding him from riding a motorcycle like Winslow.

And it appears he has a license to ride, or I'm sure they would have mentioned that in the article.

So, I think I'd tell him he's not making the smartest decision by riding a motorcycle and risking serious injury, but considering he appears to be riding responsibly with other people and not doing tricks in a parking lot just begging to be hurt like Winslow, I don't think this would classify as a "character" concern. Question the wisdom of his choice to ride? Absolutely. Cowher was right that you've only got a short time in football, so you should take precautions to avoid injury. But considering Big Ben "Another Bad Character"? That seems a little strong to me. After all, he's not spouting off at teammates like TO, and I don't recall him ever having the balls to compare himself to a soldier or anything (ala moron Winslow), and he's never really displayed that attitude that sickens me like Feddie Mitchell, TO, Moss, etc., so I don't think I'm willing to call him a bad character just yet. In fact I wouldn't have questioned Winslow's character if the first problem he ever encountered was crashing his bike. Leaving it at the bike accident alone, that would have just been a really stupid decision. Looking at the whole package, Winslow is a train wreck waiting to happen.

Re: Another Bad Character
 

"he's screwing the people of Pittsburgh" I was quoting someone who said if Winslow rides a bike he's screwing the people of cleveland.

I'm pretty sure all Rookie contracts have that clause now, especially for first round picks. I'd also like to know for sure if someone can find out.

Riding a bike is stupid or not, but people get up in arms about Winslow riding a bike, but don't care about Big Ben? So what, Winslow was stupid. No one debates that, but this doesn't make Ben any smarter.

BTW - you missed the joke, PSUskinsfan. I'm just saying Winslow is labeled a bad guy and an idiot, but it's fine for Ben. Hello, media spin. Meet everyone else!

Re: Another Bad Character
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Riding a bike is stupid or not, but people get up in arms about Winslow riding a bike, but don't care about Big Ben? So what, Winslow was stupid. No one debates that, but this doesn't make Ben any smarter.[/QUOTE]

If Ben isn't popping wheelies on a bike he just got, he is most certainly being smarter about his riding than Winslow. Hence my Corvette analogy. There is a smart way of riding or driving any motor vehicle, and there is a stupid way of doing it. Doing tricks = stupid. Riding sensibly with a pack = smarter.

[QUOTE]BTW - you missed the joke, PSUskinsfan. I'm just saying Winslow is labeled a bad guy and an idiot, but it's fine for Ben. Hello, media spin. Meet everyone else![/QUOTE]

I didn't miss anything. I know what you were trying to do. I know sarcasm as well as anyone, trust me on that. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I missed your point.

My point, in case YOU missed it, is that the two are not the same. Even though you'd like to disregard it, there is more to Winslow's story than simply that he was riding a motorcycle. And there are more reasons to question Winslow's character than simply this most recent incident. As such, I don't believe the two situations are analogous. I don't think it has anything to do with media spin at all. It has to do with one moron driving too fast in a parking lot, trying to do tricks on a new crotch rocket that he just got and didn't know how to ride yet without a license and crashing that bike, thereby receiving numerous injuries, not the least of which could be a torn ACL that would sideline him for the year..............and another guy who is making a questionable decision by riding a motorcycle without a helmet while driving responsibly. That has nothing to do with media spin. Those are the facts. Plain and simple. The reason Winslow is an idiot is because he tried being Evil Knevil (sp?) before even knowing how to ride in a straight line. Until Ben is caught doing the same, I see no reason to lable Ben as being as stupid as Winslow.

Re: Another Bad Character
 

Reports said Winslow was going 30 MPH. That's not that fast in an empty parkinglot. Listen, he's stupid. I concede that fully, but on a bike it doesn't matter how careful you are, if anything small happens you're dead, especially without a helmet.

I just don't think you can crucify one without at least labeling the other along with it. Yeah, he did a wheelie. Dumbass, but you can just as easily die on the highway riding responsibly. Not to mention, his coached asked him to stop and he said no.

