Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

Discuss... [url]https://nflspinzone.com/2018/03/31/washington-redskins-bruce-allen-judged-record/amp/[/url]


“Oh, about that record. Since coming to Washington in December 2009, Allen’s record as chief decision-maker is 35-61. Washington’s two most successful years were when McCloughan was the team’s de facto GM in 2015 and 2016. If you include those two years, Allen’s record climbs to 52-75”

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Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

The Skins are moving toward stability as a franchise, and BA has been a part of that. Football is a slow burn sport. You only get 16 games a year to evaluate results. For a backup center that might be ok for a franchise vice president that took over a dysfunctional franchise at an extreme low point it takes SEVERAL iterations which means several seasons per shot.

First you bring a respected but controlling HC and get the meddlesome owner one step away. Next you bring in a troubled GM to split the GM and Head coaching duties. All the while working to improve the quality of drafts and separating the players from a star struck owner.


Bruce Allen didnt inherit a simple task. He had to change the owner's culture. This team and franchise are a lot better now in ways that are not measured as simply as win loss record.

Of course we need to see more wins going forward because at this point the franchise looks much more stable.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

Stability only goes so far Cred. At some point Gruden and Allen have to go if we can't improve beyond league average. There's no room for regression either.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[QUOTE=mooby;1191999]Stability only goes so far Cred. At some point Gruden and Allen have to go if we can't improve beyond league average. There's no room for regression either.[/QUOTE]I agree to a point. I am just pointing out how far the franchise [U]SEEMS [/U] to have come since the 2000s and that they may have turned a corner in how they operate. If they can now show continued progress on the field we as fans might finally see some good playoff years.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

Just listened to the unedited Bruce Allen interview with JP Finley from the owners meetings.

Bruce is so careful with what he says, but there was a short statement about DW and the personnel dept that I hadn't heard anyone else mention.

BA said they were miles ahead of where they had been in background research of the players in the draft.

This could be a veiled shot at McLovin on Cravens and Doctson.

I believe it is legit though. He normally doesn't put any aspect of the organization down but seems to be acknowledging a past weakness under his watch. Rare position for him to take.

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Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

F...! Bruce Allen. He should have been fired years ago.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1191995]The Skins are moving toward stability as a franchise, and BA has been a part of that. Football is a slow burn sport. You only get 16 games a year to evaluate results. For a backup center that might be ok for a franchise vice president that took over a dysfunctional franchise at an extreme low point it takes SEVERAL iterations which means several seasons per shot.

First you bring a respected but controlling HC and get the meddlesome owner one step away. Next you bring in a troubled GM to split the GM and Head coaching duties. All the while working to improve the quality of drafts and separating the players from a star struck owner.


Bruce Allen didnt inherit a simple task. He had to change the owner's culture. This team and franchise are a lot better now in ways that are not measured as simply as win loss record.

Of course we need to see more wins going forward because at this point the franchise looks much more stable.[/quote]

I'm with you - Redskins organization sunk to bottom after the fiasco with Zorn. I am happy to see where this team is going now and of course, this must lead to winning seasons from now on. If we continue to have losing seasons for next few years then I will jump on Fire Allen bandwagon.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[QUOTE=GridIron26;1192007]I'm with you - Redskins organization sunk to bottom after the fiasco with Zorn. I am happy to see where this team is going now and of course, this must lead to winning seasons from now on. If we continue to have losing seasons for next few years then I will jump on Fire Allen bandwagon.[/QUOTE]The cap penalty, RG3 debacle, and Shanhan's complete neglect of the defense from a spending perspective skews any evaluation of Allen as a GM based on record.

There are literally a handful of people who know what everyone's role was through all of those.

Having been through the Vinny years, I love the stability we have now.

If fault is the right word, I fault BA for the Kirk situation but as it played out, I'm totally fine not paying him an AAV of 28 mil.

In one of his interviews at the owners meetings he said their approach to FA was to assign a cash value to all free agents and stick to their guns.

They second part of the strategy is to accumulate compensatory picks.

I LOVE THIS PHILOSOPHY despite my knee jerk, window shopping impulses toward high priced talented players.

