Should We Punt Groom?
 

What have you guys thought of Andy Groom so far? I've been kind of disappointed in him so far actually. But I can't quite pinpoint what exactly it is that's bugging me about him.

I don't think punter is a position we can really afford to overlook. Field position is huge, especially for us since I expect we'll be playing a lot of tight games. So is it worth it to go through the growing pains with him or should we maybe consider looking for a veteran?

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

We have lost the field position game in both contests this year. I don't think Groom has done a horrible job. In fact, I think he has done well given he is a rookie and certainly has not kicked a shankey yet.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

Problem is what else is out there?

He's young, but I think he's worth developing.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

Keep Groom, lets not lose another Akers because we are not patient.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

he gets it high, as seen by most of our coverage, giving them enough time to get downfield hasn't been a big problem... a couple extra yards would be cool though.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

is Tupa on IR?, he's not coming back?

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]is Tupa on IR?, he's not coming back?[/QUOTE]

yes he's on IR

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

You guys are probably right. I guess I just had really high expectations of him that I want to see more out of him. Sort of the same way I feel about Patten. All in due time I suppose

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

After his block on the run-back I think we can at least give him 4-5 more games.

I don't think the Special Teams are playing lights out yet either.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]After his block on the run-back I think we can at least give him 4-5 more games.

I don't think the Special Teams are playing lights out yet either.[/QUOTE]

you talkin about Novak?

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]you talkin about Novak?[/QUOTE]

Er....ah, yes......it's been a confusing start to the week.

At one point I even thought we beat Dallarse in their house on a night they were inducting 3 HOF'ers....and we were 13 - 0 down with less than 4 minutes to go!

I probably just need to lie down.......

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

ha i totally understand. i never quite knew why Punter and Kicker are usually separate guys? it's has to be that specialized??

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]ha i totally understand. i never quite knew why Punter and Kicker are usually separate guys? it's has to be that specialized??[/QUOTE]

Totally agree. In Europe we have a billion people that can kick a ball straight up, with a fade/slice ect playing Rugby (ok, slightly less than a billion) and I never understood why they weren't recruited into the NFL more often.

Has anyone esle seen the kicks in Rugby for the conversions from crazy angles?

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

I dont know what the kid has done wrong. We keep starting on our own 2, and thats just decent punting by the opposition. Then when we cant get anything going on offense, he has to punt from his own 20. I don't think he's been a liability... am I missing something?

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]ha i totally understand. i never quite knew why Punter and Kicker are usually separate guys? it's has to be that specialized??[/QUOTE]

And then you have those teams that have one kicker for field goals and another for kickoffs

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

hes not really booming punts, they arent that far, hes doing average

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

His last punt against Dallas was perfect he didn't allow them to field it, and kepr it in bounds which allowed us to run a lot more time off the clock, after the earlier return, and with enough time to drive for a fieldgoal, that was big.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

Our special teams in general are letting us down. We have not gotten many good returns. Punter is marginal so far (at best). If not for the kicker, stopping the return in Dallas, we lose! Definately, an area of prime comcern

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

Groom has not hurt us much. He's young with a strong leg. I see no need to drop him unless he starts shanking off 20 yarders on us. the only way to get a good consistent kicking game is to develop someone young and stop running in retreads every year.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

Special Teams has been average, because we thought A. Brown was the answer and he wasn't, so we are back to Thrash, who is real smart with the football, but not a blazer by any means. I am just glad that Hall's injury really did not play into Monday night. We could get anyone to kick XPs. If he wouldn't get hurt, I would love to see Moss return kicks again like he has elsewhere, but that is very dangerous duty! Maybe I don't really want to see that happen.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

[QUOTE=scowan]Special Teams has been average, because we thought A. Brown was the answer and he wasn't, so we are back to Thrash, who is real smart with the football, but not a blazer by any means. I am just glad that Hall's injury really did not play into Monday night. We could get anyone to kick XPs. If he wouldn't get hurt, I would love to see Moss return kicks again like he has elsewhere, but that is very dangerous duty! Maybe I don't really want to see that happen.[/QUOTE]

the bigger problem is him getting worn out... he runs a lot of deep routes, then has to get back to the huddle, adding ST returns as well (with the extra tackles) and he'd be huffing too soon.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

[QUOTE=scowan]Special Teams has been average, because we thought A. Brown was the answer and he wasn't, so we are back to Thrash, who is real smart with the football, but not a blazer by any means. I am just glad that Hall's injury really did not play into Monday night. We could get anyone to kick XPs. If he wouldn't get hurt, I would love to see Moss return kicks again like he has elsewhere, but that is very dangerous duty! Maybe I don't really want to see that happen.[/QUOTE]

Remember a few years back when we thought Thrash had amazing speed??? Damn, its a bitch to get old.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

[QUOTE=offiss]His last punt against Dallas was perfect he didn't allow them to field it, and kepr it in bounds which allowed us to run a lot more time off the clock, after the earlier return, and with enough time to drive for a fieldgoal, that was big.[/QUOTE]

Wasnt his last punt only perfect because it had a huge bounce? Didnt it land really short and they were saying how it was a bad kick but then it rolled a good 15 yards and made it so he couldnt get the ball? It may have been the previous punt Im thinking of but he did have some short ones.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

Groom will improve--I just hope it's soon, because we have no options there.

As for the overall teams play, I've been disappointed. I'm starting to think that Danny Smith is all sizzle and no steak. Wasn't this a priority?

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]Totally agree. In Europe we have a billion people that can kick a ball straight up, with a fade/slice ect playing Rugby (ok, slightly less than a billion) and I never understood why they weren't recruited into the NFL more often.

