Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

Man, isn't it obvious??? would we be paying ANY dead money right now, if Charlie Casserly was scouting for us? think about it, the ONE person who Gibbs would have listened to about NOT getting Brunell would have been ol' Charley. Deion, Jeff George, Barrow, Bruce Smith, none of these old timers would be embittering our lives as Redskins fans, and hurting our cap to this day. could we have kept Pierce? Smoot? no, we still gotta pay who??

What he's done with the Texans is pretty remarkable i'd say, considering the expansion, and we should never forget he handpicked Gibbs' heyday teams.

we've been lucky on defense, where our mad doctor Gregg Williams uses the player's anonymity as a weapon, but our air game has been nothing but question marks for years. I think Snyder's final lesson as an owner is to dump Cerrato and make Charlie Casserly the next big name aquisition.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

Isn't this an offseason debate?

Why are we back on this GM thing?

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

well not just any GM, but Casserly in particular. the outcome of this season will have major repurcussions up top, to the coaching staff. and short of Gibbs himself, an established GM is the only thing Snyder hasn't tried.

right..it's PRE-season now, but so far, all we've been seeing is how uneven the passing game still is. whats left to do?

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

Are you saying we havten't been successful because of lack of talent? I don't know if I'd be that brazen. I think to this point its been more of a lack of chemistry between players and other players/ and players and coaching/management. Cerrato has been great in the drafts so far, and was the only reason we didnt completely ruin ourselves under spurrier. It was him that was standing up to Spurrier on keeping good DB's and paying them, instead of overpaying for college level offensive talent.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

The amount of dead money on our cap right now is reflective of mistakes that happened in the [b]past[/b]. The key thing is, these [b]past [/b]GM decisions were made by Spurrier, Snyder, and Schottenheimer.

The person making the decisions now is Gibbs, and hence I think we can expect the dead money situation to improve in coming seasons. Sure, he has the occasional mistake of Mark Brunell - though after seeing his arm the other night, maybe he's still useful - but let's still consider Brunell a mistake just for the sake of argument:

Coach Gibbs Acquisitions:
Sean Taylor - Hit
Chris Cooley - Hit
Cornelius Griffin - Hit
Shawn Springs - Hit
Walt Harris - Hit
Joe Salavea'a - Hit
Philip Daniels - Neither hit or miss (has been hurt, but doesn't cost much)
Clinton Portis - Hit
Mark Brunell - Miss so far
Mike Barrow - Miss, but costs little

We'll See about:
Carlos Rogers
Jason Campbell
Casey Rabach
Santana Moss
David Patten

Guys Gibbs Traded Away or Let Go:
Champ Bailey - Denver sure didn't get their money's worth last year. Tatum Bell, the guy drafted with that 2nd pick we gave them, isn't even cracking the starting lineup. Mike Anderson has been named the starter.

Laveraneus Coles - we'll see, but I don't like his chances with the busted toe.

Fred Smoot - we'll see - considered inconsequential if Rogers and Harris pan out.

Antonio Pierce - we'll see, considered inconsequential if Lemar Marshall or any other MLB pans out.

If you're going to cry about the dead money we have on the cap now, then all you're doing is crying about the mistakes Spurrier and Snyder made [b]in the past[/b]. I wouldn't change the Coach Gibbs system because of GM problems before he got here. Gibbs is the solution, not the problem.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

Right on - then we would have .... Heath Schuler, Mike Westbrook or Tom Carter and at the same time get rid of we could get rid of Trent Green, Rich Gannon or Frank Wychek....that is real great GM stuff there

I think I will stand with what we have done over the last 3 years....take a look :) [URL=http://www.redskins.com/team/history-draft.jsp]Draft History[/URL]

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

Illdefined,
Great post, regardless of the timing. Anytime is fine to talk about our GM's.
It is not a coincidence that we have not had a winning team or season since Casserly left. I think Snyder wants to keep a hand in the GM-ship of the team because of his ego. He wants to be a major factor in the turn aorund of the team. I do not think he can take a back seat to a real GM. He has only taken a back seat to HOF Gibbs.
It would probably take a big nake like Casserly or Beathard to keep Snyder in the owners box quiet and signing checks. I am not sure Snyder can do it.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]What he's done with the Texans is pretty remarkable i'd say, considering the expansion, and we should never forget he handpicked Gibbs' heyday teams. [/QUOTE]

Well, I'd say Casserley and Capers' time is running out in Houston this season. If they're not in the playoffs or at least making a serious run of it, don't be surprised if there's talk of a regime change next year.

