do we show our hand to soon (Barrow allowed to seek trade)
 

The Redskins have recently given Barrow permission to seek a trade, there is likely to be no intrest and result in his release.

This causes me to ask the question do the redskins as a team tip their hands to early on what moves they will make with players. I feel they do for two reasons

1. Rod Gardner: we made it very clear that he will no longer be on the team and given him permission to seek a trade; however he gets no suitors. This is because of the fact that everyone knows we don't want him, so sooner or later we will release him. Why exchange a pick or compensation for someone, that eventually they will get for free later.

2. Barrow: many believed we would release him and if he's treated like Gardner he will soon have no value to us. So I ask why not just release him.

I don't like the way that Gibbs is handling this, it seems like he doesn't know what he is doing as a GM. To me he is tipping his hand either way to early or way to late. With Gardner it was simply too early because everyone in the league knew we had no value in the wideout and therefore won't give us a dime in return for him. They are willing to holdout until we release him.

While with barrow on the other hand its was way to late... we should of found a trade that we liked and used him as trade bait. Maybe they want to send him to the patriots or something

either way I think when you tell players to seek a trade, it sends the message that we don't want him, please take him. if we showed value in our players or atleast acted like we had value in them by letting them come to camp or make it seem like they will participate in camp I think we would get more trade offers... what do you guys think?

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

I agree, I do not like how our front office handled 50/50. Now I too believe that we will end up just cutting him and getting nothing in return.

As for Barrow, I think that we should just release him, but I dont think that anyone would have wanted him if we did try to trade him. I mean look at Ty Law, he is still on the FA market. Why? Because he was injured last year, same with Barrow, he is an injured player so why would any GM give up a 7th round pick, where they could draft a young healthy player, for an older injured vet?

Also, don't forget how we let the world know that we were going to draft Campbell with our second pick too!!

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

we didn't handle barrow wrong but 50/50 was a big mistake, i think we could ave pulled a forth out, i think we were going for a 3rd. Didn't San Fran offer TO a few years ago for 50/50?

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

First of Rod and his representative publicly announced that he wants out. When a player who isn't top talent wants out no one is willing to pay with draft picks unless they see something in he and really want him more than other teams. Coles got traded because he was worth something.

Barraw has no value. You'd be stupid to pay draft picks for an old guy coming of a season long injury.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=diehardskin2982]The Redskins have recently given Barrow permission to seek a trade, there is likely to be no intrest and result in his release.

This causes me to ask the question do the redskins as a team tip their hands to early on what moves they will make with players. I feel they do for two reasons

1. Rod Gardner: we made it very clear that he will no longer be on the team and given him permission to seek a trade; however he gets no suitors. This is because of the fact that everyone knows we don't want him, so sooner or later we will release him. Why exchange a pick or compensation for someone, that eventually they will get for free later.

2. Barrow: many believed we would release him and if he's treated like Gardner he will soon have no value to us. So I ask why not just release him.

I don't like the way that Gibbs is handling this, it seems like he doesn't know what he is doing as a GM. To me he is tipping his hand either way to early or way to late. With Gardner it was simply too early because everyone in the league knew we had no value in the wideout and therefore won't give us a dime in return for him. They are willing to holdout until we release him.

While with barrow on the other hand its was way to late... we should of found a trade that we liked and used him as trade bait. Maybe they want to send him to the patriots or something

either way I think when you tell players to seek a trade, it sends the message that we don't want him, please take him. if we showed value in our players or atleast acted like we had value in them by letting them come to camp or make it seem like they will participate in camp I think we would get more trade offers... what do you guys think?[/QUOTE]

I think if Barrow is healthy, we give him a chance to do what Pierce did last year. Come in, do well and trade next year.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

i guess. i think we should just release barrow, he isn't getting any younger, his trade value is gone. 50/50 we should just release. someone else is gonna get him for free, unless we trade him for a seventh rounder. but the reason they are waiting to release him is because training camp begins soon. there might be an injury to another starting wideout on another team. bam, now they might have a trade partner. that is what they are waiting for.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

I'm fine with the handling of Gardner, but Barrow? Apparently, he's recovering just fine and I've read all this talk about him seeing a chance at being a starter.

