How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

After the President's comments about kneeling during the anthem, i think it's safe to say that the NFL players showed up in force this weekend to kneel during the anthem.

How much longer until the NFL decides to end the national anthem before games? I think we could see it within the next season or two, as players continue to kneel. Hell, the entire Pittsburgh Steelers declined to participate in the anthem. It is only a matter of time until teams refuse to come out on the field while the anthem is being played.

I just want to say that I 100% support any person's rights who live in this country to peaceful protest. That includes kneeling during the anthem. Yes, I am a veteran, and this does not offend me. While i choose to stand obviously, i respect the rights of those who choose to not stand. I do not believe that a country can force patriotism. North Korea comes to mind when i think of a place where "all people must stand for the anthem".

I believe that people are paying to watch football games, not see a display of patriotism or any other kind of theatrics that aren't NFL football. There are plenty of other opportunities for patriotism, etc., that doesn't involve football.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1174781]After the President's comments about kneeling during the anthem, i think it's safe to say that the NFL players showed up in force this weekend to kneel during the anthem.

How much longer until the NFL decides to end the national anthem before games? I think we could see it within the next season or two, as players continue to kneel. Hell, the entire Pittsburgh Steelers declined to participate in the anthem. It is only a matter of time until teams refuse to come out on the field while the anthem is being played.

I just want to say that I 100% support any person's rights who live in this country to peaceful protest. That includes kneeling during the anthem. Yes, I am a veteran, and this does not offend me. While i choose to stand obviously, i respect the rights of those who choose to not stand. I do not believe that a country can force patriotism. North Korea comes to mind when i think of a place where "all people must stand for the anthem".

I believe that people are paying to watch football games, not see a display of patriotism or any other kind of theatrics that aren't NFL football. There are plenty of other opportunities for patriotism, etc., that doesn't involve football.[/quote]
Thank You for your service!I don't give two shits why they came to the game ,you and many,many others sacrificed so those fans can drink and enjoy the game the least they can do is put up with the National Anthem for 5 mins,sit kneel .I don't care ,stand with a fist ....it's your right but at least honor the Men and Women who sacrificed to give that opportunity to you.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=Giantone;1174816]Thank You for your service!I don't give two shits why they came to the game ,you and many,many others sacrificed so those fans can drink and enjoy the game the least they can do is put up with the National Anthem for 5 mins,sit kneel .I don't care ,stand with a fist ....it's your right but at least honer the Men and Women who sacrificed to give that opportunity to you.[/quote]

I agree with at least the first half of Giantone's post and I too thank Solid's service. We have our oldest son on the brink of becoming an officer in the USMC and our youngest headed in that same position after finishing college.

This is such a devisive subject and everyone should be able to express themselves w/o retribution but can we just keep politics out of sports? I've even endured the occasional entertainer in concert that wants to rant about politics and I'm sorry but that is not why I purchased a ticket. Just sing the damn song and pass the freakin' football and leave the commentary for another venue.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1174781]After the President's comments about kneeling during the anthem, i think it's safe to say that the NFL players showed up in force this weekend to kneel during the anthem.

How much longer until the NFL decides to end the national anthem before games? I think we could see it within the next season or two, as players continue to kneel. Hell, the entire Pittsburgh Steelers declined to participate in the anthem. It is only a matter of time until teams refuse to come out on the field while the anthem is being played.

I just want to say that I 100% support any person's rights who live in this country to peaceful protest. That includes kneeling during the anthem. Yes, I am a veteran, and this does not offend me. While i choose to stand obviously, i respect the rights of those who choose to not stand. I do not believe that a country can force patriotism. North Korea comes to mind when i think of a place where "all people must stand for the anthem".

I believe that people are paying to watch football games, not see a display of patriotism or any other kind of theatrics that aren't NFL football. There are plenty of other opportunities for patriotism, etc., that doesn't involve football.[/quote]

It's not going to happen. The Anthem stays, as it should. Maybe it's because of my 22 years in the Army, but whenever I go to a game I still get chills when the flag comes out and thousands of people pay their respects. Why would you get rid of that?

