Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

Figured we could do some more targeted threads to discuss certain units. These things are kind of a pain but ill do my best

LT Charles Leno (31 yrs old, 1st yr of 3/37M)
- 919 snaps ... has taken every single snap on the OL, my man.
- 75.9 PFF grade, 2 penalties, 5 sacks

LG Andrew Norwell (31 yrs old, 1st of 2/10)
- 916 snaps .. my man
- 587. PFF, 5 penalties, 4 sacks

C Tyler Larsen (31 yrs old, 1 yr 1M)
- 535 snaps
- 58.2 PFF, 1 penalty, 3 sacks

C Nick Martin (29 yrs old, ham sandwich)
- 156 snaps
- 42.6 PFF, 3 penalties, 0 sacks

LG Trai Turner (29 yrs old, UFA in '23)
- 527 snaps
- 62.1 PFF, 2 penalties, 2 sacks

LG Wes Schweitzer (29 yrs old, UFA in '23)
- 148 snaps
- 59.8 PFF, 1 penalty, 2 sacks

LT Sam Cosmi (23 yrs old, 2 more years on rookie deal, 1.8 and 2.1 hits)
- 432 snaps
- 77 PFF, 1 penalty, 5 sacks

LT Cornelius Lucas (31 yrs old, 1st yr of 2/6.4)
-523 snaps
- 65.6 PFF, 2 penalties, 4 sacks

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28th in allowed sacks w 37 (Boys #1 w 15)

27th in yards per carry w 4 yds/carry

Last (tied w 5 others) in runs over 40 yds with 0

13th in run yds per game w 125.4 yds/g

----------------

[IMG]https://fansided.com/files/2013/12/Morris.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]https://media0.giphy.com/media/o2bGbXk4Yt8hj7L5Jp/200w.gif?cid=82a1493b0vqe8k0km0eabjyrz44x10xt95y8z3a3dkmqra8b&rid=200w.gif&ct=g[/IMG]

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

Leno B+

Norwell C+

Larsen B

Martin D

Turner C

Schweitzer C

Cosmi C+

Lucas B-

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

It's amazing this team has gone on this run with those stats. Health has had a lot to do with it, and obviously the QB.

Wentz was sacked 23 times in 6 starts.

Heinicke has been sacked 14 times in 7 starts.

Not sure the switch to Heinicke had any affect on the running game, other than maybe they are running it more...?

Either way, we need a Center. I said it prior to the draft - that we need to address the Center position, and can't rely on Roullier coming off that broken leg, and look what happened - two significant lower leg injuries in as many years. That is the most important position on the O-line next to the L Tackle. Maybe he comes back ok, but I don't think you can count on it.

O-line in general - especially the interior and a legit swing Tackle needs to be a priority in the offseason.

Run = C-

Pass - D

Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

Run - A
Pass - D

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

Hope the OL is high on the priority list this offseason

I’d give the OL a C+/B- on the year so far

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

Saadiq Charles is missing.

Carson Wentz has been sacked 23 times
TH has been sacked 14 times

I would grade the OL the following:

B for running game
C- for pass protection

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

Ranking the Oline following [I]maybe their worst game of the seaso[/I]n is tough... But overall I still [I]like the unit's performance on the season.[/I]
No Pro Bowlers but they're getting the job done most of the time.

-Leno, slow AF but getting it done, keep it up old man!
-Norwell, same as above, but slower and fatter
-Larsen, good surprise, I thought we'd be effed when he got to start, but he's been hanging in there way better than expected
-Turner seems to still be a bit banged up but take away that awful game (against the Cowboys?) where he got benched, I think he's having a solid season
-Lucas is decent but we could use an upgrade here

-Schweitzer is a very high quality back up/more than decent starter IMO
-Cosmi is a legit RT starter when healthy
-Saadhiq Charles... I've been tough on him, rightfully so, but he has improved the last times we got to see him, didn't get embarrassed as he used to be


In short, I'd say [I][I]all those guys are legit starters, but none of them is a high quality starter.[/I][/I]
Individually you're [I]not in trouble if any of them starts[/I] for you... as long as you have a couple of [I]high quality guys around them[/I]. But an [I]Oline with only decent starters is an issue[/I] over the long run.

