Zone blocking
 

For those of you who think that Gibbs is not making any changes on the offensive side of the ball, read this from the Washington Post article today. It looks like we'll be seeing more zone blocking/stretch plays to better suit Portis. And Gibbs is finally giving the shotgun formation a chance.

{On offense, the team continues to work on the shotgun, a formation Gibbs shunned in the past, and is implementing more stretch plays with zone blocking, better suited to Portis and akin to how he played in Denver after the Redskins tried to be a power running team at the start of last season.

"We were set on being a smash-mouth team," Portis said. "That's what we wanted to go out and do. Unfortunately, that didn't win us a lot of games, so we changed a few things up."}

What do you guys think?

Re: Zone blocking
 

Good news, Redskins P. Now if we can only talk Gibbs into running a few slant routes he'll almost be in the 00's!

Re: Zone blocking
 

lol hahahaha

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Good news, Redskins P. Now if we can only talk Gibbs into running a few slant routes he'll almost be in the 00's![/QUOTE]

Or we can have him use Chad Morton to block Mike Strahan and then he can go coach some college boys down in South Carolina

It's amazing the lack of respect you show to Gibbs. But of course, he hasn't earned it in your mind, right?

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Good news, Redskins P. Now if we can only talk Gibbs into running a few slant routes he'll almost be in the 00's![/QUOTE]


I apologize to all mods in advance.


Daseal, why are you such a cock? Everytime someone posts something postitive about the team, you go out of your way to spoil it. Cheer up man. Get laid. Do something.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Or we can have him use Chad Morton to block Mike Strahan and then he can go coach some college boys down in South Carolina

It's amazing the lack of respect you show to Gibbs. But of course, he hasn't earned it in your mind, right?[/QUOTE]

LOL, ouch

Re: Zone blocking
 

We want changes in personnel not formations.
Our O-line is suffering.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=aprius]We want changes in personnel not formations.
Our O-line is suffering.[/QUOTE]


It might be a little too late to be making changes in personnel. I think the coaching staff is happy with they got.

What is our O-line suffering from? The flu? Athletes foot? What do you mean?

Re: Zone blocking
 

HAHA! The o-line is fine. Jansen, Rabach, Samuels are (borderline) Pro Bowlers.

Re: Zone blocking
 

The personnel is not going to change, and shouldn't. It's not like we're working with subpar talent, we've just gotten subpar results. Playing smashmouth with Portis is just misusing his talent. I think playing in that style will ultimately make Portis tougher, but I'd much rather see Portis running downhill than to see him barreling into the line trying to move the pile. Whatever it takes to win more games, I'm for that.

Re: Zone blocking
 

Right, and barreling into the pile is why we got White and Nemo.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=aprius]We want changes in personnel not formations.
Our O-line is suffering.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. Where have you been Aprius? OL is straight. But hey, if you're a fan of roster turnover so be it. :oink:

Re: Zone blocking
 

Sounds kind of like a joke... Of COURSE we want changes in formations. Those old two WR sets just don't cut it anymore.

Re: Zone blocking
 

I'm with TAFKAS, gotta show Gibbs some more respect. He started his first stint off 0-5 and won the Super Bowl the next year. He started this stint off rough, and now let's see where we go. No need to diss the coach without giving him enough of a chance. It takes time to purge the crappy attitude that has existed on this team for so long.

Re: Zone blocking
 

Redskins P: I'm being a cock because we zone blocked last year, it worked, and we abandoned it. Gibbs still has to prove he can coach in this era, can he do it, I think so. He's a great coach, it just may be time to bring in an offensive mind because his offense isn't doing anything. I'd also like to point to the fact that even with crazy schemes such as Chad Morton on Strahan as you suggested, still put up more PPG than Gibbs.

As far as personel, our WR position (and TE, but Royal is forming up nicely) is really the only position lacking. I feel our line is very solid with Samuels, Rabach, Jansen, and Thomas. Dockery is still young and has shown flashes of playing very good football. Here's a novel idea, let them play together for a while. Let's also remember that when there are 2-3 more guys in the box then we have linemen it doesn't matter if we have an all-star team blocking it'll still be hard to get 4/4.5 YPC.