Re: Another Bad Character
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Reports said Winslow was going 30 MPH. That's not that fast in an empty parkinglot. Listen, he's stupid. I concede that fully, but on a bike it doesn't matter how careful you are, if anything small happens you're dead, especially without a helmet.

I just don't think you can crucify one without at least labeling the other along with it. Yeah, he did a wheelie. Dumbass, but you can just as easily die on the highway riding responsibly. Not to mention, his coached asked him to stop and he said no.[/QUOTE]


I agree. I think there is a media double standard here. If it was TO or someone refusing to give up their chopper and refusing to even wear a freaking helmet you better believe the sports punditry would be all over it. I don't see how anyone can reasonably criticize Winslow and then turn around and say what Ben is doing isn't equally bad.

Re: Another Bad Character
 

[QUOTE=Hijinx]Unbelievable that someone who makes his living using his body would take such chances by not wearing a helmet. However from the way it sounds he's not doing wheelies or acting the fool on his bike. I also bet he has a chopper style not a crotch rocket.

My favortie line of that article was about him not wearing a helmet:[i] "If I fall off a Jet Ski, I hit the water, and I like my odds," Porter said. "I'm going to get wet. What I say about motorcycles is that concrete is undefeated."

[/i]So far this offseason it is concrete 1 and NFL players zip.:)[/QUOTE]


for starters everybody makes there living using there body. i know if i got hurt i couldnt work thats where insurance comes into play. second i have a so called crotch rocket and ill tell you its just as easy to crash a harley if not easier because rice rockets are much more nimble. lastly i cant blame these guys for not wanting to live there lives walking on eggshells. just because they make millions they still need to live.

Re: Another Bad Character
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Reports said Winslow was going 30 MPH. That's not that fast in an empty parkinglot. Listen, he's stupid. I concede that fully, but on a bike it doesn't matter how careful you are, if anything small happens you're dead, especially without a helmet.

I just don't think you can crucify one without at least labeling the other along with it. Yeah, he did a wheelie. Dumbass, but you can just as easily die on the highway riding responsibly. Not to mention, his coached asked him to stop and he said no.[/QUOTE]

I'm more than willing to concede that motorcycles are dangerous at any speed. And a bike v. a car on the highway has no chance. Agreed. To me though, and it's just my opinion, the distinction is in how you handle that bike and what you're doing on it. Using it as a form of transportation I have no problem with. Using it as a toy I have issues with.

And I will label Ben as being stupid for not wearing a helmet. But then again I think anyone who rides without a helmet isn't showing enough care for their own well-being (and I really hope I'm not offending anyone by saying that......sorry if I am).

And maybe it would be a bigger deal if it was TO, Moss, etc., etc. But that's only because those guys, just like Winslow, have done things in the past that calls into question their character/maturity/decision-making/attitude whatever. Ben, has not. Ben, right now, has only one mark against him: he rides without a helmet. Ben is loved by his teammates, he's always appeared to be a team guy, he's never come off as cocky, brash, arrogant, bigger and better than the rest of the world, etc. As such, it shouldn't be as news worthy that he simply rides and has never been hurt doing it.

Winslow, is a loud mouth. To many (including me) he is a punk, and was a punk long before this "accident". The fact that he's drawn so much attention to himself in the past only acts as a magnifier when something like this happens. But who's fault is that? Did the media make him call himself a soldier? Did the media make him call out the Skins on draft day? Did the media give him the attitude he has? Did the media make him get on a bike he doesn't have a license for and start doing tricks? No. He brought all of those things on himself. So he's got no reason to complain if people pay more attention when he does, yet ANOTHER, stupid thing.

I just don't think it's a double standard all things considered. Again, it'd be one thing if Ben got hurt, ran his mouth in the past, or rode like an idiot. He hasn't. If he had, it'd be a better example of a double standard. But right now, the two share only one thing in common: they ride motorcycles (or at least Ben rides motorcycles ...... Kevin crashes them). Therefore, I don't have a problem criticizing Winslow more for what everyone should concede is worse behavior (i.e. doing tricks on a bike you are still learning to ride).

