How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

Can the Redskins defense be fixed at this point? Is it personnel, is it scheme, is it both? I was completely frustrated yesterday, as I have been for the past few weeks with the run stopping and overall effort on defense. This was supposed to be the strength of the team. To give up close to 200 yds rushing over the past 4 games is crazy!

The Patriots were out of O lineman and had in their 3rd string TE as a lineman, yet out d line was still gashed for 9 to 10 runs at will.

How can we fix this? This is after all the team that was stout against the run at the beginning of the year.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

You can't have a good defense if your offense doesn't do shit.

We had TWO turnovers yesterday and managed to come up with 3 points. We don't have a defense that can carry an inept offense. I don't get why this is so hard for people to understand.

Even teams with elite defenses like Seattle and the Jets must have some type of decent offensive output to keep them in games.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

We need an in impact pass rusher in the worst way.

We need help at the safety positions and need a replacement for Riley at LB.

Joe Barry DC has been average at best...

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

One thing that was a glaring issue yesterday and it was really pissing me off is Jason Hatcher. His health (bad knees) is starting to severely effect his play. It looked like he was playing on skates yesterday. Even when it was one on one with an OL. He was doing the old grab the OL in front of him and not shed him.
He plays a lot of snaps (bad coaching decision) and [B]he laid a big goose egg yesterday, NO TACKLES...NO Sacks.[/B] Not acceptable.
In his prime and when he was healthy he was a good player.....NOT anymore.
When they watch the film they will see it.
But I am surprised during the game they did not do anything about it. I could see it clearly and it was driving me nuts! More frustrating was when they brought Francios, Paea and Goldston, they were doing a good job. WTF!
I know Hatcher is a big, intimidating team leader, but there reaches a point in an older players career to accept a backup role or a specialized role Like Pass Rush specialist, like Jumpy Geathers did late in his career.
33 year old Jason Hatcher an dhis 40 year old knees (is) not an every down DL. Please get him the fuck off the starting line up. Getting a younger, healthy DL in his place will help immensely.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1128066]You can't have a good defense if your offense doesn't do shit.

We had TWO turnovers yesterday and managed to come up with 3 points. We don't have a defense that can carry an inept offense. I don't get why this is so hard for people to understand.

Even teams with elite defenses like Seattle and the Jets must have some type of decent offensive output to keep them in games.[/quote]

Did you read the title of the thread? It's about the defense. The offense obviously has issues too. Maybe you can start a thread about that. lol.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

To me it's more of a talent issue that can't be fixed until the offseason. These guys are not real good players. And leading the way is Hatcher, C. Golston, Riley, Murphy, Robinson and Ricky Jean. They're not getting the job done. And Kerrigan has been garbage in pass rush. If he's injured then get him off the field.

Hatcher plays one good game a year and that's it. What a waste of salary cap space. And Preston Smith needs to start making more plays.

The only guy on the front 7 that looks like a legit NFL player is Baker.

I would draft a corner, another ILB and two more guys on the line.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

Injuries have played a big part, even now that we have a couple guys back, they aren't at 100%. We need a linebacker that can cover RBs out of the back field. I think the loss of Junior Galette has been huge. I think if we add a couple key pieces in the offseason and are able to stay healthy, this defense has the potential to be a top 10 D. No reason to blow it up or talk about firing the coordinator or anything silly like that.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

1. re-examine our D line approach. Should Knighton, Hatcher, Paea, Baker be trying to penetrate the gaps or should they try and eat up the blockers to allow Robinson/Riley shoot the gaps?

It seems like every week we switch, which im sure is intentional based on our opponent but the front 7 is broken. No run D and no pressure for the past 4-5 games in a row.

2. better ILB - we can all see it. on run plays, the ILB are not shooting the gaps and are not coming off blocks to make plays. Poor angles, poor decisions. Ive seen Robinson and Riley hesitate to commit to a gap, waiting for the running back to decide and by that point you have O line guys coming up to make second level blocks.

Robinson and Riley need to be more aggressive and play on the other side of the LOS. They cant wait behind the line and hope the runner runs into them.

3. pass rusher - we need gallette and another stud pass rusher.

4. setting the edge on run plays - have to contain the outside runs to turn runners back inside. kerrigan and murphy/smith have to have outside leverage on the end blockers and trust Robinson/riley will fill the C gaps.

good news - all of this is fixable. We have money next offseason and can move on from hatcher and riley. We need to add 4 starters on D next year. OLB, DE, ILB, CB3.

Assuming we resign knighton, who i kinda think doesnt like the vibe here compared to denver but he wont really be missed.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

Keenan Robinson is playing hurt, and he gets hurt too much. We really need alot of linebackers.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

At least give credit for Robinson for playing hurt.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

Defense started the season number 1 after week 4. Injuries have killed us and teams have also stopped our offense so the defense is out there alot. Barry has done ok with what he has. We have no pass rusher at all, smith may turn Into the guy but Kerrigan has fallen off fast this yr. Does he even have a sack this yr? I'm seriously asking

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

Another off-season of Scott..........

