In Scot we trust?
 

I'm not saying fire the GM, but this is not the team that McCloughan promised when he took the job. He sold us visions of tough, physical teams, and what we saw the last two home games, with a playoff berth at stake, was a butter-soft team on both sides of the ball. We can't run the ball, and we can't stop opponents from running down our throat. That's a bad recipe for winning December games when the weather is often a factor. It is time that Scot finally addresses our interior deficiencies on both lines through the draft and free agency. I hope that Josh Doctson is a stud, because that draft spot could have been used to fill a glaring deficiency in this lost season.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;1161040]I'm not saying fire the GM, but this is not the team that McGloughan promised when he took the job. He sold us visions of tough, physical teams, and what we saw the last two home games, with a playoff berth at stake, was a butter-soft team on both sides of the ball. We can't run the ball, and we can't stop opponents from running down our throat. That's a bad recipe for winning December games when the weather is often a factor. It is time that Scot finally addresses our interior deficiencies on both lines through the draft and free agency. I hope that Josh Doctson is a stud, because that draft spot could have been used to fill a glaring deficiency in this lost season.[/quote]

You make good points but I haven't lost faith. I believe Ryan Kelly was McC's target in the draft last year, however he was snatched up a couple picks before our spot. This team has too many holes to trade up so he stayed put and picked who he thought was the best available player on the board. Sure after a nagging injury filled season where he never played it looks bad. But if we let D.Jax walk and he steps up next year after what basically amounted to a redshirt freshman year in the NFL, our tune will change entirely.

I also agree our needs need to be filled this offseason. But picking a player you don't necessarily believe is the best pick to fill a need over a guy you think will be a strong player for a long time rarely works out. Occasionally you might get lucky and your BPA might fill a need. But that's even more rare. You have to trust the work that your scouts do and hope it works out.

On your other issue, I also agree that this team has looked soft. From poor tackling to poor run blocking there's no shortage of things to fix. But I haven't seen anything that suggests McC isn't capable of fixing the holes on our roster. I won't mind if the Redskins dip their toes in the FA pool this year, I just don't want to pay for top-end talent. Get some solid players to fill some holes that you think the draft has no change for filling. For example, if you think safety or defensive line has a strong class, hold off until the draft to do anything. But if you a see a solid middle linebacker in FA, give him a market value deal. I like Will Compton and Mason Foster as people, but we could use a speed upgrade at LB. Maybe there's an impact DT that won't cost stupid money in FA. I think anybody not named Chris Baker on the d-line is replaceable. And don't get me started on safety. Cravens might fit well there next year but that's hardly a given. Finally, we can't ignore trades. I don't think we have much value to offer but I'm sure there are players who are bad fits on their current teams that could be had for a decent price.

TL;DR: Keep the faith bro. McC is a talent evaluator first and foremost, I have yet to see anything that suggests he is worse at it then Vinny was. And for all the years Vinny got, I think we could afford to give McC another year or two to work with. Yeah our first round pick got injured once, and it ruined his season. Surprise! It happens every year to multiple teams. It doesn't mean anything. Keep the faith bro.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

I am not as confident in Scot as most people on this board. He has had two drafts with three significant contributors in each class. 2015 Scheriff, Smith, and Crowder. 2016 Cravens, Fuller and UDFA Kelly. Granted there were injuries. However, this brief track record is nothing to brag about . He passed on D lineman when the need was obvious.

The free agent record is mediocre at best. J Johnson,Bruton, Toler, Reyes, Culliver, etc. Sure most of these are low level contracts, but his west coast magic appears to be gone.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

Here is a point. Scott M came on board in early 2015. We have had 2 winning seasons. Chicago also got their new GM in early 2015. Which team do you think is on better shape? At some point in the past we would argue we are as bad as the Clevelands of the world. It is better from a rebuilding process to miss the playoffs this year. We are getting there folks just hang on.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[QUOTE=Irrefutable;1161042]I am not as confident in Scot as most people on this board. He has had two drafts with three significant contributors in each class. 2015 Scheriff, Smith, and Crowder. 2016 Cravens, Fuller and UDFA Kelly. Granted there were injuries. However, this brief track record is nothing to brag about . He passed on D lineman when the need was obvious.