But you're right, he isn't getting any younger and we shouldn't put someone in there who might be gone next year when we could develop young talent.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

Everyone seems to overlook an important factor with RG. Teams that want to trade for him want him to sign a long-term new deal, and reports are that he's been reluctant to do so, and therefore he himself has been a big snag in any trade attempts.

It's not all on the front office.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

Yeah I'm with Matty. In fact, I wouldn't heap ANY blame on the front office.

First off, Barrow is friggin worthless in the trade market. He's old, hasn't played in over a year, and is dealing with chronic knee problems. He'd come to a new team and have to learn a whole new system, on top of his health issues. If he's healthy, then MAYBE he can be a starter for some NFL teams. But most teams have a decent mike LB in place, and all he would be is a backup. Teams might pay him the veteran minimum salary as a free agent, but there's no way in hell they'd give up any draft picks plus take on his $1.7 million base salary this season. There's nothing the front office can do about him.

On Gardner, the Redskins had several trade possibilities lined up to net them a 3rd or 4th round pick, but because Gardner demanded a new contract, all the teams backed off. Nobody is going to give up a 3rd or 4th rounder for a one-year rental, especially when that player can't catch the ball with consistency.

Gibbs has done everything he can do. He's actually being smart by deciding to release them as late as possible. He's holding out hope that a team will get desperate and cut a deal. There's nothing Gibbs could have done to strengthen his bargaining position.

Who the hell is gonna trade for Barrow?
 

Man we have the stupidest front office in the league. Who the hell would give up a pick for a guy with a bad knee and is 35. Either cut him or keep him on the roster. Forget about a trade. Man Synder needs to be cut.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=diehardskin2982]The Redskins have recently given Barrow permission to seek a trade, there is likely to be no intrest and result in his release.

This causes me to ask the question do the redskins as a team tip their hands to early on what moves they will make with players. I feel they do for two reasons

1. Rod Gardner: we made it very clear that he will no longer be on the team and given him permission to seek a trade; however he gets no suitors. This is because of the fact that everyone knows we don't want him, so sooner or later we will release him. Why exchange a pick or compensation for someone, that eventually they will get for free later.

2. Barrow: many believed we would release him and if he's treated like Gardner he will soon have no value to us. So I ask why not just release him.

I don't like the way that Gibbs is handling this, it seems like he doesn't know what he is doing as a GM. To me he is tipping his hand either way to early or way to late. With Gardner it was simply too early because everyone in the league knew we had no value in the wideout and therefore won't give us a dime in return for him. They are willing to holdout until we release him.

While with barrow on the other hand its was way to late... we should of found a trade that we liked and used him as trade bait. Maybe they want to send him to the patriots or something

either way I think when you tell players to seek a trade, it sends the message that we don't want him, please take him. if we showed value in our players or atleast acted like we had value in them by letting them come to camp or make it seem like they will participate in camp I think we would get more trade offers... what do you guys think?[/QUOTE]


FINALLY! Yes, our front office IS to blame for the way they have bungled one situation after another! Why even sign Barrow, 35, to a 6 year 13 million dollar dealt to begin with! And why would you tell Lavernous Coles that you will trade him and suffer such a huge cap hit? This team needs a GM. Those of us that are old school remember when the GM was Bobby Beatherd and the team thrived with its personnell, now we flounder. Gibbs has proven he's a great coach, but he needs someone else to be the devil's advocate on personnell decisions, just like Beatherd was in the old days. Vinny Cerrato is NOT the answer, we need a GM that will work with the coach, and disagree with him when it is necessary. Yes, they have picked up a few good free agents in Marcus Washington and Cornelius, but for the most part our team is in disarray when it comes to the draft and free agency. Look at Darnerian McCants, signed him to a deal, gave him a nice sigining bonus, then sat his ass on the bench all of last season. We traded like a 3rd round pick for Brunnell who would've been cut anyway, then we trade Champ AND a draft pick for Portis. I know some of you guys don't like to criticize our team, but the fact of the matter is that our front office has made the Skins a laughing stock on most websites. We need a GM.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

I could not find any news that we wanted to trade Barrow. Where did this come from?

