Huddle Report Mock Draft
 

[url]http://www.thehuddlereport.com/2004DRAFT/REmock.htm[/url]

[b]CHARGERS trade #1 & #66 to REDSKINS for #5 and OT Chris Samuels[/b]

01) Washington: Eli Manning QB Miss

[b]BILLS trade #13 to REDSKINS for QB Patrick Ramsey[/b]

13: Washington: Vince Wilfork DT, Miami

ok this makes no sense whatsoever

[QUOTE=Cush][url]http://www.thehuddlereport.com/2004DRAFT/REmock.htm[/url]

[b]CHARGERS trade #1 & #66 to REDSKINS for #5 and OT Chris Samuels[/b]

01) Washington: Eli Manning QB Miss

[b]BILLS trade #13 to REDSKINS for QB Patrick Ramsey[/b]

13: Washington: Vince Wilfork DT, Miami[/QUOTE]

Well I don't see the benefits of these moves at all. This seems like those cartoons where the character jumps five feet off the ground, spins his legs and feet in a furious frenzy creating a cloud of smoke but doesn't actually go anywhere. That's my "thorough" analysis of where the Redskins would be if they made those moves

That is possibly the most random, inaccurate thing I have ever seen.

Would anyone want Manning more than Ramsey? Not me. Ramsey has a rocket arm, is tough, and is smart.

Anyways, Matty K is right - this makes no sense at all. We might as well draft Clarett with our #5 pick instead . .

I dont think many people want to get rid of Ramsey, but if he isnt going to play for the next two to three years then mabye we should get somethign for him. I dont want to do that, but Gibbs likes his vetts and Brunell is probably going to start. I dont know if Manning would be the QB to get though. Id rather them get Taylor with five. Then trade Ramsey to get a pick then get a QB. Then we didnt get rid of our pick, and Samuels and Gardner. We could still get rid of Gardner then and mabye our pick form next year and get some dline help.

Even though I'd rather keep him, if we traded Ramsey, how about to Pittsburgh, trade that pick down to get a later 1st round pick and a second/or 3rd and use the new 1st round pick to draft J.P. Losman, who took Ramsey's place at Tulane and is supposed to be stronger and more mobile than Ramsey.

Some people say Losman is the best QB in the draft and has the most potential a few years down the road. Im sure he would learn a lot under Brunell to, along with Gibbs. If we had the 11th pick though id use it and get the dline of our choice to go along with Taylor at five and make our d awesome.

we are not taking a QB, Gibb's does not want a rookie backup, he brought in brunell because after 2 year's he felt ramsey was still to young, we are not in a rebuilding mode we are a win now team drafting a young QB goes against all that.

We are still in a winning mode if we draft a QB, hence why he brough in Brunell. If its a backup it can be a rookie or a two year pro. Honestly i want Ramsey to start and Brunell to just be an expensive backup. Spurrier had his problems but I think he was a great tutor to Ramsey, and now beign under Gibbs Ramsey could be a probowler this year if hes given the shot.

Much of the Ramsey trade rumors depend on how much Gibbs would like to draft and develop a QB of his very own. Judging from what Gibbs has already said, Ramsey isn't going anywhere.

I was going to say that Ramsey was a Spurrier guy, but that wasn't even the case. Ramsey was Snyder and Cerrato's guy. Spurrier didn't have any decision to take Ramsey. In fact, if you remember, Ramsey was almost traded to the Bears after holding out.

This mock seems like a bunch of muck. I can see Marty wanting a quality left tackle but I think other teams will offer alot more than a #5 pick and Samuels for the #1 overall. However, the Ramsey trade does seem interesting to both teams. If he doesn't play for the next two years, his contract will be up and he will want big $$....for sitting.

Its that or we pay Brunell big money for sitting now.

If this were to happen, although it seems somewhat unlikely, I really like it after letting it sink in.