The free agent record is mediocre at best. J Johnson,Bruton, Toler, Reyes, Culliver, etc. Sure most of these are low level contracts, but his west coast magic appears to be gone.[/QUOTE]



Smith????? Fuller????? Kelly????? Wth have they contributed? They are bodies. They are able to play because we have nobody else and zero depth i guess.
The free agent moves are laughable. The two drafts so far are fucking atrocious.
This guy is not the savior we all thought he was.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

All I know is the Redskins of old were perennial last place finishers in the division. We've definitely made progress under McCloughan but there's plenty more work to do.

I'm really not sure what anyone expected after just 2 seasons, but back to back winning seasons is a good start and something I'm sure all of you would have signed on for at the start.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[quote=MTK;1161055]All I know is the Redskins of old were perennial last place finishers in the division. We've definitely made progress under McCloughan but there's plenty more work to do.

I'm really not sure what anyone expected after just 2 seasons, but back to back winning seasons is a good start and something I'm sure all of you would have signed on for at the start.[/quote]

This.
We are one missed field goal, 2 bad throws and one drive allowed from being 12 - 4. Not saying we deserve to be 12 and 4, but we are getting there.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1161058]This.
We are one missed field goal, 2 bad throws and one drive allowed from being 12 - 4. Not saying we deserve to be 12 and 4, but we are getting there.[/quote]

That is true,but that doesnt change the fact that Scot's pickups and drafting have been mediocre at best.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

I think Scot has a long term plan that is difficult for us fans to see the forest from the trees. Every move restructuring deals, resigning and releasing players has a place in his plan. I am willing to wait a few years to see how this plan plays out. Back to back winning seasons for the first time in the Dan Snyder era is validation enough for me.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[QUOTE=htownskinfan;1161076]That is true,but that doesnt change the fact that Scot's pickups and drafting have been mediocre at best.[/QUOTE]


And yet we have a winning record on his watch. It's too early to properly grade his drafts.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1161042]I am not as confident in Scot as most people on this board. He has had two drafts with three significant contributors in each class. 2015 Scheriff, Smith, and Crowder. 2016 Cravens, Fuller and UDFA Kelly. Granted there were injuries. However, this brief track record is nothing to brag about . [B]He passed on D lineman when the need was obvious.[/B]

The free agent record is mediocre at best. J Johnson,Bruton, Toler, Reyes, Culliver, etc. Sure most of these are low level contracts, but his west coast magic appears to be gone.[/quote]

Is it time already for the annual BPA vs. draft for need argument? I hope not because I get clobbered in every pre-draft thread for my philosophical lean towards drafting for need after the first round. I just want to say that we can't always have it both ways; that is, drafting BPA and drafting for need at the same time.

So, what's the vehicle to target the filling of major holes, then? Isn't much of it done via FA? If that is the case, then I'd like to see Scott go for more players who solve position needs vs. stop-gaps in FA. We have enough cap room to do that this year.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[quote=punch it in;1161053]Smith????? Fuller????? Kelly????? Wth have they contributed? They are bodies. They are able to play because we have nobody else and zero depth i guess.
The free agent moves are laughable. The two drafts so far are fucking atrocious.
This guy is not the savior we all thought he was.[/quote]

I did not say a high level of contribution. Smith has made a few plays and looked promising after last year. This year has been a major disappointment... except for a few plays. Fuller is ok, also a disappointment. Kelly was undrafted and when he ever gets some blocking he can be a solid addition.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

Since he's took over, we are over 500. Folks it takes time to build the franchise up. We have some great pieces. Dallas built their team with OL for 4 straight years and now it's paying off. We can do the same. Remember only 1 team wins it all.

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Re: In Scot we trust?
 

