Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

I'll admit I was never 100% a Gruden guy but he's had his upside. I've been less impressed with the way the team seems to be unprepared to play the game, that he seems to be afraid of making adjustments in-game and that he doesn't seem to be progressing as a head coach. I came across this article from early 2014 which seems to have nailed Gruden before he was hired and it only highlighted my concerns.

[url]https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1913816-washington-redskins-shouldnt-hire-jay-gruden?fbclid=IwAR18gNS78BcsidMVQ2g3ekBXOojlpVklbRhy9wSQ9Ew8VXM0qlr2Nue0Xj0[/url]

I am a believer that continuity is more important than making a change for the sake of change. I don't want to see them fire Gruden without at least a commitment in hand from someone arguably better. There just doesn't seem to be a surplus of quality head coaching candidates right now. That said, if this writer could nail Grudens shortcomings 5 years ago and all of them appear to hold true after 5 years on the job, how can we expect improvement in years 6, 7 or 8?

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

Yes. Yes. And Yes.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

Gruden was a good bridge to stability. Now we need to get to the next step. Stability and consistent playoff/SB aspirations. The thing is who do we have in the FO that can find that candidate, and who is the candidate out there right now?

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

Agree, we should be looking to trade up, but not for for the sake of firing.

An up and comer like McVay for instance.

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Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

It all rides on these last 5 games


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Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

Stability is the key in the NFL. I'd say we need to see how he does in the last five games.

We need a REAL GM, not named Bruce Allen. He is terrible and must be replaced at GM. Let the new GM decide what to do with Jay at the end of the season.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[QUOTE=Warthog;1209667]Stability is the key in the NFL. I'd say we need to see how he does in the last five games.

We need a REAL GM, not named Bruce Allen. He is terrible and must be replaced at GM. Let the new GM decide what to do with Jay at the end of the season.[/QUOTE]I don't get the BA hate here. Since he came and and has settled DS down, we have gotten our cap in solid shape, regardless of what people moan about on here our drafts under him and Doug Williams have been good to above average. Our roster is as deep as it has ever been. His one failing, and its not minor, has been the qb position.

BUT

Gruden is supposed to be a qb guru yet ours have consistently failed in big games, and underperformed at the beginning and end of the season. Gruden could be gone tomorrow and i wouldnt shed a tear, just hope DW, BA and DS have their eyes on the right next coach.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=Warthog;1209667]Stability is the key in the NFL. I'd say we need to see how he does in the last five games.

We need a REAL GM, not named Bruce Allen. He is terrible and must be replaced at GM. Let the new GM decide what to do with Jay at the end of the season.[/quote]

I agree.. You look at what a difference John Dorsey has meant to the Browns. We have to bring in a football minded GM. Bruce Allen hasn't been awful but the further he and Snyder get from the decision making process, the better the team seems to do. The guy just seems to be too concerned about having power rather than making solid football decisions.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1209669]I don't get the BA hate here. Since he came and and has settled DS down, we have gotten our cap in solid shape, regardless of what people moan about on here our drafts under him and Doug Williams have been good to above average. Our roster is as deep as it has ever been. His one failing, and its not minor, has been the qb position.

BUT

Gruden is supposed to be a qb guru yet ours have consistently failed in big games, and underperformed at the beginning and end of the season. Gruden could be gone tomorrow and i wouldnt shed a tear, just hope DW, BA and DS have their eyes on the right next coach.[/quote]
Where’s the talent? The Skins have the worst Receiving Corp in the NFL.
The back end of our defense does not have one player we drafted starting right now this includes our ILBs Brown and Foster.
Dunbar brought in as a WR.

No drafted QBs on the roster.
Our two best running backs (AP and Bibbs) right now weren’t drafted by us.
Doctson experiment has been a complete waste. Couldn’t get a 600yard season from the guy.

Ionnides was the only player to contribute from his draft class (Cravens and Doctson draft class)

Matt Jones... Perine...


They’ve done a solid job building the Dline with some young guys that are showing a lot of promise but the Oline had holes and lack of depth since week 1.


We don’t have one, not one MFer at a skill position that is playing well. Not one!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=jamf;1209672]Where’s the talent? The Skins have the worst Receiving Corp in the NFL.
The back end of our defense does not have one player we drafted starting right now this includes our ILBs Brown and Foster.
Dunbar brought in as a WR.

No drafted QBs on the roster.
Our two best running backs (AP and Bibbs) right now weren’t drafted by us.
Doctson experiment has been a complete waste. Couldn’t get a 600yard season from the guy.

