Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

I don't know if we have discussed this before but i was wondering who you think is better now and who will better in the future. I really believe that taylor will be one of the greatest safeties to ever play this game. I also like reed too but taylor is my boy. Taylor is faster,bigger and stronger. If he could have reed's vision and mentality he will be the greatest no doubt.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Right now Reed is the top safety in football hands down.

Taylor has all the physical tools to pass Reed, but the big question mark with Taylor is the mental aspect of his game.

If he can develop the mental part of his game, he will be better than Reed, but that's a big if right now.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Reed until further notice. The only reason our pick with Taylor looks good right now is because Winslow has made an even bigger idiot of himself. As soon as Taylor grows up, he will become quite a safety.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

The Edge goes to Reed..for now, but there is no doubt, that Taylor is damed to be the best..........oh yeah by the way you remember in my future post.......I said Winslow was done....and I was Right

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Brian Dawkins? :madani: :vomit-smi

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

If Taylor develops half of Reed's study habits and work ethic he'll be a joy to watch.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Reed is hands down the better player. Reed is currently seeking a new contract and deservedly so. He was the 2004 defensive player of the year and is probably the league's biggest game-changer. Moreover, he's just 26.

Taylor is as physically gifted as Reed, but he's several levels away from Reed. Taylor is a stud, so don't get me wrong, but he's not an Ed Reed....yet.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

reed watches film with lewis for hours and hours... we got no idea what sean does or where he is, and we know he's made bad reads/mistakes thusfar... he's still only been in the league for one year, but he can't surpass reed until either he learns how to study film and not make stupid mistakes or reed gets too old to play the same way...

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Right now, Reed. Until Taylor screws his head on straight; and begins to show the desire that I think Reed has, Reed will be the better player. I think that Taylor has the physcial tools to be the better player, but right now that goes to reed.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

I agree. Just like everyone else says, if Taylor can get his brains to match his physical gifts, he'll be a better player than Reed.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

I think I'd take Brian Dawkins over Reed and Taylor.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Not even close, Reed is different class and I doubt Taylor will ever reach his level.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Dawkins is still one of the better safeties in the league but his better days are behind him. Reed is easily ahead of him right now.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Dawkins is still one of the better safeties in the league but his better days are behind him. Reed is easily ahead of him right now.[/QUOTE]

I think Reed has him beat in athleticism, and Reed has certainly put up the stats recently, and earned the All-Pro nod over Dawkins, so I can see where you're coming from.

I just love Dawkins' heart, he is a serious team leader and plays with a TON of passion. I remember after the Eagles beat the Falcons in the NFC Championship game last year, he was interviewed by Terry Bradshaw (I think it was Bradshaw) and he was like "nobody gave our defense any chance at stopping Mike Vick, and we stopped him. GIMME MY RESPECT RIGHT NOW!"

Just the way he said it was so intense. I love that about him, I think he has the ability to make other players better just through his intensity. The other guys seem to step it up a notch.

Ed Reed yields to Ray Lewis as the team leader. Of course, if Brian Dawkins and Ray Lewis were on the same team, Dawkins would probably yield too, because Lewis is larger than life. So who knows if the situation would be different, but all I know is Dawkins has shown the kind of heart and passion that Joe Gibbs would love to have on his team.

Taylor has miles and miles to go in that department, of course.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Reed is easily the best in the league. ST has a long long way to go to even get close.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]I think Reed has him beat in athleticism, and Reed has certainly put up the stats recently, and earned the All-Pro nod over Dawkins, so I can see where you're coming from.

I just love Dawkins' heart, he is a serious team leader and plays with a TON of passion. I remember after the Eagles beat the Falcons in the NFC Championship game last year, he was interviewed by Terry Bradshaw (I think it was Bradshaw) and he was like "nobody gave our defense any chance at stopping Mike Vick, and we stopped him. GIMME MY RESPECT RIGHT NOW!"

Just the way he said it was so intense. I love that about him, I think he has the ability to make other players better just through his intensity. The other guys seem to step it up a notch.