Re: Another Bad Character
 

I grew up riding motorcycles on and off road, and the fact is anyone who rides without a helmet is a fool, end of story. So to say he's not as bad as Winslow in the stupidity department is a vast understatement, I haven't heard that Winslow wasen't wearing a helmet so I have to assume he was, which makes Big Ben a real dummy, I am not just talking about his football career either it's his life, I don't care how careful you are you can't control the other guy, and it only takes 1.

Re: Another Bad Character
 

WInslow was wearing an unstrapped helmet.

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[QUOTE=Daseal]WInslow was wearing an unstrapped helmet.[/QUOTE]


Might as well not been wearing one at all if it was unstrapped.

Re: Another Bad Character
 

Why should I treat two very different people the same way?

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[QUOTE=skinsguy]Might as well not been wearing one at all if it was unstrapped.[/QUOTE]
KWII's injuries were not head injuries, so that's a moot point.

Re: Another Bad Character
 

The law is irrelevant. It is a matter of safety. It's about knowing the statistics of the survival rate of those who wear helmets and those who don’t. Pavement always wins and sooner or later it's going to beat you. How bad is up to you.

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[QUOTE=redskinsskickazz]for starters everybody makes there living using there body. i know if i got hurt i couldnt work thats where insurance comes into play. second i have a so called crotch rocket and ill tell you its just as easy to crash a harley if not easier because rice rockets are much more nimble. lastly i cant blame these guys for not wanting to live there lives walking on eggshells. just because they make millions they still need to live.[/QUOTE]


Not everybody would be unable to preform their jobs with a torn ACL(the injury that may end his season). Most jobs in the USA at least do not require phycial activity at all. Most rice burners have a much higher acceleration and power to weight ratio, making them FAR more dangerous to a novice rider. Choppers and Harleys are made for road cruising and crotch rockets are made for speed. This is however a moot point in that the bike itself is less a factor than the person on it. The fact is usally the type of person on a chopper is chilling just enjoying his ride and the person on a rice burner is the type to be speeding and weaving quickly in and out of traffic. Not to say you are this type, it is just a fact. Every time I see someone riding safely on a bike its a chopper style and every time I get passed by a fool who is going 95+ mph its a rice burner.

No one says someone has to live sealed in a box. But in the case of KW2 he was acting stupidly.
A)not wearing his helmet right
B)speeding in a small space(he was up to 50 mphin that lot)
C)no licence
D)no training
E)buying a powerful bike that was above his experience level
F)Wheelies
G)trying to reproduce stunts he saw in a PROFESSIONAL bike act

No one MADE him sign that contract, he agreed to its terms. It said he can't ride motorcylces so he shouldn't. If he didn't like it he shouldn't have signed the damn thing.

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It's two completely different situations here.

Still, both guys are idiots for gambling their careers like this.

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72]It's two completely different situations here.

Still, both guys are idiots for gambling their careers like this.[/QUOTE]


And lives. Both really dumb.

Re: Another Bad Character
 

Agreed. They're both idiots. The bottom line is that these guys want to have their cake and eat it too. The upside of being a professional athlete is infinite. The downside is giving up some of the liberties that regular Joes can take. If they're going to take the millions of dollars that come with the job, they'd better be prepared to give up a few things -- living dangerously is almost certainly one of them.

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They're both idiots, no matter how you cut it. Just because one guy crashed and another didn't, it doesn't mean they should be treated differently.

They're both putting their futures, their teammates' chances of winning Super Bowls, and the fans' desire to have a Super Bowl winner at risk.

One could say Big Ben is risking even more than Winslow, since the Steelers' Super Bowl hopes are more heavily dependent on Ben than the Browns' hopes are on Winslow.

IMO, riding a motorbike safely with all safety equipment, following all speed limits, and following all traffic signals, even doing everything as you're supposed to, it's still a stupid thing to do. Why drive a motorbike when you can drive a car. I just don't get it. I guess some people find motorcycles fun, but man, there are other fun things to do. Now that view is extreme on my part, so I'm not going to push that on people. But since Big Ben wasn't wearing a helmet, I gotta rip into him. That's just flat out retarded.

