"Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35051/slow-erosion-of-redskins-fan-base-stems-from-years-of-disappointment]Erosion of Redskins' fan base stems from years of disappointment - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN[/url]


I think this read deserves it's own thread, we as skins fans have talked about this for as long as I've been a member here. Honestly If it wasn't for you guys on here I probably would not be as interested in this team anymore.. You guys are kinda like my AA Meetings if you will... And I am not making fun of anyone on here for using that term.

When will it stop? When will this organization become a winner again? Will it ever? It's been over 25 years of this now. I don't know if I can go another decade of losing like this.

"Redskins fans have been patient for a long time. Every time they're asked to believe, they're ultimately let down. Until the organization delivers in a much bigger way on those promises -- as in winning consistently -- the erosion will continue."

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

Bottomline it starts at the Top with Dan Snyder. He should be held for most of the blame as his tenure as owner. Right below him is the second in Command...for a long time it was Vinny Ceratto....he was a clown period. He wouldn't have and hasn't work in the same capacity for any other organization. Now its Bruce Allen....I must admit I was optimistic at first, but lets look at the fucking facts:

1.Responsible for the Donavan McNabb trade
2.Responsible for the RG3 trade
3.Responsible for the handling of the Cousins contract situation.

All these have been debacles and are fireable at this point.

Fire Bruce Allen, Fire his fucking punchable face NOW

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=Chico23231;1183750]Bottomline it starts at the Top with Dan Snyder. He should be held for most of the blame as his tenure as owner. Right below him is the second in Command...for a long time it was Vinny Ceratto....he was a clown period. He wouldn't have and hasn't work in the same capacity for any other organization. Now its Bruce Allen....I must admit I was optimistic at first, but lets look at the fucking facts:

1.Responsible for the Donavan McNabb trade
2.Responsible for the RG3 trade
3.Responsible for the handling of the Cousins contract situation.

All these have been debacles and are fireable at this point.

Fire Bruce Allen, Fire his fucking punchable face NOW[/quote]



Fedex is empty folks, I went to a WSH V DAL Game where both teams were still very alive and it was empty!

Last weeks game against AZ looked the exact same way.

Something has to change and surely Dan sees this imploding. Fire Bruce and maybe even Jay still because it's time to get a REAL FOOTBALL GUY in there.. I'd call up Bill Parcells and offer the house to be the GM.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

Well, based on the Vinny situation, it'll only take 5-7 years of fan outrage before he finally does something.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=Chico23231;1183750]Bottomline it starts at the Top with Dan Snyder. He should be held for most of the blame as his tenure as owner. Right below him is the second in Command...for a long time it was Vinny Ceratto....he was a clown period. He wouldn't have and hasn't work in the same capacity for any other organization. Now its Bruce Allen....I must admit I was optimistic at first, but lets look at the fucking facts:

1.Responsible for the Donavan McNabb trade
2.Responsible for the RG3 trade
3.Responsible for the handling of the Cousins contract situation.

All these have been debacles and are fireable at this point.

Fire Bruce Allen, Fire his fucking punchable face NOW[/quote]

I agree with your list, and your conclusion.

And if Cousins walks, the stadium will only get emptier. Having a decent qb isn't the solution, but it's part of the problem.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=mooby;1183763]I agree with your list, and your conclusion.

And if Cousins walks, the stadium will only get emptier. Having a decent qb isn't the solution, but it's part of the problem.[/quote]

Depends on who we draft at QB if/when He leaves. Look what RG3 did for this fanbase, it was at the peak that its been in 2 decades.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

What's been the hardest for me are the random glimmers of hope.

I truly thought RG3 would have been the franchise savior and we would have seen him and Morris rushing for 1,000+ yards a piece, winning NFCE titles and dominating the NFL.

We had that one year, then we have the Cousins negotiation fuck-up, the Scot McC fuck-up, injuries and just overall shit luck. I know injuries are part of the game, but I think we could have made some noise this year. Instead, the Eagles are sitting on a potential MVP we get to look at for years, the Cowboys have a nice combo down there (still think Dak sucks without Elliott) and somehow the Giants tank job this year will land them some blue chip player.

