'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35790/no-doubt-about-it-redskins-need-to-upgrade-at-running-back]'No doubt about it,' Washington Redskins need upgrade at running back - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN[/url]

Good to hear DW acknowledge it's a big issue

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

Doug Williams tells the truth and then we get this coach-speak double-talk from Gruden:

“We have backs in-house that we feel good about,” Gruden said. “We might need to add another piece to come in and compete for that job. We have two or three backs that can be your third-down guy with Byron and obviously Chris. A first- and second-down banger, we have Samaje and Rob Kelley. Maybe another one to compete in that role on first and second down. Maybe an all-purpose guy would be nice. I don’t know. There are a lot of options, but whoever it is, we intend on giving them a great opportunity to compete for a lot of carries.”

'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

Gruden is an idiot. Shouldn’t surprise anyone. Hell who needs running backs this is the Arena L .... oh whoops my bad.


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Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=punch it in;1189863]Gruden is an idiot. Shouldn’t surprise anyone. Hell who needs running backs this is the Arena L .... oh whoops my bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro[/quote]

That's not fair. Publicly he has to support his players until they don't make the roster. Until we actually acquire more talent at RB, he has to keep his players motivated and feeling like he believes in them. Even if he doesn't.

This is a classic case of needing to interpret what's being said. He can't come out and say "yeah you guys are right, Perine fumbles too much and Rob Kelley isn't quick or fast enough." He probably thinks all those things. But until the organization actually decides it's going to move on from those players, like they did with Matt Jones, Gruden can't start shitting on them publicly in the media.

'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1189868]That's not fair. Publicly he has to support his players until they don't make the roster. Until we actually acquire more talent at RB, he has to keep his players motivated and feeling like he believes in them. Even if he doesn't.



This is a classic case of needing to interpret what's being said. He can't come out and say "yeah you guys are right, Perine fumbles too much and Rob Kelley isn't quick or fast enough." He probably thinks all those things. But until the organization actually decides it's going to move on from those players, like they did with Matt Jones, Gruden can't start shitting on them publicly in the media.[/QUOTE]


Exactly, Gruden has a totally different relationship with the players than Williams does. Did we already forget the king of coach speak Joe Gibbs? In public he would never say anything bad about his guys. It’s just part of the job.

And if you read between the lines it’s not hard to see what Gruden is really saying.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=MTK;1189858][url=http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35790/no-doubt-about-it-redskins-need-to-upgrade-at-running-back]'No doubt about it,' Washington Redskins need upgrade at running back - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN[/url]

Good to hear DW acknowledge it's a big issue[/quote]

I really hope we pick a stud in the 1st 2 rounds. I want to see a guy that can rush for 1200+ and has skills to punch the ball in for 6 regularly.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=MTK;1189869]Exactly, Gruden has a totally different relationship with the players than Williams does. Did we already forget the king of coach speak Joe Gibbs? In public he would never say anything bad about his guys. It’s just part of the job.

And if you read between the lines it’s not hard to see what Gruden is really saying.[/quote]

Samaje Perine fights his guts out.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=Schneed10;1189879]Samaje Perine fights his guts out.[/quote]

:laughing-

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

But back to the topic, yeah I really hope they do what it takes to get a good one. I feel like a real good solution would be to trade down from 13 and try to acquire more picks. Like if you slide down from 13 to 22 or something, you might be able to pick up a 3rd rounder in that deal. And then at 22 you'd be in a great spot to draft a talented runner like Guice.

If we stick at 13 I'd rather see an impact defensive lineman or linebacker. But trading back gives you more swings of the bat, and would put us in the spot where RB becomes a solid value play.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

Guice

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

I like the 4 we have now but maybe get a FB that can either run on short yardage or block

'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1189868]That's not fair. Publicly he has to support his players until they don't make the roster. Until we actually acquire more talent at RB, he has to keep his players motivated and feeling like he believes in them. Even if he doesn't.



This is a classic case of needing to interpret what's being said. He can't come out and say "yeah you guys are right, Perine fumbles too much and Rob Kelley isn't quick or fast enough." He probably thinks all those things. But until the organization actually decides it's going to move on from those players, like they did with Matt Jones, Gruden can't start shitting on them publicly in the media.[/QUOTE]



I totally understand that he needs to support the current roster. Honestly i do. I think he is an idiot anyway though so,.....

