Maybe a Turnaround?
 

The judge is letting Taylor go to work

[url]http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/WAS/8641007[/url]

[QUOTE]MIAMI (July 12, 2005) -- A judge allowed Washington Redskins safety Sean Taylor to travel to training camp, and state prosecutors did not offer a plea deal at a court hearing to discuss charges the player pointed a gun during a dispute over an all-terrain vehicle. [/QUOTE]


Will Taylor attend camp? Will this help to take his mind off things? Will this be the beginning of a turnaround?

Tune in tomorrow for another episode of the soap opera surrounding the Redskins.

What are y'alls thoughts?

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

When did Taylor ever say he was holding out for a new contract? When did Taylor say he wouldn't be in camp. I honestly think he took a lot of shit this season and wanted to just go home and get it off his mind and come back fresh. I, for one, feel that constant off-season workouts just contributes to extra injuries. As long as he comes to the MANDITORY camps and not the optional ones I can deal with it.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

I think that he will show up and have a pro bowl season. Kobe Braynt played pretty good for the Lakers 2 years ago when he was going through his legal troubles. Sean will do the same. I bet he will get off like Kobe did too.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

Gibbs was letting him go to work to but that didnt get him to do it, lol. I hope he goes and stops worrying about a new contract. That or just add a clause sayign we will pay for his lawyers during the contract. That could add up to more than a signing bonus.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=Riggo44]I think that he will show up and have a pro bowl season. Kobe Braynt played pretty good for the Lakers 2 years ago when he was going through his legal troubles. Sean will do the same. I bet he will get off like Kobe did too.[/QUOTE]
Damn, as much as I HATE Kobean I have to agree (somewhat) with the correlation.. If Taylor plays to half the level Ko-me played at then he'll be just fine..

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=Riggo44]get off like Kobe did.[/QUOTE]

hahaha, no pun intended right?

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]When did Taylor ever say he was holding out for a new contract? When did Taylor say he wouldn't be in camp. I honestly think he took a lot of shit this season and wanted to just go home and get it off his mind and come back fresh. I, for one, feel that constant off-season workouts just contributes to extra injuries. As long as he comes to the MANDITORY camps and not the optional ones I can deal with it.[/QUOTE]

I agree wit u completely well said

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]hahaha, no pun intended right?[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you caught that TAFKAS. :thumb:

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

Daseal:

You are parsing sentences here like former President Clinton. Taylor never said he would [B]hold out because he wanted a new contract[/B], but he did indeed say he is [B]unhappy with his current deal [/B] and [B]wants a new one[/B]. And he did indeed skip the "voluntary" workouts that all the other Redskins managed to attend; and all the time, found a way not to return any phone calls from his coach. My assessment is that he has not been a "true Redskin" this offseason.

He'll be in camp and I suspect that his agent will be the one who makes sure he shows up on time for camp. Remember, his lawyer in Florida made a point of getting the court's permission for Taylor to leave the jurisdiction of the court to go to camp because it was important to his job and his career for him to be in camp. It would be very bad for the judge back there to learn later that Taylor was holding out and not going to this thing that the judge allowed him to go to. Important rule for people about to stand trial:


Don't piss off the judge presiding over your case!


I don't read minds so I have no idea why he went home and didn't return any phone calls to his team or his coach. Maybe he agent told him to behave that way. Maybe he is an anti-social MEATHEAD. Maybe he just forgot to place the calls. Or maybe he wanted to get his head straight. I don't know; I suspect you don't know,and I'm not convinced that he knows.

There are 32 NFL head coaches and about 360 NFL assistant coaches who disagree with you that offseason workouts lead to injuries and are more harmful than helpful. Until one team decides to put your theory to the test and decides not to have any off-season workouts - and then that team wins at least a divison title - I'm going to go with the approximately 400 professionals in this field and say that offseason workouts are beneficial to NFL players and teams.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

I'm not saying no offseason workouts at all, however, that was a big topic of discussion on NFL radio today. Also, I believe Brian Billick is really lenient on off-season workouts.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

i believe all workouts are important but with that aside i agree with daseal, Taylor never really said he was holding out. Gibbs also says he didn't know why Taylor wasn't at OTAs, either gibbs was playing for the media or no one ever told gibbs that Taylor was holding out, niether Taylor or Roesenhous, so why would we think he was holding out.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

