3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

I posted an article about the 2014 draft class, which got me looking back at our past drafts, Bold are on our team, Underlined are still active in the NFL, Italics are waived injured (per Wikipedia).

2013 GM Bruce:
2 51 [U]David Amerson[/U] Cornerback NC State
3 85 [B]Jordan Reed[/B] Tight End Florida
4 119 [I]Phillip Thomas[/I] Safety Fresno State
5 154 [B]Chris Thompson[/B] Running Back Florida State
162b Brandon Jenkins Outside Linebacker Florida State
6 191 Bacarri Rambo Safety Georgia
7 228 Jawan Jamison Running Back Rutgers

2014 GM Bruce:
2 47 [U]Trent Murphy[/U] Linebacker Stanford
3 66 [B]Morgan Moses[/B] Offensive tackle Virginia
78 [U]Spencer Long[/U] Offensive guard Nebraska
4 102 [U]Bashaud Breeland[/U] Cornerback Clemson
5 142 [U]Ryan Grant[/U] Wide receiver Tulane
6 186 Lache Seastrunk Running back Baylor
7 217 [I]Ted Bolser[/I] Tight end Indiana
228 Zach Hocker Placekicker Arkansas

2015 GM Scot:
1 5 [B]Brandon Scherff [/B]Offensive tackle Iowa
2 38 [B]Preston Smith[/B] Defensive end Mississippi State
3 95 [U]Matt Jones[/U] Running back Florida
4 105 [B]Jamison Crowder[/B] Wide Receiver Duke
112 [B]Arie Kouandjio[/B] Guard Alabama
5 141 [B]Martrell Spaight[/B] Linebacker Arkansas
6 181 [I]Kyshoen Jarrett[/I] Safety Virginia Tech
182 [U]Tevin Mitchel[/U] Cornerback Arkansas
187 Evan Spencer Wide Receiver Ohio State
7 222 Austin Reiter Center South Florida


Those are really damn good draft results imo. Not great in round 7, but 1 - 5 the FO, both Bruce and Scot, did good jobs of finding NFL quality players.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

Good post, yes I agree the team has drafted pretty damn good since Trent was selected, look at the 1st round guys we have taken since then? Most are good players, the 2nd and 3rd rounds are also pretty solid guys. Overall we can't really complain anymore about the draft selections.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

The entire draft is a crapshoot, rounds 6-7 are the crappies of the crapshoot. I'd love to see some stats about how many 6-7 round players became solid contributors for the team that drafted them.

I have no complaints about this, it's definitely a better way to grade than doing it the day after the draft. I'm getting all wistful about Kyshoen Jarrett though, damn that one hurt. Hope the nerve damage has faded away and there's no long term effects, even though the last I heard it wasn't optimistic.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1190725]I posted an article about the 2014 draft class, which got me looking back at our past drafts, Bold are on our team, Underlined are still active in the NFL, Italics are waived injured (per Wikipedia).

2013 GM Bruce:
2 51 [U]David Amerson[/U] Cornerback NC State
3 85 [B]Jordan Reed[/B] Tight End Florida
4 119 [I]Phillip Thomas[/I] Safety Fresno State
5 154 [B]Chris Thompson[/B] Running Back Florida State
162b Brandon Jenkins Outside Linebacker Florida State
6 191 Bacarri Rambo Safety Georgia
7 228 Jawan Jamison Running Back Rutgers

2014 GM Bruce:
2 47 [U]Trent Murphy[/U] Linebacker Stanford
3 66 [B]Morgan Moses[/B] Offensive tackle Virginia
78 [U]Spencer Long[/U] Offensive guard Nebraska
4 102 [U]Bashaud Breeland[/U] Cornerback Clemson
5 142 [U]Ryan Grant[/U] Wide receiver Tulane
6 186 Lache Seastrunk Running back Baylor
7 217 [I]Ted Bolser[/I] Tight end Indiana
228 Zach Hocker Placekicker Arkansas