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1189879]Samaje Perine fights his guts out.[/QUOTE]


Classic Gibbsism

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=Schneed10;1189881]But back to the topic, yeah I really hope they do what it takes to get a good one. I feel like a real good solution would be to trade down from 13 and try to acquire more picks. Like if you slide down from 13 to 22 or something, you might be able to pick up a 3rd rounder in that deal. And then at 22 you'd be in a great spot to draft a talented runner like Guice.

If we stick at 13 I'd rather see an impact defensive lineman or linebacker. But trading back gives you more swings of the bat, and would put us in the spot where RB becomes a solid value play.[/quote]

1) I like the idea of trading down, but couldn't we hope to get a 2nd if we trade even further down in the 1st? Or at least a 3rd and a 4th?
Legit question,I literally have no idea what's realistic or not here...


2) Even after trading down, I think I'd draft defense in the first (DT preferably), because I don't see us having the cap space to fill all our needs through FA.

Smith number is 17M, so we have [B]31M available[/B]. ([url=http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/cap/]Washington Redskins 2018 Salary Cap Table | Spotrac[/url] - overthecap says 48M without Smith contract so it matches)

It appears we're going to try to sign a WR, which I like, so that's at the very least 7M (apparently the number Richardson wants to get), that leaves us, [U]at best, with 24M[/U], enough to sign Brown and/or Breeland and/or Dontari Poe + a few cheaper signings/re-signings.
But [B]not all three of them.[/B]

So, come draft day, we're left with [U]at least one gaping hole[/U] in our defense.

I'd address that first, you can hope to get a good RB in the second round.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

Sidenote, I'm hoping that Cleveland takes Barkley #1 overall, because I do not want him to fall to the Giants. We'd be the odd team out in terms of RB talent if this happens (Cowpukes = Elliott, Iggles = Ayayi, Gmen = Barkley).

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1189895]Sidenote, I'm hoping that Cleveland takes Barkley #1 overall, because I do not want him to fall to the Giants. We'd be the odd team out in terms of RB talent if this happens (Cowpukes = Elliott, Iggles = Ayayi, Gmen = Barkley).[/quote]

I felt the opposite, because if the Giants take Barkley:
1) they miss out on an Eli successor,
2) our defense would face the same challenge from all 3 NFC East opponents which ought to force us to get a run stopper that we need, and wouldn't have divergent threats from within the conference
3) RBs, even elite ones have a far shorter life span then if they trade down and get still get a top OL that sticks for 12-15 years.

Barkley would hurt, but I think it's the best of the options from the Skins perspective.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

Could look at it that way. Or you could look at it like first round QBs whiff at least 50% of the time. Barkley though looks like as sure a thing as you can be.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1189896]I felt the opposite, because if the Giants take Barkley:
1) they miss out on an Eli successor,
2) our defense would face the same challenge from all 3 NFC East opponents which ought to force us to get a run stopper that we need, and wouldn't have divergent threats from within the conference
3) RBs, even elite ones have a far shorter life span then if they trade down and get still get a top OL that sticks for 12-15 years.

Barkley would hurt, but I think it's the best of the options from the Skins perspective.[/quote]
If he is there the Giants take Barkley it's a no brainier but he won't be. Browns will take him and then the Giants will trade down for picks. They have Eli successor in Davis Webb and might take another QB later on.They need to update the O line and bring in 3/4 personnel (LBer's)since they are revamping the Defense.Crimarti is moving to Free Saftey to play along Collins.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=Giantone;1189900]If he is there the Giants take Barkley it's a no brainier but he won't be. Browns will take him and then the Giants will trade down for picks. They have Eli successor in Davis Webb and might take another QB later on.They need to update the O line and bring in 3/4 personnel (LBer's)since they are revamping the Defense.Crimarti is moving to Free Saftey to play along Collins.[/quote]

This is what I DON'T want them to do.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=Schneed10;1189897]Could look at it that way. Or you could look at it like first round QBs whiff at least 50% of the time. Barkley though looks like as sure a thing as you can be.[/quote]

Well I figure our whiff on RG3 was large enough to doom us to Wentz working out, plus carry over to the Giants as well

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1189901]This is what I DON'T want them to do.[/quote]

I do, I like the direction the're going in. Given the right protection and personnel Eli has a good two years left ,Webb is good if you want to get a QB I am fine with that but I would take one later. To me you trade down get Nelson from ND and a top LBer for the new 3/4 defense ,the draft has a bunch of good RB's.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

We can find a back in the later rounds or free agency. It's the most disposable position in the NFL. I'd be more concerned w/ who's blocking. Too many times our backs were getting hit right after the handoff.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1189941]We can find a back in the later rounds or free agency. It's the most disposable position in the NFL. I'd be more concerned w/ who's blocking. Too many times our backs were getting hit right after the handoff.[/quote]

You are right

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=Schneed10;1189881]But back to the topic, yeah I really hope they do what it takes to get a good one. [B]I feel like a real good solution would be to trade down from 13 and try to acquire more picks. Like if you slide down from 13 to 22 or something, you might be able to pick up a 3rd rounder in that deal. [/B] And then at 22 you'd be in a great spot to draft a talented runner like Guice.