This team needs to make leaps and bounds offensively to be a contender. I hope they can do it, but we need to give Ramsey the ball and trust him, which drafting Campbell didn't exactly send that message. I want to see us based around the run as much as anyone, but until our passing game is respected, which the Shotgun is a good start, our offense will continue to sputter.

Comparing Gibbs of the 80s to coaches of the modern era of football is apples and oranges. He did great things in a different NFL, and I think he can do the same. He's a good leader, guys follow him and work hard for him. The only problem I have with him is his playcalling, schemes, and clock management. He improved upon one of those over the season. If he can bring back an offense that dominated even half of what he had in his first era, we'll be a playoff team again, but I'm not going to turn an ignorant eye to the fact that I haven't seen anything to say we're going to make a big splash. Some people prefer to preach on the positive all day long, I like to look at what's wrong with the team and deal with it instead of ignore it. Like with all coaches, he has three years in my mind.

Yes, I liked Spurrier, but do you remember all the times I said that he needed to update his staff with NFL people and change his schemes? Get a better RB and give him the ball 10-15 more times a game? I guess comments like that get forgotten.

Oh, by the way, Charley Casserly of the Texans said he's LOVE to have Spurrier as a coach after he left (got fired) here.

Re: Zone blocking
 

Bowen sucks. I'm willing to bet he won't be starting this year! We can't live in the past. Gibbs' first year back was bad. Let's hope his second year is as good as those we reminisce about.

Re: Zone blocking
 

Schneed - I give him a chance, but does that mean I should ignore everything I don't agree with for three years and blow sunshine up his ass while we manage 150 yards of total offense in a game, which is Gibbs responsibility? If you blame it on talent, we had a decent upgrade to the line, but a pretty big degrade to our WR core. We'll see.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Schneed - I give him a chance, but does that mean I should ignore everything I don't agree with for three years and blow sunshine up his ass while we manage 150 yards of total offense in a game, which is Gibbs responsibility? If you blame it on talent, we had a decent upgrade to the line, but a pretty big degrade to our WR core. We'll see.[/QUOTE]

OK Daseal, fair enough. But I maintain that it takes a while to get a team's act together, it's not an overnight transformation (especially with O-line play). So if you're going to criticize Gibbs in his first season for his failures, then you have to be first in line to eat your words if he turns it around. I think that he earned the right to a little patience from the fans, given what he did for us in the '80's.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Redskins P: I'm being a cock because we zone blocked last year, it worked, and we abandoned it. Gibbs still has to prove he can coach in this era, can he do it, I think so. He's a great coach, it just may be time to bring in an offensive mind because his offense isn't doing anything. I'd also like to point to the fact that even with crazy schemes such as Chad Morton on Strahan as you suggested, still put up more PPG than Gibbs.

As far as personel, our WR position (and TE, but Royal is forming up nicely) is really the only position lacking. I feel our line is very solid with Samuels, Rabach, Jansen, and Thomas. Dockery is still young and has shown flashes of playing very good football. Here's a novel idea, let them play together for a while. Let's also remember that when there are 2-3 more guys in the box then we have linemen it doesn't matter if we have an all-star team blocking it'll still be hard to get 4/4.5 YPC.

This team needs to make leaps and bounds offensively to be a contender. I hope they can do it, but we need to give Ramsey the ball and trust him, which drafting Campbell didn't exactly send that message. I want to see us based around the run as much as anyone, but until our passing game is respected, which the Shotgun is a good start, our offense will continue to sputter.

Comparing Gibbs of the 80s to coaches of the modern era of football is apples and oranges. He did great things in a different NFL, and I think he can do the same. He's a good leader, guys follow him and work hard for him. The only problem I have with him is his playcalling, schemes, and clock management. He improved upon one of those over the season. If he can bring back an offense that dominated even half of what he had in his first era, we'll be a playoff team again, but I'm not going to turn an ignorant eye to the fact that I haven't seen anything to say we're going to make a big splash. Some people prefer to preach on the positive all day long, I like to look at what's wrong with the team and deal with it instead of ignore it. Like with all coaches, he has three years in my mind.

