Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

Just a few things to get the thread started. You can take it from there.

[B]Plus[/B]

[U]Offense[/U]

Moved the ball and scored TD's.
Better pass protection in this game.

[U]Defense[/U]

Outstanding goal line defense to end 1st half.
Stopped the run.

[U]Special Teams[/U]

Had a nice kickoff return.
Improved kick-offs - into the end zone.

[B]Minus[/B]

[U]Offense[/U]

Did not run well vs. Raven's first team D.
Early INT deep in our territory (mental error by QB).

[U]Defense[/U]

Tackling by the secondary was atrocious.
Not much pass rush pressure early in the game.

[U]Special Teams[/U]

Gave up a very long KR to Ravens at the end of the first half.
Our PR game was stagnant.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

Minus
Looked like shit when it was 1st team vs 1st team

Whenever we are undefeated in the pre season the regular season ends being awful

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

+
Cousins didn't go into the tank after throwing the early INT
Jeffcoat continues to have a strong summer
Matt Jones

-
The running game especially with Morris in there is still struggling

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2015/08/30/a-closer-look-at-kirk-cousinss-impressive-performance-in-redskins-win-over-ravens/?postshare=551440941450845"]A closer look at Kirk Cousins’s impressive performance in Redskins’ win over Ravens[/URL]

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[B][U]Pluses[/U][/B]

Rookies -Jones, Crowder, Smith, Jarrett and many undrafted FA's (Williams, Ross, Bell, Jeffcoat)

OL
Grant
Hatcher and Baker

Carrier fumble recovery

Cousins and McCoy

[B][U]Negatives[/U][/B]

Amerson

Special Teams coverage

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

Hosted a cookout and missed the game...from what I read looks like it was the best we have looked all preseason. That's awesome

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=Chico23231;1118244]Hosted a cookout and missed the game...[B]from what I read looks like it was the best we have looked all preseason.[/B] That's awesome[/quote]

Hands down, major improvement. I think the best part was not having to watch the RG3 train wreck while thinking somehow he would be the starter in week 1.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

+no injuries, kirk was solid

-tackling was terrible, gave up some big plays (smith TD, 100 yard KR, int to suggs).

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

Didn't see the game so I pieced the thing together through Box score, highlight vids, blogs and celestial intervention
[B]PLUS[/B]
Whats not to like, except the KC int? Actually, that was beneficial as well. KC could have gone DarkSide..........but didn't.
Good Oline play....no sacks
Solid pounding run game run game...against a stingy Raven D
Crisp pace to the O
D stifled the Raven running game
D Got a few takeaways
Return game looked good
penalties a little high...but
Kirk can run the O and hopefully he can mature totally out of the int thing.....
[B]MINUS[/B]
Very regretfully, I have no confidence that Robert could have done the same at this time.........

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

A lot of people have hit the major points, here are mine:

Pros:
-Energy. Every play, even in the 4th quarter, we had guys (starters) out there congratulating people.
-QB Play. KC played well. McCoy played well. A few mistakes, but generally good plays. Most importantly, and something that has been lacking with RG3, movement in the pocket. These guys aren't getting any more or less pressure than RG3, what they're doing is making an effort to avoid it.
-Matt Jones. I hate to say it, but he's the reason I'm not buying an AlfMo jersey. Matt Jones very well may be the best back on our team and very well could be a starter or share the load 50/50 by midway through the season.
- Depth. We have some impressive depth on this team. Some of the guys we cut today will end up on the 53 man of another squad.
- Jackson Jeffcoat. He made some plays in the regular season last year and made some plays in the preseason.
- DHall. He ran with receivers, made a few big plays. I was worried about him after last week, feeling better now!
- Preston Smith. Looking good. Doesn't seem fast, but great hands/long arms and does a good job shedding blocks.

Cons:
-Tackling. This is still an issue for this team. Sometimes it's okay to push people back and let friends pick it up, sometimes you need to tackle.
-1st team. We lost the game 1st team vs 1st team. Ravens took their starters out (a lot of them) before the half.
-Pierre Garcon. Where is this guy? He should be having an impact on the game, he's not. Stop pimping various pizza chains and start playing football.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

They have got to find a competent TE in base personnel. I think the lack of success in the 1st unit base personnel runs is because Compton at TE invites teams to sell out run commit or at the very least commit his defender to 100% run. Gotta find a better answer.....or don't run from base personnel/formations?