Ionnides was the only player to contribute from his draft class (Cravens and Doctson draft class)

Matt Jones... Perine...


They’ve done a solid job building the Dline with some young guys that are showing a lot of promise but the Oline had holes and lack of depth since week 1.


We don’t have one, not one MFer at a skill position that is playing well. Not one!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

And they have VD scheduled to get $6.3 million and Richardson $7.5 million in 2019

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

The problem with this team isn't ownership, or the coaching....the major obstacle with this team is the front office....

....the problem with this team is lack of depth....if you look at the teams Joe Gibbs had in the 1980s those teams were rock solid at every position....the starters on those teams could get hurt and the reserve players would fit right in and play at an elite level...same with New England...remember when Tom Brady went down in 2008 with an ACL and Matt Cassel just stepped in and the Parriots had an 11-5 year... the teams under Gibbs 2, Zorn, Shanahan, and Gruden don't have true talent beyond its starters....consider AP a backup for Guice....do they have many depth players at important positions like this? I know AP was signed after Guice's injury but the team's lack of depth are the main reasons why this team borders on .500 every year.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

We know who Gruden is and it's time to move in another direction. The area that he is most weakest it seems is attention to detail. For example he still doesn't know how to manage time outs and the clock. His playcalling is down right terrible. Where have the bootlegs been all year? I rarely saw any w/ Smith. Or the play action screen game? Why do you have the QB in shotgun all the time on 3rd and 1? If your offense struggles up the tempo, just do something. Do we even have a trick play in the playbook? He doesn't know how to manufacture points. Can he actually make adjustments on the fly?

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1209669][B]I don't get the BA hate here.[/B] Since he came and and has settled DS down, we have gotten our cap in solid shape, regardless of what people moan about on here our drafts under him and Doug Williams have been good to above average. Our roster is as deep as it has ever been. His one failing, and its not minor, has been the qb position.

BUT

Gruden is supposed to be a qb guru yet ours have consistently failed in big games, and underperformed at the beginning and end of the season. Gruden could be gone tomorrow and i wouldnt shed a tear, just hope DW, BA and DS have their eyes on the right next coach.[/quote]

What?? Are you trolling? He has made 4 piss poor decisions in the QB area. That alone should get him fired. Snyder is a successful businessman and NFL owner. He doesn't or shouldn't need a damn babysitter. Besides, when the RG3 mess was going on, and they were giving him special treatment which pissed off half the team, who was right there next to Dan? Bruce was. Bruce wasn't putting a stop to any of that nonsense. He went along right w/ it. And to top it off he totally ruined the most important negotiation the team needed to close. Unforgivable.

Bruce is simply the kind of guy that will do anything to keep his job. He's a brown noser to the owner. Every big company has a guy like Bruce around.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

I think where we'd miss Gruden the most is the draft. He has a lot of input to the process. The board isn't his to own but the organization listens to him, and he breaks ties by occasionally standing on the table for somebody during the draft (Ioannidis).

But it's on the organization to get the right people in place regardless. I think we've seen what Gruden can do - he's OK but he doesn't elevate his talent. And I think he whiffed on the DC hire (Manusky).

I'd give him a chance though to show that he can coach McCoy into a successful performance down the stretch here. If we secure the division and McCoy looks good in the process I'd have to credit Gruden, even if I ultimately feel like I know his ceiling is 10-6. It would be enough to buy one more season.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

Yeah CRed you're off your rocker, bud. Bruce Allen has to go. I wholeheartedly believe the rumblings that Cousins wasn't at all interested in signing with Washington as long as Bruce Allen was still with the team. That was the single most embarrassing misplay of any player/contract situation in the entire NFL over the last five years. It has be be considered a fireable offense.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

Allen's record speaks for itself at this point. If Gruden goes Allen has to go too.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1209669]I don't get the BA hate here. Since he came and and has settled DS down, we have gotten our cap in solid shape, regardless of what people moan about on here our drafts under him and Doug Williams have been good to above average. Our roster is as deep as it has ever been. [B]His one failing, and its not minor, has been the qb position.[/B]

BUT

Gruden is supposed to be a qb guru yet ours have consistently failed in big games, and underperformed at the beginning and end of the season. Gruden could be gone tomorrow and i wouldnt shed a tear, just hope DW, BA and DS have their eyes on the right next coach.[/quote]

I mean the bolded part is kind of like, 'aside from that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?'

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

Id let Gruden stick around, but he needs to bring in a new OC imo. I think the step back has been fairly clear...Of course I like the running mentality, but I think Jay needs to share the blame along with Alex when it comes to the passing attack. There is a dullness with routes and scheme in general.

