The Twilight Zone
 

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone.

Picture if you will Joe Gibbs, Hall of Fame football coach. As part-owner of the Atlanta Falcons, he decides to re-enter his once chosen profession, and his affiliation with that franchise is more appealing than returning to his storied perch as head coach of the Washington Redskins. Imagine if you will...

"I want to thank you all for coming to this press conference. As a head coach, I've had to make a difficult decision. We had a starting quarterback barely crack 50% passing, he barely threw for over 100 yards, he threw a pick, and fumbled the ball twice. The offense is predicated on mistake-free quarterbacking, and we haven't seen that. Therefore, in week 2, Mike Vick will be the backup, and we're entering the Matt Schaub era."

Creepy, huh?

Here's the thing. We re-designed our offense (allegedly) to take advantage of faster receivers and spread the field for our running back. After 11 pass plays, we have benched the only experienced QB on our roster capable of throwing the ball more than 30 yards downfield without a strong tailwind.

The allure of Joe Gibbs returning goes beyond the Super Bowls. If Mike Shanahan or Jimmy Johnson, both of whom have multiple Super Bowl wins on their resumé, was the new coach of the Redskins last year, the hype would not be nearly what it was. Joe Gibbs represents more than winning - he represents honor. After months of public declarations of (alleged) support, Ramsey's trial came in a kangaroo court. As difficult as it must have been to announce the QB change for Gibbs, I have a feeling the speech had been rehearsed. The notion of Gibbs and honor is now viewed through a prism of what appears to be a designed lie to his players and the team's fans.

The bottom line is that if [u]any[/u] other coach treated his starting QB in this fashion, I would not hesitate to call that coach a scumbag. So, as you can imagine, I'm a little conflicted right now. I hope some enterprising reporter has the temerity to ask the coach about this. I hope Joe Gibbs has the stones to answer truthfully. And I hope I'm wrong.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

Good post Brud -- I'm seething. How far will Gibbs former reputation get him with skins fans. Will we be happy if he goes 6-10 again? What about in year 3.

He's made some questionable calls, and this is moving towards the top of the list.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

I think Brunell can easily throw the ball around 36 yards. Give or take two yards. Maybe this is more of a grounding than a demotion. Maybe Gibbs just sent Ramsey to his room for a while and hopefully we can play mistake free and win a few and when Brunell hurts himself Ramsey will come in and only think about not turning the ball over. That needs to be his sole focus for awhile. Remember Gibbs has done this before.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call the Twilight Zone.

Picture if you will Joe Gibbs, Hall of Fame football coach. As part-owner of the Atlanta Falcons, he decides to re-enter his once chosen profession, and his affiliation with that franchise is more appealing than returning to his storied perch as head coach of the Washington Redskins. Imagine if you will...

"I want to thank you all for coming to this press conference. As a head coach, I've had to make a difficult decision. We had a starting quarterback barely crack 50% passing, he barely threw for over 100 yards, he threw a pick, and fumbled the ball twice. The offense is predicated on mistake-free quarterbacking, and we haven't seen that. Therefore, in week 2, Mike Vick will be the backup, and we're entering the Matt Schaub era."

Creepy, huh?

Here's the thing. We re-designed our offense (allegedly) to take advantage of faster receivers and spread the field for our running back. After 11 pass plays, we have benched the only experienced QB on our roster capable of throwing the ball more than 30 yards downfield without a strong tailwind.

The allure of Joe Gibbs returning goes beyond the Super Bowls. If Mike Shanahan or Jimmy Johnson, both of whom have multiple Super Bowl wins on their resumé, was the new coach of the Redskins last year, the hype would not be nearly what it was. Joe Gibbs represents more than winning - he represents honor. After months of public declarations of (alleged) support, Ramsey's trial came in a kangaroo court. As difficult as it must have been to announce the QB change for Gibbs, I have a feeling the speech had been rehearsed. The notion of Gibbs and honor is now viewed through a prism of what appears to be a designed lie to his players and the team's fans.

The bottom line is that if [u]any[/u] other coach treated his starting QB in this fashion, I would not hesitate to call that coach a scumbag. So, as you can imagine, I'm a little conflicted right now. I hope some enterprising reporter has the temerity to ask the coach about this. I hope Joe Gibbs has the stones to answer truthfully. And I hope I'm wrong.[/QUOTE]

Thats the post bost i've seen in a long time.
Lets remember Brunnel threw for 70 yard in 2 quaters and a half. Thats shit
And don't bring up this preseason crap, that was against people who aren't even on rostors anymore. The fact of the matter is that gibbs and brunnel are both real religous and gibbs loves brunnel, and he's looking for an excuse to put him back in. He is blinded to brunnel's patheticness.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

Ramsey is no Vick, so let's not start comparing the two on equal ground.

As for religion having anything to do with this, that's just silly. Ramsey is also a very religous person, so this argument makes no sense.

Gibbs didn't get into the Hall of Fame by making personel decisions based on a player's religion. To try to make that connection is really reaching.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

Wow BrudLee,

You said is so much more eloquently than I could, but you captured my thoughts exactly. What Gibbs did yesterday shows him to be less than an honorable man - something I never thought I would say about Gibbs.

You're right, this change was something that Gibbs was itching to do all along. Even last year, he had to be dragged kicking and screaming into finally benching Brunell, despite Brunell's sorry, sorry performance through nine, long and horrible games - a stretch of terrible, mediocre play by the QB that totally ruined our season last year.

It is now very apparent that Gibbs' public statements of support for Ramsey were all a sham.

Gibbs, the coach whom I always revered, is a small man in my eyes today.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

Watching the Falcons beat the Eagles last night brought to mind comparisons between the coaches of the Skins and Falcons.

The Falcons have a young coach who commands loyality from his players and fires up the fans. He obviously is having fun and likely will be wearing a Supoer Bowl ring this season or next. The Redskins have a coach who says he's loyal to his players (then sacks them) and pisses off the fans. Gibbs, who has his rings, won't be getting another. Clearly, he wishes he hadn't come back.

The Falcons have a coach who will be at the helm for years, if not decades. The Redskins have a coach who will be gone after two more seasons, or after this season of Brunell sinks him (as I think will happen).

Remember, last year, fans, analysts and columnists said Gibbs' biggest mistakes were paying too much for Brunell and sticking with him for too long. Looks like Gibbs is repeating the same damned mistakes this year. I'd like to think he's smarter than that.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

Just like I said, this move will divide the whole Redskins nation. Yes, we're pissed, but tell me this:

If Brunell takes us to the playoffs are you still going to be upset that he hurt Ramsey's feelings or are you going to be happy we're in the postseason?

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Just like I said, this move will divide the whole Redskins nation. Yes, we're pissed, but tell me this:

If Brunell takes us to the playoffs are you still going to be upset that he hurt Ramsey's feelings or are you going to be happy we're in the postseason?[/QUOTE]

probably not, but you wanna take that bet? cause i'd throw money down on it.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Just like I said, this move will divide the whole Redskins nation. Yes, we're pissed, but tell me this:

If Brunell takes us to the playoffs are you still going to be upset that he hurt Ramsey's feelings or are you going to be happy we're in the postseason?[/QUOTE]

Happy were in the postseason. I dont think anyone is REALLY upset about Ramseys feelings. In my opinion, he got treated like garbage and I dont agree with it, but at the end of the day I want to win football games like everyone else. My beef is that I in no way, shape, or form think that Mark Brunell is a better option for us right now than Patrick Ramsey. If Brunell becomes some great QB, thats fantastic, and I will be 100% happy and freely eat my words. However, I dont think he will.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

People sure have some strong words for a coach who made a QB switch. People are questioning his honor, his integrity and basically crapping on his good name.

It's football folks, it's a game. I think it's a little disgraceful to question a man's integrity when you don't even know him personally. Let's keep things in perspective and try to keep our personal feelings out of the equation.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]People sure have some strong words for a coach who made a QB switch. People are questioning his honor, his integrity and basically crapping on his good name.

It's football folks, it's a game. I think it's a little disgraceful to question a man's integrity when you don't even know him personally. Let's keep things in perspective and try to keep our personal feelings out of the equation.[/QUOTE]

yeah, I just think ramsey gives us the better chance to win, but all the insults and hyperbole are a bit much.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

I'd prefer Ramsey to be playing just like everyone else, but honestly, I think Brunell is servicable as a winning QB.

Now last year, I would have shit my pants if this would have happened, but Brunell has shown that he can still be accurate and manage the game. I'm going to give him his chances. Not only that, it happened and we're just going to have to accept it.