For the record, the entire Steelers team didn't decline to participate in the National Anthem. Villanueva, a former Army Ranger, came out in the tunnel entrance and put his hand over his heart, even as his coach was hoping he wouldn't. I respect that move. Perhaps it wasn't a popular move as far as his team is concerned, but how can you not respect that? I hope he isn't ostracized for it. After all, this is a man who could probably teach all other 52 dudes a little bit about being a team...

I think what happened today needed to happen, with the unity across the league. I think it was a huge statement. I just wish it wasn't at the expense of the respect I believe our Flag deserves. I think that the POTUS crossed a line that he probably had no business even approaching, but it's a slippery slope. I just wish there was a way for these men, who I believe have very good intentions, to show solidarity and make a difference without involving something I think should be almost untouchable.

In my mind patriotism means embracing America for what she is, the good and the bad, while trying to make the good better, and trying to fix the bad. So I will never disagree with the players' intentions, but it would be nice to see some true action. I mean, go ahead and sit in the locker room if you want, kneel, lock arms, raise your fist, whatever...but get on out there and do something about what you think is wrong with America.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

I have wondered for a long time why we play the National Anthem before sports events when we don't play it before movies, Broadway shows, or concerts. Personally I don't think its necessary and wouldn't have a problem if it was discontinued. That said it, it isn't gonna happen.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

If this happened in world cup soccer, people would die. What would Pat Tillman say? He died for this country.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

Getting rid of it wouldn’t solve anything

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1175123]If this happened in world cup soccer, people would die. What would Pat Tillman say? He died for this country.[/quote]

I personally stand for the flag; figuratively and actually.

BUT what makes this country amazing and what so many have died for is the ability for you the individual to have the choice to either stand or sit. that is what makes this country amazing not our National Anthem.

Everyone wants free speech until the speech isn't what they believe in. Its a 2 way street folks.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

I also think people should respect the flag. (Villanueva played at Army with my closest cousin's kid.) The real problem seems to be Goodell.

Let's see... The players can do their show disrespecting the anthem and the flag without a fine, but they can't touch the proscribed uniform or they get a fine. (Even if the cause is a good one.)

Why doesn't Goods..t allow a standardized decal/emblem/... that the players can wear to make their statement that the league won't fine them for? I would imagine that the players aren't really against the country or the flag, but Goodell has actually forced them to this since they can't touch their NFL uniform.

I say it's time for him to get his **** together and allow the players to express themselves on their uniform without their getting fined. This may actually be a way to satisfy all parties. (...except for panties-in-a-bunch Goodell.)

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

I think it stays. It is a custom/tradition just like the flag salute in schools. However, a child cannot be forced to salute the flag or receive punishment/discpline if they do not (religious reasons etc.)
[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette[/URL]

The country is comprised of all types of people with differing backgrounds, religious and political views. Some come from military families, are die hard American patriots who believe you should die for and plege allegiance to your country.

Others are just just peaceful law abiding citizens who reside here, pay taxes but don't agree with some of the values of the country, injustice, history of wars and innocent bloodshed so they refuse to participate in customary traditions. They still honor and obey public officials, law enforcement, those in the military and the service they perform and respect and feel compassion for any and all loss of human life.

An individual should be able to have the right to choose based on their own personal beliefs whether or not to stand, sit, kneel, sing or not participate during such traditions that are included in the place of employment or at school without fear of losing their job or receiving discipline. As long as the individual is peaceful and their behavior is not noisy or disruptive to others around them who choose to participate.

Just remember, at one time people were actually killed for not saluting (Hitler).

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

Terrific. It only took 10 posts on this topic for someone to draw a line to Hitler. :stop:

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=MTK;1175124]Getting rid of it wouldn’t solve anything[/quote]

Important point. And it absolutely should not go away...just like players should be given an opportunity to continue to peacefully protest whether I like it or not

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

I wonder how effective these protests would be in North Korea?