We need DT, MLB, S, pass rusher, RB, WR. We'll be fine, got cash and picks. Quit panicking, Scot ain't Vinny.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1161086]We need DT, MLB, S, pass rusher, RB, WR. We'll be fine, got cash and picks. Quit panicking, Scot ain't Vinny.[/QUOTE]



Rite instead of winning 4 games a year were going to win 8! Woot woot! Lol

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[quote=punch it in;1161053]Smith????? Fuller????? Kelly????? Wth have they contributed? They are bodies. They are able to play because we have nobody else and zero depth i guess.
The free agent moves are laughable. The two drafts so far are fucking atrocious.
This guy is not the savior we all thought he was.[/quote]

How quickly you forget about the rest of his picks. jamison crowder, brandon scherff, and kyshoen jarrett.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[quote=punch it in;1161053]Smith????? Fuller????? Kelly????? Wth have they contributed? They are bodies. They are able to play because we have nobody else and zero depth i guess.
The free agent moves are laughable. The two drafts so far are fucking atrocious.
This guy is not the savior we all thought he was.[/quote]

Are you still drunk from last night? Jeez

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

Being a GM is not an easy job. He bought low on some free agent guys to help fill out the roster, it was zero risk and we should have made the playoffs again this year, absent a few games we should have won that we didn't. I will take back to back over .500 seasons.

Doctson was the right pick with the talent on the board at the time and our teams WR situation going into this off season. D-Jax is not coming back and Doctson will now be a starter. You can't control injuries, and it was better to have him sit, than have a full blown tear.

If we're aware of it, then i'm 100% confident SM knows the defense needs a lot of work. We need a new NT, DE, ILB, at least 1 new safety, and possibly an upgrade over Breeland. That's at least 4 new starters, and you can legitimately argue we need more than that.

But we have an awesome cap situation, extra picks, and really no holes on offense that we will need to spend money/picks on. I would say LG/WR (already drafted) might be the only positions we have a new starter next year.

I think next year, obviously barring injuries, is the 1st of many years we starting winning double digit games and becoming playoff regulars.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[quote=punch it in;1161087]Rite instead of winning 4 games a year were going to win 8! Woot woot! Lol[/quote]

How many did we win this year and last year? How about the previous 20+ years? Scot is one of the best current GM's, you want 20 years of shit go get another one.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1161090]How quickly you forget about the rest of his picks. jamison crowder, brandon scherff, and kyshoen jarrett.[/quote]

Really, Scherff was the 5th pick in the draft. I guess Scot is a genius for finding him. Brandon is a very good player, however they thought he was a tackle... guards are very rarely top 10 picks.

Crowder was a good pick. And Jarrett's career is over. Two good picks out of 14 or so is not a good batting average.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1161100]Really, Scherff was the 5th pick in the draft. I guess Scot is a genius for finding him. Brandon is a very good player, however they thought he was a tackle... guards are very rarely top 10 picks.

Crowder was a good pick. And Jarrett's career is over. Two good picks out of 14 or so is not a good batting average.[/quote]

Leonard Williams make the pro bowl? Brandon did.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

They drafted him with right tackle in mind but they knew he could switch to guard if need be. Not sure why that matters anyway, the end result is a pro bowl player. You have to hit home runs with your top picks and he did there.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

I'm 100% on board with SM and the direction the team is going. Stay the course and keep making the draft our bread and butter. I have 0 desire to go back to the old way of doing things. But I do feel we need to add a few free agents this year.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

I cannot believe that some are doubting SMGM only two years into his stint. In his first year the team made the playoffs and this year they were in the hunt until the very end of the season. Obviously he has something to do with it.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[quote=punch it in;1161087]Rite instead of winning 4 games a year were going to win 8! Woot woot! Lol[/quote]

Punch that is progress. We're a competitive football team and that wasn't the case in 13 and 14. We were bottom feeders during those years.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[quote=MTK;1161114]They drafted him with right tackle in mind but they knew he could switch to guard if need be. Not sure why that matters anyway, the end result is a pro bowl player. You have to hit home runs with your top picks and he did there.[/quote]

Lol I can't believe we're debating drafting a guard in the top five was worth it after he made his first career Pro Bowl in his second season. Jesus eff.

And you can try to discredit the Kyshoen Jarrett pick all you want but he was making an impact before he suffered a freak injury that ruined his career. Don't put that on the GM.