2015 GM Scot:
1 5 [B]Brandon Scherff [/B]Offensive tackle Iowa
2 38 [B]Preston Smith[/B] Defensive end Mississippi State
3 95 [U]Matt Jones[/U] Running back Florida
4 105 [B]Jamison Crowder[/B] Wide Receiver Duke
112 [B]Arie Kouandjio[/B] Guard Alabama
5 141 [B]Martrell Spaight[/B] Linebacker Arkansas
6 181 [I]Kyshoen Jarrett[/I] Safety Virginia Tech
182 [U]Tevin Mitchel[/U] Cornerback Arkansas
187 Evan Spencer Wide Receiver Ohio State
7 222 Austin Reiter Center South Florida


Those are really damn good draft results imo. Not great in round 7, but 1 - 5 the FO, both Bruce and Scot, did good jobs of finding NFL quality players.[/quote]

I have to say, I give Bruce Allen a lot of crap, but looking at those stats, that is pretty good drafting.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

Drafts have been noticeably better over past 5 years, and predate Scott. We should be fine if we continue as-is drafting good talent. We seem to be good at the first 5 rounds. Also we seem pretty good at drafting CB/secondary - D.Amerson, Breeland, Fuller. And Montae and F.Moreau seem to be promising.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1190725]I posted an article about the 2014 draft class, which got me looking back at our past drafts, Bold are on our team, Underlined are still active in the NFL, Italics are waived injured (per Wikipedia).

2013 GM Bruce:
2 51 [U]David Amerson[/U] Cornerback NC State
3 85 [B]Jordan Reed[/B] Tight End Florida
4 119 [I]Phillip Thomas[/I] Safety Fresno State
5 154 [B]Chris Thompson[/B] Running Back Florida State
162b Brandon Jenkins Outside Linebacker Florida State
6 191 Bacarri Rambo Safety Georgia
7 228 Jawan Jamison Running Back Rutgers

2014 GM Bruce:
2 47 [U]Trent Murphy[/U] Linebacker Stanford
3 66 [B]Morgan Moses[/B] Offensive tackle Virginia
78 [U]Spencer Long[/U] Offensive guard Nebraska
4 102 [U]Bashaud Breeland[/U] Cornerback Clemson
5 142 [U]Ryan Grant[/U] Wide receiver Tulane
6 186 Lache Seastrunk Running back Baylor
7 217 [I]Ted Bolser[/I] Tight end Indiana
228 Zach Hocker Placekicker Arkansas

2015 GM Scot:
1 5 [B]Brandon Scherff [/B]Offensive tackle Iowa
2 38 [B]Preston Smith[/B] Defensive end Mississippi State
3 95 [U]Matt Jones[/U] Running back Florida
4 105 [B]Jamison Crowder[/B] Wide Receiver Duke
112 [B]Arie Kouandjio[/B] Guard Alabama
5 141 [B]Martrell Spaight[/B] Linebacker Arkansas
6 181 [I]Kyshoen Jarrett[/I] Safety Virginia Tech
182 [U]Tevin Mitchel[/U] Cornerback Arkansas
187 Evan Spencer Wide Receiver Ohio State
7 222 Austin Reiter Center South Florida


Those are really damn good draft results imo. Not great in round 7, but 1 - 5 the FO, both Bruce and Scot, did good jobs of finding NFL quality players.[/quote]

I don't even know how to create a thread, probably a good thing for all of us here, and you open up a research bomb. Nicely played.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

Fantastic post. Bruce has always been in control and been better than anything we’ve had as a de facto GM in decades. I disappointed that we lost fuller (in a trade for the best QB available) and Long (wouldn’t have paid him that money anyways), but the other guys that left, i can live with.

Murphy was our 3rd or 4th OLB. The comp pick we’ll get for him is worth more than his 30% or less snap count plus the salary he would have demanded. The other guys we lost aren’t worth mentioning.

