Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

News broke today that Chris Culliver has been cut. McLovin' says the Norman signing and the fact they drafted Fuller is what sealed the deal. I really liked Culliver, and I thought he would stick around. But that $8 mil is too much for a guy with two bad knees. I wonder if we could resign the guy at a much more affordable deal?

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

Am talking to Daseal and I agree with him: We both were kind of nervous with all the loyalty shown to players he's previously dealt with. This means he's making football decisions.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

Like you, I wonder whether we might have had a shot at reducing that number. With his health and production last year, hard to say $8M made sense. But I'd love to have him at a lower number, particularly given his apparent leadership in the locker room.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

Per Keim:

Redskins general manager Scot McCloughan said he'd have no problem bringing Chris Culliver back. But McCloughan... es.pn/1Y3rQYB

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1143348]Per Keim:

Redskins general manager Scot McCloughan said he'd have no problem bringing Chris Culliver back. But McCloughan... es.pn/1Y3rQYB[/quote]

I wonder why the Redskins didn't offer to re-structure the contract? Why not try if you're interested in the player? Unless they're not....

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

Fuller is no sure thing, especially since he had microfracture surgery.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

It sucks for him.

But not surprising consider the injury and how many players we've added at his position.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

this past injury was extremely concerning for the staff. Its a business and now look at what McC did...culliver and Norman were essentially same cap hits this year. We upgraded big time

Also, I bet this gives Breeland a lot of confidence...he looked like he was being squeezed a little with all these moves at corner. Team is saying your our guy opposite Norman....I like that a lot.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

Culliver didn't blow me away and at $8M he can walk. The Redskins will gladly let him shop the market and see what his true market value is rather than negotiate and end up overpaying for a player that they could afford to live without. My biggest complaint with him, much like D-Hall a few years back, was that he can't shut up. There's a point where you need to understand that your actions are going to cost the team. Norman is the same problem as well. We'll see how that shakes up but I tend to prefer players who are cocky but silent..

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

The thing about Culliver was the energy and competitiveness he brought to the team during games and practices. When he was out last year, coaches and players talked about how much they missed what he brought.

Fuller, as a substitute for Cully, makes me a little nervous. Growing up in NorCal, I was a big Chris Webber fan when he was on the Warriors and Kings. When he had the microfracture surgery, they said he probably would only hold up a few years. A few years was right, and there was a dramatic dropoff in his abilities. I know comparing football and basketball is apples to oranges, and Webber was in his thirties when he had the surgery. But still, Microfracture surgery is no joke.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

[quote=calia;1143349]I wonder why the Redskins didn't offer to re-structure the contract? Why not try if you're interested in the player? Unless they're not....[/quote]

I believe a lot of times teams want to let the player see if they can get a better deal elsewhere, so they let them hit free agency.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

Yea im with the general consensus on this, let emntest the market, see what other teams are offering him... go from thereb

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

Liked Cully, but not really blown away by him. On the field, he seemed okay and improving, but not a shut down type corner. I thought as a 3rd corner he gave us great (but expensive) depth. Wouldn't mind him coming back. Just not at that price.

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I was terribly unimpressed with Culliver, even when he was healthy.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

What is the cap savings and/or cap hit to release him?

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

Shrewd decision that leaves emotion out of the equation. You know I love that.

He was going to count $9.25M on the cap this year. Instead, by cutting him, we carry a $3.75M dead cap charge, thereby freeing $5.5M in cap space.

In other words, we just created $5.5M in cap space with this move.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

[quote=skinsy;1143354]The thing about Culliver was the energy and competitiveness he brought to the team during games and practices. When he was out last year, coaches and players talked about how much they missed what he brought.

Fuller, as a substitute for Cully, makes me a little nervous. Growing up in NorCal, I was a big Chris Webber fan when he was on the Warriors and Kings. When he had the microfracture surgery, they said he probably would only hold up a few years. A few years was right, and there was a dramatic dropoff in his abilities. I know comparing football and basketball is apples to oranges, and Webber was in his thirties when he had the surgery. But still, Microfracture surgery is no joke.[/quote]

Really Breeland/Norman is the substitute for what Culliver was being paid. Fuller will have time to work through to the NFL level and see what he can do.