Here are the reasons:

-Ramsey is going to sit the majority of the time over the next couple of years. Why not get something now for him?
-No one can say Ramsey is a true franchise QB (IMO he's not mobile, not accurate enough, can't read defenses all that well)
-Hassellbeck might have shown Gibbs enough to be a decent #2 for now.
-Manning is a franchise QB who can ride the pine for a year (Jay Schroeder was a backup who played in his 2nd year)
-Samuels and Ramsey would really help the cap situation plus it would show agents like Sexton the door
-We would still get a needed DT who has good upside

Overall, it may not make sense, but think about it for a moment...

Ok, I'm a big Ramsey supporter (I still don't like the whole trade for Brunell) BUT if there was any quarterback I would want in his place, it's Eli Manning. I don't know if you guys remember, but when Peyton was coming out of Tennessee, the whispers on the approach to draft day were to the effect that he(Peyton) was highly overrated. Now, after a hell of a college career at a second-tier school playing in the SEC, arguably the best conference, on average over the last few years; the same thing is being said about Eli, with Ben Roethlisberger and Philip Rivers taking turns playing the role of Ryan Leaf . Remember, Ole Miss came two missed short field goals from beating National Champ's LSU. Point is, the kid's a winner, he's got a proven track record, all the physical ability you need (better than Peyton), no character flaws, and the pedigree from hell. When you take into account that Ramsey probably doesn't feel too good about sitting after taking a shellacking for the team during Spurrier's chuck and duck schemes last year, it might be best just to get a good, high value pick in a deep draft. WIth the Bill's pick we could still get some actual quality on D-Line, our biggest need right now.

I'd like to say "just trust the front office" but who the hell would do such a crazy thing?

[QUOTE=skins93]If this were to happen, although it seems somewhat unlikely, I really like it after letting it sink in.

Here are the reasons:

-Ramsey is going to sit the majority of the time over the next couple of years. Why not get something now for him?
-No one can say Ramsey is a true franchise QB (IMO he's not mobile, not accurate enough, can't read defenses all that well)
-Hassellbeck might have shown Gibbs enough to be a decent #2 for now.
-Manning is a franchise QB who can ride the pine for a year (Jay Schroeder was a backup who played in his 2nd year)
-Samuels and Ramsey would really help the cap situation plus it would show agents like Sexton the door
-We would still get a needed DT who has good upside

Overall, it may not make sense, but think about it for a moment...[/QUOTE]
I take issue with the statement that Ramsey isn't a true franchise QB, especially if you're going to label Eli Manning one without him even taking one NFL snap.

Ramsey is still very green, but it's way too early to write him off.

Trading Ramsey just doesn't make sense from the persepective that Gibbs loves to have 2 quality QB's who can both play. Throwing a rookie in the mix would totally contradict his philosophy of QB depth. From what I heard about Hasselbeck he didn't show much in minicamp at all, so I think we can rule that idea out.

It also boils down to who says Ramsey is going to sit for the next couple of years? If he gets the chance to start he very well could take the starting job and run with it. Gibbs is going to go with the guy he feels the most comfortable with regardless of the dollar signs next to his name. Brunell hasn't been the most healthy guy recently so Ramsey's time could come sooner rather than later. Even if Brunell beats him out this year, next year could be a different story.

That sounds like a move someone would make on paper, completely detached from reality. Despite what some may think, Ramsey is a QB you can win with. Good mobility, great arm strength, and given the opportunity a leader. Guys will follow him to victory. You could get a taste of that last season when he would mount these combacks and fall just short. (Falling just short was usually bad playcalling). It makes no sense to bring in a vet to train a young QB and to start that young QB back at page one. Ramsey has experience, just needs a good tutor which he's never had and pass protection. I honestly believe that Brunell wouldn't be a Skin now if Ramesy would have had some protection last season, but then I also believe Spurrier would still be our coach, and even though I liked the guy, I like Gibbs WAY more!

Kingerock, I agree. Ramsey definitely is a leader, and I am hoping that he beats out Brunell in camp. BUt if he is not going to be happy here and he starts wanting to be traded, we have to look at our options.