Also Punch, I respect you but that post you made about 2 worthless drafts is weak as fuck. Pray tell, how many fucking rookie corners stepped in from day one and played outstanding. Corner and wide receiver both take time to learn and play. Posts like yours is the reason every talent evaluator in the NFL don't respect fan opinions.

PS Irrefutable, it's fucking laughable that you are trying to criticize him for the Scherff pick. MFer, first overall picks have been, and will continue to be busts. Even the most highly rated prospects are 50/50 crapshoots at best. For fucking years we waited for a front office that wanted to build around the draft, and when we finally get one we are getting all pissy and moany because we're not contenders after 2 seasons? Weak.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[QUOTE=OmahaRedskins;1161090]How quickly you forget about the rest of his picks. jamison crowder, brandon scherff, and kyshoen jarrett.[/QUOTE]



Did not forget about anything. But two good picks in two years is not so great. Maybe a couple more pan out, but as it stands now - a couple key guys. That is not good enough to take it to the next level. Hence we took a small step back this year.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

IMO his plan is to start to shift some dollars away from the offense this offseason. Two thirds of our cap are spent on offense. He spent some picks on offense, we will probably see more of a defensive focus. I think we will probably draft another RB though, somewhere but who knows. The first round defensive talent is better this year, just not as deep as last year.

We have more depth on the roster, but our front seven is just not talented. It hurts McLovin a bit that guys like Preston Smith & Matt Jones took steps back. However top to bottom his drafting is well above average, more picks stick.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1161058]This.
We are one missed field goal, 2 bad throws and one drive allowed from being 12 - 4. Not saying we deserve to be 12 and 4, but we are getting there.[/quote]


[B]Agree with this. We are entitled to be pissed off, a day after a tragic loss. We're not a contending team yet -- BUT we're darn sure much better than 2 years ago when Scott took over.
[/B]

Scot has missed on things, but still early, and more good than bad:
1) First big move -> bench RG3 after 3rd preseason game. Took guts at time, right move.
2) Setting tone - whether right move or not, letting Amerson go was a signal to players. More accountability. Team culture also seems more cohesive, less rumors, and although not perfect (because of losses) - is better than years past.
3) Better special teams due to better depth. Verdict still out on kicker
4) Draft
-> Very good: Crowder, Scherff (always arguable Williams would've been more needs-based)
-> Has potential: Sua Cravens, P.Smith, Kelley (UDFA)
-> Too early: Doctson, Fuller
-> Injured/traded: K.Jarrett (was v.good), Austin Reiter (looked good after traded)
-> Probably backups: ?Kouandjio, ?Spaight, ?Ioannidis, ?Sudfield
-> Busts: ?M.Jones
5) FA
-> Good: J.Norman, V.Davis, T.Nsekhe, M.Foster
-> Average: Blackmon, R.J-Francois, Carrier, Pierre thomas
-> Below average: Whitner, D.Goldson, ZHood
-> Fails: K.Reyes, Bruton, Toler, Ihenacho, Jeron Johnson, T.Knighton, S.Paea
-> Injured: Galette, C.Culliver


[B]Let's give him 2-3 more years, we're definitely moving in the right direction. We still had a winning/competitive season this year --despite playing more better/winning teams. We just got unlucky all the teams in our division got much better overnight.
[/B]

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

The fact that we were in the hunt with the worst defense and a bunch of no name guys should give us all hope

In Scot we trust?
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1161099]How many did we win this year and last year? How about the previous 20+ years? Scot is one of the best current GM's, you want 20 years of shit go get another one.[/QUOTE]



To answer your question - 9 and 8. That is very on par with exactly what this team has done over the past 20 years. 9 times we won 8-10 games. 9 times, not 3. Again, the whole "the culture around here has changed" is really nice, and really bullshit.
The culture around here is what we saw last night. Shit.
You think our coaching staff is championship caliber? I don't.
Our defense certainly isn't.
Our offense is great, except in big moments or inside the redzone.
Our kicker sucks.
What exactly are you seeing that Im not?
Do not just throw out names like Crowder, Scherff, etc. Every team ever has a few nice pieces out of 53.
I know I know next year right? Or is it 3 years again? Give Scot 5 years?
When this team becomes a legit contender to win it all than I will praise the "culture " round here.
That was a poor excuse for a team last night. Nothing has changed. Not yet.
This season is a microcosm of the last 20 years actually, mediocre team with the propensity to look really good and really bad, with bad rearing its head more often than good.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