Rather than a complete overall, I'd try to [I]bring back most of those [/I]that can be brought back on the cheap, and find [I]a couple of impact guys[/I] via any means necessary.

Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1331601]Hope the OL is high on the priority list this offseason

I’d give the OL a C+/B- on the year so far[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=MTK;1331601]Hope the OL is high on the priority list this offseason

I’d give the OL a C+/B- on the year so far[/QUOTE]


Gotta be. Oline, QB, LB, CB. I wish I knew what we had in Howell. Not saying play him, I just wish I knew if he was going to amount to anything for my own sanity. We have a D-line and weapons on offense that I would hate to see fade away without a serious run at the very least.

C+ / B- is exactly where id be if i graded the run and pass as a complete package.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=punch it in;1331608]Gotta be. [B]Oline, QB, LB, CB[/B]. I wish I knew what we had in Howell. Not saying play him, I just wish I knew if he was going to amount to anything for my own sanity. We have a D-line and weapons on offense that I would hate to see fade away without a serious run at the very least.

C+ / B- is exactly where id be if i graded the run and pass as a complete package.[/quote]

Agree with the positions, but as for the order of urgency, I'd go QB, LB, OL, CB depth.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1331609]Agree with the positions, but as for the order of urgency, I'd go QB, LB, OL, CB depth.[/quote]

I still feel Howell is our future QB, would love to somehow see what he can do. At this stage is wait till next year. Would hate to waste a high pick on a QB when OL, LB and CB are priorities. If Mac Jones and Purdy can do it, so can Howell.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

they're not good :/ TH has decent pocket awareness to help compensate. Not sure why 58 PFF rated / 27th in the league OL deserves Bs. BR and CS are running over/around a lot of people to even hit that 4.0.

run C(-)
pass D

leno and cosmi have a roster spot, not sure about the rest (just depends on who they can find to replace them).

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=MTK;1331601]Hope the OL is high on the priority list this offseason

I’d give the OL a C+/B- on the year so far[/quote]

Don't hold your breath, a large number of us were convinced going into last offseason that they would be doing something about the LB position, and anything they were going to do was going to be better than having Bostic and Mayo in the starting lineup. That was a lot of false hope. I can see them keeping the same group they have now, bringing back Charles and Larsen and letting Schwietzer(sp?) hit free agency.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=That Guy;1331611]they're not good :/ TH has decent pocket awareness to help compensate. Not sure why 58 PFF rated / 27th in the league OL deserves Bs. BR and CS are running over/around a lot of people to even hit that 4.0.

run C(-)
pass D

leno and cosmi have a roster spot, not sure about the rest (just depends on who they can find to replace them).[/quote]

Agree 100% with everything you say here. :goodjob:

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=That Guy;1331611]they're not good :/ TH has decent pocket awareness to help compensate. Not sure why 58 PFF rated / 27th in the league OL deserves Bs. BR and CS are running over/around a lot of people to even hit that 4.0.

run C(-)
pass D

leno and cosmi have a roster spot, not sure about the rest (just depends on who they can find to replace them).[/quote]

I'd go C+/B- on the run blocking. Agree with the D on pass blocking.

Agree with finding replacements for most of the lineman on the roster. Outside of who will be QB, that is the most important area of focus for 2023.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=MTK;1331601]Hope the OL is high on the priority list this offseason

I’d give the OL a C+/B- on the year so far[/quote]

Yup

Oline is an issue.

Leno and Cosmi are fine imo. Lucas is a good swing tackle.

Roullier is good. But Cosmi and Roullier have not stayed healthy the last couple years.

Norwell and Turner are done. Larson is a backup and injuried again.