Roesenhous has been an agent long enough to know that rookies can't make changes to their contracts in the first year, so knowing that why would he even try.
taylor's not a true redskin. Would you be...
Please remember not everyone grew up loving the skins like us fans. First He's drafted under contriversy, then he sign's a contract many in the league say he got stiffed, then he's been persecuted by the DC media since his arrival. Everyones mad at him cause he choses not to speak. He comes from Miami were he's treated like a god to DC were he's treated like a punk kid on a sorry team. if u haven't noticed 40% of the dc area media act like their cowboys, Giant, or Eagle fans (hate to say it)
while other people around here are stuck in the past.like this is the jack kent cooke era.
I say suppport him as a team and organization and he'll become a true redskin. There have been no real true redskins since Snyder has been the owner. Thats because he is so busy fuckin up everyones contract, stiffin our franchise players and fans (with those outrageous ticket prices), and makin bad impressoins around the league. It's hard to get any real loyalty from any player for the skins now a days. come back Jack!!

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

Just finished watching NFL Live on ESPN, they seem to believe that the hearings will preside after the season is finished.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

We've had other coaches in the past that were lenient with off-season workouts too, and look where that got us.

While we don't need camp Marty again, we certainly don't need camp Norv or camp Spurrier again either. I think Gibbs is very aware of how hard to work the team and can find a happy medium.

I agree there's a fine line between working your guys too hard and getting them in top condition. But I do think working hard in the off-season can have it’s benefits. Not just for conditioning, but for building team chemistry.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Daseal:

You are parsing sentences here like former President Clinton. Taylor never said he would [b]hold out because he wanted a new contract[/b], but he did indeed say he is [b]unhappy with his current deal [/b] and [b]wants a new one[/b].[/QUOTE]

I've never heard ST or Ronsenhaus say it. Maybe I missed the news article that had these quotes. As far as I know, it's all [i]speculation [/i]from the media due to the fact that ST never explained his absences.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=cpayne5]I've never heard ST or Ronsenhaus say it. Maybe I missed the news article that had these quotes. As far as I know, it's all [i]speculation [/i]from the media due to the fact that ST never explained his absences.[/QUOTE]

I agree. SportsCurmudgeon, I have no idea where you're getting this. Gibbs even said that he doesn't believe Sean's absence is due to contract issues.

He's just a head-case. I hope he stops being a head-case for sure. But if he misses non-mandatory workouts, I won't hold it against him. As long as he makes it to camp and plays hard this season, I'll be happy.

I'd also like to see him avoid getting into situations like the one he's in now. From everything I'm reading, he's pretty likely to be acquitted of the charges outright; but he shouldn't have gotten into the situation in the first place. He's got to hang around the right people.

But as long as he is in camp, gets in shape quickly, and plays hard this year, I will have no beef. If he does those things, he'll be a serious menace in our secondary, you can take that to the bank.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=diehardskin2982]taylor's not a true redskin. Would you be...
Please remember not everyone grew up loving the skins like us fans. First He's drafted under contriversy, then he sign's a contract many in the league say he got stiffed, then he's been persecuted by the DC media since his arrival. Everyones mad at him cause he choses not to speak. He comes from Miami were he's treated like a god to DC were he's treated like a punk kid on a sorry team. if u haven't noticed 40% of the dc area media act like their cowboys, Giant, or Eagle fans (hate to say it)
[/QUOTE]

No offense, but cry me a river. First off, he got a guaranteed $7.2 million signing bonus before he ever stepped on the field (which is over $1.5 million more than Ed Reed has gotten paid all his years combined, including this year's salary under his current contract). Second, the media was not harder on ST than they've been on any other star athelete in DC. Missing rookie events, getting pulled over for drunk driving and getting arrested for aggrevated assault with a firearm will tend to bring some negative publicity unto yourself. Third, the only controversey surrounding his draft pick was KWII spouting his big mouth off about how he was "promised" by the skins to be drafted. There wasn't any controversey surrounding Taylor being selected. The pick was immediately embraced by most fans and the team. Fourth, the players and fans tried connecting with ST and making him feel at home immediately. ST just decided to spit in their faces and spend more time hanging with his friends in Miami, rather than attending voluntary camps where he should have been like every other Redskins player. And Fifth, and most importantly, he's a professional athelete being paid to do a job. He doesn't have to grow up loving the skins like us..........but when he gets paid millions of dollars to play a game for our team, I expect some loyalty and some professionalism.