If we stick at 13 I'd rather see an impact defensive lineman or linebacker. But trading back gives you more swings of the bat, and would put us in the spot where RB becomes a solid value play.[/quote]

According to Ye Olde Draft Pick Value Chart, moving down from 13 to 22 would be worth a second round pick. As it happens, Buffalo has picks 21 and 22 and if they were to want to move ahead of AZ at 15 to get a QB, then they could trade with the Skins for 13. If that were to occur, then the Skins could probably give up 13 and receive 21 and 53 (second rounder). The value chart points would be exactly the same. If we really wanted to hold up BUF, we could demand an additional pick this year or next year. BTW, BUF would still have a second round pick this year at 55.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1189941]We can find a back in the later rounds or free agency. It's the most disposable position in the NFL. I'd be more concerned w/ who's blocking. Too many times our backs were getting hit right after the handoff.[/quote]

Yeah, it's been discussed so many times but it frustrates me to no end that people consider our O-line a top 5 line (when healthy) and Callahan as the "guru" --- but we cannot seem to run block for years! I saw Alfred Morris chugging through holes the size of Texas with the Dallas O-line -- THAT is how you run block. Our backs often don't have a chance.

We cannot just blame it on our backs and I'd like to know what the plan is to fix it. Doing the same thing again each year is the definition of insanity.

'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

The backs definitely have to take some blame. Kelley has zero vision and he constantly leaves yards on the field.

Perine did a better job as the season went on but he still needs work.

We definitely need to add some legit talent.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1189948]According to Ye Olde Draft Pick Value Chart, moving down from 13 to 22 would be worth a second round pick. As it happens, Buffalo has picks 21 and 22 and if they were to want to move ahead of AZ at 15 to get a QB, then they could trade with the Skins for 13. If that were to occur, then the Skins could probably give up 13 and receive 21 and 53 (second rounder). The value chart points would be exactly the same. If we really wanted to hold up BUF, we could demand an additional pick this year or next year. BTW, BUF would still have a second round pick this year at 55.[/quote]

Thanks I was wondering about what we could get.

I really think we could get good value from a team trying to get a QB: we'd be in position of strength, because they'd NEED to trade up, while we'd be ok staying at 13 and picking a playmaking DL. Good position to negotiate !

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

I keep hearing that you can just plug anyone in the backfield and it should work perfectly. Clearly that's not the case. It takes talent to be a good NFL running back, otherwise just sign an UDFA every year and plug him in. Hell, I'm available. The last great RB we had, we had to trade a HOF corner to get. We keep kicking the can every year on this position and saying this is the year we get a beast in the 6th round. Well, it hasn't happened. Lets get a badass back there.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1189956]I keep hearing that you can just plug anyone in the backfield and it should work perfectly. Clearly that's not the case. It takes talent to be a good NFL running back, otherwise just sign an UDFA every year and plug him in. Hell, I'm available. The last great RB we had, we had to trade a HOF corner to get. We keep kicking the can every year on this position and saying this is the year we get a beast in the 6th round. Well, it hasn't happened. Lets get a badass back there.[/quote]

That works with Brady, he can win with anyone at RB... Other than that NO, look at New Orleans, before Kamara they never had a threat at RB.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

Eagles had two cast offs that they picked up in FA and a trade. Worked well for them cause they have a pretty good line. It probably won't happen again but if there's a guard at #13 and he's BPA then please draft him. You win in the trenches. That's what use to win around here.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1189976]Eagles had two cast offs that they picked up in FA and a trade. Worked well for them cause they have a pretty good line. It probably won't happen again but if there's a guard at #13 and he's BPA then please draft him. You win in the trenches. That's what use to win around here.[/quote]

If Nelson fell to # 13 I'd take him in a heartbeat. Our line would be amazballs with him.