Much like every year, I'll watch the last two games (or maybe DVR them and watch later?) and then come draft time I'll be just as pumped as last year. It should be a requirement to cheer for the Redskins as a child because it builds character. :D

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

I'm probably going to get into trouble for saying this, but for the people that keep complaining about the team screwing up Cousins' contract, it would help if Cousins actually wanted to be here. But IMO he doesn't and never did; and it is kinda hard to negotiate with someone who doesn't want to be here.

Anyway, back to the thread. I'm also sick of the bad luck that the team has had recently:

- Snyder finally backs off and stops meddling with the team, but he hires someone that just hasn't been good (Allen).

- Team hires a coach, keeps him around despite bad start, and tries to build continuity. But Jay continues to suck as a coach and continuity is not worth it.

- The team finds a diamond in the rough QB that has become the franchise QB the team needs. But the team was too cheap to sign him to a long term and the QB probably doesn't want to be here.

- The teams moves away from going on a shopping spree in free agency and becomes financially responsible with contracts. But maybe they've become too cheap for their own good.

- The team builds a core of young/veteran players through the draft. But this year they all got effing hurt.


I know the team has mismanaged a few things, but somethings are just fucking bad luck and I'm tired of that.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

I think we could have been a 10 win team if it wasn’t for the ridiculous amount of injuries. If I’m the owner I’m saying what the F are we doing regarding our training and conditioning programs?

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=MTK;1183774]I think we could have been a 10 win team if it wasn’t for the ridiculous amount of injuries. If I’m the owner I’m saying what the F are we doing regarding our training and conditioning programs?[/quote]

Not to mention: what are we doing about growing a pair of fucking testicles.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=MTK;1183774]I think we could have been a 10 win team if it wasn’t for the ridiculous amount of injuries. If I’m the owner I’m saying what the F are we doing regarding our training and conditioning programs?[/quote]

For a while, it seemed that every week we were putting someone on IR.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=MTK;1183774]I think we could have been a 10 win team if it wasn’t for the ridiculous amount of injuries. If I’m the owner I’m saying what the F are we doing regarding our training and conditioning programs?[/quote]

Training and Conditioning is a concern...

Just think no true no 1 WR, Not enough talent at RB, and continuing issues with the LG and Center spot on Oline....may have kept us out.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

I know it was essentially Docston's rookie year, but man, I'm going to start calling him 50/50. SO is who he reminds me of. Makes the spectacular catch and drops some easy ones.

Our defensive issues I pinpoint solely on Allen/Ioniddisissisisis/Foster being out for an extended period of time. Also, at what point do you change from sod to turf/field turf?

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1183780]I know it was essentially Docston's rookie year, but man, I'm going to start calling him 50/50. SO is who he reminds me of. Makes the spectacular catch and drops some easy ones.

Our defensive issues I pinpoint solely on Allen/Ioniddisissisisis/Foster being out for an extended period of time. [B]Also, at what point do you change from sod to turf/field turf?[/B][/quote]
After your rookie sensation qb tears his ACL in a playoff game?

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

Players always prefer grass over turf

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

I had this exact same conversation with my buddy just the other day.

He was telling me that he thinks he's finally done as a fan, as far as just admitting that there is totally no hope as long as Snyder and Allen are around.

I don't think Allen is going anywhere, Snyder isn't either, which probably means the future for us will continue to be bleak.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

I don’t recall the amount of injuries this season all across the NFL. I guess other teams like the 49ers, Giants, TB, Indy, Baltimore, etc. Are suffering from lack of conditioning? Teams don’t practice like they used to (hitting) do to the bargain agreement. Maybe that’s the problem? New concussion rules also take players out for multiple games or season (Nicholson, Spaight a few years ago).

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1183793]I had this exact same conversation with my buddy just the other day.

He was telling me that he thinks he's finally done as a fan, as far as just admitting that there is totally no hope as long as Snyder and Allen are around.