[QUOTE]
I say suppport him as a team and organization and he'll become a true redskin. There have been no real true redskins since Snyder has been the owner. [/QUOTE]

I would argue that Arrington, Samuels and Jansen are "true" long-term Redskins. Of course that's up for debate and everyone has their opinion on the matter, but, to me, I feel good saying those guys are skins.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

Let's say this whole gun thing never happened with ST.

While I don't see it happening now after that debacle, would anyone have been surprised if ST decided to hold out for a new contract?

If you say yes you're seriously delusional. Speculation or not, there is some truth to it.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]
If you say yes you're seriously delusional. Speculation or not, there is some truth to it.[/QUOTE]

Where are the quotes though? Everyone seems to know that he is unhappy with his contract, even without him saying as much.

If there was some truth to it, it wouldn't be speculation, it would be fact.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

You can blame the (probably liberal) media for the "misconception" that Taylor wants a new deal.
[QUOTE=ESPN]Taylor, who wants a new contract, has been working out in Miami despite pleas from coach Joe Gibbs to join the team in voluntary workouts at their home base in suburban Washington. He signed a seven-year, $18 million deal as the No. 5 overall draft pick in the 2004 draft.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=WaPost]Redskins Coach Joe Gibbs expressed frustration over the absence of Santana Moss and Sean Taylor from voluntary offseason workouts. Gibbs said he believed that Moss's absence was related to his desire for a new contract. Gibbs confirmed last week that team officials had held discussions with Taylor to hear his contract concerns, but at this point the Redskins do not appear inclined to greatly alter that deal. [/Quote]

Just google the phrase "Sean Taylor new contract". There will be no shortsge of links.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

I'm not saying there are hard facts that he wants a new deal, but there was enough talk from both sides during the off-season to indicate that a new contract was at least an issue at hand that would need to be formally discussed at some point.

He skipped all the off-season functions and didn't return any calls from the team. Maybe he is just a weirdo who wanted to get away from football for a while, or maybe he was beginning to position himself for a training camp holdout. I think it would be a bit naive to dismiss the latter so quickly.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I'm not saying there are hard facts that he wants a new deal, but there was enough talk from both sides during the off-season to indicate that a new contract was at least an issue at hand that would need to be formally discussed at some point.

He skipped all the off-season functions and didn't return any calls from the team. Maybe he is just a weirdo who wanted to get away from football for a while, or maybe he was beginning to position himself for a training camp holdout. I think it would be a bit naive to dismiss the latter so quickly.[/QUOTE]
I'm not dismissing it. I just think that some people are putting too much emphasis on nothing more than speculation.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

Don't get me wrong, I agree much has been made out of what is basically just speculation.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

diehardskin 2982:

If Jack Kent Cooke comes back to reclaim the Redskins, he'll need to have Shirley MacLaine channeling for him. Much as some of us old-timers would like to see that happen, it ain't gonna happen.


I have said all along that Taylor would be in camp - even before the "unfortunate gun incident"; I wasn't sure he'd be there on the first day of camp, but he'd be there. Now I think he'll be there bright and early on the first morning that camp begins.

I've said all along that he will not spend any time in jail - even before the other gentlemen involved here refused to turn state's evidence against Taylor.

I can't give you any quotes recently from Sean Taylor about anything because Taylor hasn't talked to the media very much - even less to them than to Joe Gibbs it seems.