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

Check the news wire

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?threadid=6921[/url]

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

Right. Eventually Rod will just have to take what he can getg.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan]FINALLY! Yes, our front office IS to blame for the way they have bungled one situation after another! Why even sign Barrow, 35, to a 6 year 13 million dollar dealt to begin with! And why would you tell Lavernous Coles that you will trade him and suffer such a huge cap hit? This team needs a GM. Those of us that are old school remember when the GM was Bobby Beatherd and the team thrived with its personnell, now we flounder. Gibbs has proven he's a great coach, but he needs someone else to be the devil's advocate on personnell decisions, just like Beatherd was in the old days. Vinny Cerrato is NOT the answer, we need a GM that will work with the coach, and disagree with him when it is necessary. Yes, they have picked up a few good free agents in Marcus Washington and Cornelius, but for the most part our team is in disarray when it comes to the draft and free agency. Look at Darnerian McCants, signed him to a deal, gave him a nice sigining bonus, then sat his ass on the bench all of last season. We traded like a 3rd round pick for Brunnell who would've been cut anyway, then we trade Champ AND a draft pick for Portis. I know some of you guys don't like to criticize our team, but the fact of the matter is that our front office has made the Skins a laughing stock on most websites. We need a GM.[/QUOTE]

Actually I don't think that anyone would laugh at our offseason decisions last year. We had two people come in and play at a Pro Bowl level (Springs and Griffin). Who was to know Barrow would have that injury? Portis is doing better for us than Champ is for Denver. I don't see your point?

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

In trying to get rid of either player, how would you suggest we proceed? We are allowing them to seek employment elsewhere, which would allow us to possibly get some compensation for their release. If the decision is made to get rid of Barrow (which likely means they have seen good things from a new addition, so that's a plus), then releasing him or trading him doesn't affect our cap situation either way. If someone is willing to part with a 5th rounder, then great. If not, it would allow us to hold onto Gardner until someone [u]is[/u] willing to trade for him, rather than cutting him to sign draft picks.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

This is the nature of football. How often are trades ever made? Not often compared to other sports. Why? Because the nature of the salary cap and team's reluctance to make moves based on chemistry reasons means it is difficult to get a trade worked out. It is common in the NFL for teams to allow players to seek trades such as in the case of 50/50. The reason they do this is because teams know that with the cap if a team is looking to get rid of a guy they're 95% going to simply release him when it becomes advantageous. Therefore the only way to actually consumate a trade is to get the player to agree to a long term deal so it is in the other team's interest to actually trade for the player rather waiting for him to hit the market and then be faced with competition. To get a long term deal the player has to be involved and it is in no way in the player's benefit to stay quiet about this. There is no "better way" to deal with this issue.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

Its sad to say but our best senario is that a teem has an injury to a WR very early in training camp. That may give use some negotiating power. I would not wish injury on anyone.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan]FINALLY! Yes, our front office IS to blame for the way they have bungled one situation after another! Why even sign Barrow, 35, to a 6 year 13 million dollar dealt to begin with! And why would you tell Lavernous Coles that you will trade him and suffer such a huge cap hit? This team needs a GM. Those of us that are old school remember when the GM was Bobby Beatherd and the team thrived with its personnell, now we flounder. Gibbs has proven he's a great coach, but he needs someone else to be the devil's advocate on personnell decisions, just like Beatherd was in the old days. Vinny Cerrato is NOT the answer, we need a GM that will work with the coach, and disagree with him when it is necessary. Yes, they have picked up a few good free agents in Marcus Washington and Cornelius, but for the most part our team is in disarray when it comes to the draft and free agency. Look at Darnerian McCants, signed him to a deal, gave him a nice sigining bonus, then sat his ass on the bench all of last season. We traded like a 3rd round pick for Brunnell who would've been cut anyway, then we trade Champ AND a draft pick for Portis. I know some of you guys don't like to criticize our team, but the fact of the matter is that our front office has made the Skins a laughing stock on most websites. We need a GM.[/QUOTE]
Wow! those are points no one has ever brought up before! I am surprised we hadn't thought of them.
I don't know if I'll ever get tired of hearing how bad our front office is. I mean the world wouldn't be complete without some know-it-all proclaiming that he thinks we should have handled something differently. 20-20 is hindsight and the decisions made are counter to the decisions made in the past. Note: we haven't won a playoff game since 1991...maybe the decisions in the past we pretty poor and the new dirction is the right way.
As for why we signed Barrow:
Because Barrow had missed like 1 game in the last 8 years and was NOT A INJURY RISK when signed. His situation simply turned out to be bad luck. He was a stud Pro Bowl linebacker with no injury history to speak of. It was a quality signing that didn't work out. The 6 year deal was actually more like a 3 year deal and they got him for decent money. They could not reasonably expected him to never play when he never had any injuries before. Just plain old bad luck.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