Good to see the screens game, which was missing in the 1st 2 preseason games. We saw 2 screens in the 1st 2 series 1 WR screen(intercepted) and 1 RB screen against 2nd and long. Even saw some hurry up which is good.

If Kirk was playing as short a stint as Griffin vs the Lions he would have been 3-5 with 1 INT and 1 Fumbles snap.

Kirk took a helacious hit against a blitz on a pass that was broken up which luckily wasn't picked off and almost got Grant sent to the hospital. If it was Griffin throwing that pass he would have crucified, that would have been used in the referendum rhetoric.

Kirk and 1st unit offense didn't cross the 50 yard line til 6 minutes left in the 2nd qtr.
And the 2 minute drill TD drive was against the Ravens 2nd unit defense.

But it was good to see the offense get going eventually.
I like seeing Keenan suplex that WR.
Nice seeing 1st unit defense get a goalline stop even though it was against their 2nd O.

o I saw Reed make an effective block in the 1st qtr....maybe there's hope?

o Grant, Crowder and Jones looked good again

o Colt is the master of the bootleg, even under duress

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

+Preston Smith (pressure lead to pick)
+++Jackson Jeffcoat (interception, pressure-strip sack)
+ Kysheon Jarrett ( interception)

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=30gut;1118279]
If Kirk was playing as short a stint as Griffin vs the Lions he would have been 3-5 with 1 INT and 1 Fumbles snap.

Kirk took a helacious hit against a blitz on a pass that was broken up which luckily wasn't picked off and almost got Grant sent to the hospital. If it was Griffin throwing that pass he would have crucified, that would have been used in the referendum rhetoric.
[/quote]

do you honestly think rgiii could have gotten 27 passes off without getting hurt again? that's like 7 sacks minimum for him.

If he had gotten a TD or two if would have really quieted down the hate, but he hasn't. instead he's told us he's the best qb in the league, he's not sure if he had a concussion, and "he just works here."

dude does not know how to get out of his own way. I'm tired of the constant drama over a guy that hasn't played well in over two years. I'm glad he's mastered branding, but he should have been spending his time working on football.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

Watched the replay today...

Preston smith...I read in camp, practice he struggles but damn he shows up the game.
Ryan grant, crowder and Ross. Our wideout depth is great...I would try to move Roberts. Green Bay, Carolina, etc.
Chris baker and jeffcoat looking good.
To me the bigger controversy should be the starting rb position. Matt jones is better than Alfmo. I saw it camp and I've seen it in preseason game.

Kirk was aight...nothing special but better than rg3.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=30gut;1118279]They have got to find a competent TE in base personnel. I think the lack of success in the 1st unit base personnel runs is because Compton at TE invites teams to sell out run commit or at the very least commit his defender to 100% run. Gotta find a better answer.....or don't run from base personnel/formations?

Good to see the screens game, which was missing in the 1st 2 preseason games. We saw 2 screens in the 1st 2 series 1 WR screen(intercepted) and 1 RB screen against 2nd and long. Even saw some hurry up which is good.

If Kirk was playing as short a stint as Griffin vs the Lions he would have been 3-5 with 1 INT and 1 Fumbles snap.

Kirk took a helacious hit against a blitz on a pass that was broken up which luckily wasn't picked off and almost got Grant sent to the hospital. If it was Griffin throwing that pass he would have crucified, that would have been used in the referendum rhetoric.

Kirk and 1st unit offense didn't cross the 50 yard line til 6 minutes left in the 2nd qtr.
And the 2 minute drill TD drive was against the Ravens 2nd unit defense.

But it was good to see the offense get going eventually.
I like seeing Keenan suplex that WR.
Nice seeing 1st unit defense get a goalline stop even though it was against their 2nd O.

o I saw Reed make an effective block in the 1st qtr....maybe there's hope?

o Grant, Crowder and Jones looked good again

o Colt is the master of the bootleg, even under duress[/quote]

Dude give it up. For whatever reason, the football people at Redskin Park want to move on from Griffin. They see him up close everyday. You don't. For all of Gruden's faults, he's played the position, as has Matt Cavanaugh. Don't you think they know a capable qb when they see one??? I'm going to trust that they know what they're doing.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=Chico23231;1118296]Watched the replay today...