I wouldn't say a change at HC would be the best move. Bruce Allen needs to go for sure though.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1209686]I mean the bolded part is kind of like, 'aside from that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?'[/quote]

lol Allen has failed repeatedly at trying to fill the QB spot, the Cousins debacle alone is a huge strike against him

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

QB decisions during BA tenure has been absolute garbage. Plus the one he didn't want to draft, didn't want on the roster, the one Danny hated....was the best one we had the last 20 years.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

I'd keep Gruden considering that he hasn't had much to work with and when he does have some talent it gets injured.

The front office is terrible and needs completely replaced. Also the training department needs replaced. This team is constantly injured (the AS injury aside) and seems incapable of staying healthy.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

A big loss for the Skins a few years back is when Vic Fangio picked the Bears over the Skins.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=mredskins;1209692]A big loss for the Skins a few years back is when Vic Fangio picked the Bears over the Skins.[/quote]

Jim Schwartz wouldn't take an interview here...and we passed on Wade.

Your right...these are FO...Bruce results. Coaches don't want to be here because of our front office which has been on Bruce.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=irish;1209691]I'd keep Gruden considering that he hasn't had much to work with and when he does have some talent it gets injured.

The front office is terrible and needs completely replaced. Also the training department needs replaced. This team is constantly injured (the AS injury aside) and seems incapable of staying healthy.[/quote]

Yeah too many torn pectorals and shit like that. Scherff and McKinzy this year. Hell, Orakpo suffered at least one of those back in the day while he was here.

I'd like to see the training staff explain their procedures around flexibility. Something tells me they're just like huh? Flexibility? What that?

Can't just be strong, you have to be pliable or you get soft tissue shit.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=MTK;1209685]Allen's record speaks for itself at this point. If Gruden goes Allen has to go too.[/quote]

I think Allen has a 6.5 win a year average and Gruden 7. Time to can them both.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=Schneed10;1209696]Yeah too many torn pectorals and shit like that. Scherff and McKinzy this year. Hell, Orakpo suffered at least one of those back in the day while he was here.

I'd like to see the training staff explain their procedures around flexibility. Something tells me they're just like huh? Flexibility? What that?

Can't just be strong, you have to be pliable or you get soft tissue shit.[/quote]

Agree. Every team has injuries but for the Skins its non-stop. Something needs to change.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1209697]I think Allen has a 6.5 win a year average and Gruden 7. Time to can them both.[/quote]

It's past time for both of them to go. They have both had their chances and they failed to deliver. If you had a business and those two were your only salesmen, you'd be bankrupt.

I am sick and tired of on-the-field mediocrity but, apparently, Dan Snyder has become quite comfortable with it. Snyder needs to make some bold moves to get better and firing Allen and Gruden is a good start because their NFL careers are the very definition of mediocrity.

I would fire Allen for just the ridiculous Kirk Cousins fiasco and his failure to somehow, some way keep Sean McVay. And, yes, he could have kept McVay by firing Gruden and elevating McVay to HC. Eating two years of Gruden's salary to do it would have been worth it. It's easy for me to imagine the Skins being much better right now if we had signed Cousins and elevated McVay.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

If not Gruden then who?

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=Back2RFK;1209703]If not Gruden then who?[/quote]

That is the age old fan question. The answer is: That's not our problem, as fans. All Snyder has to do is to ask advice of the very best football executives in the NFL and use that as the starting point to find his next GM. Then the new GM can find the right HC.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

Before we make any upgrades to the Head Coaching position, Bruce Allen has to go.
It is time. Bruce Allen was hired on 12/17/2009. In a few days he will have been here 9 years.
The long list of bad decisions made in just this past off-season in trades, free agency and the resigning of veterans on our roster too long to list.
The new GM should have a say in who is head coach.
I have started to be OK with the idea Doug Williams being GM.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=Back2RFK;1209703]If not Gruden then who?[/quote]

I think it has to be someone offensive minded. Not sure if DeFilippo is everything everyone says he is but he's on my short list along with Dan Campbell. DeFilippo is more of a gamble here but has more upside. He did well with Wentz and Foles last year. Has done well with Cousins this year but his stint with the Browns didn't go so well. That said, I think at worst he's an even swap for Gruden, at best he's Sean McVay.

Campbell is someone I've been surprised we haven't heard more from since taking over as interim head coach in Miami a few years back. He is a Parcells guy and players seem to respond to him. He wasn't ready in 2015 but I think having a few years of watching Sean Payton should only help. He's likely not going to be the next McVay but I'd gladly take the next Sean Payton..