Here is one problem that our front office created and could have avoided, that contributed to this situation:
Given our salary cap situation, we do not have enough space to sign our rookies. We have to get rid of someone to sign our rookies and this telegraphs to all the other teams that we HAVE to get rid of someone.
So other teams will just sit back and wait for these players and get them for free; rather offer up valuable draft picks.
We have to dump the salary of RG and MB. Every team in the NFL knows this. We will not anything for them.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

Before last year Barrow was an iron man and the guy that Williams trusted to come in and run his D.

In hindsight it's easy to say it's a move that shouldn't have been made, but until crystal balls are used as a evaluation tool stuff like this is going to happen unfortunately.

Instead of always focusing on the negative, let's look at the other side here. Williams must be pretty confident in the guys competing for the MLB spot if he's willing to dump a healthy Barrow.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan]I know some of you guys don't like to criticize our team, but the fact of the matter is that our front office has made the Skins a laughing stock on most websites.[/QUOTE]
Really?
Then by all means lets make sure the skins change everything they do so that aren't the laughing stocks on all these websites. I mean that's what they should care about right? Being the laughing stock of websites. Yeam that proves they need a GM. I love how everyone is bashing the decisions from this off season and they haven't even played a game yet. I think we ought to implement a new rule that there can be no bitching and moaning unless there is proven reason to. I am not saying that they have done perfectly this off season. I am saying that not one of us has any idea how these moves will pan out. If we make the damn super bowl will all you shut the f$%^ up? Actually if we make the super bowl will you apologize for being idiots? Not saying you are idiots but you could turn out to be totally wrong(making you and idot) or right(making you a genius) but unless you are psychic then stop proclaiming we need to fix a problem we don;t even knwo we if we have.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins]Here is one problem that our front office created and could have avoided, that contributed to this situation:
Given our salary cap situation, we do not have enough space to sign our rookies. We have to get rid of someone to sign our rookies and this telegraphs to all the other teams that we HAVE to get rid of someone.
So other teams will just sit back and wait for these players and get them for free; rather offer up valuable draft picks.
We have to dump the salary of RG and MB. Every team in the NFL knows this. We will not anything for them.[/QUOTE]
How could they have avoided this? Again...not saying I disagree but I am going to start policing statements like this. If you think they should have done something differently then you need to have a reasonable alternative. Simply bitching and moaning because something didn't work out perfectly is pointless. Things often don't work out perfectly in the NFL. Lets have a good discussion on what SHOULD have happened rather than complaining simply because you didn't like the result. Maybe the result was unavoidable.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

Last year's personnel moves outside of Brunell were very solid and borderline exceptional with guys like Griffin and Springs, two moves that critics had a field day with. The jury is out on this year simply because we haven't seen these guys play yet.

Instead of jumping to the "we need a GM" take anytime something happens you don't agree with, why don't we see how this year plays out first?

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Last year's personnel moves outside of Brunell were very solid and borderline exceptional with guys like Griffin and Springs, two moves that critics had a field day with. The jury is out on this year simply because we haven't seen these guys play yet.

Instead of jumping to the "we need a GM" take anytime something happens you don't agree with, why don't we see how this year plays out first?[/QUOTE]
Exactly! I really think we ought to give some benefit of doubt to a guy like Gibbs. He has earned the right to be trusted for now. We have probably had the best on paper offseasons just about every year in the last decade and it never worked out. For once we don't have a great off season on paper(according to many 'critics' and fans) and everyone is going nuts. What could possibily be worse than what we've done in the past? Give them a chance before we skewer them please!