Yes, I liked Spurrier, but do you remember all the times I said that he needed to update his staff with NFL people and change his schemes? Get a better RB and give him the ball 10-15 more times a game? I guess comments like that get forgotten.

Oh, by the way, Charley Casserly of the Texans said he's LOVE to have Spurrier as a coach after he left (got fired) here.[/QUOTE]

The problem last year was the lack of a vertical passing game, simple as that. Why didn't PR get the ball downfield, Daseal? Was it because Gibbs and Co didn't send everybody deep last year, or was it because the WRs couldn't separate on any route that required them to run more than 10 yards downfield? In what way was the WR corps downgraded?

You're right, not having unrelenting optimism doesn't mean you're not a fan, but having unrelenting pessimism sure does make you look like an ass.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Redskins P: I'm being a cock because we zone blocked last year, it worked, and we abandoned it. Gibbs still has to prove he can coach in this era, can he do it, I think so. He's a great coach, it just may be time to bring in an offensive mind because his offense isn't doing anything. I'd also like to point to the fact that even with crazy schemes such as Chad Morton on Strahan as you suggested, still put up more PPG than Gibbs.

As far as personel, our WR position (and TE, but Royal is forming up nicely) is really the only position lacking. I feel our line is very solid with Samuels, Rabach, Jansen, and Thomas. Dockery is still young and has shown flashes of playing very good football. Here's a novel idea, let them play together for a while. Let's also remember that when there are 2-3 more guys in the box then we have linemen it doesn't matter if we have an all-star team blocking it'll still be hard to get 4/4.5 YPC.

This team needs to make leaps and bounds offensively to be a contender. I hope they can do it, but we need to give Ramsey the ball and trust him, which drafting Campbell didn't exactly send that message. I want to see us based around the run as much as anyone, but until our passing game is respected, which the Shotgun is a good start, our offense will continue to sputter.

Comparing Gibbs of the 80s to coaches of the modern era of football is apples and oranges. He did great things in a different NFL, and I think he can do the same. He's a good leader, guys follow him and work hard for him. The only problem I have with him is his playcalling, schemes, and clock management. He improved upon one of those over the season. If he can bring back an offense that dominated even half of what he had in his first era, we'll be a playoff team again, but I'm not going to turn an ignorant eye to the fact that I haven't seen anything to say we're going to make a big splash. Some people prefer to preach on the positive all day long, I like to look at what's wrong with the team and deal with it instead of ignore it. Like with all coaches, he has three years in my mind.

Yes, I liked Spurrier, but do you remember all the times I said that he needed to update his staff with NFL people and change his schemes? Get a better RB and give him the ball 10-15 more times a game? I guess comments like that get forgotten.

Oh, by the way, Charley Casserly of the Texans said he's LOVE to have Spurrier as a coach after he left (got fired) here.[/QUOTE]


I agree with 95 percent of what you are saying......except liking anything about Spurrier. His discipline and the way we played was disgusting, but I will agree we put up a lot more points......if I could go out on a limb and say that GEORGE EDWARDS was more of a problem Spurrier's final year than Spurrier himself. Edwards had some pretty good talent and we had the 25th ranked D that year.................anyway.........I agree with you on Gibbs offense!

Hey did anyone see on draft day when Jansen was being interviewed with that DORK Trent Green (who I would still like to have) and jansen stated that we were running a "1992 offense." That tells you something doesn't it??

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Daseal] I'd also like to point to the fact that even with crazy schemes such as Chad Morton on Strahan as you suggested, still put up more PPG than Gibbs.[/QUOTE]


I never said that.

See why can't you say these things you feel and not make it seem like you're being a dick about it? You tend to say things at times that make it seem like you're just out to diss Gibbs or anyone who believes in Gibbs. We all respect eachothers opinions, but theres a way of expressing it.