Preston smith...I read in camp, practice he struggles but damn he shows up the game.
Ryan grant, crowder and Ross. Our wideout depth is great...I would try to move Roberts. Green Bay, Carolina, etc.
Chris baker and jeffcoat looking good.
To me the bigger controversy should be the starting rb position. Matt jones is better than Alfmo. I saw it camp and I've seen it in preseason game.

Kirk was aight...nothing special but better than rg3.[/quote]

Let's see Jones in the regular season before we crown him. Morris has three years of proven production here. I didn't like the Jones pick at first, but he's winning me over. Just want to see it over a period of time in the regular season.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1118326]Dude give it up. For whatever reason, the football people at Redskin Park want to move on from Griffin. They see him up close everyday. You don't. For all of Gruden's faults, he's played the position, as has Matt Cavanaugh. Don't you think they know a capable qb when they see one??? I'm going to trust that they know what they're doing.[/quote]
In what way is this a response to my post?

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=That Guy;1118292]do you honestly think rgiii could have gotten 27 passes off without getting hurt again? that's like 7 sacks minimum for him.[/quote]You do love your rhetorical questions and hyperbole.
And for the 1000th time I don't care about the off the field stuff, so it has no bearing on me. I am remain unaffected by the drama.

And obtw Willie Smith prolly won't ever start at LT for us ever again. Even though the way most fans talked about the Lions game, there isn't much of a drop off lol.

Have any opinion about the rest of my comments about the preseason game or just QB/Cousins/Griffin based stuff?

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=mredskins;1118235]Minus
Looked like shit when it was 1st team vs 1st team

Whenever we are undefeated in the pre season the regular season ends being awful[/quote]

It was 13-7 when the Ravens 1s left the game. Hardly an ass kicking and nowhere near as brutal as the Lions game.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

Plusses:

1. TW getting extended. That has to be a huge relief for him and the team. As he said, "you never know when a guy might roll your legs from behind". Im sure it has a positive effect on other players seeing a drafted Skin who has been here for years being rewarded.

2. WR corp looks deep. Desean and pierre plus roberts/grant/crowder as slot with ross as the 6 is a very nice group imo.

3. pressure on QB. i thought it was okay, Joe did a good job of avoiding a few sacks.

4. cousins can run the playbook.

5. we beat the ravens in M&T. harbaugh and boschetti do not like snyder and the skins. i think harbaugh wanted this for may reasons, and he didnt get it.

Minuses:

1. run game was shut down. in the preseason i dont mind running to the right on 4th and 2 to test the young right side .. which seemed to fail.

i am not worried though. callahan should improve the unit over time and we have a good starting 5 imo. depth at tackle scars the hell out of me.

2. run D. i thought up the middle we were stout, but anything outside the A gap found some room. that may be a familiar theme all season.

3. Smith 67 yard TD. horrible angle and over pursuit by amerson then goldson.

4. our LBs havent been tested yet with covering a TE or back and I think that will be our achilles heal all season. has riley played?

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

Another minus...John Harbaugh is a effing dickhead. The yelling at Gruden thing was like "wtf, its preseason. chill" and then the reporter thing at halftime was just unacceptable. What a dick for zero reasons.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=44Deezel;1118382]It was 13-7 when the Ravens 1s left the game. Hardly an ass kicking and nowhere near as brutal as the Lions game.[/quote]

Didn't the Ravens 1st team defense play on that 2 minute drive?

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=30gut;1118373]You do love your rhetorical questions and hyperbole.
And for the 1000th time I don't care about the off the field stuff, so it has no bearing on me. I am remain unaffected by the drama.

And obtw Willie Smith prolly won't ever start at LT for us ever again. Even though the way most fans talked about the Lions game, there isn't much of a drop off lol.

Have any opinion about the rest of my comments about the preseason game or just QB/Cousins/Griffin based stuff?[/quote]

it's not really rhetorical or hyperbole, his career average is 1 sack every 7 attempts, his preseason average this year was 1 sack per 4 attempts. compare that to the other QBs behind the same offensive line, it's not even close.