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

My daughter and I actually stood for the national anthem at a restaurant when the 1 o'clock games came on yesterday. We were walking back from the bathroom so we were already standing, not sure we would have stood up from eating if it came on.

I dont know. I dont mean to lessen the protesting players important message but .... i just dont care. Sit, stand, kneel ... what ever. Just as long as it is done while being quiet and respectful. I dont care enough to get outraged.

I went to public school in Montgomery county ... am I the only one who had some kids sit during the pledge of allegiance for social injustice reasons? This isnt anything new.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

Funny how people forget about pat Tillman...much more of a man than what we see today on the field. He fought so cunts could get on all fours, lift his legs and piss like a bitch. But yet the NFL will push this person as a role model for the league.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1175154]Terrific. It only took 10 posts on this topic for someone to draw a line to Hitler. :stop:[/quote]

The line was already drawn when the President just encouraged an employer to fire employees who refuse to align political views with his by standing for the national anthem. How far is the line from the next step of facing criminal charges and being thrown in jail? The line drawn to Hitler is more applicable than you think: Persecute those who don't fall in line.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1175179]Funny how people forget about pat Tillman...much more of a man than what we see today on the field. He fought so cunts could get on all fours, lift his legs and piss like a bitch. But yet the NFL will push this person as a role model for the league.[/quote]



double post

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1175179]Funny how people forget about pat Tillman...much more of a man than what we see today on the field. He fought so cunts could get on all fours, lift his legs and piss like a bitch. But yet the NFL will push this person as a role model for the league.[/quote]



I will ask only once, watch the C word?

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=VirgilTibbs;1175182]The line was already drawn when the President just encouraged an employer to fire employees who refuse to align political views with his by standing for the national anthem. [B]How far is the line from the next step of facing criminal charges and being thrown in jail?[/B] The line drawn to Hitler is more applicable than you think: Persecute those who don't fall in line.[/quote]

It's not close. It's the First Amendment. It's everyone's right to do what ever they want during the National Anthem. The President's insensitive and divisive comments were, in my mind, a patriotic view rather than a political one. It was stupid, but far from Hitleresque. I personally am not a fan of using the National Anthem as a venue to bring attention to social injustice, but it is bringing attention. Hopefully we can soon get past HOW or WHEN people are protesting, and focus on WHY, and start actually doing something about the reasons...

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1175204]It's not close. It's the First Amendment. It's everyone's right to do what ever they want during the National Anthem. The President's insensitive and divisive comments were, in my mind, a patriotic view rather than a political one. It was stupid, but far from Hitleresque. I personally am not a fan of using the National Anthem as a venue to bring attention to social injustice, but it is bringing attention. Hopefully we can soon get past HOW or WHEN people are protesting, and focus on WHY, and start actually doing something about the reasons...[/quote]

CXP, I have respect for you, your service and your opinions, but I think what they are doing is extremely effective, especially given the attention from Trump. You know, if he hadn't said anything, there's a 50/50 shot that whole thing disappears into the wind when players realize it isn't making a difference. Instead, they got the largest polarizing voice in the world to draw attention to it, and now it's apparently spread like a virus. For the time being at least, it's going to get its' 15 minutes of fame. And that's a big win for the crowd.

Me personally, I don't feel like it's effective, but it is a fairly easy and non-violent way for the players to get their voices heard. Are we going to see a difference in the way police are trained as a result of this? Probably not. It's kinda insane to me that the military ROE are much stricter than police, given that police have to interact with communities every day and are on the front lines of gov't interaction with citizens. Right now they're taught to use force if they feel even slightly threatened, which I don't feel is working out given the continuous cycle of high profile incidents that keep drawing protests (whether right or wrong). If the military has to wait until fired upon to engage (with certain exceptions obviously) why does a cop have to wait until he/she feels even mildly threatened?