I don't think Allen is going anywhere, Snyder isn't either, which probably means the future for us will continue to be bleak.[/quote]

If your thinking about leaving as a fan..then go. Shit, peace. I’m 100% down with the skins til the end.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1183798]If your thinking about leaving as a fan..then go. Shit, peace. I’m 100% down with the skins til the end.[/QUOTE]


Ditto

I get tired of whiny fans, if you’re not on board then leave, nobody is holding a gun to your head, being a fan is a choice

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1183793]I had this exact same conversation with my buddy just the other day.

[B][COLOR="Red"]He was telling me that he thinks he's finally done as a fan, as far as just admitting that there is totally no hope as long as Snyder and Allen are around.[/COLOR][/B]

I don't think Allen is going anywhere, Snyder isn't either, which probably means the future for us will continue to be bleak.[/quote]

Is reading that difficult? Where do i say, "I am leaving as a fan." "I am done with us." I am talking about someone in the 3rd person. That seemed pretty obvious i thought.

I am pointing out also what is obvious. Allen and Snyder aren't going anywhere. Christ.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

Well it seems Snyder really hasn't been too involved since RG3 and has let the team President run things. These are Allen's guys from Tampa.

If and when the teams starts winning the fans will come back. It's that simple.

As far as the injuries, how do you train for someone rolling up on your leg? Or a concussion? A lot of this is just bad luck.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

I had the opportunity to attend and on-field touch football event this year at FedEx field this year at the end of September. I can honestly say that is the worst field I have ever played on. I fell several times due to poor footing, the grass is non existent its mostly clay and I was bleeding from my knees and my shins at the end of a "scrimmage". I played football in both highschool and college and never experienced that kind of "falling" during walkthroughs, which this basically was. I can't image the toll/damage this would take on fast, high caliber athletes.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=MTK;1183799]Ditto

I get tired of whiny fans, if you’re not on board then leave, nobody is holding a gun to your head, being a fan is a choice[/quote]

I disagree with the artical,yes there might be a bit of truth in it. It's everywhere ,it is going on through out the NFL .Saturation of product,bad product and the hugh cost of the NFL experience for just one game let alone a season has pushed the NFL to the brink of being out of the reach of the common fan.Now add in politics and social activism to a game of entertainment from high priced ,spoiled(criminal)punks and you are set for disaster.Many fans of the Skins I know as well as my own family with Giants seats ,sell them now on stub hub and other place's to help pay for the seats themselves becuase of the cost of them in the first place.
I think things have changed in the NFL and while fans still will watch I do believe that many old time fans are getting tired of the BS going on with the NFL , owners, players ,rule changes ,etc. I agree MTK it's a choice but it's one the NFL seems to not care about whether you make or not.Now as for Redskin fans let them get to a second round playoff game or the NFC champion ship game and those fans will be back in a heartbeat!

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1183801]Is reading that difficult? Where do i say, "I am leaving as a fan." "I am done with us." I am talking about someone in the 3rd person. That seemed pretty obvious i thought.

I am pointing out also what is obvious. Allen and Snyder aren't going anywhere. Christ.[/quote]

Yeah I got that...and mtk was making a general statement. You’re good SS.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=Stacks42;1183803]I had the opportunity to attend and on-field touch football event this year at FedEx field this year at the end of September. I can honestly say that is the worst field I have ever played on. I fell several times due to poor footing, the grass is non existent its mostly clay and I was bleeding from my knees and my shins at the end of a "scrimmage". I played football in both highschool and college and never experienced that kind of "falling" during walkthroughs, which this basically was. I can't image the toll/damage this would take on fast, high caliber athletes.[/quote]

Interesting...thanks for sharing. Certainly sounds like they need to replace the field

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=MTK;1183774]I think we could have been a 10 win team if it wasn’t for the ridiculous amount of injuries. If I’m the owner I’m saying what the F are we doing regarding our training and conditioning programs?[/quote]

I agree. Considering the amount of injuries its amazing to me how competitive this team has been. I also agree that something need to be done with the training and conditioning. After the injury plagued 2016 season the Nationals looked at how much all the injuries cost and it was staggering so they completely revised their training programs and it appeared to pay off. The Skins need to do something.