The notion that Bruce alone is evaluating talent is silly. The Alex Smith trade is a great example. Jay loved him. DW and the personnel dept loved him, BA went out and got him.

I am for staying the course and reaping the benefits that come from continuity.






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Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

8-8 is what you get with continuity and no front office talent.
The bengals had 15 or so years of continuity with Marvin Lewis with nothing to show for it than mediocrity.

Not being the laughing stock of the league is not good enough.

I’m fine going into the season with Jay but if they put together another single digit win season, I want them to clean house.

It’s been 5 seasons. This is 100% Bruce and Jays team.
No more excuses especially considering how quickly turned it around in 2 seasons.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[QUOTE=jamf;1192017]8-8 is what you get with continuity and no front office talent.
The bengals had 15 or so years of continuity with Marvin Lewis with nothing to show for it than mediocrity.

Not being the laughing stock of the league is not good enough.

I’m fine going into the season with Jay but if they put together another single digit win season, I want them to clean house.

It’s been 5 seasons. This is 100% Bruce and Jays team.
No more excuses especially considering how quickly turned it around in 2 seasons.[/QUOTE]Gruden has 4 seasons. The first was the remnant of Shanahan defensive blindness.
The next 3 he has won a division championship and hovered around .500. I expect good things this season and if we make the playoffs Gruden shouldnt be anywhere near the hot seat. He and Allen seem to have a relationship that works well under Snyder.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1192018]Gruden has 4 seasons. The first was the remnant of Shanahan defensive blindness.
The next 3 he has won a division championship and hovered around .500. I expect good things this season and if we make the playoffs Gruden shouldnt be anywhere near the hot seat. He and Allen seem to have a relationship that works well unde4 Snyder.[/quote]

Yea and the last two seasons, the team suffered injuries analogous to a biblical event.

[url]https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/2017-adjusted-games-lost[/url]

I love the passion, I just don't think a drastic shake up is the answer right now.

Right now, I just want to keep going and see what's on the other side of the hill.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1192018]Gruden has 4 seasons. The first was the remnant of Shanahan defensive blindness.
The next 3 he has won a division championship and hovered around .500. I expect good things this season and if we make the playoffs Gruden shouldnt be anywhere near the hot seat. He and Allen seem to have a relationship that works well under Snyder.[/quote]

This is fair if he corrects the 5th preseason game issues.

This is his team with his players and QB. No more excuses.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

Ultimately Allen will be judged by his record, just like anyone else. But as with most organizations the higher up the ladder you are, the longer your leash tends to be.

Definitely need to start winning on the field and not just off of it.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

Reading a lot of these posts it has become obvious most of the Redskin fans in here have very low expectations.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1192024]Reading a lot of these posts it has become obvious most of the Redskin fans in here have very low expectations.[/quote]

It's due to the years of dysfunction and losing, can't blame anyone for saying or feeling negative things. I believe the team is turning a new leaf and will stay on a positive track but I could also be blind with my skins goggles on. Only time will tell

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

Bruce has a history of poor decisions, especially at the QB position. Poor personnel decisions and clear dysfunction within organization operations all directly affect the W-L Record of the team.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

When Bruce said everyone should be judged by their by their record, he did not mean himself, his front office or ownership. His definition of everyone is not everyone. He meant the disposable employees, not himself.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[quote=Defensewins;1192027]When Bruce said everyone should be judged by their by their record, he did not mean himself, his front office or ownership. His definition of everyone is not everyone. He meant the disposable employees, not himself.[/quote]

Exactly. Basically coaches

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

I think lot of people are underestimating amount of work it takes to build a good team.. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Allen is great GM/President but I think he did good job considering the situation Redskins was in during beginning of Allen's time with Redskins. Let's not forget what DYoung said earlier - the cap penalty, RG3 trade that crippled our future, and Shanahan's terrible job with defense. It is difficult to place entire blame on Allen.

Again, I'm not saying Allen is doing fabulous job, he made few mistakes.. But then no one is perfect.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

The bottom line, is that the organization looks ... organized. You don't see the owner influencing drafts and trades. The coaching staff seems to be able to coach. And the talent evaluating staff seems to be doing a good job of evaluating talent, and the cost for said talent.