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

Our ILB had 0 tackles when the opposing team ran 30x.

Ummmmm. Yea

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

Why the heck did we get BARRY as DC ?? was he not the DC of the 0-16 lions?? and if he did not feel like he was failing this team why would he stand outside the locker room and tell the players to forget about this game??? this is the NFL not some div 3 college team..so now we got coaches saying its okay to lose..REALLY ???? I'm sorry that was weak ..Am i the only one that feels this way?

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

Talent level is low. No actual impact players. We have a few good fit guys but you have to surround those types with playmakers.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

I really like Keenan Robinson, but he has no one to support him on the inside. Riley is garbage.

And don't get me started on the secondary. I like Breeland but he's inconsistent. Culliver has been hot garbage all year. What the hell did we bring him here for?

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

Pay Jim Schwartz. Go 4-3.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1128071]Did you read the title of the thread? It's about the defense. The offense obviously has issues too. Maybe you can start a thread about that. lol.[/QUOTE]
Maybe I'm being an a-hole about it, I just don't understand the need for this thread after a game where the defense had two takeaways, kept the team in the game until the second half, and prevented the best offense in the NFL to completely blow us out of us water.

The Redskins defense could have kept the Pats to 14 points and we still would have lost.

I'm seeing good points being made about the needs on defense. But if we had a running game and receivers who catch, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I trust Scot in making the necessary changes on defense. But we'll be having the same conversation next year if the offense doesn't do its part.

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Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1128066]You can't have a good defense if your offense doesn't do shit.

We had TWO turnovers yesterday and managed to come up with 3 points. We don't have a defense that can carry an inept offense. I don't get why this is so hard for people to understand.

Even teams with elite defenses like Seattle and the Jets must have some type of decent offensive output to keep them in games.[/quote]

I think its this. When the offense could at least run the bloody ball and look like an offense the D was great. Hail it even managed to bail the O at when they made turnovers in the worst possible spots. Considering this is Barry's first year here I don't think hes doing as badly as some make it out to be.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

You're not going to "fix" anything in the middle of the season after the trade deadline with this many injuries.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

Going to a one-gap scheme along the defensive line is causing issues - the plus is the linemen shoot gaps and penetrate to disrupt running plays in the backfield and get additional pressure on the passer. Two problems with that:

1) our D line isn't penetrating often enough lately

2) it means guards and centers are getting to the second level much more easily as our line shoots by, and thus our middle LBs are getting blocked. It seems to me if you're going to run a successful 1-gap like Barry is running, you need your MLBs to be athletic enough and quick enough to beat those guards and centers to the spots. Right now Robinson and Riley look too slow.

The one-gap puts the onus on the middle LBs to fight through the wash. Robinson and Riley looked better under Haslett when the line was two-gapping and keeping them clean to run to the ball. Now they're getting exposed for being fairly mediocre (in Robinson's case) and downright inadequate (in Riley's case).

If we're going to run a one-gap we need a stud MLB in there.

Also what does Trent Murphy even do?

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

But guys, putting the defense's inability to stop the run on the offense is absolutely asinine. Teams are not running on us because they have a lead, they're running on us because we give up 5 yards a carry. That comes down to winning at the line of scrimmage and getting to the ball carrier, which we're not doing.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

PS Barry ran a talent-less Lions defense several years ago. They ranked 32nd in the NFL.

He's not adding much value here either.

Still can't believe we passed on Wade Phillips.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

[quote=Schneed10;1128170]PS Barry ran a talent-less Lions defense several years ago. They ranked 32nd in the NFL.

He's not adding much value here either.

Still can't believe we passed on Wade Phillips.[/quote]

I have to believe Wade passed on us.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

I thought Wade wanted to be here and was dismayed that he was without a job for so long.


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Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

I didn't post a link because I'm a computer-illiterate old fart, but there is an article by The Outsider in the Washington Post that illustrates some of the reasons we're not stopping the run.

If someone would be so kind as to link the article, I would appreciate it.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1128151]Pay Jim Schwartz. Go 4-3.[/quote]

When we hire Sean Payton as the HC, Schwartz would be the logical choice as the DC

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

There isn't much talent on defense right now, need alot of players. Also guys that don't get banged up in the first month, and cant sustain play beyond htat.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

Yeah injuries have been so rough on us this year that the thought has actually [I]crossed my mind[/I] that McLoughan could be telling Jay to hold guys out to give him a higher draft pick.

I'm not saying that's what's happening, but with this many injuries it drives you crazy enough to believe in conspiracy theories.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1128177]I didn't post a link because I'm a computer-illiterate old fart, but there is an article by The Outsider in the Washington Post that illustrates some of the reasons we're not stopping the run.

If someone would be so kind as to link the article, I would appreciate it.[/quote]

[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2015/11/09/a-closer-look-at-how-the-redskins-run-defense-went-awry-against-the-patriots/[/url]

^^ this article just focuses on the run D problems vs the Pats but the same problems have been happening for weeks.