I'm glad the off field stuff doesn't affect you, but i guarantee the guys actually playing the game are annoyed by it, at least a little bit.

you can keep making excuses for him all you want, but he's sucked for over two years. it's time to be accountable.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[url]https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/01/grades-for-redskins-ravens/[/url]

Redskins:

–QB Colt McCoy led all Redskins with a +3.5 overall grade, playing 36 snaps. He didn’t attempt any throws over 20 yards, but connected on all four attempts traveling between 10-19 yards. He was nearly perfect when passing while not under pressure, grading at +2.6 and throwing two TDs.

–Linebackers Perry Riley and Preston Smith both had multiple defensive stops and QB hurries. Riley graded better in run defense at +2.3, while Smith finished with a +1.9 pass-rush grade. Combined they had five of the six QB hurries for the Redskins on the night.

–Rookie guard Arie Kouandjio out of Alabama bounced back from two disastrous games and finished at a +1.3 overall grade. In his first two games, he was a cumulative -4.3. His snaps have decreased each game, however — a strong sign he’ll be relegated to the backup role.

Top 5 graded players:

1. LB Perry Riley (+3.6)

2. QB Colt McCoy (+3.5)

3. OL Ty Nsekhe (+3.1)

4. WR Ryan Grant (+2.0)

5. LB Jackson Jeffcoat (+1.9)

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

....

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=30gut;1118746][url]https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/01/grades-for-redskins-ravens/[/url]

Redskins:

–QB Colt McCoy led all Redskins with a +3.5 overall grade, playing 36 snaps. He didn’t attempt any throws over 20 yards, but connected on all four attempts traveling between 10-19 yards. He was nearly perfect when passing while not under pressure, grading at +2.6 and throwing two TDs.

–Linebackers Perry Riley and Preston Smith both had multiple defensive stops and QB hurries. Riley graded better in run defense at +2.3, while Smith finished with a +1.9 pass-rush grade. Combined they had five of the six QB hurries for the Redskins on the night.

–Rookie guard Arie Kouandjio out of Alabama bounced back from two disastrous games and finished at a +1.3 overall grade. In his first two games, he was a cumulative -4.3. His snaps have decreased each game, however — a strong sign he’ll be relegated to the backup role.

Top 5 graded players:

1. LB Perry Riley (+3.6)

2. QB Colt McCoy (+3.5)

3. OL Ty Nsekhe (+3.1)

4. WR Ryan Grant (+2.0)

5. LB Jackson Jeffcoat (+1.9)[/quote]

What did you think of Cooley's film breakdown on Kirk?

It's just a preseason game and that tempers expectations of course. That being said, I am really encouraged how many blitzes the Ravens brought and how our line held up in front of Kirk and how he delivered the ball under pressure.

Just needs to carry over to the regular season.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=30gut;1118798]....[/quote]

And what did you think of not drafting a QB this year?

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

This is the bad part:

Defensive film breakdown

[url=http://www.espn980.com/audio-vault/]Audio Vault | ESPN 980[/url]

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

Wasn't really a fan of the Smith pick at first, but he's looked good so far in preseason.

I wish PFF's report was more comprehensive, not a lot of info there.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1118811]What did you think of Cooley's film breakdown on Kirk? [/quote]I didn't hear/watch Cooley's breakdown of Cousins pre-season snaps vs the Ravens.

Here are my thoughts from that preseason game:

They have got to find a competent TE in base personnel. I think the lack of success in the 1st unit base personnel runs is because Compton at TE invites teams to sell out run commit or at the very least commit his defender to 100% run. Gotta find a better answer.....or don't run from base personnel/formations?

Good to see the screens game, which was missing in the 1st 2 preseason games. We saw 2 screens in the 1st 2 series 1 WR screen(intercepted) and 1 RB screen against 2nd and long. Even saw some hurry up which is good.

If Kirk was playing as short a stint as Griffin vs the Lions he would have been 3-5 with 1 INT and 1 Fumbles snap.