This problem is also compounded by how easily accessible video taping is nowadays. I'm sure these things still happened in the 80's/90's/etc. but back then it came down to an officer's word, nowadays a cop knows every action of theirs is likely to be scrutinized by their bodycam, or a bystander's camera. While that's a good thing for the public, it also increases the pressure on cops to act responsibly at all times. I personally just think some aren't trained enough to remain calm under pressure, which is admittedly tough to do. But that has to be one of the requirements for the job. In order to uphold the law effectively, they have to be held to a higher standard than a citizen. That includes justifying use of force. It should always be a last resort. Ultimately, I don't think there's an easy answer for this. But there is definitely room for improvement from my perspective.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

Turned on ESPN for Countdown and turned the channel. They're all over this tonight and I'm already tired of it.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

I would respect ESPN's coverage on this more if they didn't fire or suspend anyone who has a conservative opinion on things.
It was 10 guys kneeling last year when it was supposed to be about equality and rights, now that the NFL got its feelings hurt everyone is in on it.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1175209]Turned on ESPN for Countdown and turned the channel. They're all over this tonight and I'm already tired of it.[/quote]

I don't turn on espn anymore for any reason outside of games. Disney is so pissed about the direction of espn...they will be sold within 12 months. They've made their bed.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=Zerohero;1175210]I would respect ESPN's coverage on this more if they didn't fire or suspend anyone who has a conservative opinion on things.
It was 10 guys kneeling last year when it was supposed to be about equality and rights, now that the NFL got its feelings hurt everyone is in on it.[/quote]

Their biased is well documented

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=Giantone;1175185]I will ask only once, watch the C word?[/quote]

:laughing2

Love it

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1175213]:laughing2

Love it[/quote]

I don't,as the brother with four sister's and the father of three girls,it's nothing to laugh at.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=Giantone;1175215]I don't,as the brother with four sister's and the father of three girls,it's nothing to laugh at.[/quote]

I'm sure as a Giants fan you're offended as well.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1175209][B]Turned on ESPN for Countdown[/B] and turned the channel. They're all over this tonight and I'm already tired of it.[/quote]

Well there's your first mistake. Why is their opinion any more relevant than yours, or ours? The only difference is they get paid to share theirs.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

My 2 cents on the whole anthem protest debate: I don't agree at all with even 1 person kneeling for the anthem. But I agree 100% with every single person's right to do it. I just think there are better ways to start a debate. Now, no one even knows what the debate is. Was this week for police brutality? Inequality? Or sticking it to Trump? As an example for Redskins specifically, I think a way better way to do it, would have been for a bunch of guys to lock arms in front of the Washington Monument. The media would still cover the hell out of it, and it wouldn't piss off half the fan base of your team. America is the best country in the world for a person of any race to live in. That's why way more people, both legally and illegally come here, than try to leave. The flag itself represents everything great about America. The problem isn't the flag, its people. We are all sinners and we all mess up. And whether kneeling is protesting the flag or not, that's how it comes across to a lot of people, myself included. America is awesome, but as long as there are people, there will be issues that need to be addressed, in every country, Americans included. And I don't think the media helps at all, on any side of the political spectrum. I get along with black people, hispanic people, asian people, etc. at the same rate I get along with white people, but the media (not all media, but most of mainstream) tries to make it seem like we're way further apart than we are together.

And I also think the narrative is all wrong across the whole spectrum. The biggest issues in the black community are the same as the biggest issues in the white community or any other community, its lack of having great parents, drugs, alcoholism, lack of personal responsibility, lack of access to great jobs, the government in DC helping themselves and not us. And there are more problems I'm missing. The biggest problems are not police brutality or inequality among citizens of this country, or racism.

My 1st solution towards America being even better than it is, is term limits. A fat cat job in DC for life was not what this country was founded on. People were supposed to serve their country for a few years, then go back to their lives and a job in the private sector. Now politicians 1st 2nd and 3rd goal is to get re-elected.

God bless America!