Or if we trade down I wouldn't mind Will Hernandez or Price from OSU.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

Blount and Ajayi are both legit backs and far and away better than Kelley and Perine, come on now

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=Schneed10;1189879]Samaje Perine fights his guts out.[/quote]

lmao.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1189956]I keep hearing that you can just plug anyone in the backfield and it should work perfectly. Clearly that's not the case. It takes talent to be a good NFL running back, otherwise just sign an UDFA every year and plug him in. Hell, I'm available. The last great RB we had, we had to trade a HOF corner to get. We keep kicking the can every year on this position and saying this is the year we get a beast in the 6th round. Well, it hasn't happened. Lets get a badass back there.[/QUOTE]AlfMo- 6th round
Thompson - 4th round

Matt Jones - 3rd

Not that AlfMo was a dominant RB, but he was a good one, better than Matt Jones and picked 3 rounds later. Thompson too was a later pick and is an important piece to the offense. Again, better value than Jones.

So, Matt Jones wasn't a first or second round pick and I think that's your point, and I tend to agree that this year's 2nd pick should probably be RB, but I'm just pointing out that if it's not as elite RB I wouldn't ever take them in the first. I'd even give pause to drafting Barkley at 13 depending on ago eke is on the board and who's willing to trade.

Marshawn Lynch is the only elite RB that has won a Superbowl in 15 years and he had some help at QB. It's a passing league, RBs don't last long and just can't impact a team as much as they used to. It's to me a luxury pick to get that elite RB that you make after you're solid across the board.

But yeah, I'd like to get a better back in the 2nd this year.

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Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1189893]1) I like the idea of trading down, but couldn't we hope to get a 2nd if we trade even further down in the 1st? Or at least a 3rd and a 4th?
Legit question,I literally have no idea what's realistic or not here...


2) Even after trading down, I think I'd draft defense in the first (DT preferably), because I don't see us having the cap space to fill all our needs through FA.

Smith number is 17M, so we have [B]31M available[/B]. ([url=http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/cap/]Washington Redskins 2018 Salary Cap Table | Spotrac[/url] - overthecap says 48M without Smith contract so it matches)

It appears we're going to try to sign a WR, which I like, so that's at the very least 7M (apparently the number Richardson wants to get), that leaves us, [U]at best, with 24M[/U], enough to sign Brown and/or Breeland and/or Dontari Poe + a few cheaper signings/re-signings.
But [B]not all three of them.[/B]

So, come draft day, we're left with [U]at least one gaping hole[/U] in our defense.

I'd address that first, you can hope to get a good RB in the second round.[/quote]

13 to 22 would be a 2nd I'd think.

For reference: [url=http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php]NFL Draft Value Chart: WalterFootball.com[/url]

Edit: I see this has already been covered, but the draft chart is fun.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=MTK;1189980]Blount and Ajayi are both legit backs and far and away better than Kelley and Perine, come on now[/quote]

How dare you come on here and use logic like this?? You can't go around making sense Matty, that is how people get hurt.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=WillH;1189985]AlfMo- 6th round
Thompson - 4th round

Matt Jones - 3rd

Not that AlfMo was a dominant RB, but he was a good one, better than Matt Jones and picked 3 rounds later. Thompson too was a later pick and is an important piece to the offense. Again, better value than Jones.

So, Matt Jones wasn't a first or second round pick and I think that's your point, and I tend to agree that this year's 2nd pick should probably be RB, but I'm just pointing out that if it's not as elite RB I wouldn't ever take them in the first. I'd even give pause to drafting Barkley at 13 depending on ago eke is on the board and who's willing to trade.

Marshawn Lynch is the only elite RB that has won a Superbowl in 15 years and he had some help at QB. It's a passing league, RBs don't last long and just can't impact a team as much as they used to. It's to me a luxury pick to get that elite RB that you make after you're solid across the board.

But yeah, I'd like to get a better back in the 2nd this year.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/quote]


Morris was good as long as RG3 was a threat back there, how many 100 yard games did he have without RG3???

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

Like I said I would look at Demarco for a cheap deal, and then draft a guy in the 3rd or so. If not then I want Guice in the 1st but after a trade down situation.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1190019]Morris was good as long as RG3 was a threat back there, how many 100 yard games did he have without RG3???[/quote]

Morris for some reason is a legend to many skins fans, I liked the guy but he was a product of a great scheme his rookie yr.. After that he never lived up to those numbers again.

Re: 'No doubt about it,' Redskins need to upgrade at running back
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1190020]Like I said I would look at Demarco for a cheap deal, and then draft a guy in the 3rd or so. If not then I want Guice in the 1st but after a trade down situation.[/QUOTE]You think we should give up on Perine? Signing Murray and draft a RB will only push Perine to #4 RB.