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=Defensewins;1209707][B]Before we make any upgrades to the Head Coaching position, Bruce Allen has to go.[/B]It is time. Bruce Allen was hired on 12/17/2009. In a few days he will have been here 9 years.
The long list of bad decisions made in just this past off-season in trades, free agency and the resigning of veterans on our roster too long to list.
The new GM should have a say in who is head coach.
I have started to be OK with the idea Doug Williams being GM.[/quote]

Yup...Im in favor of the GM coming in and looking around, giving Gruden another year just to take inventory.

If it isn't working...then New HC and new QB decisions can be made at the sametime.

In the meantime, build up the running game, add a skilled WR and bring in young guys in the secondary & ILBs.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=MTK;1209688]lol Allen has failed repeatedly at trying to fill the QB spot, the Cousins debacle alone is a huge strike against him[/quote]

How much was the Cousins debacle on Snyder for giving RG3 the keys to the city and forcing Shanny to play him over Kirk? I think Kirk was long gone unless the Redskins paid him way more than anyone else offered.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

Jay and Bruce's jobs are on the line the rest of the season and if they keep BA and fire Jay we will know he's never getting canned due to Dan and his relationship.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1209712]How much was the Cousins debacle on Snyder for giving RG3 the keys to the city and forcing Shanny to play him over Kirk? I think Kirk was long gone unless the Redskins paid him way more than anyone else offered.[/quote]

[URL="Report: Redskins Rejected $19.5M Cousins Deal in 2016"]Kirk was open to doing a deal in 2016 at $19.5M per[/URL]. The Skins balked. That was a mistake. Imagine having him right now for $19.5M?

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1209711]Yup...Im in favor of the GM coming in and looking around, giving Gruden another year just to take inventory.

If it isn't working...then New HC and new QB decisions can be made at the sametime.

In the meantime, build up the running game, add a skilled WR and bring in young guys in the secondary & ILBs.[/quote]

That's about where I'm at as well. I like Gruden, he's been a huge step-up from what we had and I really think he can be a winner in this league. But he can't do it all. He's drafting, developing and coaching. Give him somebody who he trusts to make some picks and let him focus on JUST coaching.

A smart owner would do exactly as you said. Pick a competent GM (easier said than done), let him come in and see what he likes/dislikes and then make the moves he sees necessary, a la Dorsey in Cleveland.

I'm afraid we're going to end up with Doug Williams leading the organization through an over-haul and I just don't have any confidence in him at this point.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=MTK;1209714][URL="Report: Redskins Rejected $19.5M Cousins Deal in 2016"]Kirk was open to doing a deal in 2016 at $19.5M per[/URL]. The Skins balked. That was a mistake. Imagine having him right now for $19.5M?[/quote]

Hindsight is 20/20 but they definitely blew that one. I remember being on board with the first Tag. He had played half a season of good football, no harm no foul. Next year he goes out puts up great stats and i'm of the mind we're going to sign him at a reasonably larger contract due to him proving he's an NFL QB.

Then a second tag? Bruce, what the hell man? What's the explanation?

I'm at peace with the Cousins situation. It happened, it's over, we're moving on. I'm just afraid a lot of folks around here forgot what it's like to go YEARS without a competent QB. I don't wanna go back to that.

My biggest fear is we go into the off-season this year or the next with Bruce still VP, Doug as the GM, no QB and a head-coach vacancy. Who's gonna take that job??

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

If this alone doesn't make you love Doug I don't know what will

[URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/09/27/doug-williams-says-adrian-petersons-redskins-visit-caught-daniel-snyder-bruce-allen-off-guard/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.cbf1e0267ea9"]Doug Williams says Adrian Peterson’s Redskins visit caught Daniel Snyder and Bruce Allen off guard[/URL]

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1209712]How much was the Cousins debacle on Snyder for giving RG3 the keys to the city and forcing Shanny to play him over Kirk? I think Kirk was long gone unless the Redskins paid him way more than anyone else offered.[/quote]

This. And that interference set the qb position back more than anything BA has done.

That said, I'm not going to cry if he leaves, as long as it doesn't bring back DS into the football structure.

Re: Is it time to seriously consider a replacement at HC?
 

[quote=MTK;1209714][URL="Report: Redskins Rejected $19.5M Cousins Deal in 2016"]Kirk was open to doing a deal in 2016 at $19.5M per[/URL]. The Skins balked. That was a mistake. Imagine having him right now for $19.5M?[/quote]

We'd still be losing games to his fumbles and bad decisions. He wasn't the answer either truthfully. In hindsight, we should have gotten a qb from last seasons' top 4.