Re: Zone blocking
 

selecting campbell was the best thing for ramsey deseal. dont you think a NFL organization would know more than you? lol. dont you think they looked at the rookie qb's next year and said we think campbell would be a better option for them? dont you think by selecting campbell would spark a fire in ramsey's ass? dont you think that if ramsey pouts about the pick then gibbs gets the personality of his starter and then will know ramsey isnt our guy? either way we win.

and how do you know that our wr corps is degressed? has the season started yet? and how do you know our o line is upgraded? has the season started yet? you dont know deseal the paper champ. dont say anything unless you have proof or state them as opinions. thanks

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]I apologize to all mods in advance.


Daseal, why are you such a cock? Everytime someone posts something postitive about the team, you go out of your way to spoil it. Cheer up man. Get laid. Do something.[/QUOTE]

I have to admit, that's going to keep me laughing for the rest of the week.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Or we can have him use Chad Morton to block Mike Strahan and then he can go coach some college boys down in South Carolina

It's amazing the lack of respect you show to Gibbs. But of course, he hasn't earned it in your mind, right?[/QUOTE]


In all do respect, Gibbs hasen't earned it in his own mind, he has insisted time and again that what's in the past is in the past, this is a fresh start and he has to earn that respect all over again, he will be judged by what he does now not from what he has done in the past.

I have a question for everyone, forget what Gibbs did in the past and treat him like a brand new coach who has accomplished nothing, then let's hear the evaluation of him pertaining to last season alone and this past draft, I think a lot of the posts will be much different when you remove Gibbs's mystique and evaluate him objectivly.

This question may be better suited for it's own thread.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Oh, by the way, Charley Casserly of the Texans said he's LOVE to have Spurrier as a coach after he left (got fired) here.[/QUOTE]


:lol: [size=4]LOL!!! [/size][size=2]The Texans? Ahh that's good stuff. What a compliment! [/size]
[size=2][/size]
[size=2]And yet somehow he's back coaching college again? Go figure.[/size]

Re: Zone blocking
 

[quote]Why didn't PR get the ball downfield, Daseal?[/quote]
Was it quite possible that we didn't give him a chance to make big plays downfield? Sure, we threw the ball to Coles a lot, but I'm curious how many of those balls he caught behind the line of scrimmage. We were a running team, but when we did pass we threw screens and hooks, and curls. Our offense was owned by opposing defenses, ask Wilbon. You said that the reason we didn't throw was to protect Ramsey, and we've argued over this countless times. Why change your tune now and say that it's on Ramsey for not having the chance to throw it.

Schneed - I understand it's not an overnight thing and didn't expect a super bowl overnight. The problem is I'm not sure it's Oline chemistry holding us down rather than schemes and playcalling, which can be changed throughout a season. He had a whole offseason to work on it, and hopefully he'll come out blazing like we've been promised so many times before. It seems like we're so afraid of a turnover that we don't want to take any chances, but when you have a defense like ours you can take some chances to put up points.

Redskins P: Meant that comment for TAFKAS, not for you. I apologize for not seperating it.

I don't feel I've once attacked someone for having faith in Gibbs, they can have all the faith they want. As I've said multiple times, I think he will be successfull, but it may be at the hands of an offensive coordinator. This year will be a good gague of how much he's willing to adapt his gameplan.

What do you mean how did our WRs digress? We had Coles and Gardner, now we have a bunch of #3s. Love or hate him, Gardner was a very decent #2, and even with his bum toe Coles was a good enough #1 (though not what he used to be.) Please, tell me how they upgraded. Santana Moss had one good year, he's small, fragile, fast, and was getting ready to be NY's 3rd WR.

Not all QBs react well to having to look over your shoulder, and that doesn't mean they're a bad player. Ramsey has spent his whole career finally earning the starting job only to have it ripped away. How about we give the kid a chance to prove himself without having to worry about the next guy in line. I think Campbell will be a good player, but that trade was extremely costly.