People who want to blow it up now or fire BA or whatever other action, seem to forget how far the Skins had fallen. People might turn to Philly as an example of an organization turning it around in 2 years, but Philly didn't sink as low as the Skins of the 2000's. We are talking Cleveland levels of incompetence.

You can look at the Skins, and see an organization now that seems to "get it". I can agree that if we get stuck at the 8-8 level that evaluations should be made, but even at 8-8 year in year out, that's better than 10 years of being 4th in the division.

IF that means my sights are set too low so be it. I simply want the Skins to be competitive every year, and IF they are, then playoff wins and even SB wins can follow. BUT blowing up an organization that finally is moving away from incompetence to competence is simply asking for a retread fo the late 2000's.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

I heard him say this during his interview with JP Findlay, and honestly I thought it was a jab at Cousins. Which I sort of agree, because everyone seems to focus on his passing stats, but his record was okay, not great. I know a couple of times this past season commentators would allude to Cousins saying that he was having his best year, which was all great for him but it wasn't helping the team win games. But whatever.

Honestly, I'm fine with the front office as they are, especially now that we are past the Cousins fiasco. Only thing I blame them is for not cutting their loses and trading Cousins last off season; but it is what it is.

I think now the pressure is on everyone IMO to improve after the last two seasons.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1192035]The bottom line, is that the organization looks ... organized. You don't see the owner influencing drafts and trades. The coaching staff seems to be able to coach. And the talent evaluating staff seems to be doing a good job of evaluating talent, and the cost for said talent.

People who want to blow it up now or fire BA or whatever other action, seem to forget how far the Skins had fallen. People might turn to Philly as an example of an organization turning it around in 2 years, but Philly didn't sink as low as the Skins of the 2000's. We are talking Cleveland levels of incompetence.

You can look at the Skins, and see an organization now that seems to "get it". I can agree that if we get stuck at the 8-8 level that evaluations should be made, but even at 8-8 year in year out, that's better than 10 years of being 4th in the division.

IF that means my sights are set too low so be it. I simply want the Skins to be competitive every year, and IF they are, then playoff wins and even SB wins can follow. BUT blowing up an organization that finally is moving away from incompetence to competence is simply asking for a retread fo the late 2000's.[/quote]

I'm not doubting Allen's ability to organize the organization.

He's also responsible for building the team. Williams and Gruden answer to him.

If he's insinuating that both of them be held accountable for the W-L record but he's exempt because he brings stability, I'm calling BS.

Seahawks and Eagles are both recent examples of teams that went from mediocre to SB wins in under 5 years. Meanwhile here we are 5 years later from the start of Gruden (not of Allen) hoping we take the next step this year.

Are you satisfied with being the Bengals Cred?

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

Bruce Allen blows donkey balls and should be fired. He is a disgrace to the Redskins....

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[quote=mooby;1192040]I'm not doubting Allen's ability to organize the organization.

He's also responsible for building the team. Williams and Gruden answer to him.

If he's insinuating that both of them be held accountable for the W-L record but he's exempt because he brings stability, I'm calling BS.

Seahawks and Eagles are both recent examples of teams that went from mediocre to SB wins in under 5 years. Meanwhile here we are 5 years later from the start of Gruden (not of Allen) hoping we take the next step this year.

Are you satisfied with being the Bengals Cred?[/quote]
I am happier to be the Bengals then the Browns, which is where we were at.

I think the organization is more stable then it ever has been under Snyder, and that's a great thing because I believe that a stable organization is important to long term success.

I will be happier if Gruden shakes off the last bit of struggles he has as a head coach, and we find a way to keep our players healthy. I remember the Oakland game last year. I think if Gruden gets better at early season motivation, and our players stay healthy, we have the talent to see several of those games a year, and for that to become the new expectation.

But I don't ever EVER [B]EVER[/B] want to go back to Cleveland style dysfunction.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

I don't care if Bruce Allen is or isn't an asshole. If we win he can be a complete asshole.
However using Allen's very own words and his "measurable" about being graded I feel Allen falls short:
2013 3-13
2014 4-12

January 2015 Scot McCloughan is hired.