Ed Reed yields to Ray Lewis as the team leader. Of course, if Brian Dawkins and Ray Lewis were on the same team, Dawkins would probably yield too, because Lewis is larger than life. So who knows if the situation would be different, but all I know is Dawkins has shown the kind of heart and passion that Joe Gibbs would love to have on his team.

Taylor has miles and miles to go in that department, of course.[/QUOTE]

Good assessment of Dawkins, don't get me wrong I have a ton of respect for the guy and he's definitely still a baller. He's the heart and soul of that Philly defense.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Good assessment of Dawkins, don't get me wrong I have a ton of respect for the guy and he's definitely still a baller. He's the heart and soul of that Philly defense.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, you really couldn't go wrong with Dawkins or Reed. I'd like to see Sean Taylor take a look around the league at some of the players who have reached this level of greatness, and start to examine what it is they do to become so great. I want to see Sean Taylor start to see some of these guys as a role model for what he'd like to become.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

It's very troubling that Taylor appears to have a lack of passion for football this early in this pro career. Passion is not a mental thing that can be just developed. You either have it or your on the field collecting checks. You can develop mentally as a player by reviewing more film but the passion for the game is what gets you into the office to review that film. Without this passion, something that I think can't just be turned on--Taylor will not develop his game, mentally or physically. To even begin to compare Taylor with the likes of Reed/Dawkins/Williams is very premature.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

I don't think we can say Taylor doesn't have a passion for the game, on the field he's as intense as anyone I've ever seen. His off the field passion could be questioned though. The guy is an enigma off the field.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

I'd argue Roy Williams could be better than both of them at this point in time, when he's used correctly.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Williams is great in run support but he's not the complete package Reed is and Taylor could become.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

[QUOTE=redrock-skins]Reed until further notice. The only reason our pick with Taylor looks good right now is because Winslow has made an even bigger idiot of himself. As soon as Taylor grows up, he will become quite a safety.[/QUOTE]

The above is LOL funny! Winslow has not only lost two years, but some cash as well!

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

I love watching Reed, Taylor, Williams, and Dawkins play.These guys are the elite group in the NFL. They all play at 100 mph. Right now though its Reed, Dawkins, then Taylor. Those three guys have it all. Williams is very strong in the run game, but pass defense is so-so. Taylor if he can stay focused could pass Reed, but he has to want it. All these guys though are beasts and will be for years to come.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Right now Reed is the top safety in football hands down.

Taylor has all the physical tools to pass Reed, but the big question mark with Taylor is the mental aspect of his game.

If he can develop the mental part of his game, he will be better than Reed, but that's a big if right now.[/QUOTE]


Matty, I don't know if Taylor's mental aspect play into his play on the field, it's his off the field mentality that is the big concern. Taylor's instinct's on the field are as good as you will ever see, but regardless as a rookie he had to go threw some growing pains like any other rookie, I have no doubt that Taylor will be much better than Reid, and challenge Lott as the all time greatest safety to play the game, if he can stay on the field.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Taylor appears to be a player hovering over a thin line between being the greatest safety football has ever seen and being a player that "could have been" the greatest safety football has ever seen. I believe it all depends on how he conducts himself outside of football. Consider Dexter Manley....I thought this guy could have been a HOF guy, but his off field troubles kept him from being the best he could have been in my opinion.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Matty, I don't know if Taylor's mental aspect play into his play on the field, it's his off the field mentality that is the big concern. Taylor's instinct's on the field are as good as you will ever see, but regardless as a rookie he had to go threw some growing pains like any other rookie, I have no doubt that Taylor will be much better than Reid, and challenge Lott as the all time greatest safety to play the game, if he can stay on the field.[/QUOTE]

I just mean his game prep, studying film, etc. When he first came here he wasn't much of a classroom guy, but supposedly as the year went on he became more of a student of the game so hopefully he'll continue with that.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Let me frame this question differently for a moment.


Who is the better WR, Rod Gardner or Art Monk?


Gardner is bigger and faster and probably stronger than Monk ever was or ever hoped to be. So, if I look at the physical skills and imagine in my mind's eye what MIGHT happen if all of those skills were put to use in a 100% efficient and effective manner, then Rod Gardner is clearly the better WR - - and it would not even be close.