I’m very excited about the next two drafts (even if jay isn’t here next year).

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

Our 8-8 seasons are the result of these mediocre drafts.
Maybe Amerson and Jones are considered a good pick to some because they are in the league for the next 15 minutes but the Redskins cut them before their rookie contracts were up, in my book that’s a bad draft pick.

Trent Murphy was a 47th pick overall but only managed a 3 sack per season average for his career with the Redskins. I don’t care what he does with the Bills, he didn’t have an impact with the Redskins who could’ve had a pro bowl impact pass rusher with their original pick(Laurence). This pick bothers me the most probably because we traded with Dallas.

Scherff is great but also a top 5 pick. I guess I’ll gve BA credit for not drafting a kicker 5th overall.

Out of the 2013 and 2014 drafts, only 3/15 players drafted are going to be on the Redskins roster next year. Those 3 players are great players but But two of those players aren’t going to play 16 games next year.

The 2015 is still a bit up in the air.
If Smith goes out and get 12 sacks, then it was a good draft. He shows flashes at times but also disappears for a few weeks at a time.
Crowder is a Solid pick for a 4th. His returning sucks but he is a shifty slot guy.
Kouandjio looks like he has a lot of value and played pretty well but let’s give him more time to make an impact.
Spaight is a special teamer. Nothing special but not a bad 5th rounder. He is a backup linebacker. I think we would be in trouble if he started.

The draft isn’t all bad and I don’t expect every player to be a star but at the same time we need to draft impact players with the early picks and amerson/Murphy/Smith have not made an impact for the redskins.

Please note* I only care about what players do as a Redskin. If the Redskins cut or don’t make a serious attempt to sign a guy then it was a mediocre pick at best. I think this is where we disagree.

******on a tablet and a bit drunk, please excuse typos and stuff

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

[quote=jamf;1191931]Our 8-8 seasons are the result of these mediocre drafts.
Maybe Amerson and Jones are considered a good pick to some because they are in the league for the next 15 minutes but the Redskins cut them before their rookie contracts were up, in my book that’s a bad draft pick.

Trent Murphy was a 47th pick overall but only managed a 3 sack per season average for his career with the Redskins. I don’t care what he does with the Bills, he didn’t have an impact with the Redskins who could’ve had a pro bowl impact pass rusher with their original pick(Laurence). This pick bothers me the most probably because we traded with Dallas.

Scherff is great but also a top 5 pick. I guess I’ll gve BA credit for not drafting a kicker 5th overall.

Out of the 2013 and 2014 drafts, only 3/15 players drafted are going to be on the Redskins roster next year. Those 3 players are great players but But two of those players aren’t going to play 16 games next year.

The 2015 is still a bit up in the air.
If Smith goes out and get 12 sacks, then it was a good draft. He shows flashes at times but also disappears for a few weeks at a time.
Crowder is a Solid pick for a 4th. His returning sucks but he is a shifty slot guy.
Kouandjio looks like he has a lot of value and played pretty well but let’s give him more time to make an impact.
Spaight is a special teamer. Nothing special but not a bad 5th rounder. He is a backup linebacker. I think we would be in trouble if he started.

The draft isn’t all bad and I don’t expect every player to be a star but at the same time we need to draft impact players with the early picks and amerson/Murphy/Smith have not made an impact for the redskins.

Please note* I only care about what players do as a Redskin. [B]If the Redskins cut or don’t make a serious attempt to sign a guy then it was a mediocre pick at best. I think this is where we disagree. [/B]

******on a tablet and a bit drunk, please excuse typos and stuff[/quote]

This is indeed where we disagree... when it comes to [U]evaluating our drafts[/U].