But if you think Taylor's happy with his contract you forget how he reacted to KW II's comments that he got screwed in signing that deal about 48 hours after the ink was dry. And you forget how he's been hearing from the NFLPA and the media and probably from his new agent that this was not the best deal he could have signed. His contract is for a lot more money than I will make in my lifetime, but he stood to make less than some people drafted after him and that is an ego-bruise. Most pro athletes can't take ego-bruises very well; I suspect that Sean Taylor is very similar to his compatriots in that dimension.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]But if you think Taylor's happy with his contract you forget how he reacted to KW II's comments that he got screwed in signing that deal about 48 hours after the ink was dry. And you forget how he's been hearing from the NFLPA and the media and probably from his new agent that this was not the best deal he could have signed. His contract is for a lot more money than I will make in my lifetime, but he stood to make less than some people drafted after him and that is an ego-bruise. Most pro athletes can't take ego-bruises very well; I suspect that Sean Taylor is very similar to his compatriots in that dimension.[/QUOTE]

I'll bet he doesn't stand to make any less money than any other safety taken after him though. I'm just saying, something has to be said for the fact that he's a safety and not a TE, WR, RB, QB or any other position that typically warrants a huge contract. I'm one of the few that still isn't convinced he got as terrible a deal as people like to claim.

Putting that aside, however, I absolutely agree that he's not happy with his contract anymore (mostly because he already got the most favorable portion of that contract paid to him in guaranteed, up-front money), and if not for his recent "legal issues", I would have fully expected a camp holdout.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

yes I know Jack is dead I live in the area and been a fan all my life... I was joking on that one curmudgeon. As for the issue of Taylors contract the only person who knows if he is upset about the contract is Taylor. The speculation now is just the media and his agent. I've heard it said that when ever an agent get a new client, he feels that the old current contract null and void because otherwise he doesn't get paid.

Earlier someone said that they felt Jansen, Samuels, and Arrington true skins... This may be true but who would u blame if any of these players left, them or the team. Last year I remember many of you were calling for Samuel's trade to draft Robert Gallery. Arrington has lashed out publicly at the team. If he or Jansen doesn't come back to their true form from injury, do you still consider them true skins, or excess weight needed to be droped from the roster.

I am personally still a Sean Taylor, but until our team shows true loyalty to a player I feel the last true skin was Darrel Green. I know alot of you may dissagree because of Samuels new contract but I want to see if he'll still be here in 2 years or become a cap casualty

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=diehardskin2982]Earlier someone said that they felt Jansen, Samuels, and Arrington true skins... This may be true but who would u blame if any of these players left, them or the team. Last year I remember many of you were calling for Samuel's trade to draft Robert Gallery. Arrington has lashed out publicly at the team. If he or Jansen doesn't come back to their true form from injury, do you still consider them true skins, or excess weight needed to be droped from the roster.

I am personally still a Sean Taylor, but until our team shows true loyalty to a player I feel the last true skin was Darrel Green. I know alot of you may dissagree because of Samuels new contract but I want to see if he'll still be here in 2 years or become a cap casualty[/QUOTE]

Who would I blame if they left? I guess it depends on the circumstances under which they are leaving.

I guess I just don't see the point in presenting a host of "what if's" and "maybes". You made the statement that we've never had a true redskin since Snyder took over. I presented three players who, at least for right now, looking at everything that has happened so far in their careers, appear to be true Redskins. Samuels and Arrington signed long term contracts with the team without even testing the free agent market (can't say the same for Smoot and Pierce). Arrington's statements were, I believe, out of frustration from being injured and not healing as quickly as he wanted to (just my opinion). At no point has Arrington ever asked or demanded to be traded (ala Coles). He's never held out for a new contract. He's said time and time again he'd love to stay here his entire career. Just because certain fans (and I'm definitely not one of them) wanted to trade Samuels to pick Gallery doesn't make him any less of a true Redskin. As for injuries: What if [i]ANY[/i] high-priced player in the NFL gets injured and can't get back to 100%? Of course the team has to cut them or renegotiate a lower salary. If Peyton Manning had a career ending injury, or an injury he couldn't come back from to be 100% again, he'd be "excess weight" that the Colts would have to cut too, but that doesn't make him any less of a true Colt right now, does it?

As for the team needing to show more loyalty, I'm big on loyalty from both the players and the team. But I'd argue that the Skins organization treats their players about as well as any other organization in the league. I mean really, when you think about it, they have a history of (and are, in fact, notorious for) rewarding their players very hansomely when it comes to contract time. Nobody would ever call the Skins stingy with their contracts (unlike, say, the Eagles who have camp holdouts almost every year........not to say the Eagles are doing anything wrong, but overall Skins players are paid more than Eagles players).