As for the erosion of the fan base, winning is the ultimate deodorant. If the team starts winning all will be well.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=Chico23231;1183798]If your thinking about leaving as a fan..then go. Shit, peace. I’m 100% down with the skins til the end.[/quote]

we all say "we are about done" and then we never leave.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=irish;1183810]I agree. Considering the amount of injuries its amazing to me how competitive this team has been. [B] I also agree that something need to be done with the training and conditioning. [/B] After the injury plagued 2016 season the Nationals looked at how much all the injuries cost and it was staggering so they completely revised their training programs and it appeared to pay off. The Skins need to do something.

As for the erosion of the fan base, winning is the ultimate deodorant. If the team starts winning all will be well.[/quote]

It seems that we are among the few that think the Redskins injuries are starting to amount to more than bad luck. Who knows why. Watching the last Giant game at Fedex convinced me something wasn't right. For every Giant that limped off the field 3 Redskins did. Are the players underworked or overworked? Too little hitting in practice or too much? Players not warming up properly before games and practices? Training staff not treating injuries, nicks and dings properly?

As for erosions of fans I admit the last couple Sunday's I have listened to the games while working in the garage and only peek at the TV during key downs, instead of dedicating 3 hours to watching the game. Since they got eliminated from the play-off race I stopped getting all worked up during game time.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

Winning brings back the fair weather fans, who cares, don’t need them.

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I don’t agree that Allen’s job is safe. The Cousins thing is on him, if he gets away that’s a huge strike against him. I’ve also heard some reports that Allen may be looking to retire, apparently he recently bought a very expensive home to the tune of $7M.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=MTK;1183823]I don’t agree that Allen’s job is safe. The Cousins thing is on him, if he gets away that’s a huge strike against him. I’ve also heard some reports that Allen may be looking to retire, apparently he recently bought a very expensive home to the tune of $7M.[/quote]

I hope he does retire and they hire Doug as GM

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=Chico23231;1183808]Interesting...thanks for sharing. Certainly sounds like they need to replace the field[/quote]

Nah, we only pay out for things that bring in results, like players. The field is good for another 3-5. Per Dan, all these players need to stop being whiny bitches and suck it up like the men of old.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=MTK;1183823]I don’t agree that Allen’s job is safe. The Cousins thing is on him, if he gets away that’s a huge strike against him. I’ve also heard some reports that Allen may be looking to retire, apparently he recently bought a very expensive home to the tune of $7M.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure everything that has gone bad is on him, since he's in charge.
And agreed, I don't get why people think his job is safe.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;1183830]I'm pretty sure everything that has gone bad is on him, since he's in charge.

And agreed, I don't get why people think his job is safe.[/QUOTE]


Definitely, just saying Cousins would be the cherry on top. Some people think his value is mainly with the new stadium deal, others think that’s overblown.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

A few thoughts on this topic:

- Two decades of losing is enough to erode any fan base.

- Snyder is to blame. Over time, he cannot avoid the blame because he is the ultimate decision maker and nearly every time he has stepped in to make a change he has made the wrong decision. He is a football ignoramus and a poor judge of executive talent.

- Snyder's image is that of an unlikeable person. He has cemented that image by the many disrespectful ways he has treated coaches, players, employees and fans.

- In his mind, Snyder has already abandoned Fedex Field and the Maryland fan base. The stadium shows it and the Maryland fans know it.

- His battles with the D.C. Council and more than one D.C. Mayor over the team nickname has soured his relationship with them to the point where it is unlikely that the team will ever again have a stadium in or near D.C. This is important because D.C. has a more affluent population than ever before and many people who would be happy to take the Metro or a bus to a game but not drive in heavy traffic can't be bothered with the team.