We can question our FO's decision making when managing players contracts:
Like why on earth [B]wasn't Murphy extended during this season ?[/B] Injured, he would have been glad to get a contract, wouldn't he?
Instead we have to let him walk after only one solid contributing season because he's getting a big contract he deserves...
But that still was a good pick. Not retaining good picks is indeed pretty dumb though.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

Only 3 guys made it to their 2nd contracts w/ the Redskins from 13 and 14. Not good Bruce.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

2015 seems to be Allen's year; 2014 could be considered as a satisfactory year, depending on who you ask I suppose. I know few players drafted in 2014 went to different teams but I don't think it's entirely Allen's fault, teams overpaid for those players except for Breeland. Do you really want us to match other teams' offer for Long and Murphy? John Keim said we kept in touch with those players, which is a sign that we want to bring them back but obviously once the numbers Long and Murphy came up with are out of Redskins' range set based on their value, Redskins FO deemed it better to let them walk and draft replacements or sign FA players who are cheaper.

It is all about how Redskins value players and positions. Take Patriots as example; they traded away Chandler Jones and Jamie Collins, their top 2 LB pass rushers and both are considered as premier players in NFL. Obviously Belichick didn't think it is worth to spend lot of money on those LB so he traded them.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

I'd call it average drafting, personally, because the lack of a superstar outside of Scherff who really should have been one given where drafted. Reed has been a game changer but unfortunately can't stay healthy often enough.

But there are plenty of players here who can contribute and some contribute quite well. These were decent drafts but you have to be honest in recognizing there is no Richard Sherman in the 5th, etc.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

To emphasize my point, there are no All Pros here. Two players have made the Pro Bowl, Scherff and Reed.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

Also 2015 draft might would have appear to be much better if Jarrett didn't get injured?

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

[quote=Schneed10;1191936]To emphasize my point, there are no All Pros here. Two players have made the Pro Bowl, Scherff and Reed.[/quote]

Good point

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

tl;dr It's easier to criticize our own teams drafting, but comparing to other teams, imo, shows that it was pretty damn good.

Here is Seattle's equivalent (I used them based on Schneed's Richard Sherman example)
2013
2 62 SEA Christine Michael RB (current Colts)
3 87 SEA Jordan Hill DT (current IR Lions)
4 123 SEA Chris Harper WR (out of league -OOL))
5 158 SEA Luke Willson TE (current Lions)
5 138 SEA Tharold Simon DB (OOL)
5 137 SEA Jesse Williams DT (OOL)
6 194 SEA Spencer Ware RB (current KC)
7 242 SEA Michael Bowie T (OOL)
7 241 SEA Jared Smith DT (OOL)
7 220 SEA Ryan Seymour G (OOL)

2014

2 64 SEA [B]Justin Britt[/B] T Current SEA
2 45 SEA Paul Richardson WR Current WAS
4 132 SEA Kevin Pierre-Louis LB Current NYJ
4 123 SEA Kevin Norwood WR OOL
4 108 SEA Cassius Marsh DE current SF
5 172 SEA Jimmy Staten DT OOL
6 208 SEA Eric Pinkins DB OOL
6 199 SEA Garrett Scott OL OOL
7 227 SEA Kiero Small RB OOL

2015

2 63 SEA [B]Frank Clark[/B] DE Current SEA
3 69 SEA [B]Tyler Lockett[/B] WR Current SEA
4 134 SEA Mark Glowinski G Current IND
4 130 SEA Terry Poole G OOL
5 170 SEA Tye Smith CB Current TEN
6 214 SEA Kristjan Sokoli DT Current NYG
6 209 SEA Obum Gwacham DE Current NYJ
7 248 SEA Ryan Murphy DB Current NYJ

So their equivalent players on roster for those 3 years are:

3 on roster out of 27 picks (or for Jamf's 2 year note, 1 out of 17 picks for 2013-2014)

Tyler Lockett strikes me as their main standout
13 of 27, or just under 50% are out of the league

All 3 years they traded their first round picks (none of the resulting players are on their team -- Percy Harvin, Jimmy Graham, Kyle Van Noy, Cassius Marsh

Interestingly Paul Richardson was picked 2 spots ahead of Trent Murphy both moved on because the drafting team didn't want to keep them

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

These bad drafts are part of the reason why they have been on the decline.