DE, OLB and ILB seem lost.

no gap integrity.

no one is winning a 1 on 1 battle.

no one on the DL line is getting a push anymore.

no one is getting off blocks.

opponents OL are able to get to second level blocking too easy.

no outside contain.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1128066]You can't have a good defense if your offense doesn't do shit.

We had TWO turnovers yesterday and managed to come up with 3 points. We don't have a defense that can carry an inept offense. I don't get why this is so hard for people to understand.

Even teams with elite defenses like Seattle and the Jets must have some type of decent offensive output to keep them in games.[/quote]Seattle, Denver, and Baltimore have had the defense carry the team.

Our defense has been bad all seaon. The early stats were fools gold. The only good offense we played our first few games, the vagiants, shredded our D.

Fire our DC. If we are going to stay 3-4, getting a dominant NT should be our highest priority after QB.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

Joe Barry was hired after Scot came on board.

Have to think Scot had final say and will not can his guy 1 year into a rebuilding process.

We dont need to fire anybody.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

[quote=over the mountain;1128193]Joe Barry was hired after Scot came on board.

Have to think Scot had final say and will not can his guy 1 year into a rebuilding process.

We dont need to fire anybody.[/quote]

I don't think so. Coaching staff hires are the head coach's decision. Unless we are going from a meddling owner to a meddling GM, I don't think that is the case.

I'm sure McCloughan got to meet with Barry and probably did give Jay a positive opinion of Barry, but I'm quite sure that was Jay's decision.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

But yeah I don't think I'd fire him yet. Unless there's a candidate you love who comes available this offseason, I think you stick with it.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

Hard to run and gauge any scehem when the talent level isn't there. Our LBs are not goo.

Robinson and Kerrigan are good pieces that need someone else to make them better. Murphy seemed at the time and now has proven to be a bad pick. Never was sure why we took him. Riley is a flaming bag of poo as far as I am concerned on the field.

Really not sure why the line has been so mediocre. There's some talent there but it doesn't seem to be working. Maybe some injuries and aging have diminished the performance. Not sure but right now our only hope is that the line starts to plays better. That'll take a little heat off the LBs and may flatten this back out a bit.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

Not sure why as a franchise we have stayed committed to the 3-4. It seems like ever since we made that switch we haven't been able to sign the proper personnel for it. It seems like a real hindrance just how much linebackers are asked to play in coverage. I know they have to do it sometimes in the 4-3 too, but it seems like such a big part of the 3-4 scheme that you have linebackers who may be otherwise good enough, looking like scrubs out there trying to play coverage.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

I'm convinced this has to be scheme. I started the thread to bette understand that. The skins UPGRADED the D line this year, yet the only player i see contributing on a consistent basis is Baker (holdover from last year). Is the scheme flawed?

7 of the 8 leading tacklers for the Skins are either CB or Safteys, I have to think that this is not how the defense should behave.

[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/wsh/washington-redskins]Washington Redskins 2015 Statistics - Team and Player Stats - ESPN[/url]

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1128188]Seattle, Denver, and [B]Baltimore[/B] have had the defense carry the team.

Our defense has been bad all seaon. The early stats were fools gold. The only good offense we played our first few games, the vagiants, shredded our D.

Fire our DC. If we are going to stay 3-4, getting a dominant NT should be our highest priority after QB.[/quote]

You can't be talking about this year's Ravens defensive team because they stink to the high heavens.

We're better than they are in the majority of the stats. Ranking too.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

[quote=NoCalHail;1128212]Not sure why as a franchise we have stayed committed to the 3-4. It seems like ever since we made that switch we haven't been able to sign the proper personnel for it. It seems like a real hindrance just how much linebackers are asked to play in coverage. I know they have to do it sometimes in the 4-3 too, but it seems like such a big part of the 3-4 scheme that you have linebackers who may be otherwise good enough, looking like scrubs out there trying to play coverage.[/quote]

With a 3-4, you're looking for basically 3 different types of DL.

NT, which plays a fraction of the defensive snaps. 1 roster spot and big money to get a good one, spent on probably less than half the defensive snaps. How many good NT can you find in the draft year in and year out?

DE, these are more common and easier to find.

OLB, how many good 3-4 OLB are you going to find in the draft. These guys are athletic freaks who can beat tackles as well as drop into coverage. Again, there just aren't many of them out there that can handle all the responsibilities well. It's ridiculous to ask Murphy or Smith to cover a TE or RB.

From a roster standpoint, finding 2 types of quality 4-3 DL in the draft and FA is going to be so much easier because there are simply more available and are more common in college. I realize there are slight differences in 1 tec v 3 tec and all that but they are still more similar to each other than 3-4 personnel.

Anybody who says a 3-4 is harder to game plan against didn't watch Buffalo last year or hasn't seen Carolina the last 3 years.

Re: How to fix the Skins' Defense
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1128214]You can't be talking about this year's Ravens defensive team because they stink to the high heavens.

We're better than they are in the majority of the stats. Ranking too.[/quote]This year not the Ravens, though they have been a blueprint for the defense carrying the rest of the team, until recently. Going way back to their 2000 SB.