I have my views on our offense, and everyone else has their own unique view. That's how it works. The problem is, no matter how you look at it, we were 6-10 and you can't blame our defense for that.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=jrocx69]selecting campbell was the best thing for ramsey deseal. dont you think a NFL organization would know more than you? lol. dont you think they looked at the rookie qb's next year and said we think campbell would be a better option for them? dont you think by selecting campbell would spark a fire in ramsey's ass? dont you think that if ramsey pouts about the pick then gibbs gets the personality of his starter and then will know ramsey isnt our guy? either way we win.

and how do you know that our wr corps is degressed? has the season started yet? and how do you know our o line is upgraded? has the season started yet? you dont know deseal the paper champ. dont say anything unless you have proof or state them as opinions. thanks[/QUOTE]


Tough to light a fire under a guy's ass when you draft a 3 year project.

Perhaps Ramsey pouted because he wanted WR and line help, which is what we all know we needed.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[quote]I have a question for everyone, forget what Gibbs did in the past and treat him like a brand new coach who has accomplished nothing, then let's hear the evaluation of him pertaining to last season alone and this past draft, I think a lot of the posts will be much different when you remove Gibbs's mystique and evaluate him objectivly.[/quote]

Amen, Offiss. I don't feel we should judge him on what happened in the 80s today. The two era should be seperate. Did he do amazing things in the 80s that changed the game? Yes he did! Is it the same NFL. No it's not.

Hey Schneed - last time I checked the Texans are doing an amazing job with personel and they had more wins than us. Not bad for an expansion team.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=offiss]In all do respect, Gibbs hasen't earned it in his own mind, he has insisted time and again that what's in the past is in the past, this is a fresh start and he has to earn that respect all over again, he will be judged by what he does now not from what he has done in the past.

I have a question for everyone, forget what Gibbs did in the past and treat him like a brand new coach who has accomplished nothing, then let's hear the evaluation of him pertaining to last season alone and this past draft, I think a lot of the posts will be much different when you remove Gibbs's mystique and evaluate him objectivly.

This question may be better suited for it's own thread.[/QUOTE]

First of all, of course Gibbs is going to say that. Anybody who knows about coach Gibbs knows he's going to say that. He's about the most humble guy you've ever seen. What's he going to say: "I deserve extra consideration and patience because I won 3 rings for this franchise!"? Come on, that's what us fans are here for. To defend and support the coach who was at the helm for the only thing resembling a dynasty this team has ever known.

Sorry, but he's not a rookie coach. You can't strip away his prior accomplishments and judge him. That'd be like Brian Billick going to the 49ers this year, finishing 6-10, and then judging him as a terrible coach based solely on one year's performance. Just doesn't make sense to me. With Gibbs comes a stellar record and uncontroverted success. Even non-Redskins fans I've talked to don't judge Joe Gibbs without first seeing the three rings on his fingers. I swear he gets more respect around the rest of the NFL than he does from certain people in this forum.

Re: Zone blocking
 

It's the old chicken or the egg debate...

Some people think we didn't go downfield last year simply because Gibbs choose not to. Personally I find that a little hard to believe and I think there are a multitude of reasons behind the scenes that aren't always very obvious.

In Gibbs first go round, he was always a deep strike guy. Rypien used to throw bombs all over the place. So why would he all of a sudden pull in the reins and shorten the field? Could it have been due to some other circumstances like a shaky OL and Gibbs' adjustment period to today's attacking-style NFL defenses?

How about a new system and the adjustment period that goes along with that, especially for the QBs. How about our WRs? Gardner isn't a serious deep threat, and Coles toe has obviously effected his game. We can argue all we want whether the WRs have been upgraded, but if you're talking about pure speed, then yes we did upgrade with Moss and Patten.

I won't deny Gibbs himself was also to blame, but at the same time there isn't another coach I trust more to fix this offense. Gibbs will get it done, if he doesn't it won't be for a lack of effort... and that's a lot more than we can say about you know who.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Hey Schneed - last time I checked the Texans are doing an amazing job with personel and they had more wins than us. Not bad for an expansion team.[/QUOTE]

Yah, 1 more.....last year.
And that comment was presumably after the Texans 2003 5-11 season, which coincidentally matched the Skins record under the fabulous Steve Spurrier. I guess they just wanted to find a different way of going 5-11.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I won't deny Gibbs himself was also to blame, but at the same time there isn't another coach I trust more to fix this offense. Gibbs will get it done, if he doesn't it won't be for a lack of effort... and that's a lot more than we can say about you know who.[/QUOTE]

Oh come on now........swinging those golf clubs took a lot of effort. Just ask his caddie Danny Wuerffle....those things can be heavy.