Seattle built their Super Bowl teams from picks after the second round who became pro bowlers.

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1191940]tl;dr It's easier to criticize our own teams drafting, but comparing to other teams, imo, shows that it was pretty damn good.

Here is Seattle's equivalent (I used them based on Schneed's Richard Sherman example)
2013
2 62 SEA Christine Michael RB (current Colts)
3 87 SEA Jordan Hill DT (current IR Lions)
4 123 SEA Chris Harper WR (out of league -OOL))
5 158 SEA Luke Willson TE (current Lions)
5 138 SEA Tharold Simon DB (OOL)
5 137 SEA Jesse Williams DT (OOL)
6 194 SEA Spencer Ware RB (current KC)
7 242 SEA Michael Bowie T (OOL)
7 241 SEA Jared Smith DT (OOL)
7 220 SEA Ryan Seymour G (OOL)

2014

2 64 SEA [B]Justin Britt[/B] T Current SEA
2 45 SEA Paul Richardson WR Current WAS
4 132 SEA Kevin Pierre-Louis LB Current NYJ
4 123 SEA Kevin Norwood WR OOL
4 108 SEA Cassius Marsh DE current SF
5 172 SEA Jimmy Staten DT OOL
6 208 SEA Eric Pinkins DB OOL
6 199 SEA Garrett Scott OL OOL
7 227 SEA Kiero Small RB OOL

2015

2 63 SEA [B]Frank Clark[/B] DE Current SEA
3 69 SEA [B]Tyler Lockett[/B] WR Current SEA
4 134 SEA Mark Glowinski G Current IND
4 130 SEA Terry Poole G OOL
5 170 SEA Tye Smith CB Current TEN
6 214 SEA Kristjan Sokoli DT Current NYG
6 209 SEA Obum Gwacham DE Current NYJ
7 248 SEA Ryan Murphy DB Current NYJ

So their equivalent players on roster for those 3 years are:

3 on roster out of 27 picks (or for Jamf's 2 year note, 1 out of 17 picks for 2013-2014)

Tyler Lockett strikes me as their main standout
13 of 27, or just under 50% are out of the league

All 3 years they traded their first round picks (none of the resulting players are on their team -- Percy Harvin, Jimmy Graham, Kyle Van Noy, Cassius Marsh

Interestingly Paul Richardson was picked 2 spots ahead of Trent Murphy both moved on because the drafting team didn't want to keep them[/quote]

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

We got nothing out of the Murphy pick and we traded with Dallas and gave them a pro bowl pass rusher. It’s not s good pick any way you spin it.
[quote=FrenchSkin;1191932]This is indeed where we disagree... when it comes to [U]evaluating our drafts[/U].

We can question our FO's decision making when managing players contracts:
Like why on earth [B]wasn't Murphy extended during this season ?[/B] Injured, he would have been glad to get a contract, wouldn't he?
Instead we have to let him walk after only one solid contributing season because he's getting a big contract he deserves...
But that still was a good pick. Not retaining good picks is indeed pretty dumb though.[/quote]

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

[quote=jamf;1191945]These bad drafts are part of the reason why they have been on the decline.

Seattle built their Super Bowl teams from picks after the second round who became pro bowlers.[/quote]

What 3 teams would you list as top drafting teams from 2013-2015?

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

[QUOTE=jamf;1191946]We got nothing out of the Murphy pick and we traded with Dallas and gave them a pro bowl pass rusher. It’s not s good pick any way you spin it.[/QUOTE]Well it is a good pick in the way we picked a good player... the failure to retain him doesn't erase the fact he was a good draft choice. Does it?