My opinion is you need to keep swinging with multiple draft picks this year for the Oline. Move on from Turner, instead of resigning Wes, take a little more money and invest it in a multi year contract with a solid interior Oline at RG.

Charles has been a bust. Chris Paul is a guy who’s gotten no opportunity to play even with the injuries this year which should tell you something.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=Chico23231;1331622]Yup

Oline is an issue.

Leno and Cosmi are fine imo. Lucas is a good swing tackle.

Roullier is good. But Cosmi and Roullier have not stayed healthy the last couple years.

Norwell and Turner are done. Larson is a backup and injuried again.

My opinion is you need to keep swinging with multiple draft picks this year for the Oline. Move on from Turner, instead of resigning Wes, take a little more money and invest it in a multi year contract with a solid interior Oline at RG.

Charles has been a bust. Chris Paul is a guy who’s gotten no opportunity to play even with the injuries this year which should tell you something.[/quote]

I wouldn't give up on Paul yet. Unless you're elite, it's hard to come in from those smaller programs and make an impact up front. I think he will be a good backup next year.

Injuries are so frustrating when it's the same guys. Chase is a proven player and Cosmi has tons of potential. But if you can't ever stay on the field, the team is kind of held hostage. As players, too good to get rid of, but always injured so take up roster spots that could be used on players that don't get as hurt as much for whatever reason.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

I'd keep:

Leno
Cosmi
Chase
Paul

Re-Sign:

Schweitzer (if he is willing to re-sign to a similar contract that he previously did)

Draft (at a minimum):

Center
Tackle

Then bring in some vets at the G position to compete for spot(s).

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

Our 2023 draft picks for anyone curious:

R1 (18)
R2 (49)
R4 (97)
R4 (119)
R5 (153)
R7 (193)
R7 (214)
R7 (235)

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

When you look at the guard position, Wes (3.5) and Turner (3j contracts are up. That’s like 6.5 mill for both cap hit, take that money and invest it in a better player in the interior

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1331625]Our 2023 draft picks for anyone curious:

R1 (18)
R2 (49)
R4 (97)
R4 (119)
R5 (153)
R7 (193)
R7 (214)
R7 (235)[/quote]

Isn’t there a compensatory 3rd rounder.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=Chico23231;1331626]When you look at the guard position, Wes (3.5) and Turner (3j contracts are up. That’s like 6.5 mill for both cap hit, take that money and invest it in a better player in the interior[/quote]

Wes has been a solid player for us. I think he's a very valuable guy. I wouldn't be opposed to signing a higher cost player and keeping him. The cap will be going up again.

Can't go wrong with being stout upfront on either side.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1331627]Isn’t there a compensatory 3rd rounder.[/quote]

I'm not sure if we don't have one or it just hasn't been announced yet, so it's not included. Pulled from:

[url]https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/teams/2023/washington-commanders#:~:text=With%20pick%2020%20in%20the%202023%20NFL%20Draft%2C,contain%20the%20player%20listed%20in%20the%20key%20above[/url].

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

LT Leno gives you another year of acceptable LT play

LG Norwell is okay and under contract for another year

C .. love Roullier but not sure we can count on him

RG .. no body under contract next year, would like to seed Cosmi moved there

RT Lucas under contract next year but Id like to see an upgrade RT so Lucas can slide back to being our swing tackle when someone gets injured.

----------

RT would be my priority, unless we can find a stud LT then move Leno over

C would be considered

We have had success finding servicable affordable IOL in FA .. even servicable Ts in FA can be found

Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;1331611]they're not good :/ TH has decent pocket awareness to help compensate. Not sure why 58 PFF rated / 27th in the league OL deserves Bs. BR and CS are running over/around a lot of people to even hit that 4.0.

run C(-)
pass D

leno and cosmi have a roster spot, not sure about the rest (just depends on who they can find to replace them).[/QUOTE]


My immediate reaction was
Run A
Pass D

I was going to say that the A has as much to do with our backs as the oline. You are right though. It has more to do with our backs.