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

personally i think we should cut our losses and move on. if any team offered a 7th round pick for barrow, i would take it. it's better than releasing him and getting nothing. same with gardner. because every other team knows they can get gardner without giving up a draft pick. but in the case someone will give up a draft pick, take it. stop all this, we want at least a fifth round pick for him. it's obvious they aren't gonna get one.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Last year's personnel moves outside of Brunell were very solid and borderline exceptional with guys like Griffin and Springs, two moves that critics had a field day with. The jury is out on this year simply because we haven't seen these guys play yet.

Instead of jumping to the "we need a GM" take anytime something happens you don't agree with, why don't we see how this year plays out first?[/QUOTE]

Preach on brother Matty! You'd think we were the only team to ever allow our players to seek trades. It happens all the time around the league

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

Sometimes members on this site get into a doomsday mentality where mass hysteria (albeit minimal) takes over. Every move in the '04 off-season that was applauded by the media i.e. Brunnell and Barow has YET to pay off. Conversely, the two moves Gibbs and co. were criticized for; signing Springs who had durability issues and Cornelius who had motivational issues paid off far more than anyone could have guessed. To our chagrin Barrow has not been able to repeat his performance from his days as a Giant. But we shouldn't laude the FO for this. Free agency is a crap shoot, if it was a sure thing then we'd reap more rewards from our off season spending. The media, like Len Pasquerelli, sometimes dictates the discourse (and displeasure) of the Redskins motives to its fans. Rather than bemoaning a poor decision we often lose sight that we have an owner who is willing to pay to make his team audibly better rather than staying pat. I guess what I'm trying to say is that rather than being a pessimist let's have a "wait and see" approach before we start criticizing the FO.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan]FINALLY! Yes, our front office IS to blame for the way they have bungled one situation after another! Why even sign Barrow, 35, to a 6 year 13 million dollar dealt to begin with! And why would you tell Lavernous Coles that you will trade him and suffer such a huge cap hit? This team needs a GM. Those of us that are old school remember when the GM was Bobby Beatherd and the team thrived with its personnell, now we flounder. Gibbs has proven he's a great coach, but he needs someone else to be the devil's advocate on personnell decisions, just like Beatherd was in the old days. Vinny Cerrato is NOT the answer, we need a GM that will work with the coach, and disagree with him when it is necessary. Yes, they have picked up a few good free agents in Marcus Washington and Cornelius, but for the most part our team is in disarray when it comes to the draft and free agency. Look at Darnerian McCants, signed him to a deal, gave him a nice sigining bonus, then sat his ass on the bench all of last season. We traded like a 3rd round pick for Brunnell who would've been cut anyway, then we trade Champ AND a draft pick for Portis. I know some of you guys don't like to criticize our team, but the fact of the matter is that our front office has made the Skins a laughing stock on most websites. We need a GM.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more! We need a real G.M.
The Snyder/Cerrato duo has been mostly bad. As you point out they did some good, but mostly bad.
Talent evaluation is the main problem. Our lower round picks is where a G.M. makes his money and we have done terribly in that department.
Beathard/Casserly made great teams with lower round picks and cast offs.
On our current roster our only good players are the top pick/can't miss guys like Lavar Arrington, Chris Samuels, Sean Taylor, Patrick Ramsey, Clinton Portis and John Jansen were all first and second round picks. We have very few if any low round or undrafted players that that is playing great.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

One could argue about the GM (and lord knows we have!!) but why is Barrow thing so bad? My impression is that Barrow and his agent ASKED for permission to seek a trade, and it was granted. SHould they have said no? Why? If the guy thinks he has value, why not? Same with Gardner--we're going to release him, sure. But maybe, before we do, some team is going to lose a WR in training ca,p to injury, and wont be able to take the chance of not getting Rod. They'll trade. Or not, and then we're where we were anyway.

How does this make us a laughing stock, blah balh blah?