Re: Another Bad Character
 

It's his choice to be making but how freakin retard of an excuse is: the helmet law was amended so because it doesn't say I have too, I won't wear a helmet!!! I thought he did a heck of a job as a rookie to come in and lead that team like he did last year, but this definitely counts as a couple notches against his intelligence.

Both players are making or made dumb choices but yet one person still has the choice of learning from the other's mistake cuz Winslow's injury isn't just screwing up his season but it also screws up the season of his teammates as well.

Re: Another Bad Character
 

I think for Roethlisberger to argue that he doesn't have to wear a helmet because there is no law requiring it is rather lame. This is why we have laws I guess, for those who are too ignorant to act sensibly on their own. I mean would he really step on the football field without a helmet if the league said it was fine? Wonder how long that would last

However, I don't know where the media spin is in all this

Re: Another Bad Character
 

A very interesting article in the [URL=http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1115458472326800.xml]Cleveland Plains-Dealer[/URL] about Winslow and his fascination with bikes. If what is being reported is true, Winslow showed dizzyingly poor judgement. This goes beyond "going 30 in a parking lot learning to ride".

Re: Another Bad Character
 

I have been racing and riding all my life. I can personally (after many brush's with disaster) attest that people who don't wear helmuts are just plain stupid, and don't value their head. Unfortunately, when you figure it out, it's way late! It IS the difference between life and not!!!

Re: Another Bad Character
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]A very interesting article in the [url="http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1115458472326800.xml"]Cleveland Plains-Dealer[/url] about Winslow and his fascination with bikes. If what is being reported is true, Winslow showed dizzyingly poor judgement. This goes beyond "going 30 in a parking lot learning to ride".[/QUOTE]

Chalk up another reason for me to absolutely Loathe Kellen Winslow. Terrorizing a neighborhood with kids in it by riding up and down the street 15 times doing tricks. Real mature.

I just seriously can't find one redeeming quality in the person of Kellen Winslow II. Not one.

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alas. i have never seen anyone with such total disregard to his team. but he takes the cake. especially after refusing to take safety lessons. also, to all mothers out there, happy mothers day.

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I hate to be the stick in the mud but, I don't care about other teams' players. :oink:

Re: Another Bad Character
 

Cris Carter was on Sirius NFL Radio saying that he had the exact same crash Winslow had. Carter was in a parking lot learning how to ride a bike his wife bought him for his retirement (because he wouldn't ride one while he was under contract). Anyway, he said he did the same thing from what he had heard. However, the difference was he was retired. He said that athletes have to treat their bodies like a corporation. You have to protect it and take care of it. He said that it wasn't worth the gamble to him when he was playing, despite the fact that he always wanted one. He said he loves it and rides it all the time now, but he could see how any novice rider could crash such a powerful bike.

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They don't call them donor-cycles for nothing.

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[QUOTE=BossHog]I hate to be the stick in the mud but, I don't care about other teams' players. :oink:[/QUOTE]

You should. I'm not sure how you'd ever be able to offer any valuable opinion on whether the Redskins should acquire a certain free agent. Gotta keep up with the rest of the league too.

Re: Another Bad Character
 

The Browns should take back every penny they can from him. If he was just out riding a bike thats one thing but he went way overboard.

Re: Another Bad Character
 

[QUOTE=Daseal][url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2054749"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2054749[/url]

Wow - has a 20,000 dollar bike and refuses to wear a helmet whatsoever, even though PA law doesn't require one. Won't listen to his coach, and since he's "careful" he'll be fine! Rip into big ben guys - tell him how he's screwing the people of Pittsburgh![/QUOTE]Thats kind of a cheap bike for an NFL starting QB. You think he would have a decked out Harley or somthing like that.

Re: Another Bad Character
 

20 g's is a lot for a motorcycle right? :oink:

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Yeah, that's what I thought. It's probably his "fun" bike. He has the Bentleys and Harleys at home.