After more thought
Run C+
Pass D

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1331610][B]I still feel Howell is our future QB, would love to somehow see what he can do[/B]. At this stage is wait till next year. Would hate to waste a high pick on a QB when OL, LB and CB are priorities. If Mac Jones and Purdy can do it, so can Howell.[/quote]

I sure hope you're right. If that's right you can remove Qb from the list. But LB still comes before OL in my view. Oline needs improvement, but we have decent guys in there, add one quality proven vet and spend a couple of mdi to late round pick and this Oline is legit. The LB squad is weak AF. We have 2 decent players and then nobody. We need a playmaker AND some depth. It's the weak link of this D.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1331627]Isn’t there a compensatory 3rd rounder.[/quote]

Yes there is, we'll be getting a compensatory for Scherff at a 3rd round value and then a compensatory for Settle at a 6th round value.

[url]https://overthecap.com/compensatory-picks[/url]

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

After listening to Cooley’s last appearance on Sheehan’s podcast and hearing how much we’re in max protect it makes the OL being an off-season priority even more important for me. We’re basically handcuffed on offense right now especially in the pass game.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

So our picks should be the following, with the exact order approximated because the season isn't over yet. 20th pick would be assuming we'd exit in the first round of the playoffs.

Round 1 - #20
Round 2 - #51
Round 3 - #97 (from Scherff)
Round 4 - #121
Round 5 - #155
Round 6 - #196
Round 6 - #214 (from Settle)
Round 7 - #237

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=MTK;1331883]After listening to Cooley’s last appearance on Sheehan’s podcast and hearing how much we’re in max protect it makes the OL being an off-season priority even more important for me. We’re basically handcuffed on offense right now especially in the pass game.[/quote]

Definitely agree. I'd be good with a T and G in rounds 1 and 2 for sure depending how the board falls.

Could get a good G with the 3rd round compensatory, too.

A dependable T would go a very long way. We could kick Cosmi inside permanently, who could hone the craft and become a very good Guard. Then get another strong young G and that relegates the Norwell / Turner experiment to a depth play.

I'd like to be in the position where we're cutting a guy who the staff would see as 'serviceable' due to numbers.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=Schneed10;1331884]So our picks should be the following, with the exact order approximated because the season isn't over yet. 20th pick would be assuming we'd exit in the first round of the playoffs.

Round 1 - #20
Round 2 - #51
Round 3 - #97 (from Scherff)
Round 4 - #121
Round 5 - #155
Round 6 - #196
Round 6 - #214 (from Settle)
Round 7 - #237[/quote]

Nice, awesome to pick up 2 extra picks, especially the Scherff one since we're losing a 3rd rounder on Wentz.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=Schneed10;1331885]Definitely agree. I'd be good with a T and G in rounds 1 and 2 for sure depending how the board falls.

Could get a good G with the 3rd round compensatory, too.

A dependable T would go a very long way. We could kick Cosmi inside permanently, who could hone the craft and become a very good Guard. Then get another strong young G and that relegates the Norwell / Turner experiment to a depth play.

I'd like to be in the position where we're cutting a guy who the staff would see as 'serviceable' due to numbers.[/quote]

Definitely won't be complaining about any OL draft pick, even if it's in several/multiple rounds.

Just give me a CB and a LB sprinkled in somewhere.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=Schneed10;1331884]So our picks should be the following, with the exact order approximated because the season isn't over yet. 20th pick would be assuming we'd exit in the first round of the playoffs.

Round 1 - #20
Round 2 - #51
Round 3 - #97 (from Scherff)
Round 4 - #121
Round 5 - #155
Round 6 - #196
Round 6 - #214 (from Settle)
Round 7 - #237[/quote]

Yep, that was my thinking 2 OL (T and G) draft according to board. If there is a stud CB or LB rated higher than an OL, get him as long as we get to Olinemen between 1-4.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

OT and 2x OG/C; FA or draft, just please address it.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=That Guy;1331927]OT and 2x OG/C; FA or draft, just please address it.[/quote]

I hope we add 4+ offensive lineman (or re-sign Wes as one of those spots) going into next training camp. 2 tackles, a G, and a C preferably.