As for the FO, I agree with Matty. Let's see it on the field. And Gibbs is only going into his SECOND year as president. It takes time to fix things. Are we in cap hell? No. Short of Taylor (is it the FOs fault he did what he was alleged to do?) and Arrington (Can you say POSTONS?), things seem to be falling into place IMHO.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG]How could they have avoided this? Again...not saying I disagree but I am going to start policing statements like this. If you think they should have done something differently then you need to have a reasonable alternative. Simply bitching and moaning because something didn't work out perfectly is pointless. Things often don't work out perfectly in the NFL. Lets have a good discussion on what SHOULD have happened rather than complaining simply because you didn't like the result. Maybe the result was unavoidable.[/QUOTE]

Bitching and moaning? LOL What a joke.
I just pointed out a problem, how is that bitching and moaning?

Here is a solution to the problem I pointed out:
We should never have traded Coles away at a cost $7m in cap cost. Plus signing the replacement Moss for $?M more in cap space. The replacement of one player (Coles) ended up costing us some $8M in cap money. Our rookies require only about $3M in cap space. we would never have had this problem. problem solved!

While Coles voiced his dipleasure at last years offense, Coles has never been a bad attitude player and there is NO indication he would have been one if he stayed. To say he would have been is speculation. John Riggins was a huge distraction and held out an entire season because he wanted to be traded. riggo came back and won a Superbowl for us.
Players and coaches disagree all the time, getting rid of Coles was drastic and at a big cost.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Last year's personnel moves outside of Brunell were very solid and borderline exceptional with guys like Griffin and Springs, two moves that critics had a field day with. The jury is out on this year simply because we haven't seen these guys play yet.

Instead of jumping to the "we need a GM" take anytime something happens you don't agree with, why don't we see how this year plays out first?[/QUOTE]

I agree Matty. Lets not forget about Marcus Washington, and Walt Harris. Both solid pickups as well.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins]I couldn't agree more! We need a real G.M.
The Snyder/Cerrato duo has been mostly bad. As you point out they did some good, but mostly bad.
Talent evaluation is the main problem. Our lower round picks is where a G.M. makes his money and we have done terribly in that department.
Beathard/Casserly made great teams with lower round picks and cast offs.
On our current roster our only good players are the top pick/can't miss guys like Lavar Arrington, Chris Samuels, Sean Taylor, Patrick Ramsey, Clinton Portis and John Jansen were all first and second round picks. We have very few if any low round or undrafted players that that is playing great.[/QUOTE]

Really Casserly/Beathard don't have many better lower round picks/cast-offs than Cerrato/Snyder/Gibbs.

Casserly/Beathard you're looking at guys like Clint Didier, Mark Rypien, Timmy Smith (one game...but what a game!), Kurt Gouveia, Raleigh McKenzie, Mark Schlereth, Joe Jacoby

Cerrato/Snyder/Gibbs you're talking about guys like Rock Cartwright, Darnerien McCants, Antonio Pierce, LeMar Marshall, Andre Lott, Ryan Clark, Robert Royal (and we'll see how McCune, Newberry, and Nemo pan out)

I know guys like Cartwright, McCants, and Royal haven't made a profound impact yet. But all have shown flashes and at the very least Royal seems to be in the long term plans of this team

All I'm saying is that I don't get this common perception that the Redskins teams of the 1980s were a bunch of late round picks and free agents. I don't think it was like that at all

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

First thing, I do remember reading that Gardner did want an extension from which ever team he went to and this was stalling any trade. But what I do not understand is how can Gardner have any demands as such if he is still under contract to us? When we would trade him wouldn't is basicly be his contract to the other team for what ever pick or player in return?

As for Barrow, there was nothing our Front office could do about that, I mean like many posted he was a very good player that had the bad luck bug bite him last season. So if Barrow would like to try to get to another team then so be it...

But I do want to say that the Gardner thing is about the only thing that the front office did this offseason that made me scratch my head. Many complain about the so called crappy offseason that we had, but I dont see it. Look, we brought in needed help at center, we signed a vet reciever that has tons of experience. We let go a 2nd round corner only to replace him with a first round corner. And we traded an injured reciever for a healthy reciever. Plus we drafted help for our linebackers and for special teams. Most importantly we kept the same staff for another season. All in all, I personally think that we had a pretty good offseason...