This was the right move, even as much as it stinks for Culliver personally.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

Wish we kept him. There were other players that could be let go to save cap space. They must still be really confident in Dunbar which is good cause I like him. Best of luck Cully, hopefully he still comes back.

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Not surprised given the pickups of Norman and Fuller.

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I certainly wont miss him.
He was barely a Redskin.
He had no impact.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

Also really want to see if Dunbar can take another step forward. Very intriguing player for us.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

[quote=Defensewins;1143366]What is the cap savings and/or cap hit to release him?[/quote]

That's the part I'm scratching my head about. We saved $5.5 mil cutting him now whereas we would have saved $8 mil cutting him after 6/1. Why not wait. $2.5 mil is a lot.

@granthpaulsen "Scot McCloughan annouces #Redskins released CB Chris Culliver. Releasing Culliver before 6/1 saves $5.5M in cap. Would've saved $8M post 6/1"

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1143389]That's the part I'm scratching my head about. We saved $5.5 mil cutting him now whereas we would have saved $8 mil cutting him after 6/1. Why not wait. $2.5 mil is a lot.[/quote]

I think you can designate this a post-6/1 cut.. News stories are saying [URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15447487/washington-redskins-release-veteran-corner-chris-culliver"]$8 million dollar savings.[/URL]

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

[quote=ethat001;1143390]I think you can designate this a post-6/1 cut.. News stories are saying [URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15447487/washington-redskins-release-veteran-corner-chris-culliver"]$8 million dollar savings.[/URL][/quote]

I edited my post to include the tweet where I saw it. I didn't know you could predate a release like that.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

Schneed is it true we would save $8 mil instead of $5.5 if we cut him after 6/1?

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1143392]Schneed is it true we would save $8 mil instead of $5.5 if we cut him after 6/1?[/quote]

Yes, but then we would have been eating $2.5M of dead money next year, as opposed to zero with the way we're doing it.

If you release a player after June 1 then you get to push off a portion of the dead money burden until next year. The Redskins chose to take the hit now to increase flexibility next year. Wise, given that Reed, Cousins, the WRs and others will all be up for new deals.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

He got a lot of money for not doing a god damn thing. Glad that suspension nullified that guaranteed salary this year. Hit the road jack.

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he was released with post june 1 per kien (espn blog)

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

Yep. Per NFL Trade Rumors also. Redskins Released CB Chris Culliver With Post-June 1 Designation, Picked Up $8M In Cap Room bit.ly/1WDSZCw #Redskins

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

Not sure I understand the future dating part.
Maybe they did it to give him more time to find a new team.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;1143402]Not sure I understand the future dating part.
Maybe they did it to give him more time to find a new team.[/quote]

It also gives CC and his agent time to look around for a good deal, fail to find it, and then come back to the Redskins for much less money, if that's what both sides decide to do.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

Is there another move they are trying to make? What do we need $8mil in cap space for? Maybe they're hoping for a shot at a C, NT, or RB that will be released?

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

[quote=That Guy;1143398]he was released with post june 1 per kien (espn blog)[/quote]

Ah you're right, so it is.

For those wondering how this works, here's the rundown.

When you release a player, you have to recognize any money you paid to him on your cap in the year you released him. In Culliver's case, we paid him a $5M signing bonus up front when he signed him to his 4 year deal. That $5M was to spread evenly to the cap over the course of the 4 years, meaning that each year on the roster the signing bonus was to count $1.25M each season (four seasons x 1.25M = $5M signing bonus).

He played one season for us, meaning we carried the first year's portion of that bonus last year. We still have 3 more years of it that still need to hit our cap books. When we released him, we're forced to carry all the rest of it, which is the remaining $3.75M.

The rules used to be that if you released a player after June 1, you could recognize one year's portion of the signing bonus on your cap this year, and the rest would go on the next year's cap. So if we released him after June 1, we would carry $1.25 on the 2016 cap, and then the remaining $2.5M on the 2017 cap.