If so, I'd like to see Dan Snyder on his hands and knees begging Charley to come back.

Actually it was Bobby Beathard picking the teams back in the heyday. Casserly didn't take over until around the '89 season.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

I agree that talent is not our main problem right now.

What the main problems have been the last few years is the constant roster and coaching staff turnover.

It's nearly impossible to build any consistency when the roster is constantly being overhauled and a new staff and system is being put in place every other year.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

Casserly put together the 92 super bowl team.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

Gibbs is cleaning up the operation, without a doubt, but i'm just hoping he finally convinces Snyder to get a GM to temper BOTH him and Snyderatto. as the last bit of cleanup.

we'll be paying good money for Brunell for years, and at 34, how many surprises could he really have?

that said, the draft situation has been good. it's the whole free agent thing that still needs a lot of work.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

If Gibbs wanted a GM, he'd have one. I don't think there would be much convincing of Snyder involved. Here's how the process would go.

Gibbs: Hey Danny I'm hiring a GM.

Snyder: Here's a blank check, Joe.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

i'm sure Gibbs himself would be the most ecstatic to have Bobby OR Charley back.

I agree it was the constant turnover that effectively put our team in the blender and we're just getting back to stable, but thats squarely on Snyderatto playing Owner/GM.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

Our front office has gotten better every year. The last three years I think we have done as well as anyone. BTW I am in favor of the message Gibbs sent to cole..."screw the $$ We want folks who want to be here". That will be worth the money later on

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

i don't know, Gibbs loves and absolutely relies on good help. and he's never had the kind of god complex that would make him want to handle every part of the team of himself, especially at this time in his life.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

How long has Casserly been in Houston now? 5-6 years??
They haven't even made the playoffs. Of course neither have the Redskins, so it's a wash. I like our chances a lot more than those of the Texans.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

[quote]Coach Gibbs Acquisitions:
Sean Taylor - Hit
Chris Cooley - Hit
Cornelius Griffin - Hit
Shawn Springs - Hit
Walt Harris - Hit
Joe Salavea'a - Hit
Philip Daniels - Neither hit or miss (has been hurt, but doesn't cost much)
Clinton Portis - Hit
Mark Brunell - Miss so far
Mike Barrow - Miss, but costs little

We'll See about:
Carlos Rogers
Jason Campbell
Casey Rabach
Santana Moss
David Patten
[/quote]
I was under the impression that Gibbs conceeded all defensive acquisitions to Williams. If I remember correctly Gibbs wanted KWII but Williams pleaded for Taylor. Of all of those people you mentioned Gibbs got the offensive guys.

Drafted the nations leading TE in yards (Not a huge reach), Got Clinton Portis (A Denver stud who had a down year, by his standards, in Gibbs system), and Mark Brunell, an obvious miss.

I don't think it's fair to call him a good talent evaluator in the least if it's true that Williams picks his defensive guys. Cooley was a great TE in college and Portis was a proven pro. We'll see about the other pickups from this year.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

Also remember Charley had no caps back then and when he joined the Texans he had extra cap space as a new team. He also did not have any dead money because the team was new. All other teams have had to deal with dead money. Yes, we have had more than our fair share but I feel that Danny Boy is learning from those mistakes. Our biggest problem is the size of our contracts that realy hurt us. Bruce Smith was not a bad pick-up it was just a bad contract we gave him that hurt us.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

I doubt Gibbs has no input in the process of selecting defensive players.

He may defer to Williams in ultimately making the selection, but I'm sure Gibbs is actively involved along the way as far as evaluating talent goes.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

Maybe you will remember a dude name Bobby Bethard. He is the architect of most of those teams. Not that Charlie Casserly did not play a big part. However, Houston had better produce a playoff birth at the least or the coach is history. Their "expansion" is long over, and it's time to produce some winning seasons. When you look at the hit/miss list, Gibb's has done a pretty impressive job. Before we convict him of more atrocoties in the 2005 season, perhaps we should allow them to play it?

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]I was under the impression that Gibbs conceeded all defensive acquisitions to Williams. If I remember correctly Gibbs wanted KWII but Williams pleaded for Taylor. Of all of those people you mentioned Gibbs got the offensive guys.

Drafted the nations leading TE in yards (Not a huge reach), Got Clinton Portis (A Denver stud who had a down year, by his standards, in Gibbs system), and Mark Brunell, an obvious miss.