2015 9-7
2016 8-7-1

After 2016 season McCloughan fired

Allen running the team
2017 7-9

The trend is a concern for me.

Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

^ Thing is Allen’s role was the same before McCloughan, during, and now after

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1192049]^ Thing is Allen’s role was the same before McCloughan, during, and now after[/QUOTE]Ditto!

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Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

Last year we were 7-9 due to ridiculous injuries. It was a good year to even get 7

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Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1192051]Last year we were 7-9 due to ridiculous injuries. It was a good year to even get 7

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]Let"s see how this season goes. I think AS is enough of an upgrade - in Gruden's system - to think we should be a strong playoff contender. Yes the draft will help fortify some weaknesses but our team showed resilence and when healthy, the ability to play with any team except maybe Philly.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1192052]Let"s see how this season goes. I think AS is enough of an upgrade - in Gruden's system - to think we should be a strong playoff contender. Yes the draft will help fortify some weaknesses but our team showed resilence and when healthy, the ability to play with any team except maybe Philly.[/quote]

We sucked against the Div, that is my main concern. 1-5 vs the East? Not going to cut it. Hopefully that changes this yr.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1192057]We sucked against the Div, that is my main concern. 1-5 vs the East? Not going to cut it. Hopefully that changes this yr.[/QUOTE]One thing i always wondered about the old qb was if division teams figured him out, or some tells in his play. I know the Giants somehow always had his number.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1192059]One thing i always wondered about the old qb was if division teams figured him out, or some tells in his play. I know the Giants somehow always had his number.[/quote]

I also think that the fact that he didn't want to be here, also affected how he played. He always seem to start out slow every damn season. And the end of the last two seasons were just horrendous. I just think you can't truly measure the team's ability, when the guy playing in the most important position was not 100% into the team.

This is where I think Alex Smith will be a good improvement; he's a proven leader, hungry for a SB, and has playoffs experience.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

I definitely think the equipment man should be fired if we don't make the playoffs next season.

Bruce Allen: "Johnny, you do a great job getting grass and blood stains out of the players' uniforms but we only finished 5-11 this season. As you know, we're all accountable for the team's won-lost record so I'm gonna have to let you go."

Johnny: "I understand Mr. Allen; we're all accountable."

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

As per Loverro:

"During his stint from 2002 to 2009, Cerrato’s record was 52-65.

Bruce Allen’s reign at Redskins Park? A record of 45-66-1."

At least we've had stability...

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

#bringbackvinny

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;1192092]As per Loverro:

"During his stint from 2002 to 2009, Cerrato’s record was 52-65.

Bruce Allen’s reign at Redskins Park? A record of 45-66-1."

At least we've had stability...[/quote]

[url=http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/teams.nsf/histories/redskins]Washington Redskins History[/url]

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;1192092]As per Loverro:

"During his stint from 2002 to 2009, Cerrato’s record was 52-65.

Bruce Allen’s reign at Redskins Park? A record of 45-66-1."

At least we've had stability...[/quote]

This.

Nothing special about Bruce.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

Perhaps one should be judged by the stupid sh*t that they say. That won't work out well for Bruce either. "Winning off the field." "We like Kurt [sic]."

Dumbass.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

[QUOTE=CrazyCanuck;1192092]As per Loverro:

"During his stint from 2002 to 2009, Cerrato’s record was 52-65.

Bruce Allen’s reign at Redskins Park? A record of 45-66-1."

At least we've had stability...[/QUOTE]Take out Gibbs 2nd stint and Vinnie fails even worse. More importantly from 2002-2009 the team dysfunction grew deeper and deeper. Under Allen you can see a path out of the darkness.

Re: Bruce Allen Thinks Everyone Should Be Judged By Their Record?? Ok.
 

Not sure if anyone caught Russell on 106.7 this am. Basically he said that Snyder is pretty fed up w/ Allen, and if things don't improve he'll be reassigned to only deal with the new stadium stuff. He mentioned that the constant PR embarrassments are the main issue.. going back to the 2014 press conference, the mess w/ Scot, the Cousins debacle, and most recently the thing that happened w/ the Smith trade, where Williams was made to look like a figure head.