Re: Zone blocking
 

That's like if Lombardi came back to coach the Packers, and everyone was supposed to just forget about his past accomplishments and judge him for today alone.

Not gonna happen.

Re: Zone blocking
 

Good god, what's going on in this thread? It really must be the middle of may...

Gibbs switches to more zone blocking and the shot gun. What in the world is the problem??? My guess is that both sides of the debate are correct.

1. The offense was weak last year. Gibbs is responsible for that (he'd absolutely be the first to admit that, and he has repeatedly). So it's completely reasonable to quetsion his coaching--until it works on the field, it doesn't mean a thing. And who cares--in the context of winning games in 2005--what went on in the 80's?

2. BUT--here's the main reason to respect Gibbs: he's wise enough to make the changes, and he works hard all the time to make the team better. We learned that he's making what we all feel are the correct changes--zone blocking, screens, down-field passing, etc--why is this an opportuinity to knock him? He's doing what we want, change-wise. My guess is that he's considered slants, anything that works. That's why he's a good coach.

DId Spurrier change his offense in his second year? No. That's why he's back in college. He can bitch all he wants about not getting to pick his QB (didn't he pick Mathews and Wurfell?), but the system didn't work, and he didn't adapt. Gibbs is at least trying to make the changes, and bringing in people who can help.

Re: Zone blocking
 

I have no problem with the 4 great O-Linemen we have but after them we have no depth. Hopefully they dont take a single play off this year or we are USC without a paddle.

Re: Zone blocking
 

aprius--you seem to have info on the second year guys that we lack, or you for some reason are very doubtful of their progress. I guess that the one thing I feel pretty good about is knowing that they've been with Bugel from day one of their pro careers--and didn't one of them start a game last year and do well, before hurting his knee? What is the source of your pessimism about these guys? Their youth? Something else? Just curious.

ANother point is that Friedman is probably a better guard than center, so he gives more depth there. BUt whatever. I think the pieces are there, and the rest is chemistry and coaching. And I've yet to be convinced that Bugel and Gibbs can't figure out how to coach an O-line in 2005. But we'll see!

Re: Zone blocking
 

I know alot of guys go through a soph slump and if they all do it this year we are in trouble. And, yes, one did start before hurting his knee but that brings up question marks right there....Is he going to be an oft injured player? I worry about their inexperience not their youth. ST is as young but he proved that he can play. None of these guys has.

Friedman was a bad backup that became a starter by having no other options. I have faith in Bugel and Gibbs....not so much in our personnel.

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=saden1]Bowen sucks. I'm willing to bet he won't be starting this year! We can't live in the past. Gibbs' first year back was bad. Let's hope his second year is as good as those we reminisce about.[/QUOTE]

Bowens is my opinion plays to aggressive against the p/a & w/o blazing speed gets burned by the WR on the posts or deep outs. Saw it happen to many times in the past. We need Taylor to get his ass into camp & start playing some damn fine ball!

Re: Zone blocking
 

[quote=daseal]I like to look at what's wrong with the team and deal with it[/quote]
how? firing the staff? making personnel trades? we can't do anything but watch and flap our gums ;)

[quote=JWSleep]DId Spurrier change his offense in his second year? No. That's why he's back in college.[/quote]

honestly, going from 9 to 25 on defense (or whatever it was) was a bigger problem than his average offense...

be easy on daseal, he's training to be the next curmudgeon and there are some growing pains involved... just give him a couple years to develop and he should be putting up some decent numbers (wha??) ;)

Re: Zone blocking
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Hey Schneed - last time I checked the Texans are doing an amazing job with personel and they had more wins than us. Not bad for an expansion team.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't the one with the Texans comment. I have a lot of respect for Casserly.