I don't think it's fair to call him a good talent evaluator in the least if it's true that Williams picks his defensive guys. Cooley was a great TE in college and Portis was a proven pro. We'll see about the other pickups from this year.[/QUOTE]

Daseal, whether you're giving the credit to Gibbs or Williams is splitting hairs. No matter which one of them get's the credit, the bottom line is together they have made good player-personnel decisions, and a GM isn't needed to help out.

Would you want a GM making decisions on defensive players after the record Gregg Williams posted last year? I'd take Gregg Williams over Charley Casserly any day when it comes to evaluating who to put in a Gregg Williams defense.

If you get Charley to help with just offense, fine, that makes sense to me, but only because Casserly is good. I wouldn't go adding just any old GM to the mix.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

think it's clear the villain here has been Danny/Vinny and we're asking Gibbs to get more help helping themselves.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

Casserley is the most overrated GM ever. Just look at the texans, where he had done a horrible job. Bethard was the reason for the skins success not Casserley.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

[QUOTE=Hog1]Maybe you will remember a dude name Bobby Bethard. He is the architect of most of those teams. Not that Charlie Casserly did not play a big part. However, Houston had better produce a playoff birth at the least or the coach is history. Their "expansion" is long over, and it's time to produce some winning seasons. When you look at the hit/miss list, Gibb's has done a pretty impressive job. Before we convict him of more atrocoties in the 2005 season, perhaps we should allow them to play it?[/QUOTE]


Yep, you are right. I always thought Casserly was horrible, it was Bobby Bethard who helped build the championship teams. Casserly had some really lousy drafts and free agent signings.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

I think Ron Wolf is still drinking beer and fishing isn't he? He might cost a little money, but who hasn't in this organization?

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

[QUOTE=Sociofan]I think Ron Wolf is still drinking beer and fishing isn't he? He might cost a little money, but who hasn't in this organization?[/QUOTE]

Also, he lives just 20 minutes away from FedEx. He'd be great, my top choice IF we were in need of a GM. But I think we're fine with what we have.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

[QUOTE=skins009]Casserley is the most overrated GM ever. Just look at the texans, where he had done a horrible job. Beathard was the reason for the skins success not Casserley.[/QUOTE]


Thank you 009, Casserley is nothing special, Bethard built our SB teams period, casserley came in riding Beathards coat tail's, remember it was Casserley as GM who gave up 2 #1's to draft 1 Desmond Howard. When at the time I might add we needed defensive line help.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

And let's not forget that great deal Cass made with Mike Ditka............

And let's not forget SNYDER'S "lowest" moment, when he insisted on having the Redskins sign Neon Deon Sanders :rolleyes: cant blame that one on Vince, that was Snyder all the way.

Remember, the Texans are an expansion team and had to start from scratch. Not an easy job in view of free agency and players demanding higher and higher contracts, and salary cap to worry about. Cass needs more time, still some personnel he needs to add, but living here in Texas, no patience, fans in Houston getting restless.........and blaming the whole thing on their QB Carr......it's not his fault.......no O line.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

championship teams are built on good draft depth.

what makes good draft depth:
lots of picks and the majority of those picks making an impact in some way.

we have been killing ourselves the last few years and its showing.

i understand we cant sign all our players but jesus sign a few atleast.

Someone mentioned that loosing smoot didnt cost us, it did, we had to use a 9th overall pick to HOPEFULLY replace him.

all the picks to the jets a few years ago is costing us. we still havent received any value from all those picks(hall is a kicker and has missed too much time, morton cut, coles gone, moss for coles i guess we will see).
giving away a 2nd round pick for the champ portis trade was stupid. spending 2 1st round picks on a QB in 4 years...

we are filling the same holes with draft picks every year. first round pick for gardner, then another first acouple of years later for another 1st which was traded for another wr. ramsey with a first, then campbell. what did all that get us? an injury prone but explosive wr and a shellshocked QB. campbell wont see playing time this year. dont kid yourself, saint gibbs will let brunell play before campbell.

now the texans on the other hand, the last couple of drafts have produced great players. carr is better than ramsey, but still some questions. dominik davis was rookie of the year and a steal later in the draft. andre johnson has already made the probowl. dunta robinson will make the probowl this year.

Re: Gibbs is back. But Casserley isn't. That's what's missing.
 

Gibbs having a year to get used to coaching and his players is whats missing. But not anymore. Let this season show us all the real qualities of our coaches picks.