53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

If I had to choose the roster right now, here's how it would look. Identifying the 53 man roster helps determine where the biggest training camp battles will be for roster spots.

QB - 3 - Ramsey, Brunell, Campbell
WR - 6 - Moss, Jacobs, Patten, Thrash, Brown, [b]McCants/Dyson[/b]
TB - 2 - Portis, Betts
HB/TE - 5 - Cooley, Royal, White, Broughton, [b]Sellers/Cartwright[/b]
O Line - 9 - Jansen, Thomas, Rabach, Dockery, Samuels, Ray Brown, Molinaro, Wilson, [b]Raymer/Friedman[/b]
Total Offensive Roster Spots - 25

DE - 4 - Wynn, Daniels, Evans, Warner
DT - 4 - Griffin, Salavea'a, Noble, Boschetti
LB - 7 - Arrington, Washington, Marshall, Chris Clemons, Holdman, McCune, [b]Brian Allen/Jared Newberry/Clifton Smith/Khary Campbell[/b]
S - 5 - Taylor, Bowen, Clark, Prioleau,[b] Lott/Dixon[/b]
CB - 5 - Springs, Harris, Rogers, Wilds, [b]Jimoh/Rufus Brown[/b]
Total Defensive Roster Spots - 25

Special Teams - 3 - Tupa, Albright, [b]Hall/Chandler[/b]

Any other battles you guys see? Maybe you can't keep 9 offensive lineman? If you trim the O-Line to 8, you definitely have to have a backup center, so you'd have to cut either Ray Brown, Mark Wilson, or Jim Molinaro. Maybe Holdman, McCune, and Chris Clemons aren't assured roster spots? Maybe White, Broughton, Sellers and Cartwright are all competing for spots? I personally think Bowen will stick around, but maybe he's in a battle?

What do you guys think?

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

I can see Bowen getting cut simply because there are guys that can do his job for alot less $$.

Sellers and Cartwright could be bubble guys due to the fact we brought in White and Nemo.

Either Raymer or Friedman are likely to be cut, I'm thinking Raymer since Friedman can also play guard.

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

ade jimoh does not have to battle anyone, he is practically guaraunteed a spot on the team

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

I hope McCants makes the roster over Dyson. He is substantially younger and actually has an upside.

I have a feeling Sellers is gone. He just made too many boneheaded plays last year. Not as many as Gardiner, but close. Cartwright seems to be a sharper player even thought he height is an issue.

I agree with Matty on the Raymer/Friedman issue.

I'm not sure if Holdman, McCune, or Clemons are locks. I think after Arrington, Washington, and Marshall (he may not even be a lock), everything is going to be based on how these guys perform in camp and on special teams. Same goes for the safeties although I can see how Bowen's salary and health may make him a liability (those ACLs usually take longer than a year to completely recover from).

As for the battle at CB, I don't even think it is a question. Jimoh is the future of our franchise: there is no way he is going anywhere.

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

[QUOTE=Drift Reality]As for the battle at CB, I don't even think it is a question. Jimoh is the future of our franchise: there is no way he is going anywhere.[/QUOTE]

Well said, my friend. I think The Ade is finally getting the respect he deserves.

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

Just a thought, but what if they move Cartwright to be a RB behind Betts?

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]Just a thought, but what if they move Cartwright to be a RB behind Betts?[/QUOTE]

Where you put him on the depth chart isn't as big of a concern as the number of guys on the depth chart. If you put him behind Portis and Betts, then that's one less spot at HB/TE you can carry.

I would think that keeping Cartwright would mean Sellers is a goner. I could be wrong though.

Fine by me if that's the case. Sellers was KILLING ME with those bonehead penalties last year. Sellers' one redeeming quality is that he's a hard-nosed blocker, and I think with the addition of Nemo and White, he might be totally obsolete.

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

I agree. I know he played aggressively, but you can be aggressive without being stupid.

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]If I had to choose the roster right now, here's how it would look. Identifying the 53 man roster helps determine where the biggest training camp battles will be for roster spots.

QB - 3 - Ramsey, Brunell, Campbell
WR - 6 - Moss, Jacobs, Patten, Thrash, Brown, [b]McCants/Dyson[/b]
TB - 2 - Portis, Betts
HB/TE - 5 - Cooley, Royal, White, Broughton, [b]Sellers/Cartwright[/b]
O Line - 9 - Jansen, Thomas, Rabach, Dockery, Samuels, Ray Brown, Molinaro, Wilson, [b]Raymer/Friedman[/b]
Total Offensive Roster Spots - 25

DE - 4 - Wynn, Daniels, Evans, Warner
DT - 4 - Griffin, Salavea'a, Noble, Boschetti
LB - 7 - Arrington, Washington, Marshall, Chris Clemons, Holdman, McCune, [b]Brian Allen/Jared Newberry/Clifton Smith/Khary Campbell[/b]
S - 5 - Taylor, Bowen, Clark, Prioleau,[b] Lott/Dixon[/b]
CB - 5 - Springs, Harris, Rogers, Wilds, [b]Jimoh/Rufus Brown[/b]
Total Defensive Roster Spots - 25

Special Teams - 3 - Tupa, Albright, [b]Hall/Chandler[/b][/QUOTE]

I'd agree with most of that analysis with the exception that I think we will carry 8 or 9 LB's and one or two less DB's. I just remember an analyst saying that New England carries a lot of LB's b/c of their versatility and special teams adaptability.