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan]FINALLY! Yes, our front office IS to blame for the way they have bungled one situation after another! Why even sign Barrow, 35, to a 6 year 13 million dollar dealt to begin with! And why would you tell Lavernous Coles that you will trade him and suffer such a huge cap hit? This team needs a GM. Those of us that are old school remember when the GM was Bobby Beatherd and the team thrived with its personnell, now we flounder. Gibbs has proven he's a great coach, but he needs someone else to be the devil's advocate on personnell decisions, just like Beatherd was in the old days. Vinny Cerrato is NOT the answer, we need a GM that will work with the coach, and disagree with him when it is necessary. Yes, they have picked up a few good free agents in Marcus Washington and Cornelius, but for the most part our team is in disarray when it comes to the draft and free agency. Look at Darnerian McCants, signed him to a deal, gave him a nice sigining bonus, then sat his ass on the bench all of last season. We traded like a 3rd round pick for Brunnell who would've been cut anyway, then we trade Champ AND a draft pick for Portis. I know some of you guys don't like to criticize our team, but the fact of the matter is that our front office has made the Skins a laughing stock on most websites. We need a GM.[/QUOTE]

There are so many things wrong with this, it's not even funny.

1) At the time of his signing, Mike Barrow was a pillar of health. He led the Giants in tackles the previous year and hardly missed any games. 6 years and $13 million is a nice low price. Hence, cutting him now doesn't destroy our cap, even though he didn't work out due to bad-luck injuries.

1A) The decision to sign Barrow was not the point of this thread. The point is to discuss how to handle Barrow THIS YEAR.

2) Trading Coles was the best move we made this offseason. We were scheduled to be about $10 million over the 2006 salary cap. Now after trading him away and taking his hit this year, our 2006 looks a lot better. We now have a shot at keeping our core together for the long term, without having to cut key cogs like Jansen. And besides, Coles didn't want to be here. I'd rather let the "core player" who doesn't want to be here walk out the door now, instead of lose a core player next year who does want to be here.

3) Darnerian McCants was not signed to that contract under the Gibbs regime. I can see faulting the front office structure before Gibbs arrived, but you can't hold the current structure at fault on that one. McCants is Spurrier's boy. Spurrier who didn't give two craps about special teams play. Gibbs is making the RIGHT call on McCants; if you're not willing to put your time in on special teams, take a seat on the bench. Just who does he think he is, anyway?

4) Our team is in disarray in drafting and free agency? Again, if we're looking at the record of the GIBBS FRONT OFFICE, it looks pretty good:

Griffin - hit
Springs - hit
M Washington - hit
Portis - hit
C Cooley - hit
S Taylor - hit
Walt Harris - hit
Salavea - big hit for the money
Brunell - miss
Barrow - miss

You can't go holding the GIBBS FRONT OFFICE responsible for the Spurrier regime's horrendous moves. Joe Gibbs calls the shots now, at least judge the moves made UNDER HIM.

5) Did you see the year Champ Bailey had in Denver last year? Would you have been happy paying him $8 - $9 million a year? I sure wouldn't.

6) If you're going to say getting Portis was a mistake, you're just nuts. I don't know if that's what you're saying, so I won't put words in your mouth. But that trade with Denver was pure genius. Bailey got killed all year long. Portis ground out 1300 yards despite being in a misfit scheme. If you want to see how we made out, check him out this year in the zone blocking, stretched out scheme. And plus, look who the Broncos got with that 2nd round pick. Tatum Bell. They were so happy with him, that they felt the need to go sign Ron Dayne and draft Maurice Clarett this year.

The Gibbs front office is the best we've had in years. Count your blessings and actually think about what you're saying.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Really Casserly/Beathard don't have many better lower round picks/cast-offs than Cerrato/Snyder/Gibbs.