Damn! There's that pesky thing about the mental aspects of the game and the concentration and the work and the study and the fire in the gut to beat the guy wearing that other colored jersey. But that's not important because Gardner is bigger and stronger and faster, right?

Now change the names here to Sean Taylor and Ed Reed (or Brian Dawkins for that matter) and you will have your answer.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Argh. I REALLY DO think it would be a good idea to put the disclaimer that JoeCrisp had in his info about Hall of Famers.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Let me frame this question differently for a moment.

Who is the better WR, Rod Gardner or Art Monk?

[/QUOTE]

Sonny or Cher?

Popeye or Bluto?

Captain or Taneal?

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Damn, if we only had Bluto as fullback.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Let me frame this question differently for a moment.


Who is the better WR, Rod Gardner or Art Monk?


Gardner is bigger and faster and probably stronger than Monk ever was or ever hoped to be. So, if I look at the physical skills and imagine in my mind's eye what MIGHT happen if all of those skills were put to use in a 100% efficient and effective manner, then Rod Gardner is clearly the better WR - - and it would not even be close.

Damn! There's that pesky thing about the mental aspects of the game and the concentration and the work and the study and the fire in the gut to beat the guy wearing that other colored jersey. But that's not important because Gardner is bigger and stronger and faster, right?

Now change the names here to Sean Taylor and Ed Reed (or Brian Dawkins for that matter) and you will have your answer.[/QUOTE]

:eek:

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Let me frame this question differently for a moment.

Who is the better WR, Rod Gardner or Art Monk?

Gardner is bigger and faster and probably stronger than Monk ever was or ever hoped to be. So, if I look at the physical skills and imagine in my mind's eye what MIGHT happen if all of those skills were put to use in a 100% efficient and effective manner, then Rod Gardner is clearly the better WR - - and it would not even be close.

Damn! There's that pesky thing about the mental aspects of the game and the concentration and the work and the study and the fire in the gut to beat the guy wearing that other colored jersey. But that's not important because Gardner is bigger and stronger and faster, right?

Now change the names here to Sean Taylor and Ed Reed (or Brian Dawkins for that matter) and you will have your answer.[/QUOTE]

SC,

I'm not sure why you so strongly dislike Taylor. I know he's acted like a bonehead, but I could name about 10 other stellar NFL players who acted like immature, irresponsible, and irreverent kids when they were......kids. I also know a few great former Redskins who I won't name (uh Diesel or unleaded regular?), who showed up drunk with beer in hand to his first meeting with Joe Gibbs, who regularly fell asleep and snored through team meetings, who got drunk and told Supreme Court Justice Sandra D. O'Connor to "loosen up Sandy baby," and who went out drinking the day before games.

Whatever you think of Taylor's off-the-field antics, his on-field presence is amazing. Last season, Taylor started 3 fewer games than our number one cornerback Shawn Springs and he still managed to have two more passes defensed (with 9). In 13 starts he had 6 turnovers (which projects into roughly 8 turnovers a season). If he starts all 16 games this season, with one season of experience under his belt, don't be surprised if he gets 10+ turnovers and 110+ tackles - that's a game-changer. Gregg Williams, who knows a thing or two about defensive players, has publicly said Taylor is the most gifted athelete he's ever coached - and that's praise coming from a guy who should've been livid that Taylor skipped OTAs.

And let me pre-empt your "he choked on 3 plays last season." Again, the guy was a rookie! Rookie DBs are supposed to choke on far more plays than that. I saw Taylor make five great plays for every one bad play.

Saying that Taylor is to Reed what Gardner is to Monk is crazy-speak. I don't there's a single defensive coordinator on the league who wouldn't give their left leg for Taylor. Do you really think Taylor will be cut from this team in two seasons? If so, I'd love to take a hit from your bong because mine must be broken. J/K SC.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Some would even give their 3rd leg...

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Ramseyfan:


I have said it before - let me say it again. I do NOT hate Sean Taylor even a little bit.

Someone asked - presumably seriously - if he was better than Ed Reed - who is a bonafide All-Pro and someone who has been a defensive leader for a team that has been a Super Bowl Champ. Given a couple more seasons on the level he has been on, Ed Reed is a serious candidate for the Hall of Fame.