Additionally, I get the feeling that Williams' defense is very LB dependent and really revolves around have 2 or three good corners, solid D linemen and a lot of LB's to form a deep flexible response to the whatever unique attributes the opposing offense presents in a particular week.

I think your offense and ST's analysis is probably correct, but I see the defense breaking down like this:

DE - 4 - Wynn, Daniels, Evans, Warner
DT - 4 - Griffin, Salavea'a, Noble, Boschetti
LB - 9 - Arrington, Washington, Marshall, Chris Clemons, Holdman, McCune, Clifton Smith, Khary Campbell [b]Brian Allen/Jared Newberry/[/b]
S - 4 - Taylor, Bowen, Prioleau,[b]Clark/Lott/Dixon[/b]
CB - 4 - Springs, Harris, Rogers [b]Jimoh/Rufus Brown/Wilds[/b]
Total Defensive Roster Spots - 25

In the DB battles I see emphasis being given to ST ability which would favor Ade and Lott. Also, if one of the bubble Safeties can serve as a 4th or 5th corner that would work to their favor also. I think when you get down to the 4th and/or 5th stringers (offense or defense) it will Danny Smith's call so some of these battles may be across positions (i.e. Sellers v. Campbell or Cartwright v. Wilds, etc).

My guess is that R. Brown, Lott, Wilds and Dixon will be gone. Of these the only one I would miss is Wilds in that I think he may just need some time to develop - The staff seemed pretty high on him last year. But the numbers may just crunch him out.

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

You think they'd get rid of that many???

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

What about Artrell Hawkins?

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

Was he the one they was on the team for like two days? Or was that someone else?

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Was he the one they was on the team for like two days? Or was that someone else?[/QUOTE]
That was Cory Hall I think, but about moving Cartwright, I think that Sellers maybe safe only because of how the coaching staff likes him on special teams. I agree that he made bone headed plays at times, but if Portis gets hurt who do we use to give Betts a break during games? I think that we will have 3 RB's or at least a RB on the practice squad...

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]What about Artrell Hawkins?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]You think they'd get rid of that many????[/QUOTE]

They may be able to stash Wilds and/or Brown on the practice roster, but yes - I don't see them keeping more then 8 DB's on the main roster. If they keep only 8, then a lot of guys will be cut [or mysteriously injured so that they can try again next year - Odds on Ade getting a "high ankle sprain" in the last week of camp?].

We just have a glut of [presumably] capable players at the DB positions. While the same could be said about H-back and LB, it seems to me that, because of the versatility inherent in both those positions, the DB's will be the position that gets shorted. If you keep 10 DB's, where you gonna find two more spots? Rather keep 3 each of solid S's and CB's and have a couple of DB's that can do double duty as CB/S (and if they can play special teams, all the better).

Again, those back end LB's are either A) developmental players like Chris Clemons, McCune, Jared Newberry, Clifton Smith or B) special teamers like Khary Campbell. Of the LB's originally listed, I think the only sure cut is Brian Allen and possibly Newberry. (Campbell is one of those probably competing out of position against folks like Ade or Sellers)

As for Hawkins, doesn't he play safety also? or is he a pure CB. If the former, he will probably make the team creating a real log jam for the eighth (assuming Taylor, Bowen, Prioleau, Springs, Harris, Rogers are locks) or possibly ninth spot (assuming one less H-Back, O-Line or LB spot).

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

I dunno, I can't see Gregg Williams letting Garnell Wilds go. He's the 4th coverage guy on the team behind Rogers. Remember, he did quite well against Moss last year, and given that Rogers has a foot problem I can't see Williams letting him go.

We had Springs, Smoot and Harris last year, and we still needed to play a 4th cover corner against the Vikings. Guys get hurt, so I think Williams will be prepared for that.

I think Gregg Williams' need for strong corners on D trumps any concerns about special teams. When listing priorities, not to downplay the importance of special teams because it is important, but in our scheme having that 4th cover guy is more important.

The only way Wilds gets let go in my opinion, is if GW is comfortable with having one of the safeties be the 4th corner. He really likes roster flexibility, so if he finds a safety he feels comfortable using as a cover guy, then maybe Wilds becomes expendable. But do we have anybody like that? I gotta wonder if the Lotts, Clarks, Bowens, or Prioleaus can fill that role.

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]I dunno, I can't see Gregg Williams letting Garnell Wilds go. He's the 4th coverage guy on the team behind Rogers. Remember, he did quite well against Moss last year, and given that Rogers has a foot problem I can't see Williams letting him go.

I think Gregg Williams' need for strong corners on D trumps any concerns about special teams. When listing priorities, not to downplay the importance of special teams because it is important, but in our scheme having that 4th cover guy is more important.