You've got Sean "Meathead" Taylor (sorry SC, I'm borrowing that term from you) who finds some form of trouble at every turn. How do the Skins handle him and his "Jackassery" (that one's mine)? EVEN AFTER ignoring his coach's calls for months and simply not showing up at voluntary workouts for absolutely no legitimate reason, the Skins first action is to excuse him from mini-camps to let him try to get his legal issues sorted out, and to call him, yet again, to finally have a conversation about what Sean Taylor needs to get back on track.

Ask the players what they think about Joe Gibbs, and a very large majority are going to tell you that they love the guy, that he's the nicest, most respectful guy they've ever met, that they have nothing but respect for him........I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of locker rooms in the NFL that aren't quite so high on their coach and don't feel like they are being treated like professionals by their coaching staff.

Then you look at guys who have had fairly devastating injuries, and how quick are the Skins to cut those guys loose? Trotter signed a big contract, then tore up his knee. The skins gave him a couple seasons to heal and get back on the field before deciding to cut him because it just wasn't working out. They didn't have to be as patient with him as they were. Brandon Noble had a devastating knee injury that many thought could be career threatening. He's still here, trying to get back to form how many seasons later, and the Skins have no intention on trying to cut him or renegotiate his salary (from what I've heard). Mike Barrow was out all last year with a knee injury, and things weren't looking great for this year either. Still, they did not cut Barrow, they are being patient with his recovery, and the simple fact that he's been showing progress lately has kept him a Redskin. I don't believe there would be many teams as patient and understanding with Barrow as the Skins have been.

So I guess that's all the long way of saying I think we do have some true Redskins on our team right now, and that I don't think the Redskins need to do anything more than they've been doing to treat their players right.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

PSUSkinsfan21:

Feel free to employ the "Meathead" label to Sean Taylor whenever you think it is appropriate. I never bothered to copyright it; it wasn't worth it.

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]PSUSkinsfan21:

Feel free to employ the "Meathead" label to Sean Taylor whenever you think it is appropriate. I never bothered to copyright it; it wasn't worth it.[/QUOTE]

Thanks SC .......you know I will.:thumb:

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=Riggo44]I think that he will show up and have a pro bowl season. Kobe Braynt played pretty good for the Lakers 2 years ago when he was going through his legal troubles. Sean will do the same. I bet he will get off like Kobe did too.[/QUOTE]

Riggo44...........NEVER EVER EVER compare a Redskin with a (F)Laker......

I'm a Redskin and Spurs Fan and Laker Hater................

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=monk81]Riggo44...........NEVER EVER EVER compare a Redskin with a (F)Laker......

I'm a Redskin and Spurs Fan and Laker Hater................[/QUOTE]


Why you don't like a winner? I like it that you Hate the Lakers! :biggthump You have to be good for somone to care enough to hate you! :thumb:
I guess that's why I can't bring myself to hate the Spurs yet. If they win 7 or 8 more titles then maybe. But untill then I can't bring myself to hate a team that has won 2 and a 1/2(*) titles in 6 years with one team. A boring team with no personality I might add. Win a some more titles with more then one team. And you might start reaching the level of the Lakers. I repeat start reaching there level as a Basketball club. And thus deserving of my Hate. :FIREdevil

Besides If it wasn't for your Ex Laker hitting that 3 pointer you might have lost to Detroit this year .:laughing-

So keep on hating. I only makes us stronger! :biggthump

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

I'm hatin' the Pats now too!