Has anyone esle seen the kicks in Rugby for the conversions from crazy angles?[/QUOTE]

1) Rugby kickers generally kick on the full run when aiming for touch. Gives them more power than a virtually standing kick (punt).
2) When going for touch they are doing exactly that. Accuracy is second to distance. Watch a rugby game all the way through and you will see plenty of wayward kicks.
3) When kicking penalties (think FG's) they have all the time in the world (well virtually) to set the ball up, line up the kick and kick the ball. NFL kickers have a limited time to set up (play clock) and about 1 second to make the kick. Not the same environment.
4) Rugby ball is bigger and softer than a football. I know for a fact kicking them is different enough to make a big difference, especially considering the 3 points above.

NFL kickers generally come from a soccer background, even if they haven't kicked all the way through high school and college. Rubgy players have kicked their way from school (12 years old or so) thorugh college and university. Retraining them wouldn't be worth the effort for NFL teams.

Oh, and the last ime I saw a rugby player try to play pro football (London Monarchs Martin Offiah) it was a miserable failure.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]Wasnt his last punt only perfect because it had a huge bounce? Didnt it land really short and they were saying how it was a bad kick but then it rolled a good 15 yards and made it so he couldnt get the ball? It may have been the previous punt Im thinking of but he did have some short ones.[/QUOTE]


I didn't roll a long way that I can remember, it did take a good role but not that far, the key to that kick was exactly what he did kick it high and not to deep so we could hopefully do what we did eat up precious seconds off the clock and disallow a return, both happened, who really knows if that's what he was trying to do, it's a tough kick for anyone, it could have been a fluke but it sure was effective.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

[QUOTE=AnonEmouse]1) Rugby kickers generally kick on the full run when aiming for touch. Gives them more power than a virtually standing kick (punt).
2) When going for touch they are doing exactly that. Accuracy is second to distance. Watch a rugby game all the way through and you will see plenty of wayward kicks.
3) When kicking penalties (think FG's) they have all the time in the world (well virtually) to set the ball up, line up the kick and kick the ball. NFL kickers have a limited time to set up (play clock) and about 1 second to make the kick. Not the same environment.
4) Rugby ball is bigger and softer than a football. I know for a fact kicking them is different enough to make a big difference, especially considering the 3 points above.

NFL kickers generally come from a soccer background, even if they haven't kicked all the way through high school and college. Rubgy players have kicked their way from school (12 years old or so) thorugh college and university. Retraining them wouldn't be worth the effort for NFL teams.

Oh, and the last ime I saw a rugby player try to play pro football (London Monarchs Martin Offiah) it was a miserable failure.[/QUOTE]

All good points. How's the weather?

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

[QUOTE=AnonEmouse]
Oh, and the last ime I saw a rugby player try to play pro football (London Monarchs Martin Offiah) it was a miserable failure.[/QUOTE]

would be funny to see a Rugby tackle from the kicker that the returner wasn't expecting .

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

[QUOTE=AnonEmouse]1) Oh, and the last ime I saw a rugby player try to play pro football (London Monarchs Martin Offiah) it was a miserable failure.[/QUOTE]

wasn't darren bennet (ex-punter of the Chargers currently with Minnesota) a former rugby player? or am I just assuming cuz he is from australia that he played rugby :D ?

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

Groom is fine but the only thing is he doesn't drop the ball in the 10, like if he was to punt from our 45 or so the ball would only hit about at the 20, i remember saying atleast twice that Tooop could have drop that ball in the 10 during this season.

Otherwise we are lucky to have Groom as tooop is hurt

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

The boy's a rookie! I think he'll be fine after awhile. It's the coverage that I am concerned with.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

I believe that Bennet played Australian Rules Football (footy as they refer to it there) not rugby.

I think Groom has been satisfactory as a punter. I don't think I'd go out and spend whatever small cap sapce the team has left this year to replace him with another punter who would almost have to cost more than Groom.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

Considering the circumstances, the fact that Groom has stepped in and (a) not shanked anything (as far as I remember), (b) pinned people down within their 20 from time to time, and (c) done a couple of coffin corners to prevent significant runbacks, has shown that he's been worth the investment so far.

Personally, I like him. Nice high kicks that lets our coverage unit (especially James Thrash) get down and get the job done. Before the end of the season, we'll probably see more punts within the 15, 10, and even 5 yard lines.

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

[QUOTE=AnonEmouse]1) Rugby kickers generally kick on the full run when aiming for touch. Gives them more power than a virtually standing kick (punt).
2) When going for touch they are doing exactly that. Accuracy is second to distance. Watch a rugby game all the way through and you will see plenty of wayward kicks.
3) When kicking penalties (think FG's) they have all the time in the world (well virtually) to set the ball up, line up the kick and kick the ball. NFL kickers have a limited time to set up (play clock) and about 1 second to make the kick. Not the same environment.
4) Rugby ball is bigger and softer than a football. I know for a fact kicking them is different enough to make a big difference, especially considering the 3 points above.

NFL kickers generally come from a soccer background, even if they haven't kicked all the way through high school and college. Rubgy players have kicked their way from school (12 years old or so) thorugh college and university. Retraining them wouldn't be worth the effort for NFL teams.

Oh, and the last ime I saw a rugby player try to play pro football (London Monarchs Martin Offiah) it was a miserable failure.[/QUOTE]

I believe our very own Joe Salave'a grew up playing rugby in American Samoa, though perhaps not professionally

Re: Should We Punt Groom?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I believe our very own Joe Salave'a grew up playing rugby in American Samoa, though perhaps not professionally[/QUOTE]

samoa is kinda scary... everyone is like 7 feet tall. cool place to visit though. Their fire dancing is one of the better pacific island rituals or whatever.