Now we have Sean Taylor whose career thusfar on the field allows you to compare his "passes defensed" stats with those of Shawn Springs. Pardon me while I yawn for a moment. And that makes my point completely.

Sean Taylor has prodigious physical talent to play NFL football. So far he has had ONE season that was interesting because of his big hits and "passes defensed" and disappointing because of his game-losing plays. But it was ONE season on a LOSING team and somehow that leads some folks to pose serious questions about if he is better than Ed Reed - - or even Brian Dawkins who is not as good as Ed Reed but as of June 2005 is better than Sean Taylor. That's where I get off the train. Sorry. Maybe Taylor will be better than both of those guys some day, but that day is way into the future and that day is not guaranteed to be with the Washington Redskins. So I prefer not to fantasize about them.

I do NOT hate Sean Taylor but I am not going to say he is a great football player until he shows greatness on the field. And by the way, defensing more passes than Shawn Springs is not a measure of greatness...

The analogy to Monk and Gardner is perfectly appropriate. Monk excelled on the field for a long time and won championships. Gardner is a physical specimen who would put Monk to shame in a combine workout setting and who makes some highlight reel catches. Now, which one is the better NFL football player?

No one here would seriously make that comparison - maybe because it demeans Art Monk who was a Redskin. Well, even though Ed Reed is not a Redskin, it is inappropriate at the moment to compare him and his acheivements to Sean Taylor and Taylor's achievements. The analogy holds water...

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Ramseyfan:

I have said it before - let me say it again. I do NOT hate Sean Taylor even a little bit.

Someone asked - presumably seriously - if he was better than Ed Reed - who is a bonafide All-Pro and someone who has been a defensive leader for a team that has been a Super Bowl Champ. Given a couple more seasons on the level he has been on, Ed Reed is a serious candidate for the Hall of Fame.[/QUOTE]

Ed Reed is a stud and is many steps ahead of Taylor, but Reed has been in the league for several years and didn't really "come on" until last season. Taylor, as you point out, has been in for a total of 13 starts.

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]
Now we have Sean Taylor whose career thusfar on the field allows you to compare his "passes defensed" stats with those of Shawn Springs. Pardon me while I yawn for a moment. And that makes my point completely.[/QUOTE]

Okay, so you don't like PDs. Do you feel the same way about FFs and INTs?You coveniently left out my point that he had 6 turnovers. Or do turnovers not excite you?

In his rookie season Reed had:
85 tackles, 1 sack, 5 INTs, 0 FFs, and 7 passes defensed.

In 3 fewer starts (nearly 1/4 of a season) Taylor had:
76 tackles, 1 sack, 4 INTs, 2 FFs, and 9 passes defensed.

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]
The analogy to Monk and Gardner is perfectly appropriate. Monk excelled on the field for a long time and won championships. Gardner is a physical specimen who would put Monk to shame in a combine workout setting and who makes some highlight reel catches. Now, which one is the better NFL football player?

No one here would seriously make that comparison - maybe because it demeans Art Monk who was a Redskin. Well, even though Ed Reed is not a Redskin, it is inappropriate at the moment to compare him and his acheivements to Sean Taylor and Taylor's achievements. The analogy holds water...[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but Gardner HAS NEVER possessed the athletic ability that ST does. Gardner was picked in the middle of the first round whereas ST was a top 5 pick despite the fact that Taylor plays safety and Gardner plays wideout. The comparison between Gardner-Monk and Taylor-Reed is dead wrong.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Right now Reed is the top safety in football hands down.

Taylor has all the physical tools to pass Reed, but the big question mark with Taylor is the mental aspect of his game.

If he can develop the mental part of his game, he will be better than Reed, but that's a big if right now.[/QUOTE]

Reed, if Taylor's HEAD would just match up with his talent he would be the #1 safety.......here's hoping maturing kicks in sooner or later ..........

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Ramseyfan:


I have said it before - let me say it again. I do NOT hate Sean Taylor even a little bit.