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=Riggo44]Why you don't like a winner? I like it that you Hate the Lakers! :biggthump You have to be good for somone to care enough to hate you! :thumb:
I guess that's why I can't bring myself to hate the Spurs yet. If they win 7 or 8 more titles then maybe. But untill then I can't bring myself to hate a team that has won 2 and a 1/2(*) titles in 6 years with one team. A boring team with no personality I might add. Win a some more titles with more then one team. And you might start reaching the level of the Lakers. I repeat start reaching there level as a Basketball club. And thus deserving of my Hate. :FIREdevil

Besides If it wasn't for your Ex Laker hitting that 3 pointer you might have lost to Detroit this year .:laughing-

So keep on hating. I only makes us stronger! :biggthump[/QUOTE]

1. I can hear Darth Vader breathing as he says, let your HATE strengthen the dark side ;)

2. Spurs are GOOD GUYS hard to hate, good character players much like Joe Gibb's Redskin players........

3. Easy to HATE the Lakers with Phil's sarcastic, well aimed zingers ....... funny how people get upset over the media's treatment of the Redskins, but applaud the media biased FOR the (f) Lakers. And hey they cheated, time ran OUT when Derrek Fischer hit that shot well beyond the .04 clock time...........the Lakers didn't really win that game, and it should've been the Spurs should've been playing the Pistons the year before :angry: It reminds me of an old Cardinal/Redskin game when one ref ruled a Redskin TD as good, and another ref overturned the play, and ruled the TD no good, and Cards won.....I had nightmares over that play for weeks!!!

4. There are quite a few Spur fans that don't like ex Laker Horry, calling him a
Laker spy.........they view Horry much like the Redskin fans did when Snyder signed Neon Deon. BUT remember this Riggo44.......Horry was a ROCKET (We spur fans hate the Rockets too), BEFORE he was a (F) Laker..........

5. Boring??????? You call Manu Ginoboli boring?????? Yes, Duncan is spock like, quiet player and leader, I hope you didn't call Dave Butz or Jacoby boring did you? players that brought their lunch pails and brought their all!!! BTW Duncan has a fantastic sense of humor, as does Brent Barry and Bruce Bowen. And Tony Parker and Eva Longoria are boring????? :confused

The Spurs/Laker rivalry is as intense as the Redskins/Cowboys is to their fans.........FEEL OUR HATE :FIREdevil

Re: Maybe a Turnaround?
 

[QUOTE=monk81]1. I can hear Darth Vader breathing as he says, let your HATE strengthen the dark side ;)

2. Spurs are GOOD GUYS hard to hate, good character players much like Joe Gibb's Redskin players........

3. Easy to HATE the Lakers with Phil's sarcastic, well aimed zingers ....... funny how people get upset over the media's treatment of the Redskins, but applaud the media biased FOR the (f) Lakers. And hey they cheated, time ran OUT when Derrek Fischer hit that shot well beyond the .04 clock time...........the Lakers didn't really win that game, and it should've been the Spurs should've been playing the Pistons the year before :angry: It reminds me of an old Cardinal/Redskin game when one ref ruled a Redskin TD as good, and another ref overturned the play, and ruled the TD no good, and Cards won.....I had nightmares over that play for weeks!!!

4. There are quite a few Spur fans that don't like ex Laker Horry, calling him a
Laker spy.........they view Horry much like the Redskin fans did when Snyder signed Neon Deon. BUT remember this Riggo44.......Horry was a ROCKET (We spur fans hate the Rockets too), BEFORE he was a (F) Laker..........

5. Boring??????? You call Manu Ginoboli boring?????? Yes, Duncan is spock like, quiet player and leader, I hope you didn't call Dave Butz or Jacoby boring did you? players that brought their lunch pails and brought their all!!! BTW Duncan has a fantastic sense of humor, as does Brent Barry and Bruce Bowen. And Tony Parker and Eva Longoria are boring????? :confused

The Spurs/Laker rivalry is as intense as the Redskins/Cowboys is to their fans.........FEEL OUR HATE :FIREdevil[/QUOTE]

If feel your jealousy a.k.a "HATE". But I understand. If I lived in S.A I would be jealous too. I mean HATFUL towards a team that played in sunny SoCal. A team that has won more games then any other team in U.S sports history. A team that always seems to land the star players. And a team that has a great owner and never stays down for more then a few years. Not to mention the Laker girls! yum yum! So it's all good I understand your pain a.ka HATE. ;)

p.s

I have a picture of Fishers shot on the wall in front of my desk. :lol: You can see the ball in the air before the clock expires sorry. :smashfrea


I do like the rivalry we have developed over the last few years. But it's all about score board and the Spurs have alot of chatching up to do if they want to be thought of in the same class as my Lakers!!! :silly: