Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

I just wanted to know what skins fans thoughts on our qb situation is. i think ramsey's performance vs. the bears disappointed a lot of fans, while brunell did fairly good. we've been hearing talk about this for quite a while, but i believe we should have faith in ramsey, and let him keep the starting job. brunell is good, but we have to be fair to ramsey. also, what do you think about the refs not calling a penalty when briggs clotheslined ramsey. i think that should've been an unneccessary roughness penalty, or something because that wasn't a legal hit.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

Give Ramsey another start.. I think we saw more of the same from Brunell.. Dink and dunk, 8 completions for 70 yds? The one deep ball he threw floated up there and if it weren't for the penalty it was picked.. Let's see what we have in Ramsey and then go to Brunell if neccessary..

Gibbs isn't doing Ramsey any favors though by waffling.. All he needed to say, if he supports Ramsey, is 'Patrick is our starter if he's healthy.'

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

Just saw the replay again on ESPN of the shot on Ramsey, holy crap why wasn't that a penalty?? He hit him very high and practically ripped his head off. Should have been an easy call.

The league had better bring down a fine.

And oh yeah, nice highlight package from ESPN, they didn't show the big run by Portis or the big catch by Moss. Thanks ESPN.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

As for the QB debate, Ramsey didn't do anything to lose the job. If he's ready and able he should continue to be the starter.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

i'm sure our highlight package consisted of the pick thrown by ramsey, the pick thrown by brunell, that was called back, whatever or whoever fumbled the ball, and that's it. i think this will open some eyes around the league about how much our d can dominate.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]As for the QB debate, Ramsey didn't do anything to lose the job. If he's ready and able he should continue to be the starter.[/QUOTE]

My sentiments exactly. I try not to use hyperbole to support my opinions and analysis. I'm not going to say Ramsey was awful or great. Nor will I say that Brunell was awful or great. As I see it, Ramsey is an inconsistent but talented young quarterback while Brunell is consistent and smart, but probably will not give us an explosive, or high-scoring, offense.

Simply due to their respective ages, I prefer to see Ramsey under center. However, if Ramsey suffered an injury that warrants a cautious approach, I wouldn't be livid if Gibbs put Brunell in.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

There is NO way our offense has the same spark when Brunell is in there, compared to Ramsey. Brunell is a good backup, he was CAPABLE today. Ramsey had some great zip on the ball. After his initial mistake, the int, he was pretty damn good. When a qb is amped up, he tends to put the ball high. That happened to PR today and he got picked. In my mind, PR should have went back into that ball game as soon as he was cleared.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

gotta give ramsey the start next week. ramsey looked pretty good after his int. wasn't it ramsey who threw the td to cooley that was called back. ramsey also showed some maturity by tucking the ball down and running for a yard or two instead of trying to force a throw in the red zone

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy]There is NO way our offense has the same spark when Brunell is in there, compared to Ramsey. Brunell is a good backup, he was CAPABLE today. Ramsey had some great zip on the ball. After his initial mistake, the int, he was pretty damn good. When a qb is amped up, he tends to put the ball high. That happened to PR today and he got picked. In my mind, PR should have went back into that ball game as soon as he was cleared.[/QUOTE]

I'm just going to play a little devil's advocate. While Brunell doesn't give our offense a spark, he also doesn't usually make a lot of bad decisions. Ramsey gives us a spark and then will quash it with a bad throw. Ultimately I think Ramsey should start, but the answer to the QB debate isn't totally clear-cut.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

I was very disappointed in Gibbs' comment when asked if Ramsey would start next week. It should have been a definite "yes, if he's healthy". Instead, Gibbs waffled and it sent a very bad message to Ramsey and to the team. This coaching staff needs to stand by the QB or else Gibbs' word means nothing. I think Gibbs is looking for any opportunity at all to bench Ramsey in favor of his "boy" Brunell and Ramsey and the rest of the team know it.

Gibbs is not doing anyone any favors by his "damning with faint praise" approach to Ramsey.

Very, very disappointed in Gibbs and how he has handled the whole situation with Ramsey.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

As I've said in other threads, there isn't a clear-cut answer to the Ramsey-Brunell debate. However, I would like to see Gibbs give the same support for Ramsey that he gave Brunell last year. It does make me wonder a bit when Gibbs seems ready to yank Ramsey and plug in Brunell at the first opportunity.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

gibbs just does not like ramsey, i think that is obvious

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

Ramseyfan, you're right when you said Ramsey is owed the same amount of confidence that Gibbs gave to Brunell last year. He kept Brunell in at least 3 games too many, as we slowly watched our season slide away with Brunell's less than average play at quarterback.

It amazes me how Gibbs is letting Ramsey just "dangle in the wind". To his credit, Ramsey is a class act and has not publicly said anything about how he has been treated this year.

I've always thought the world of Joe Gibbs, but his shameful treatment of Ramsey has me rethinking my opinion of him. It's because of Gibbs that we already have a QB controversy and we've only played one game!!!!!

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

Ramesy was what 6-11 for 105 yrds in 1 1/2 qtrs. Brunnell was 8-14 for 70ish on 2 1/2 qtrs. What are we debating this for? PR had 1 pick early on then settled down and moved the team pretty well. I think Gibbs is looking for any reason to bench Patrick. PR should have come in at the start of the second half, he was cleared to play. Brunnel looked good in the preseaon but he played 2nd half when the scrubs played. I think we need to remember that this is what PR's 17th career start and a lot of those he got shelled when Spurrier was here. Gibbs needs to declare PR his QB or let him get out b/c he is going to be a good QB in the NFL if he is given the chance and not looking over his shoulder. This is not a Super Bpwl team this year so let PR get his snaps and build some confidence and rapport with the team. And let Brunnel (Scott?) be a quality backup if Ramsey is injured.
I would like to now why Gibbs has so much loyalty to Brunnel and none to Ramsey. Both are devoted Christians. It must be the AARP membership club thing.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

I think the ones making this a QB controversy are some of the fans and the media.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

Hi all...back after a long hiatus, though have stealthily visited the site from time to time without posting. Nice to get a win, and good to see the O-line be able to produce a number of smashmouth running plays, and a few long pass plays against a tough and stingy defense. Much better blitz pickup ability than last year.

Never thought I'd be saying this after the way Brunell stunk up the joint last year, but this year, he looks like a different QB.

Right now, MB gives us the best chance to win. Ramsey is too inconsistent, slow to make decisions, and turnover prone. In a little over a quarter of action, Ramsey threw an INT and fumbled twice (one of which was a turnover after he got leveled). Both fumbles were caused by him not getting rid of the ball fast enough. He has become too predictable for opposing defenses - they all know that blitzing him often will force him into poor decisions and lead to turnovers. I shudder to think of what Dallas will do to us next week with Ramsey at QB.

While, I'm at it, another fumble or key drop by Antonio Brown, and he should be cut. Starting players because they have great potential (cannon armstrength or blazing speed) is useless if those players are turnover prone.

If Gibbs decides to start PR next week, he should be on a tight leash - win the game for us against the Cowboys, or Brunell starts - of course, Ramsey shouldn't be threatened with this, since we all know how that could be disastrous for his psyche. However, if he can't put up decent points against Dallas like, say Drew Brees did today, Gibbs should announce Brunell the starter the following week. I'm sick of hearing about Ramsey's potential without him producing tangible, consistent results.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

Gibbs does not like Ramsey. He thinks Ramsey turns the ball over too much. Gibbs would rather roll the dice with Brunell who can't throw the ball downfield. What happened to the zip he had in preseason?

I find myself torn between pulling for the Skins and pulling against Brunell.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

Ramsey getting injured gave Gibbs the easy way out. Brunell is his guy. I think he figures if his QB doesn't make mistakes, then between Portis and the D, that should keep things close and we can win/lose on late field goals. With Ramsey there is the risk of a three int, two fumble game in Gibbs' mind. Even with our defense that would be tough to overcome. Even the best defense in the league has a tough time when given a short field (like today after Brown's fumble).

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

Been reading the posts on this board for a couple months now and enjoy it very much.Ive been a redskins fan for manny many years.I live in CT. so i get alot of info on the team from the WARPATH.You guys r doing a great job!!!!! I think joe gibbs is a god after all he won 3 superbowls with 3 different QB's.I also think he wants ramsey to run the team but ramsey isnt showing him anything to have cofidence in him.The real problem is Brunnel isnt either and gibbs is the 1 who went and got him.I am glad we won today, but it looks like nothing has changed.I am having a hard time understanding why we cant score points.Barring an injury,I guess the bottom line is gibbs has to settle this QB situation now and stick with him no matter what happens.There is too much talent on this offense NOT to be able to score points.In my opinion it should be Ramsey

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

Not sure why people are having a hard time realizing we were up against a tough defense...

As matter of fact...The Bears were pretty much a mirror image of us...

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

Give Ramsey a chance and have faith, he still may be the Quarterback of the future! :) -If you don't believe, we won't achieve.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

That is true,it was a formidable bears defense.But we didnt play defenses like that every game last year or in the preseason this year.Dont get me wrong a win is a win no matter how many points you score,but that will catch up to you eventually.We wittnessed that last year.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]As I've said in other threads, there isn't a clear-cut answer to the Ramsey-Brunell debate. However, I would like to see Gibbs give the same support for Ramsey that he gave Brunell last year. It does make me wonder a bit when Gibbs seems ready to yank Ramsey and plug in Brunell at the first opportunity.[/QUOTE]

I have reached the conclusion that no matter what Gibbs is going to go for Brunell, period. Brunell was his hand picked choice, Gibbs cannot seem to get over the fact that he made a mistake with Brunell. The Skins only competed with themselves for Brunell, if they had waited he would have been cut by Jacksonville and could have been picked up as a bargain. Instead we have a lot of money sunk into a 'back-up'.

At this stage I wish Ramsey well and hope he can find another team after this season or when his contract expires, most likely he will be like Trent Green, all over again. I agree with the point stated in your post, it is beyond me why Gibbs is so quick to pull the trigger on Ramsey, whereas Brunell is always given the benefit of the doubt. I am just sick of "two yard bombs" , not hitting WRs in stride, nor looking off the DBs, all of the handmarks of Brunell. Funny, but Marty Shottenheimer does not looks so conservative compared to Gibbs, who would have thought that Marty Ball would be wide open, compared to Gibbs.

Of course someone will most likely reply we won, the Chargers lost, but the Chargers almost came back to win by taking chances. If the Redskins continue to play it conservative and play not to loose, instead of playing to win, they will in my opinion, loose. Like I said in an earlier post with Brunell it is the movie Ground Hog Day, same sorry passing offense.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

In addition, Ramsey wore out their defense and played pretty well for the most part with the exception of the single interception, which still luckily did not hurt us (he still has to cut those out). But for the fans to boo him for one mistake in the first quarter and be begging for him to start last year, what kind of fairweather fans are we. Why don't we give him a shot, and if he doesn't work out then so be it but if we continue to create a quarterback controversy we will never know how good he could be. Do we want him to go to another team like Trent Green and Rich Gannon, two quarterbacks that were virtually journeymen before they were finally given a chance and became Pro ball level and MVP of the league (respectively) level quarterbacks. Where is our faith as fans. If the Redskins do not achieve any consistency how can we ever expect the Redskins to achieve their potential under Gibbs (or anyone for that matter).

No continuity = no consistency = poor record

Have a little faith please!!!!!

Ramsey needs that chance from the fans as well, did you hear Moose Johnston today, he thought that Ramsey has a real opportunity for a break out season this year. Maybe a few more endorcements will give our quarterback the confidence he needs. Possibly enough confidence so that there will not be a quarterback controversy.

Go Redskins!
(1-0) 9-7 defeat of the Bears Week 1

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

[QUOTE=hurrykaine] <SNIP>

Right now, MB gives us the best chance to win. Ramsey is too inconsistent, slow to make decisions, and turnover prone. In a little over a quarter of action, Ramsey threw an INT and fumbled twice (one of which was a turnover after he got leveled). Both fumbles were caused by him not getting rid of the ball fast enough. He has become too predictable for opposing defenses - they all know that blitzing him often will force him into poor decisions and lead to turnovers. I shudder to think of what Dallas will do to us next week with Ramsey at QB.

<SNIP>[/QUOTE]

Two fumbles...from the box scores that I looked at and the Washington Post, there were [b]three[/b] turnovers. A Ramsey INT, the fumble from the clothes line, and Antonio Brown's fumble. In my opinion that ball Brunell threw was a pick, the Zebras, after the phantom call on Cooley and missing the clothesline had to give one back, thus the interference call.

In all a horrible throw by Brunell, yet Brunell is not blasted by the fans. Ramsey has potential, Brunell does not, he won't make the mistake, there is no upside to Brunell. Of course Brunell not making the mistake also means he won't take the risk, the types of risks that are necessary to win a game or stage a comeback.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

[QUOTE=DirtBagZ]Two fumbles...from the box scores that I looked at and the Washington Post, there were [b]three[/b] turnovers. A Ramsey INT, the fumble from the clothes line, and Antonio Brown's fumble. In my opinion that ball Brunell threw was a pick, the Zebras, after the phantom call on Cooley and missing the clothesline had to give one back, thus the interference call.

In all a horrible throw by Brunell, yet Brunell is not blasted by the fans. Ramsey has potential, Brunell does not, he won't make the mistake, there is no upside to Brunell. Of course Brunell not making the mistake also means he won't take the risk, the types of risks that are necessary to win a game or stage a comeback.[/QUOTE]

Moss practically had his jersey ripped off on the play, it was clearly PI, not a return the favor call.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

Sorry Dirtbagz,

The pass interference call was a damn good, and even obvious one. Santana Moss' jersey was hanging over his shoulder pads because he had been held up in running his route by a DB. Go watch the game tape and I'm sure that you will see what I am talking about.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Sorry Dirtbagz,

The pass interference call was a damn good, and even obvious one. Santana Moss' jersey was hanging over his shoulder pads because he had been held up in running his route by a DB. Go watch the game tape and I'm sure that you will see what I am talking about.[/QUOTE]

And another thing on that play, if Moss isn't held, I think he goes up and makes that play.

Not a great throw, but still, it would have resulted in a big play.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Sorry Dirtbagz,

The pass interference call was a damn good, and even obvious one. Santana Moss' jersey was hanging over his shoulder pads because he had been held up in running his route by a DB. Go watch the game tape and I'm sure that you will see what I am talking about.[/QUOTE]

The clothesline was pretty obvious yet no call. Brunell the savy vet throws it up for grabs and is bailed out by a call, the Refs could have missed the call just like the clothesline. That is my point about a make up call. Bottom line you don't want your team's chances to hinge on the Zebras.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

If Brunell starts next week, I will officially be pissed. Ramsey did nothing to lose the job and the offense didn't look anywhere near as impotent when he was in...

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

[QUOTE=DirtBagZ]The clothesline was pretty obvious yet no call. Brunell the savy vet throws it up for grabs and is bailed out by a call, the Refs could have missed the call just like the clothesline. That is my point about a make up call. Bottom line you don't want your team's chances to hinge on the Zebras.[/QUOTE]

Trust me, I want Ramsey to start next week. I don't often defend Brunell, but he deserves to be defended when it comes to that interception that was called back. Moss was definately prevented from getting to the spot where he should have been (and where Brunell threw it). I understand and agree with your point that you don't want your team's chances of winning to hinge on a single call. However, we can't fault Brunell for Moss being held and I actually think that throw that was picked (and later called back) was pretty good.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Trust me, I want Ramsey to start next week. I don't often defend Brunell, but he deserves to be defended when it comes to that interception that was called back. Moss was definately prevented from getting to the spot where he should have been (and where Brunell threw it). I understand and agree with your point that you don't want your team's chances of winning to hinge on a single call. However, we can't fault Brunell for Moss being held and I actually think that throw that was picked (and later called back) was pretty good.[/QUOTE]

You are probably right...I just cannot stand having Brunell as the QB. Ultimately his play style of playing not too loose, instead of playing to win will result in the Skins loosing. Watching the Ravens Colts game and there have been several throws were Manning is forcing the ball in, makes one wonder if Gibbs would yank Manning for more of a game manager QB.

I am tired of people calling Ramsey a 'turnover' machine...wonder what these same fans said of a certain other QB whos last name started with an 'R' and for one season was a fumble machine. If you said Mark Rypien, congrats! I cannot remember if fumble machine Rypien was before or after the '91 season when the team was an offensive juggernaut.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy]If Brunell starts next week, I will officially be pissed. Ramsey did nothing to lose the job and the offense didn't look anywhere near as impotent when he was in...[/QUOTE]

Guys, I really like Ramsey and want him to start for us, but some things are obvious. Gibbs made it very clear that he could not and would not allow his QB (or anyone else) to turn the ball over on offense especially in the redzone. In less than 2 quarters of his first chance to prove he could do that, Ramsey throws an int and fumbles twice. One of those fumbles cost us three points.

Now, the one fumble was recovered by us, but that doesn't make me feel any better about Ramsey's pocket presence. The int was just bad. The second fumble should have been given back to us via a penalty, but Ramsey still needs to feel the pass rush and tuck and duck.

First, he doesn't scare anyone so they just pin back thier ears and come after him. Not good considering how many times he loses the ball when he gets hit.

Second, Brunnel can move around in the pocket, aviod the pass rush, seems to have a better arm then last year, and has a grasp on Gibbs offense.

I can see why Gibbs likes Brunnel over Ramsey. Especially with the Skins defense.

Ramsey won the starting job last year and should enjoy some support for a couple of games while he irons things out with his new recievers... but... Gibbs is going to go with whoever he thinks gives the skins the best chance to win. With our defense, I think that is going to be the guy who doesn't turn the ball over.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]Guys, I really like Ramsey and want him to start for us, but some things are obvious. Gibbs made it very clear that he could not and would not allow his QB (or anyone else) to turn the ball over on offense especially in the redzone. In less than 2 quarters of his first chance to prove he could do that, Ramsey throws an int and fumbles twice. One of those fumbles cost us three points.

Now, the one fumble was recovered by us, but that doesn't make me feel any better about Ramsey's pocket presence. The int was just bad. The second fumble should have been given back to us via a penalty, but Ramsey still needs to feel the pass rush and tuck and duck.

First, he doesn't scare anyone so they just pin back thier ears and come after him. Not good considering how many times he loses the ball when he gets hit.

Second, Brunnel can move around in the pocket, aviod the pass rush, seems to have a better arm then last year, and has a grasp on Gibbs offense.

I can see why Gibbs likes Brunnel over Ramsey. Especially with the Skins defense.

Ramsey won the starting job last year and should enjoy some support for a couple of games while he irons things out with his new recievers... but... Gibbs is going to go with whoever he thinks gives the skins the best chance to win. With our defense, I think that is going to be the guy who doesn't turn the ball over.[/QUOTE]

Nice post.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

Plain and simple...outside of the one pick Ramsey looked better at QB today. Admittedly they went super conservative when Brunell came in but Ramsey moved the ball somewhat better and certainly got more secondary respect. I was at the game and could watch the secondary in totallity, they were more on their heels with Ramsey in than Brunell. Overall the offense looked more in sync than most of last year and without the three turnovers the Skins dominated. They ran all over the Bears and were pretty lock down on defense. The red zone execution looked terrible and really was but that is something can hopefully be ironed out with better play calling and more focus on execution. I am concerned about the lack of downfield throwing(sounds familiar) but I think Gibbs really thinks a lot of the defense and against a crappy team like the Bears he just wanted to survive. I think our defense being so good is somewhat of a curse in that it does cause Gibbs to shut down a bit and play to not lose. But it s curse I'd rather have than not.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Nice post.[/QUOTE]

I'll second that, nice to see a level headed post.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

Let's just be happy we have a good back-up this season.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

Sorry guys...cannot be level headed during these Brunell vs. Ramsey threads. Guess I will have to change my name to RamseyFan2...just kidding. Brunell did not loose the game, we won, I should be happy.

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

You just hate to see Ramsey go out like that. He has never really had a normal opportunity. I know everything is circumstancial, but I don't think I've ever seen as much talent stifled by circumstances in my life. (coaching changes, being benched, being killed by defenses, injuries, lack of confidence, and an ever-present qb contraversy)

Re: Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread
 

Ramsey, Brunnell. Brunnell, Ramsey. Ramsey, Brunnell. Brunnell, Ramsey. I like Sonny!