Kirk took a helacious hit against a blitz on a pass that was broken up which luckily wasn't picked off and almost got Grant sent to the hospital. If it was Griffin throwing that pass he would have crucified, that would have been used in the referendum rhetoric.

Kirk and 1st unit offense didn't cross the 50 yard line til 6 minutes left in the 2nd qtr.
And the 2 minute drill TD drive was against the Ravens 2nd unit defense.

But it was good to see the offense get going eventually.
I like seeing Keenan suplex that WR.
Nice seeing 1st unit defense get a goalline stop even though it was against their 2nd O.

o I saw Reed make an effective block in the 1st qtr....maybe there's hope?

o Grant, Crowder and Jones looked good again

o Colt is the master of the bootleg, even under duress


[quote][B][I][U]It's just a preseason game[/U][/I][/B] and that tempers expectations of course. That being said, I am really encouraged how many blitzes the Ravens brought and how our line held up in front of Kirk and how he delivered the ball under pressure.[/quote]Not to take away from the rest of your statement but I couldn't help but laugh at the 'its just a preseason' game statement based on what just happened.

I want to be/feel more encouraged but his snaps vs the Ravens didn't do it for me. I have seen Cousins play much better then that during actual games. But I guess unlike most of the fanbase/some members of the coaching staff preseason performance/results aren't the end all be all. I expect Cousins to play better then he did during this preseason game.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=That Guy;1118563]it's not really rhetorical or hyperbole, his career average is 1 sack every 7 attempts.[/quote]I don't understand why you feel the need to respond to my posts when the majority of your post doesn't address anything that I've said? Why not just post your thoughts into the thread directly without the guise of being a response?

Anyhow your question wasn't about sacks it was about injury. Remember.[quote=That Guy;1118292]do you honestly think rgiii could have gotten 27 passes off without getting hurt again?[/quote]So once again, you are moving the goal posts. You say one thing then argue about something else.

[quote]his preseason average this year was 1 sack per 4 attempts. compare that to the other QBs behind the same offensive line, it's not even close[/quote]First of all, we're talking about preseason. Preseason. If you want to use preseason averages as barometer for regular season play be my guest. But don't expect me to argue over them as if it has any real bearing.

And to be clear over the course of the preseason the other QBs didn't play behind the same OL nor in the same circumstances. Saying they played behind the same offensive line isn't even close to the truth. That's just a clear, out right fabrication.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=30gut;1118746][url]https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/09/01/grades-for-redskins-ravens/[/url]



Top 5 graded players:

1. LB Perry Riley (+3.6)

[/quote]

Doh! lol .. I said riley seemed invisible so far this preseason. I owe you an apology Mr. Riley.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=30gut;1118889]I don't understand why you feel the need to respond to my posts when the majority of your post doesn't address anything that I've said? Why not just post your thoughts into the thread directly without the guise of being a response?

Anyhow your question wasn't about sacks it was about injury. Remember.So once again, you are moving the goal posts. You say one thing then argue about something else.

First of all, we're talking about preseason. Preseason. If you want to use preseason averages as barometer for regular season play be my guest. But don't expect me to argue over them as if it has any real bearing.

And to be clear over the course of the preseason the other QBs didn't play behind the same OL nor in the same circumstances. Saying they played behind the same offensive line isn't even close to the truth. That's just a clear, out right fabrication.[/quote]


so i've got to get permission from you to respond to your posts now? and how am i moving the goal posts? sacks = big hits = potential injuries. that doesn't seem that hard to follow. you really seem to like to deflect.

how many times was robert hit/sacked last year vs the other two qbs? how many times this preseason? how often did our other qb's get hurt and miss games the last 3-4 years? we gave up 0 sacks vs baltimore. I don't think it's hard to follow, griffin gets hit too much, and you can see that the OL isn't as big a factor as your claiming when you look over the course of the last two years. robert gets hit a lot and others don't in the same situations, meaning that he's doing something that causes that (it's beyond the margin of error). This isn't rocket science, and i don't see why you have such a hard time with having him be accountable for his shortcomings.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1118812]And what did you think of not drafting a QB this year?[/quote]Loved it, loved watching our 1b QB play the entire 4th preseason game. No risk there.

Also loved not drafting a TE either.