Someone asked - presumably seriously - if he was better than Ed Reed - who is a bonafide All-Pro and someone who has been a defensive leader for a team that has been a Super Bowl Champ. Given a couple more seasons on the level he has been on, Ed Reed is a serious candidate for the Hall of Fame.

Now we have Sean Taylor whose career thusfar on the field allows you to compare his "passes defensed" stats with those of Shawn Springs. Pardon me while I yawn for a moment. And that makes my point completely.

Sean Taylor has prodigious physical talent to play NFL football. So far he has had ONE season that was interesting because of his big hits and "passes defensed" and disappointing because of his game-losing plays. But it was ONE season on a LOSING team and somehow that leads some folks to pose serious questions about if he is better than Ed Reed - - or even Brian Dawkins who is not as good as Ed Reed but as of June 2005 is better than Sean Taylor. That's where I get off the train. Sorry. Maybe Taylor will be better than both of those guys some day, but that day is way into the future and that day is not guaranteed to be with the Washington Redskins. So I prefer not to fantasize about them.

I do NOT hate Sean Taylor but I am not going to say he is a great football player until he shows greatness on the field. And by the way, defensing more passes than Shawn Springs is not a measure of greatness...

The analogy to Monk and Gardner is perfectly appropriate. Monk excelled on the field for a long time and won championships. Gardner is a physical specimen who would put Monk to shame in a combine workout setting and who makes some highlight reel catches. Now, which one is the better NFL football player?

No one here would seriously make that comparison - maybe because it demeans Art Monk who was a Redskin. Well, even though Ed Reed is not a Redskin, it is inappropriate at the moment to compare him and his acheivements to Sean Taylor and Taylor's achievements. The analogy holds water...[/QUOTE]

YEAH ART MONK!!! ;)

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

Ramseyfan:

No one - not I nor anyone else here - was trying to compare Gardner's athetic skills with Sean Taylors. Only you brought that into the disucssion so let me say that you have discoverd the obvious. Sean Taylor is far more athletic than Rod Gardner. That and four bucks will get you a latte at Starbucks. The analogy goes like this:

Taylor is a stud; he is a better "athlete" than Ed Reed; Reed has accomplished ten miles more on the field than Taylor has; Reed has shown that he is a great player; Taylor has not yet shown that. THEREFORE, comparing the two of them is premature at best and silly at worst.


Gardner is a stud; he is a better "athlete" than Art Monk; MOnk accomplished ten miles more on the field than Gardner has; Mond showed he was a great player; Garnder has not yet shown that. THEREFORE, comparing the two of them would be ridiculous at this point.


Ed Reed didn't come on until last season? I think there are a whole bunch of offensive coordinators in the NFL who might raise an eyebrow at that statement. Reed has continued to get better throughout his career, but he was hardly a stiff in prior years.


I've said this before too. Greatness in a team or a player is usually self-evident. Great teams point to their records and go on about their business; great players - even when stuck on bad teams demonstrate their greatness without fans having to concoct measures for them where they stand out.

Again let me use an analogy. Barry Sanders was a great player; he played on bad teams most of his career. When people talk about Barry Sanders, they don't have to manufacture yardsicks for him to surpass such as "defensed more passes than Shawn Springs". They don't compare his "rookie stats" with other players. They acknowledge his greatness because of everything he accomplished on the field. Same with Walter Payton playing for a whole bunch of sorry-assed Bears' teams. And Dick Butkis and Tommy Nobis and Sonny Jurgensen and Charlie Taylor and Archie Manning and Lem Barney ...

As long as anyone has to resort to convoluted stats to bolster a player's reputation, the chances are that the player isn't anywhere near great - - yet.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

I can't say I really understood that Barry Sanders analogy but anyway....

There are two parts to the original question; Who is better now, and who will be better in the future? And what I believe Ramseyfan is getting at, is that right now Ed Reed is better. However, when you look at Taylor and Reed in similar points in their careers (after one season) Taylor has the potential to be a much more dominant safety in the long run.

Re: Sean Taylor or Ed Reed
 

I'm actually going to agree with SC on this one on most of his points. I think he's supporting some claims in the way that only he can.