But the NFL Players Association thought it was shitty that the player would hit the free agent market on June 1, when most teams had their rosters set. It meant the player wouldn't have much of a market. So they said how about we let you designate players as a post-June 1 release for cap purposes, but you can go ahead and release him now before June 1 so that he can hit the market and try to get the best deal. So they did that.

So Culliver gets released now, but for cap purposes only they treat him as being released after June 1. So the Redskins save his $9.25M salary this year, and carry $1.25M of dead cap money this year, thus freeing $8M in cap space in 2016.

They then will carry $2.5M in dead cap space for him in 2017.

There you have it, clear as mud. I would have preferred they take the full cap hit now, but it's of little consequence in the end.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

[quote=WillH;1143406]Is there another move they are trying to make? What do we need $8mil in cap space for? Maybe they're hoping for a shot at a C, NT, or RB that will be released?[/quote]

Given that you can carry over any cap excess from year to year, I think this move has a much to do with that than anything. If it looks like he will rarely play, there isnt much reason to have his salary on the books. Given Norman and Breeland will be starters, and they dont want to expose Fuller or Dunbar, its probably better long term to go ahead and do it. Its 8 mil against the cap, and since it can carry over, you make the move even if no other move is planned.

Without cap space being allowed to be carried over, it now makes these moves more common. Prior to that, it was only a question of whether cap space was needed this year. Now its about more than that. I think it also diminshes the pre/post june 1 cuts also. As long as a team is smart with the cap, then saving 8 mil this year for Culliver as opposed to 5.5 mil doesnt matter as much. Carry 2.5 mil over and have 2.5 mil dead cap next year is equal to carrying nothing over and not having 2.5 mil in dead cap next year. It all evens out in the long run (as long as your actions are cap conscious to begin with).

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

they probably wanted the space now in case there's someone else to sign (like pierre thomas). you want at least 3m free going into sep 1st for mid season injury signings etc, and we needed to free up some space for the rookies anyways.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

[quote=Skinzman;1143412]Given that you can carry over any cap excess from year to year, I think this move has a much to do with that than anything. If it looks like he will rarely play, there isnt much reason to have his salary on the books. Given Norman and Breeland will be starters, and they dont want to expose Fuller or Dunbar, its probably better long term to go ahead and do it. Its 8 mil against the cap, and since it can carry over, you make the move even if no other move is planned.

Without cap space being allowed to be carried over, it now makes these moves more common. Prior to that, it was only a question of whether cap space was needed this year. Now its about more than that. I think it also diminshes the pre/post june 1 cuts also. As long as a team is smart with the cap, then saving 8 mil this year for Culliver as opposed to 5.5 mil doesnt matter as much. Carry 2.5 mil over and have 2.5 mil dead cap next year is equal to carrying nothing over and not having 2.5 mil in dead cap next year. It all evens out in the long run (as long as your actions are cap conscious to begin with).[/quote]

Oh I didn't realize that. Is that a newer rule?

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[quote=WillH;1143439]Oh I didn't realize that. Is that a newer rule?[/quote]

well, as of the last cba, so not that new, but yeah.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

[quote=WillH;1143406]Is there another move they are trying to make? What do we need $8mil in cap space for? Maybe they're hoping for a shot at a C, NT, or RB that will be released?[/quote]

I believe it is to have flexibility just case another good player becomes available from now to beginning of season. As it always happens. If not then we use it for next year. Rookies need to be signed.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

[quote=WillH;1143406]Is there another move they are trying to make? What do we need $8mil in cap space for? Maybe they're hoping for a shot at a C, NT, or RB that will be released?[/quote]

I think you are correct. I would strongly suspect another vet addition is coming most likely to the D-line or RB.

I think we are willing to roll with Kory L and Grimace at Center. Spencer Long most likely isn't moving because of his positive play at Guard. Its really ashamed we couldn't get a center because our running game seemed to really suffer from the lack of inside push.

Thomas is a strong candidate for RB, but their are other options out there as well.

Re: Reactions about Chris Culliver being cut?
 

I read somewhere that Scot is planning to use those picks he acquired next year to pick up needs THIS year if someone is available. Wondering if a 4th could pry a decent center from someone. Love that we have those since he can wheel and deal THIS year without worrying about wasting our original picks.