Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

I'll try to keep it general to start with and limit my comments, leaving the comments on individual players to others.

[U]Plus[/U]

Defense

Hustle on defense; lots of gang tackling
Defense stopped the run for the most part
Better pressure on the passer this week
The safeties showed up and made some plays

Offense

The run game was effective
Offense avoided penalties and false starts
Moved the ball and scored TD's under Colt and Kirk

ST

Had one long punt return
Covered kicks well
59-yard punt with no return

[U]Minus[/U]

Defense

Too many missed tackles
CB depth looked suspect

Offense

Poor pass protection
Too many fumbles

ST

Lost another key player (Hayward)

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

No pluses as far as I'm concerned.
Our first team offense couldn't do squat.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

OL was just brutal, don't know how anyone can fairly judge Griffin with the way he was under constant and often instant pressure.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=Mattyk;1117121]OL was just brutal, don't know how anyone can fairly judge Griffin with the way he was under constant and often instant pressure.[/quote]

Willie smith was terrible. Luavo and Moses were decent I thought.

and the schreff play was bad, But rg3 could have moved to his left or step up in the pocket on the play. Developing a stronger pocket presence is part of his development which he was terrible again. He needs to keep his eyes up and feel these rushes

The one play where the linebacker ran free on a delayed blitz; rg3 needs to see this and move accordingly.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=Mattyk;1117121]OL was just brutal, don't know how anyone can fairly judge Griffin with the way he was under constant and often instant pressure.[/quote]

Who would have thought that the OL would play so poorly that it would partially mask that Griffin is a terrible QB? Yet he managed to once again show that he is indecisive, lacks the necessary instincts for the position, is a fumbler, and is not durable.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

Not many pluses thats for sure.
Our first string defense hasnt stopped anybody so far in preseason.The only thing that stopped Stafford was a dropped pass on 3rd down.
We lose another guy for the season,we already sucked at special teams now we lose another one of our best players on st.
And then theres VY2.Like Matty said it was hard to judge his performance because of the pressure,but the fumbles are on him.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=Mattyk;1117121]OL was just brutal, don't know how anyone can fairly judge Griffin with the way he was under constant and often instant pressure.[/quote]

Can someone explain why that happens to Griffin and not our other QB's?
This has been happening to him since yr 2.Has any other qb in the league taken as many brutal hits in a dropback situation as Griff?
Then Kirk or Colt steps in and its completely different.Sure the qb's get pressure,but it's nothing like with Griff and they certainly dont absorb the same hits as Griff does.
This concussion just fcks things up even more.I gauranfukintee you if Griff sits out next week it wont matter how good his replacement does Griff will still be named the starter week 1.
I dont see him being successful unless we go back to the pistol,which is not going to happen.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1117120]No pluses as far as I'm concerned.
Our first team offense couldn't do squat.[/quote]

Tress Way baby.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1117127]Can someone explain why that happens to Griffin and not our other QB's?
This has been happening to him since yr 2.Has any other qb in the league taken as many brutal hits in a dropback situation as Griff?
Then Kirk or Colt steps in and its completely different.Sure the qb's get pressure,but it's nothing like with Griff and they certainly dont absorb the same hits as Griff does.
This concussion just fcks things up even more.I gauranfukintee you if Griff sits out next week it wont matter how good his replacement does Griff will still be named the starter week 1.
I dont see him being successful unless we go back to the pistol,which is not going to happen.[/quote]

I am concerned that Kirk or McCoy will not get much time in the pocket if the line continues to play the way that they played yesterday. And this has nothing to do with RG3, the line was horrible yesterday period. No QB can be successful if they continue to play like this.

Maybe having Trent back will make a difference. Having this o-line play well is probably one of the more important pieces for the future of this team. They'll get tested next week against another top defense.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[QUOTE=htownskinfan;1117127]Can someone explain why that happens to Griffin and not our other QB's?

This has been happening to him since yr 2.Has any other qb in the league taken as many brutal hits in a dropback situation as Griff?

Then Kirk or Colt steps in and its completely different.Sure the qb's get pressure,but it's nothing like with Griff and they certainly dont absorb the same hits as Griff does.

This concussion just fcks things up even more.I gauranfukintee you if Griff sits out next week it wont matter how good his replacement does Griff will still be named the starter week 1.

I dont see him being successful unless we go back to the pistol,which is not going to happen.[/QUOTE]


Was Cousins or McCoy playing against #1's?