I think if next year we only go 9-7 again at best, then everyone has a right to complain about the culture, the coordinators, the head coach, the GM, etc.. I'm buying in to everyone for 1 more year. Franchise Kirk if we need to again, and improve the D and see where the pieces fall next season.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

The most puzzling thing to me: why can't this team run the ball? That 3rd and half a yard fail on the opening drive set the tone for the entire game. We also failed to convert a 3rd and 2 in the first half. The toughness that McGloughan promised just isn't there yet. Our backs got hit behind the line of scrimmage this year more than any Redskins team in memory. With so many passing weapons, you would think that it would be easier to run the ball. Gruden gets very little out of the running game, and that problem needs to be solved.

In Scot we trust?
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1161140]I think if next year we only go 9-7 again at best, then everyone has a right to complain about the culture, the coordinators, the head coach, the GM, etc.. I'm buying in to everyone for 1 more year. Franchise Kirk if we need to again, and improve the D and see where the pieces fall next season.[/QUOTE]



This team has been winning 6-9 games for two decades. Couple of over achieving seasons sprinkled in there. Couple of straight duds.
I would not be shocked if we win 8 again. That is what this franchise does.
Actually if you look at our opponents 8 wins would be high. Obviously things can change. Injuries happen. Teams fall off their high horses for whatever reason. As it stands now our schedule is brutal.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

Just for the record I am not saying blow it all up. That will just lead to 4 wins instead of 8.
I am simply saying we are mired in mediocrity and it sucks. This staff is not capable of taking us to the next level. Not that it was his only head scratching moment, but when you cannot figure out that taking timeouts into the half is not as good as using them to get closer than 57 yards and get 3 in a game where points are obviously at a premium than you will never ever out coach people enough to win a championship.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[quote=punch it in;1161143]This team has been winning 6-9 games for two decades. Couple of over achieving seasons sprinkled in there. Couple of straight duds.
I would not be shocked if we win 8 again. That is what this franchise does.
Actually if you look at our opponents 8 wins would be high. Obviously things can change. Injuries happen. Teams fall off their high horses for whatever reason. As it stands now our schedule is brutal.[/quote]

Schedules can look easy or hard in the off season, and by the end of the season can be completely different, so I don't even look at that anymore. This team absolutely needs to take the next step next year and the next step is double digit wins. I think if SM hits right on defense, we should get there.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;1161141]The most puzzling thing to me: why can't this team run the ball? That 3rd and half a yard fail on the opening drive set the tone for the entire game. We also failed to convert a 3rd and 2 in the first half. The toughness that McGlouhan promised just isn't there yet. Our backs got hit behind the line of scrimmage this year more than any Redskins team in memory. With so many passing weapons, you would think that it would be easier to run the ball. Gruden gets very little out of the running game, and that problem needs to be solved.[/QUOTE]
Agreed.

I'm not sure what part of it is on the GM, but this offense wasn't tough, especially in the running game.

I'm okay with team effort by the defense. I didn't always felt that way but, as weird as it sounds, I do after the last
Didn't check but I feel like missed tackles number is way down.
3rd down D has to improve but a lot of it is play calling.

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Re: In Scot we trust?
 

Well one thing is for sure, this staff needs to get better with clock management.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1161146]Schedules can look easy or hard in the off season, and by the end of the season can be completely different, so I don't even look at that anymore. This team absolutely needs to take the next step next year and the next step is double digit wins. I think if SM hits right on defense, we should get there.[/QUOTE]



Yup as I said, things can change - injuries happen - teams fall off their high horses.
As of this moment the schedule looks tough, but we will find our way into our sweet spot of 6-9 wins no matter who we play. Lol.

Re: In Scot we trust?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1161148]Well one thing is for sure, this staff needs to get better with clock management.[/quote]

I am still waiting for an explanation as to why they did not use the timeouts at the end of the first half. Did any reporter have the guts to ask ?