I just hope that Monday night we can see at least 75% of his "old" form, and by that I mean his Jacksonville form.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

His old form has been gone for like 3 years. The Mark Brunell of today played on Sunday. If that's what Joe Gibbs is looking for he can have it.

Maybe I'll convert to the Falcons.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]His old form has been gone for like 3 years. The Mark Brunell of today played on Sunday. If that's what Joe Gibbs is looking for he can have it.

Maybe I'll convert to the Falcons.[/QUOTE]

WOW...did not expect that from any TRUE skins fan. If that is how ya feel, then don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya. As fans we have been through MUCH worse over the past 12 years alone. This is a QB decision (I don't like it either) and clearly was done to send a message to an underperforming player on the team. I think you will see Antonio Brown inactive this week to send a message. This team is not a great team and will never be until they correct the turnovers. How do you correct it? You sit those that can't protect the football and both Ramsey and Brown cannot and have not proven they can do that on a consistent basis.

Kudos to Coach for making this change after thinking about it for the past 12 hours. Maybe it will wake some of these players up that this is a BUSINESS and winning is everything. Turning the ball over an average of three times a game is not going to cut it in the NFL and the message has been sent. :banghead:

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

For the record: The Falcons thing was in jest. I didn't expect it to be taken seriously.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

And to reiterate - Joe Gibbs is a coach that not only experience has taught me to respect, but - until yesterday's press conference - I would have treated his word as something carved in stone.

Eleven passes after his season began, the same man who had [URL=http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=8724]this press conference[/URL] on August 8th saying "...We're expecting Patrick to start. That's what we're geared towards. That's what we planned. That's what I said last year. You're hoping he's going to step up and get better and better as we go..." didn't give his quarterback much of a chance to get going. Now the team that is "geared towards" a strong-armed 26 year old right hander will start a 36 year old left hander who by most objective standards has lost a little off his fastball.

My point is not that the season is lost. Joe Gibbs is a Hall of Fame coach who will do what it takes to win ball games. And it would be amazingly presumptuous of me to say that I know how to win in this league and he doesn't. I would like to know which of his eight completions out of fourteen attempts for seventy yards (boy, those [URL=http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=2485]numbers seem familiar[/URL]...) led him to essentially scrap his announced plans for a revitalized offense - but that's just my personal curiousity.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

Brunell beats the Cow-Whores in Texass Stadium. Everything changes.

If he doesn't the pack of rabid dogs will howl, that'll be a Twilight Zone you don't want to enter.

While we're at it, didn't Favre start at one point in Atlanta? Then get dumped? Hmmmm.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

Brud, Ramsey wasn't benched. He got knocked out of the game by a dubious hit. He'd already thrown an errant pass and dropped 2. Going back in dizzy wouldn't have doen anything except guaranteed us a loss.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]And to reiterate - Joe Gibbs is a coach that not only experience has taught me to respect, but - until yesterday's press conference - I would have treated his word as something carved in stone.

Eleven passes after his season began, the same man who had [url="http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=8724"]this press conference[/url] on August 8th saying "...We're expecting Patrick to start. That's what we're geared towards. That's what we planned. That's what I said last year. You're hoping he's going to step up and get better and better as we go..." didn't give his quarterback much of a chance to get going. Now the team that is "geared towards" a strong-armed 26 year old right hander will start a 36 year old left hander who by most objective standards has lost a little off his fastball.

My point is not that the season is lost. Joe Gibbs is a Hall of Fame coach who will do what it takes to win ball games. And it would be amazingly presumptuous of me to say that I know how to win in this league and he doesn't. I would like to know which of his eight completions out of fourteen attempts for seventy yards (boy, those [url="http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=2485"]numbers seem familiar[/url]...) led him to essentially scrap his announced plans for a revitalized offense - but that's just my personal curiousity.[/QUOTE]Well the best part of his stats from last year his only game over 300 yards passing was against Dallas. Maybe that was the only stat Gibbs was given when making his decision. The reason Brunell does not throw alot of interceptions is its hard to catch a ball bouncing across the field.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

I don't think this is the Twilight Zone at all. I think all of this is relatively clear.