Casserly/Beathard you're looking at guys like Clint Didier, Mark Rypien, Timmy Smith (one game...but what a game!), Kurt Gouveia, Raleigh McKenzie, Mark Schlereth, Joe Jacoby

Cerrato/Snyder/Gibbs you're talking about guys like Rock Cartwright, Darnerien McCants, Antonio Pierce, LeMar Marshall, Andre Lott, Ryan Clark, Robert Royal (and we'll see how McCune, Newberry, and Nemo pan out)

I know guys like Cartwright, McCants, and Royal haven't made a profound impact yet. But all have shown flashes and at the very least Royal seems to be in the long term plans of this team

All I'm saying is that I don't get this common perception that the Redskins teams of the 1980s were a bunch of late round picks and free agents. I don't think it was like that at all[/QUOTE]

Flashes...thats funny.

On your older players list, you are forgetting alot of solid players, not just flashes. All of these guys are late round pick:
Mark Rypien (pro Bowl), Gary Clark (pro Bowl), Charles Mann (pro Bowl), dexter manley (pro Bowl), Mark Murphy (pro Bowl), Mike Nelms (pro Bowl), Tony Peters (pro Bowl), Ricky Sanders (almost Pro Bowl), Don Warren, Jeff Bostic, Monte Coleman, Mel Kaufman, Darryl Grant, Charlie Brown, Curtis Jordan,....
I could go on but I do not have the time. There are more.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]First thing, I do remember reading that Gardner did want an extension from which ever team he went to and this was stalling any trade. But what I do not understand is how can Gardner have any demands as such if he is still under contract to us? When we would trade him wouldn't is basicly be his contract to the other team for what ever pick or player in return?[/QUOTE]

The problem is this, a team that wants to trade for him doesn't want him for one year. His new team would rather lock him up now rather than having him for one year, he has a big year and then he jets for a bigger contract somewhere else.

One of the conditions of a trade would be him agreeing to a new deal with his new team, and if he's not willing to do that, he's not going to be traded, simple as that.

For Gardner it makes sense for him to test the free agent waters where he could possibly get a couple of teams to outbid each other for his services, rather than agree to a new deal via a trade.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]The problem is this, a team that wants to trade for him doesn't want him for one year. His new team would rather lock him up now rather than having him for one year, he has a big year and then he jets for a bigger contract somewhere else.

One of the conditions of a trade would be him agreeing to a new deal with his new team, and if he's not willing to do that, he's not going to be traded, simple as that.

For Gardner it makes sense for him to test the free agent waters where he could possibly get a couple of teams to outbid each other for his services, rather than agree to a new deal via a trade.[/QUOTE]
Thanks that clears things up...

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]There are so many things wrong with this, it's not even funny......


2) Trading Coles was the best move we made this offseason. We were scheduled to be about $10 million over the 2006 salary cap. Now after trading him away and taking his hit this year, our 2006 looks a lot better. We now have a shot at keeping our core together for the long term, without having to cut key cogs like Jansen. And besides, Coles didn't want to be here. I'd rather let the "core player" who doesn't want to be here walk out the door now, instead of lose a core player next year who does want to be here....
[/QUOTE]


We can agree to disagree, but we DID lose some core guys this year: CB Freddy Smoot and MLB Anotonio Pierce.
Plus we have to make more cuts because we are out of salary cap space to sign our rookies. We were $10M before the Coles for Moss trade. Now we are out of cap space.

Re: do we show our hand to soon
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins]Flashes...thats funny.

On your older players list, you are forgetting alot of solid players, not just flashes. All of these guys are late round pick:
Mark Rypien (pro Bowl), Gary Clark (pro Bowl), Charles Mann (pro Bowl), dexter manley (pro Bowl), Mark Murphy (pro Bowl), Mike Nelms (pro Bowl), Tony Peters (pro Bowl), Ricky Sanders (almost Pro Bowl), Don Warren, Jeff Bostic, Monte Coleman, Mel Kaufman, Darryl Grant, Charlie Brown, Curtis Jordan,....
I could go on but I do not have the time. There are more.[/QUOTE]

You're right I did leave several players out. I'll crawl back into my cave now...

But before I do, I'll just say that I think we need to give our players some time and that the Pro Bowl is a bit of a crap shoot. I mean, if our offense played up to our defense and we had a winning record then Griffin, Springs, Washington, Pierce, among others would have all been Pro Bowlers. It's like when the Skins were winning 11-12 games a year and we'd sent 10 or so players to the pro bowl each year.