;)

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=That Guy;1118966]so i've got to get permission from you to respond to your posts now? [/quote]You can do whatever you like, never said you couldn't. I did ask you why you bothered responding to my posts when you don't intend to respond to anything in the actual post. You know? You literally responded to nothing in my post. Rather you continued an anti-Griffin diatribe which is fine, but has nothing to do with the post you responded.
Remember?
[quote=30gut;1118279]They have got to find a competent TE in base personnel. I think the lack of success in the 1st unit base personnel runs is because Compton at TE invites teams to sell out run commit or at the very least commit his defender to 100% run. Gotta find a better answer.....or don't run from base personnel/formations?

Good to see the screens game, which was missing in the 1st 2 preseason games. We saw 2 screens in the 1st 2 series 1 WR screen(intercepted) and 1 RB screen against 2nd and long. Even saw some hurry up which is good.

If Kirk was playing as short a stint as Griffin vs the Lions he would have been 3-5 with 1 INT and 1 Fumbles snap.

Kirk took a helacious hit against a blitz on a pass that was broken up which luckily wasn't picked off and almost got Grant sent to the hospital. If it was Griffin throwing that pass he would have crucified, that would have been used in the referendum rhetoric.

Kirk and 1st unit offense didn't cross the 50 yard line til 6 minutes left in the 2nd qtr.
And the 2 minute drill TD drive was against the Ravens 2nd unit defense.

But it was good to see the offense get going eventually.
I like seeing Keenan suplex that WR.
Nice seeing 1st unit defense get a goalline stop even though it was against their 2nd O.

o I saw Reed make an effective block in the 1st qtr....maybe there's hope?

o Grant, Crowder and Jones looked good again

o Colt is the master of the bootleg, even under duress[/quote]
Your response:
[quote=That Guy;1118292]do you honestly think rgiii could have gotten 27 passes off without getting hurt again? that's like 7 sacks minimum for him...{non-related Griffin diatribe}[/quote]But now that you've seen the original post again maybe there is something you would actually want to respond to non-Griffin related? I won't hold my breath.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote]and how am i moving the goal posts? sacks = big hits = potential injuries. that doesn't seem that hard to follow.[/quote]You move the goal posts by asking a question (rhetorical one at that; which is posted above) about Griffin getting hurt then proceed to discuss sacks. Its like asking a question about elusiveness then talking about speed. They're related but not the same.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=That Guy;1118966]how many times was robert hit/sacked last year vs the other two qbs? how many times this preseason? how often did our other qb's get hurt and miss games the last 3-4 years? we gave up 0 sacks vs baltimore. I don't think it's hard to follow[/quote]Do any of your rhetorical questions have a point? I can tell you don't even know the full answer to your questions because Griffin and Colt were sacked at about the same rate last year. And again if you want to be accurate playing without Trent Williams and with a back-up LT puts whomever plays QB at a disadvantage. That is fact. I mean you can ignore that fact if it suits your point and you don't care about context. But it is a fact that against the Tampa Bay and the 49ers Griffin played without Trent. None of the other QBs played without Trent at LT.

Even more then regular season preseason evaluation requires close attention to situation/context. But if you want to use preseason sack % as a barometer for anything knock your self out. But it doesn't make much sense to me. Its like using preseason to say that Rashard Ross is going to lead the team in receptions or that Zach Zenner is going to be a top 5 rusher. But the fact about the Lions game that you keep bringing up was the pass protection was no adequate. In that game we started, started Willie Smith at LT our [B][SIZE="5"]4th OT[/SIZE][/B]. (Willie Smith who is no longer on the team btw). Hmmmnnn Willie Smith or Trent Williams...Trent Williams or Willie Smith...I wonder which one gives the QB better protection from taking sacks?

[quote]griffin gets hit too much, and you can see that the OL isn't as big a factor as your claiming when you look over the course of the last two years. robert gets hit a lot and others don't in the same situations, meaning that he's doing something that causes that (it's beyond the margin of error).[/quote]First why don't you start off by discussing something you can actually account for like sacks (as opposed to hits aren't recorded by QB). So again a key point you keep repeating is that the sack rate vs Griffin and the other QBs. But, and I'm sure you'll move the goal post here, but Griffin and Colt have about the same sack rate. So you wrong when it comes to Colt right off the bat.