- Snyder is going to move everything to Virginia. We all know it and i wouldn't be surprised if his new stadium is built closer to Richmond than it is to D.C.

- When was the Tampa Bay dynasty? I must have missed it. Get that entire pack of losers out of town now!

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=MTK;1183823]I don’t agree that Allen’s job is safe. The Cousins thing is on him, if he gets away that’s a huge strike against him. I’ve also heard some reports that Allen may be looking to retire, apparently he recently bought a very expensive home to the tune of $7M.[/quote]

A $7M house for Allen? I see he continues to win off the field.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1183813]we all say "we are about done" and then we never leave.[/quote]

For the past 24 years, I've been "done" about 10 times per year.

From 1993 - 2016, we have a record of 161-221-2.

Thats an average record of 6.79 wins and 9.21 losses.

Our average season is ass!!!!

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1183844]A few thoughts on this topic:

- Two decades of losing is enough to erode any fan base.

- Snyder is to blame. Over time, he cannot avoid the blame because he is the ultimate decision maker and nearly every time he has stepped in to make a change he has made the wrong decision. He is a football ignoramus and a poor judge of executive talent.

- Snyder's image is that of an unlikeable person. He has cemented that image by the many disrespectful ways he has treated coaches, players, employees and fans.

- In his mind, Snyder has already abandoned Fedex Field and the Maryland fan base. The stadium shows it and the Maryland fans know it.

- His battles with the D.C. Council and more than one D.C. Mayor over the team nickname has soured his relationship with them to the point where it is unlikely that the team will ever again have a stadium in or near D.C. This is important because D.C. has a more affluent population than ever before and many people who would be happy to take the Metro or a bus to a game but not drive in heavy traffic can't be bothered with the team.

- Snyder is going to move everything to Virginia. We all know it and i wouldn't be surprised if his new stadium is built closer to Richmond than it is to D.C.

- When was the Tampa Bay dynasty? I must have missed it. Get that entire pack of losers out of town now![/quote]

I live in Montgomery County MD and you are right about the MD fan base, its essentially gone especially with younger people. Young people are Ravens fans because they at least have a competitive team to root for.

I can easily see the new stadium in VA.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1183844]A few thoughts on this topic:

- Two decades of losing is enough to erode any fan base.

- Snyder is to blame. Over time, he cannot avoid the blame because he is the ultimate decision maker and nearly every time he has stepped in to make a change he has made the wrong decision. He is a football ignoramus and a poor judge of executive talent.

- Snyder's image is that of an unlikeable person. He has cemented that image by the many disrespectful ways he has treated coaches, players, employees and fans.

- In his mind, Snyder has already abandoned Fedex Field and the Maryland fan base. The stadium shows it and the Maryland fans know it.

- His battles with the D.C. Council and more than one D.C. Mayor over the team nickname has soured his relationship with them to the point where it is unlikely that the team will ever again have a stadium in or near D.C. This is important because D.C. has a more affluent population than ever before and many people who would be happy to take the Metro or a bus to a game but not drive in heavy traffic can't be bothered with the team.

- Snyder is going to move everything to Virginia. We all know it and i wouldn't be surprised if his new stadium is built closer to Richmond than it is to D.C.

- When was the Tampa Bay dynasty? I must have missed it. Get that entire pack of losers out of town now![/quote]



If he moves to Richmond then they might as well be called the "Virginia Redskins" because that is damn near a 3 hour drive.. That would be like Dallas moving to OKC.

I agree with Fedex going to the dump, I will probably never attend a game there again, I'd rather go on the road to see games. That place is sad.

Re: "Erosion of Redskins fans"
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1183830]I'm pretty sure everything that has gone bad is on him, since he's in charge.
And agreed, I don't get why people think his job is safe.[/quote]

Because we had to wait for the clearly-over-his-head Jim Zorn era before Snyder lost faith in him. Gruden isn't anywhere nearly as bad, and we're 6-8 with half a roster of streetwalkers. If we win out Snyder might think this was a decent season given everything that's happened. That equals job security for his main lieutenant.