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

I wonder how many of these players voted in the last election? Kapernick couldn't be bothered which IMO makes his protest ring a bit hollow. I suspect less than 10% of these players actually voted so in some ways they are part of the problem not the solution.

How many of these players do anything to advance social justice and equality beyond taking a knee before a football game (which is the team's time not their own time)? I suspect that percentage is even lower than those who voted.

These players are willing to take a knee in protest before a game they are getting paid to attend but I doubt they would take a second of their own time to march in a protest or do something else to advance the cause of social justice and equality. This is 90% for show, 10% protest.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1175219]I'm sure as a Giants fan you're offended as well.[/quote]

............only at your lack of class.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=Giantone;1175215]I don't,as the brother with four sister's and the father of three girls,it's nothing to laugh at.[/quote]

The English love that word. For some reason here it is very taboo. But the English throw the C word around like we say Bitch.

Its just a word, if it offends you, then you give it power if you ignore it, it is meaningless.

I have a mom, a wife, a daughter and a sister because some half wit on the internet said Cunt that is suppose to be offensive to me/them? LOL! Just shows the half wit's lack of vocabulary; nothing more.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

If you guys are going to call folks out on language I have been reading disgusting words on here for a while..the main word being COWBOYS...

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=Giantone;1175238]............only at your lack of class.[/quote]

Silverlining> Could be worth a protest??...I forgot we are in an age where words now hurt.

Giantone, look at this opportunity before you....you could be the flag bearer of a new movement. How will you structure the protest, will you be bending knees, referring to the hurtful word as the "C-word", etc.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

I think teams trying to make it a "unity" thing are unnecessarily complicating things. Let players do what they want -- stand, kneel, sit. But I feel like its my white privilege showing when I say "meh, I just want to watch football and not all this other social PC crap" when that "other social PC crap" is very important to a lot of Americans.

Certainly social injustice is more important than football, but do I value football over injustice to others? An injustice that maybe 5% of me can relate to. I feel like I say I care but in words only. The moment it messes with my football or requires more than passing token words ..... meh, idk.

Complicated stuff. Much too complicated to be rationally discussed in the confines of a football game.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=irish;1175237]I wonder how many of these players voted in the last election? Kapernick couldn't be bothered which IMO makes his protest ring a bit hollow. I suspect less than 10% of these players actually voted so in some ways they are part of the problem not the solution.

How many of these players do anything to advance social justice and equality beyond taking a knee before a football game (which is the team's time not their own time)? I suspect that percentage is even lower than those who voted.

These players are willing to take a knee in protest before a game they are getting paid to attend but I doubt they would take a second of their own time to march in a protest or do something else to advance the cause of social justice and equality. This is 90% for show, 10% protest.[/quote]

Not trying to throw gas on a fire or anything but you also have to figure that many players are not legally allowed to vote from past felony convictions, etc.,. Are there any non-citizen players in the NFL? I'm not saying illegal immigrant, I mean more of a permanent resident / visa, type person.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1175245]Silverlining> Could be worth a protest??...I forgot we are in an age where words now hurt.

Giantone, look at this opportunity before you....you could be the flag bearer of a new movement. How will you structure the protest, will you be bending knees, referring to the hurtful word as the "C-word", etc.[/quote]




.........and you would be looked at as the same as trump ,we all know what the opinion of him is. You two are a class act,you and trump.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=Giantone;1175252].........and you would be looked at as the same as trump ,we all know what the opinion of him is. You two are a class act,you and trump.[/quote]

lol...we are talking football and now Im Trump?


I have a friend whose dad name is "Mike Hunt"...say it. Should we go ahead and just arrest him?

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1175253]lol...we are talking football and now Im Trump?


I have a friend whose dad name is "Mike Hunt"...say it. Should we go ahead and just arrest him?[/quote]

Your spin won't help you.



P.S.

....actually talking about the National Anthem,not football.

Re: How Much Longer until the NFL no longer does the national anthem?
 

Small world, driving behind a guy with a Giants license plate right now.