Including drafting at least 1 of those 2 tackles.

I'll be happy with any combination of signings and draft picks for the spots.

Leno, Wes, Chase, Cosmi, Draft Pick/FA would be pretty solid. But also hard to depend on Cosmi or Chase to stay healthy, so definitely need viable backups at those 2 positions.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1331929]I hope we add 4+ offensive lineman (or re-sign Wes as one of those spots) going into next training camp. 2 tackles, a G, and a C preferably.

Including drafting at least 1 of those 2 tackles.

I'll be happy with any combination of signings and draft picks for the spots.

Leno, Wes, Chase, Cosmi, Draft Pick/FA would be pretty solid. But also hard to depend on Cosmi or Chase to stay healthy, so definitely need viable backups at those 2 positions.[/quote]

Don’t forget Chris Paul, he looks promising

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1331930]Don’t forget Chris Paul, he looks promising[/quote]

I do like Paul as a backup option next year. I'm assuming Turner and Norwell won't be back next year, so there could definitely still be a spot for him, especially if he's cross-training at C too. We need better competition and depth at o-line, so I think we need to bring in quite a few guys. It's better to have a tough decision on who to cut than have to keep a guy(s) who you're not really confident in.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

Agree with the sentiment on CB too. We'll need a long term replacement for Fuller, he's getting older and next year is his last season with us under his current contract.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1331931]I do like Paul as a backup option next year. I'm [B]assuming Turner and Norwell won't be back next year[/B], so there could definitely still be a spot for him, especially if he's cross-training at C too. We need better competition and depth at o-line, so I think we need to bring in quite a few guys. It's better to have a tough decision on who to cut than have to keep a guy(s) who you're not really confident in.[/quote]

Norwell is under contract for another year w a 5.1M cap hit in 2023.

Interesting bonus structure w 3 void years added after 2023. I dont really understand it.

Cut pre June = 2.8M dead cap
Post June = only 700k

[url]https://overthecap.com/player/andrew-norwell/3282[/url]

Norwell is serviceable imo, if hes our weakest OL starter next year, Im fine with it.

This FO and OL coach Matsko have done a decent job in identifying good value FA additions in FA and I imagine we could plug 2 starter OL guys from FA if needed.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=SunnySide;1331944]Norwell is under contract for another year w a 5.1M cap hit in 2023.

Interesting bonus structure w 3 void years added after 2023. I dont really understand it.

Cut pre June = 2.8M dead cap
Post June = only 700k

[url]https://overthecap.com/player/andrew-norwell/3282[/url]

Norwell is serviceable imo, if hes our weakest OL starter next year, Im fine with it.

This FO and OL coach Matsko have done a decent job in identifying good value FA additions in FA and I imagine we could plug 2 starter OL guys from FA if needed.[/quote]

Yeah, and I think he is at the position deemed least important on the line, but I would like a challenge they by a younger player.

The center position is a bit of a cluster as Roullier when healthy is good, but we are two years now in a row with a significant injury missing time.

To me, getting get a young interior Olineman who can play both G/Center with starter potential in the draft is a priority.

Re: Grade the O Line at the Bye
 

[quote=SunnySide;1331944]Norwell is under contract for another year w a 5.1M cap hit in 2023.

Interesting bonus structure w 3 void years added after 2023. I dont really understand it.

Cut pre June = 2.8M dead cap
Post June = only 700k

[url]https://overthecap.com/player/andrew-norwell/3282[/url]

Norwell is serviceable imo, if hes our weakest OL starter next year, Im fine with it.

This FO and OL coach Matsko have done a decent job in identifying good value FA additions in FA and I imagine we could plug 2 starter OL guys from FA if needed.[/quote]

SS, I was on over the cap last weekend, what I found interesting is go to Free Agent tracker, sort by RG. What pops up? Red flag saying, hey we could do a lot better with our money