Given a free choice, I believe that Joe Gibbs wants - and wanted last year - to play Mark Brunell at QB over Patrick Ramsey. But Brunell was awful last year and Ramsey did well enough at the end of the season to earn Gibbs' - grudgingly offered - word that Ramsey would be the starting QB this year. But I don't think Joe Gibbs was happy about having to have made that promise and I think he always in his mind had Patrick Ramsey on a VERY short leash.

He never said he would give Ramsey the same time to prove himself unworthy of the starting job as he did for Brunell last year. And since he would have rather had Brunell in there in the first place, why is anyone surprised that the hook came out quickly.

I believe that in September 2005, Mark Brunell is equally competent to lead this team to victory as is Patrick Ramsey. Assuming neither gets hurt during the year, that will probably be my assessment in January 2005. What Ramsey brings to the team is the fact that he MIGHT develop into a better QB and be the leader here for 5 or 7 years into the future. That's not gonna happen with Brunell.

Joe Gibbs did not make some kind of "deal with the devil" here and he does not "speak with forked tongue." He is more concerned with winning games now than he is with positioning the roster to win some as yet unscheduled games in 2008. You don't have to like that or agree with that, but I really think that's about all there is to this brouhaha.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]I just hope that Monday night we can see at least 75% of his "old" form, and by that I mean his Jacksonville form.[/QUOTE]
well he averaged about a 85 qb rating in jacksonville
75% of that is 63....man that just happens to be the same as last year

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

I'm not expecting Brunell to light up the stat sheet on Monday night. Maybe just something like 12 of 17, 110 yards and a TD (and NO TURNOVERS). Even less than that perhaps. The star of the game will be Portis. He is and should be the star of all our games. Brunell is just there to help him shine.

Ramsey has a lot of potential and seems like a good guy, but if being a good guy is what mattered then NY_Skinsfan might as well start at QB and what good is potential if he doesn't realize it? I really wish that Ramsey had done better this preseason. I wish he had gone out there and said "I've been given this job and now I'm going to show all of you why I deserve it." But he didn't, he didn't seal the deal.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

That being said about Brunell he comes into the cowboys game and plays horrible 2 turnovers, 6 points by field goal, 140 yards passing, and a loss, do you think gibbs pulls him because of the turnovers or the ineffective play. I just do not see it happening. Twilight Zone 8 games at that level and Gibbs finally goes to Campbell and another season lost. That also would then from the previous post make gibbs a hypocrite and his players seeing the QB play at that level and be given another long leash will be the downfall. All hypothetical, but I just wonder what Gibbs does?

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

[color=darkorange]He starts Campbell! Yay![/color]

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Ramsey is no Vick, so let's not start comparing the two on equal ground.

As for religion having anything to do with this, that's just silly. Ramsey is also a very religous person, so this argument makes no sense.

Gibbs didn't get into the Hall of Fame by making personel decisions based on a player's religion. To try to make that connection is really reaching.[/QUOTE]

Yep Matty, your right not only Brunell, but Ramsey as well is a professing Christian, as is Gibbs.......I hate it when these people try to put some kind of slanted label/angle when there is none......
James Brown on Fox did the same thing when interviewing Gibbs last year asking him if he went out of his way to sign Brunell because they are both Christians, when Ramsey is a Christian too.....shows you how much the media doesn't research the topics they report/interview on.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

Athletic ability no question on a different level, but as far as mistakes that Vick makes as a passing QB very similar to Ramsey. Very ineffective but definitely a playmaker with his legs and threat to run, so the comparison to Vicks passing ability and Ramsey are very comparible. I think the comparison is that Schaub looked so good in preseason and some of the times he came in and Vick struggled in several games with passing. Gibbs unsure with Vick passing as a QB and benches him for Schaub.

Re: The Twilight Zone
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I'm not expecting Brunell to light up the stat sheet on Monday night. Maybe just something like 12 of 17, 110 yards and a TD (and NO TURNOVERS). Even less than that perhaps. The star of the game will be Portis. He is and should be the star of all our games. Brunell is just there to help him shine.
[/QUOTE]

thats ironic though, cause it doesn't really work... the fast receivers are there to get people out of the box, and having a guy that throws to the closer passsing options and puts up 100 yards a game isn't going to do that, and isn't going to offer portis ANY help. It just going to make portis and the oline have to work even harder.

otoh, ramsey may make the defense work harder ;), but they're a much better unit.