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=Mattyk;1117132]Was Cousins or McCoy playing against #1's?[/quote]

I'm not just talking about last nights game.Since Griff's 2nd yr this has been a pattern.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

I shocked folks here are satisfied with RG3 play last night.

Regardless of the oline, tell me where he has improved. Where did RG3 show you growth?

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

the play he got hurt, RG3 had 2 receivers running free in the secondary.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=Chico23231;1117137]I shocked folks here are satisfied with RG3 play last night.

Regardless of the oline, tell me where he has improved. Where did RG3 show you growth?[/quote]

He hasn't, but I just don't get a boner complaining about him like some folks do here. Nor do I think Cousins is the second coming of Montana.

Bigger issues for this team moving forward is the offensive line and the running game. People are so obsessed bitching about RG3, they forget the fact that the o-line looked bad. And that needs to be fixed because we don't have stability in the QB position and we're going to need to run to hopefully win games.

The performance of the first-team defense is another bigger issue than RG3. The team put a lot of effort this offseason to improve it and they haven't shown much in two games.

I wish fans would get over the QB position. It took Pete Carroll 3 years to address that position, and while he wasn't worrying about the position he built the Seattle team that we see today.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=Chico23231;1117138]the play he got hurt, RG3 had 2 receivers running free in the secondary.[/quote]

Might even make the case for 3 of them.



[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM5oV1YWIAAd23c.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

i know people love to give Thiesman grief...well deserved in some cases...but he was dead on with Robert's inability to manuvere in the pocket. He doesnt see pressure pre snap, he doesnt react well to pressure n the pocket, and he holds the ball. If you watch Kirk, Kirk knows how to slide and step in the pocket to avoid pressure and deliever the ball.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=Chico23231;1117137]I shocked folks here are satisfied with RG3 play last night.

Regardless of the oline, tell me where he has improved. Where did RG3 show you growth?[/quote]

Who is satisfied?

Personally I just don't think he can be properly evaluated when the OL was such a major problem.

Even on quick drops he was getting hit.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=Mattyk;1117121]OL was just brutal, don't know how anyone can fairly judge Griffin with the way he was under constant and often instant pressure.[/quote]

This! He had absolutely no chance to be successful last night. The line play in pass protection was inexcusable when he was in. He was getting bushwacked back there.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

Plus, 2-0, minus, lots and lots of work to do.

RG3 needs to stay healthy. Want to see him play 16 games and see where he's at at the end of the year.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1117145]Plus, 2-0, minus, lots and lots of work to do.



RG3 needs to stay healthy. Want to see him play 16 games and see where he's at at the end of the year.[/QUOTE]


Ha! No way he plays 16 games

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

The O line didnt help RG3 last night and he didnt help the O line.

Its just more of the same from him. A dysfunctional offense when he is in there.

Ive seen enough to know that what he has been, he will continue to be.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1117140]Might even make the case for 3 of them.



[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM5oV1YWIAAd23c.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

To me that pic says it all.Listening to ESPN 980 on the way to work,they were only putting 1 sack on the off line,the other 2 he had rec's open.
For all the people that want to believe its not VY2's fault,can you find me one football analyst,ex-qb,anybody that still thinks he's any good?
Those warm fuzzy memories from his first season are clouding a lot of peoples judgement who absolutely refuse to clean off their rose colored glasses.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=Mattyk;1117132]Was Cousins or McCoy playing against #1's?[/quote]

I am the biggest RG3 homer there is. And I saw him get the snot knocked out of him last night. But why is it, when RG is knocked out of the game like last night, the next quarterback, whether Colt or Kirk immediately moves the offense with essentially the same personnel on both sides?

I mean it's like a switch is flipped, and things pretty much work. Or am I just not seeing it right?

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1117127][B]Can someone explain why that happens to Griffin and not our other QB's?
This has been happening to him since yr 2.Has any other qb in the league taken as many brutal hits in a dropback situation as Griff?[/B]
Then Kirk or Colt steps in and its completely different.Sure the qb's get pressure,but it's nothing like with Griff and they certainly dont absorb the same hits as Griff does.
This concussion just fcks things up even more.I gauranfukintee you if Griff sits out next week it wont matter how good his replacement does Griff will still be named the starter week 1.
I dont see him being successful unless we go back to the pistol,which is not going to happen.[/quote]

He appears to have low pocket awareness and doesn't make those small moves well to avoid the rush that others do. You rarely see him side stepping
someone at the last instant, he just stands there and get creamed like he didn't see them coming.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1117145]Plus, 2-0, minus, lots and lots of work to do.