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Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

[quote=jamf;1191946]We got nothing out of the Murphy pick and we traded with Dallas and gave them a pro bowl pass rusher. It’s not s good pick any way you spin it.[/quote]

Player A vs Player B career stats:
SUMMARY

G AV Sk Tkl FF
47 13 15.0 61 6
48 24 23.5 87 7

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

A few different sites rankings:
None of these are definitive but to give a general flavor:

[url]https://nypost.com/2017/04/22/studying-5-years-of-nfl-drafts-to-find-best-worst-teams-at-picking/[/url]
They rank us 7 over the past 5 years ( They have the Seahawks at number 5)

[url]https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/nfl-draft-performance-grades-best-drafting-teams-picks-classes-2012-2016[/url]
They have us at number 5, Seahawks at Number 1

[url]https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2017/04/28/which-nfl-teams-have-been-the-best-and-worst-at-drafting/#34977d0d5dcd[/url]
They have us at 16, Seahawks at 2

[url]https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/nfl-draft-teams-picks-draft-records-ranked-2012-present-030117[/url]
They have us at 9, Seahawks at 12.

[URL="https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-teams-five-year-success-by-draft-class"]https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-teams-five-year-success-by-draft-class[/URL]
They rank us 12th, Seahawks 3rd

I guess the point of this is that ranking drafting is a pretty damn subjective task. The Skins FO isn't perfect at it, BUT to say that they can't get anything past the 20th pick like you said at one time is not very realistic understanding of how difficult NFL drafting really is.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1191952]Player A vs Player B career stats:
SUMMARY

G AV Sk Tkl FF
47 13 15.0 61 6
48 24 23.5 87 7[/quote]

You forgot a couple of stats for player B:
Defensive player of the week - 2
Defensive player of the month - 1
Pro bowls - 1
Double digit sack seasons - 1

Player A:
Roid suspensions- 1

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

[QUOTE=jamf;1191964]You forgot a couple of stats for player B:
Defensive player of the week - 2
Defensive player of the month - 1
Pro bowls - 1
Double digit sack seasons - 1

Player A:
Roid suspensions- 1[/QUOTE]We also got Spencer Long in that trade.

You can hate on the FO, it's subjective enough and they aren't an elite team, but they aren't incompetent either.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1191947]What 3 teams would you list as top drafting teams from 2013-2015?[/quote]

Unfortunately I don’t have time to review drafts but I would say any team that has turned their team around the last few years has drafted well.

It’s all about wins.
Redskins win loss record is mediocre just like their drafts.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

[QUOTE=jamf;1191967]Unfortunately I don’t have time to review drafts but I would say any team that has turned their team around the last few years has drafted well.

It’s all about wins.
Redskins win loss record is mediocre just like their drafts.[/QUOTE]That is a false equivalence. There are a lot of factors as to how a team does in the win loss records. The Eagles by all accounts have drafted terribly The Last 5 Years yet they won the Super Bowl. Our drafting has been average to above-average our injuries have been higher, our QB situation / drama has been higher, I would say our coaching has been average, and our win loss record is average or medium. I doubt it's the drafting because you can look at the history and see how the players have panned out and by and large the Redskins drafted players have panned out in the NFL. There are a lot of other factors.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1191948]Well it is a good pick in the way we picked a good player... the failure to retain him doesn't erase the fact he was a good draft choice. Does it?

Envoyé de mon SM-J320FN en utilisant Tapatalk[/quote]
Did the team even attempt to sign him?

The Redskins aren’t going to pay him $7mil per year to backup Smith.

Wasted a 2nd round pick for a guy who maxed out at 9 sacks while on steroids.

Re: 3 year review : 2013-2016 Drafts
 

[QUOTE=jamf;1191969]Did the team even attempt to sign him?

The Redskins aren’t going to pay him $7mil per year to backup Smith.

Wasted a 2nd round pick for a guy who maxed out at 9 sacks while on steroids.[/QUOTE]

I do think I've read they made an offer, but too low too late.

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