The only way Wilds gets let go in my opinion, is if GW is comfortable with having one of the safeties be the 4th corner. [/QUOTE]

I hear you on the Wilds issue. I agree - Williams likes him and I think he has a good shot at the team. BUT, like I said earlier, I think he may get lost in a numbers crunch.

After thinking about it some more I came up with my own adaption of your chart:

QB: 3 - Ramsey, Brunell, Campbell
WR: 4 - Moss, Jacobs, Patten, [B]McCants/Dyson[/B]
TB: 2 - Portis, Betts
FB: 1 - Broughton
HB/TE: 3 - Cooley, Royal, White
O Line: 5 - Jansen, Thomas, Rabach, Dockery, Samuels
O Line Back Ups: 3 - Ray Brown; (For 2 spots): [B]Molinaro/Wilson/Friedman[/B]
CUT: Raymer
TOTAL OFFENSIVE ROSTER SPOTS – 21

DE: 2 - Wynn, Daniels,
DT: 3 - Griffin, Salavea'a, Noble
DL Back Ups: 2- [B]Evans/Warner/Boschetti[/B]
LB: 5 - Arrington, Washington, Marshall, Holdman, McCune
S: 3 - Taylor, Bowen, Prioleau (ST)
CB: 3 - Springs, Harris, Rogers
Back-Up DB's: 2 - [B]Lott/Dixon/Clark/Hawkins[/B]

TOTAL DEFENSIVE ROSTER SPOTS – 20

Specialists: 3 - Tupa, Albright, Hall/Chandler
Special Teams (Locks): 3 - Jimoh (CB), Thrash (WR), Brown (WR)
Special Teams (For 6 Spots): - [B]Allen (LB)/ Newberry (LB)/ Campbell (LB)/ Sellers (HB/TE)/ Cartwright (TB)/ Wilds (CB) /Brown (CB)/ Clemons LB)/ C. Smith (LB)[/B]

TOTAL SPECIAL TEAMS SPOTS – 12

For those guys not listed in the Special Teams battle (i.e. McCants/Dyson), I suspect that if they don't win their position battle they will not make the team.

For those listed in the Special Teams battle, I suspect that they make the team regardless of their position IF they outplay others for an ST slot. Otherwise they will need to significantly outplay people at their position to make the team.

Priealou is a bit of a special case as he was signed specifically for Special Teams but is also an experienced starting safety - because of his versatility I see him as a lock.

Also, I think you're right Schneed - Wilds is probably in the mix both as a special teamer and back-up DB. But if one of the back-up DB's can fill the S/CB role, than Wilds only chance of making the team is to be a big special teams contributor. If that is true, he kinda becomes Ade Jimoh, Jr.

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

i think wilds, and lott (if healthy) are lock ups. i wouldnt be suprised to see good ol' bowen gone. dare i say this is the year ade goes??? And what about ryan clark? his durability last year, and a year in williams defense shoudl give him a leg up, maybe practice squad?
i really believe that lott will stay because of his versatility, can play safety or corner with ease.
what do you guys think of the hammer??? will Mcune make the team?

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

probably.
what about him?
yup.
I like him
yes.

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

As far as our defense goes, I understand what you guys are talking about that Williams likes a lot of LBs since they play a huge role in his schemes. However, I think that DBs are the most important part of our D. Without great coverage downfield, GW would not be able to blitz our LBs and develop all the creative plays in his playbook. Since we really dont have that elite pass rusher on the D-line, we need our corners and safetys to cover opposing receivers for a long period of time (which happened a lot last year when we got sacks after 5 or 6 seconds). Not only are DBs important in terms of being able to cover receivers, but GW loves blitzing them as well. Remember, Springs led our team in sacks and Bowen picked up 2 in his only game played. Basically what I'm trying to say is that I could see us keeping 9 or 10 backs and maybe 6 LBs or so (our LB corps is very deep so the 6 that make it will be more than capable) as opposed to 8 DBs and 9 or 10 LBs.

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

I agree with vishskins. Secondary is primary in this case. Smart athletic linebackers are important, but, we did have 2 backups playing in the linebacker slots all year last year and did great. If we were to have to resort to backups at the linebacker positions... no big deal... we just keep the best 8 we got that will contribute on STs as well. If we have a breakdown in our secondary we will be seeing a lot more games lost and the defense will deteriorate. Centerfield safety, nickel, linebacker blitzes, secondary blitzes, and even defensive line stunts rely on a talented secondary and we do go up against teams with great recievers.

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

MLB is the hot spot and I see McCants fighting for a backup WR spot........along with Dyson..

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

Well, we can scratch Lott from the list, but add Stoutmire. I wonder if he will stick? He was a beast a couple of years ago.

Re: 53 Man Roster and Training Camp Battles
 

If he stays healthy I think he will be a solid adittion do add depth to our safeties. I'd like to see bowen stay healthy, but that hasn't happened in a couple of years, so having a starter backing up your starter isn't a bad way to go. I just don't see how we can afford it. I know the guy's not Steve Attwater or anything, but he's been proven to be a pretty solid starter, and in the right system (GW's) i think he could really shine.