RG3 needs to stay healthy. Want to see him play 16 games and see where he's at at the end of the year.[/quote]

2-0 because of back ups. Good teams don't give a hoot about winning preseason games.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

No DeSean Jackson
No Jamison Crowder
No Jordan Reed
No Niles Paul
No Logan Paulsen
No Trent Williams
No Ryan Kerrigan
No Jason Hatcher
No Junior Galette
No DeAngelo Hall
No Bashaud Breeland

Given the above, I'm not surprised with anything I have seen so far this preseason. I'm not too worried either (maybe a little worried about RGIII's health).

The O-line will get it together. I'm glad they are facing stiff competition early. Not glad they are getting bulldozed, but once the starting five have had a few weeks together I think they will be solid.

The "new" TE's will learn the offense and contribute - hopefully both blocking and receiving. Paul and Paulsen injuries are a real setback here and probably my biggest concern.

The defense will be better with our projected top two pass rushers and starting corners back in there.

I think we have a lot of quality depth which will translate into better special teams play this year.

To sum it up, if Robert can survive the preseason, and we can get all our projected starters back in there for game 1 against Miami, I think we'll be ok.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1117140]Might even make the case for 3 of them.



[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CM5oV1YWIAAd23c.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

The coaches have to be fuming mad when they see this. You can fairly evaluate him on this play. Just throw the effing ball, get your 10 yards for the punter and fight another series. This is a poster child play for RG3. Sorry but there is no way KC or McCoy take a sack fumble here. No way.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1117154]No DeSean Jackson
No Jamison Crowder
No Jordan Reed
No Niles Paul
No Logan Paulsen
No Trent Williams
No Ryan Kerrigan
No Jason Hatcher
No Junior Galette
No DeAngelo Hall
No Bashaud Breeland

Given the above, I'm not surprised with anything I have seen so far this preseason. I'm not too worried either (maybe a little worried about RGIII's health).

The O-line will get it together. I'm glad they are facing stiff competition early. Not glad they are getting bulldozed, but once the starting five have had a few weeks together I think they will be solid.

The "new" TE's will learn the offense and contribute - hopefully both blocking and receiving. Paul and Paulsen injuries are a real setback here and probably my biggest concern.

The defense will be better with our projected top two pass rushers and starting corners back in there.

I think we have a lot of quality depth which will translate into better special teams play this year.

To sum it up, if Robert can survive the preseason, and we can get all our projected starters back in there for game 1 against Miami, I think we'll be ok.[/quote]

strong post...but the only name which has really affected RG3 is obviously Trent. Maybe TE to an extent, but they arent known for blocking

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1117145]Plus, 2-0, minus, lots and lots of work to do.

RG3 needs to stay healthy. Want to see him play 16 games and see where he's at at the end of the year.[/quote]

I would say the 2-0 is a minus. Why? Because coaching isn't playing risky. They aren't coaching in a style that let's them evaluate the at risk positions. I was so infuriated at the end of the game yesterday because coaching was so unbelievably namby pamby. You get the ball with 2 minutes to go, in the 2nd preseason game. You have a FG kicker who has had a struggling camp. A qb who will start at some point in the season, very few players who an injury will hurt the team on the field, and a running game that has no questions. Do you:
A) put it on the qb's shoulders and say show some hustle, get out there and lead a 2 minute drive. TD is the goal.

B) mix it up, run and pass but tell the qb we want to take a shot at a long (45+) field goal

C) try to "stay on a roll" and win a 2nd straight preseason game with 7 straight hand offs.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

Another minus...who pissed in my kool aid?