[quote]This isn't rocket science, and i don't see why you have such a hard time with having him be accountable for his shortcomings[/quote]All this bluster and talk over a false assumption on your part. My post wasn't about Robert talking sacks or not taking sacks. I guess you, in a round about way wanted to talk about Griffin taking sacks and if that was your point. Then I would have agreed. In fact I've posted about Griffin, Colt and Kirk in detail about who takes more sacks, gets rid of the ball faster, etc in much more detail and accuracy then you. But thanks for telling me something I knew a long time ago.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

griffin has looked terrible, and i'm tired of excuses. that was the original point referring specifically to you once again stating that griffin would have been crucified for that throw/hit, pointing out how kirk's stat would have looked at their worst (griffin could have played longer, but, oh yeah, he gets hurt). RGIII is not a victim of cosmic circumstance, he's a player that's having trouble doing the basic things required to be successful.

you should also stop referring to questions as rhetorical when they aren't. that's the 2nd time you've done that in 3 posts. for the record his sack rate is higher than the other QBs this year and last year, he got hit more, he's gotten hurt more. those are all facts, so i'm actually not wrong. 15.4% >> 13.2%, but i was really referring to kirk (3.9%), and i'm sure you know that, but it doesn't fit your narrative as well.

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=That Guy;1119046]griffin has looked terrible, and i'm tired of excuses. that was the original point referring specifically to you once again stating that griffin would have been crucified for that throw/hit, pointing out how kirk's stat would have looked at their worst (griffin could have played longer, but, oh yeah, he gets hurt). RGIII is not a victim of cosmic circumstance, he's a player that's having trouble doing the basic things required to be successful.

you should also stop referring to questions as rhetorical when they aren't. that's the 2nd time you've done that in 3 posts. for the record his sack rate is higher than the other QBs this year and last year, he got hit more, he's gotten hurt more. those are all facts, so i'm actually not wrong. 15.4% >> 13.2%, but i was really referring to kirk (3.9%), and i'm sure you know that, but it doesn't fit your narrative as well.[/quote]

I tend to agree more with you on this debate, but, those questions do seem rhetorical. You weren't really asking for the answer, you knew the answer already, you were asking them to make a point. It was part of your rhetoric.

Unless, did you not know the answer to those questions? See, that was not rhetorical because I honestly don't know the answer, so I am asking, not just trying to make a point.

How long are you two going to fight about this anyway? That was a rhetorical question, because I don't want an answer, I'm just making a point.

The more you know . . .

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

If you had said Griffin has a higher sack rate then Cousins, (which you didn't) I would have agreed and like I told you already that would be very, very old news.

[quote=That Guy;1119046]. got hit more, he's gotten hurt more. those are all facts, so i'm actually not wrong. 15.4% >> 13.2%, but i was really referring to kirk (3.9%), and i'm sure you know that, but it doesn't fit your narrative as well.[/quote]Lol, how are you gonna quantify Griffin getting hit more? Do you personally chart individual QB hits? Lol. So your 'he got hit more' is not a fact its an opinion.

Lol, oh but you were really referring to Kirk, which you didn't type but i should know but it doesn't fit my narrative? Lol, dude have some accountability for what you type.

This is pretty much what I predicted:

[quote=30gut;1119039]First why don't you start off by discussing something you can actually account for like sacks (as opposed to hits aren't recorded by QB). So again a key point you keep repeating is that the sack rate vs Griffin and the other QBs. But, and I'm sure you'll move the goal post here, but Griffin and Colt have about the same sack rate. So you wrong when it comes to Colt right off the bat.[/quote]

Re: Plusses and Minuses vs. Ravens
 

[quote=Chico23231;1118428]Another minus...John Harbaugh is a effing dickhead. The yelling at Gruden thing was like "wtf, its preseason. chill" and then the reporter thing at halftime was just unacceptable. What a dick for zero reasons.[/quote]

I'm in the middle of watching the game,just saw that with Harbaugh at halftime and wondered if anyone else commented on that.Like you said,what a dick.And thats the Ravens sideline reporter,its not even a hostile reporter.Harbaugh got the dude all flustered.