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1117150]To me that pic says it all.Listening to ESPN 980 on the way to work,they were only putting 1 sack on the off line,the other 2 he had rec's open.
For all the people that want to believe its not VY2's fault,can you find me one football analyst,ex-qb,anybody that still thinks he's any good?
Those warm fuzzy memories from his first season are clouding a lot of peoples judgement who absolutely refuse to clean off their rose colored glasses.[/quote]

Look at the chains on that picture. It was 3rd and 16. Throwing a 5 yard out wasn't going to help. He was looking down the field for more yards, personally I like that, still can't fumble though.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=Chico23231;1117159]strong post...but the only name which has really affected RG3 is obviously Trent. Maybe TE to an extent, but they arent known for blocking[/quote]

I don't know if you could say that. I mean not having your biggest WR threat in DeSean Jackson changes what the opposing defense needs to worry about. Not having Trent creates a ripple effect along the O-line as far as communication and responsibilities go. That coupled with TEs that are still learning the offense and their own responsibilities would seem to contribute to the jail breaks we saw last night....the right side of the O-line is what it is though. They need to get better, and I believe they will.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1117146]Ha! No way he plays 16 games[/quote]

I'm a Skins fan, what I Want and what actually happens are never close lol. But I can dream.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1117153]2-0 because of back ups. Good teams don't give a hoot about winning preseason games.[/quote]

"You play to win the game"

Herm Edwards

Rather be 2-0 with lots of work to do than 0-2 with lots of work to do. And I want our backups to be better than our opponents we will need a lot of them at some point.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1117162]Look at the chains on that picture. It was 3rd and 16. Throwing a 5 yard out wasn't going to help. He was looking down the field for more yards, personally I like that, still can't fumble though.[/quote]

This goes to him being ordinary, vs a superstar. The ordinary middle pack qb throws it to one of those 3 guys and lets them take a shot. The superstar runs. You want to be the superstar don't fumble the ball as you start to run untouched. You want to be ordinary throw to the guy you think has the best chance to make a play. You want to be better then KC, throw a deep pass to a guy past the chains where only he can make a play on it.

You want to be out of the NFL fumble the ball at the 9 yd line then lay on the ground for 5 minutes while your body aches. I'm not saying he wasn't injured or was faking, or that I even have a clue about how bad he was feeling and in what way, but I am saying you want to be the best then barring broken bones/ACL/MCL type injuries you get up, you shake off the play, get off the field and get checked.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1117166]This goes to him being ordinary, vs a superstar. The ordinary middle pack qb throws it to one of those 3 guys and lets them take a shot. The superstar runs. You want to be the superstar don't fumble the ball as you start to run untouched. You want to be ordinary throw to the guy you think has the best chance to make a play. You want to be better then KC, throw a deep pass to a guy past the chains where only he can make a play on it.

You want to be out of the NFL fumble the ball at the 9 yd line then lay on the ground for 5 minutes while your body aches. I'm not saying he wasn't injured or was faking, or that I even have a clue about how bad he was feeling and in what way, but I am saying you want to be the best then barring broken bones/ACL/MCL type injuries you get up, you shake off the play, get off the field and get checked.[/quote]


Yeah, he wasn't going to get the 1st down running either. I like looking down the field first for a big play, then taking the shorter route, running wasn't necessarily a good option. But you need to have some time in protection to actually take a shot down field. Didn't get much of that last night.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=Mattyk;1117132]Was Cousins or McCoy playing against #1's?[/quote]

I dont know if either one of them were but since you posted this and Ive been listening to the radio,I've heard people say it was the same people on defense and offense when Colt took over.
I'm sure VY2 wont play next week so we wont be able to evaluate him,but I would bet the line doesnt have the same problems next week.

Just heard on the radio Griff concuss not that bad,maybe he'll play next week,hope so,he needs the reps

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

[quote=Mattyk;1117142]Who is satisfied?

Personally I just don't think he can be properly evaluated when the OL was such a major problem.

Even on quick drops he was getting hit.[/quote]

How can you say that when he fumbled twice when there was no reason to? Sorry but when he's fumbled probably over 30 times in his career you have to evaluate two fumbles in one quarter of play.

Even when BS got backed into him he has to be able to see/feel that and either slide or just take the sack. But DO NOT turn around and run backwards. He's still doing that in year 4. Inexcusable.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

Coming in the middle here ... but, was at the game. Came away feeling like neither Jay nor RGIII is close to what I had hoped they would be.

The more I thought about that, the deeper and more depressed I got.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Lions
 

Another issue that I had with the team last night is the lack of adjustment once they saw that the first-team offensive line was getting pounded. Where were the screen passes, possible read-option, and quick/short slants?

This team needs to stop depending solely on QB play; and learn to adjust when the o-line is not being effective. Focus more on the run, and make the passing game complimentary to the run. This should be happening, regardless of who's back there at QB.