From the salary charts, I see that Ramsey won't be a UFA until 2007, which gives us three years with a relatively small cap hit (about $1M per year). I don't think we will be able to get another QB of his quality for that type of compensation. Assuming that Brunnel starts this year and next, we get Ramsey for 2006, and then depending on his performance a new contract would have to be negotiated for 2007. Accordingly, I am now of the opinion, that it certainly doesn't make sense to trade Ramsey.

Ramsey is so cheap. THis has got to be bs.

Trade our O-Line anchor and future Pro-Bowl Safety (Taylor) for a QB? Makes perfect sense! We should also try to trade Arrington and Smoot for some more draft picks so we can stockpile some WR's!

It is obvious that a woman is starting these rumors - because they don't make any logical sense!!

I said earlier that this mock draft may not be realistic, but for all those who continue to insist that Ramsey is a franchise QB, I ask why?

The things mentioned are:
-that he is a leader---what are you judging this by, have you talked to players personally?
-someone said he has good mobility---why? because he had ONE DECENT RUN in the 1st game, he has no movement in the pocket at all
-he's accurate---I know he had little protection, but in a Spurrier offense that emphasizes short, quick passes, he only had a 53% completion rate
-that he doesn't cost a lot---should this be a reason to keep someone on the roster?

Ramsey may be on the Skins for a long time coming, but I just don't think he is a QB that is going to take us to the promise land, IMO...

By the way, I think completion percentage says a lot of a QB, more than pure arm strength (ala Joe Montana, Steve Young). Here's a look at some QB's in the league and their completion percentage in their first couple of years:

Drew Brees - 61% and 58%
Q. Carter - 57% and 58%
J. Harrington - 50% and 56%
J. McCown - 57%
B. Leftwich - 57%

[QUOTE=kingerock]You could get a taste of that last season when he would mount these combacks and fall just short. (Falling just short was usually bad playcalling).[/QUOTE]

except that 2pt conversion throw against phili. But I agree, Ramsey showed his leadership abilities and his drive when he kept getting up after being pounded to the ground and coming back for more. I think he has plenty of potential, but that being said you know this is going to more than likely leave a bad taste in his mouth. I see him taking the starting role in a in one and a half years to two years and then when he becomes a free agent and at his full potential, he's gonna bolt and sign somewhere else because of the bringing in of Brunnel. Part of me wants him to stay and prove me wrong, but another part of me would prefer the skins drafting a new qb to mold who has a clean slate with the team.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I take issue with the statement that Ramsey isn't a true franchise QB, especially if you're going to label Eli Manning one without him even taking one NFL snap.

Ramsey is still very green, but it's way too early to write him off.

Trading Ramsey just doesn't make sense from the persepective that Gibbs loves to have 2 quality QB's who can both play. Throwing a rookie in the mix would totally contradict his philosophy of QB depth. From what I heard about Hasselbeck he didn't show much in minicamp at all, so I think we can rule that idea out.

It also boils down to who says Ramsey is going to sit for the next couple of years? If he gets the chance to start he very well could take the starting job and run with it. Gibbs is going to go with the guy he feels the most comfortable with regardless of the dollar signs next to his name. Brunell hasn't been the most healthy guy recently so Ramsey's time could come sooner rather than later. Even if Brunell beats him out this year, next year could be a different story.[/QUOTE]

Matty you took the word's right out of my mouth, he will have an opportunity to start when training camp begin's, pre-season will determain who will be starting opening day, and I still believe it's ramsey, I think Gibb's is going to be pleasantly surprised at just how good ramsey really is. As well I would not trade ramsey for any QB in this draft, only if it was absolutly necceassary, I still believe he will be a very special QB!

Look at Ramseys numbers for the first, lets say five weeks. Thats the only time he has had his head on striaght. That boy got knocked silly week in and week out. He isnt afriad to take a hit, and stayed in there until he could find someone open. Eventually he just started throwing it away and gettign picks in hopes of not getting drilled. You give Ramsey a good o-line and I haev no doubts that he could perform, he did bring us back into a lot of games. Next year his going to have a running game as well, which will do wonders for protection.

plus another good thing about keeping Ramsey would be that'd he's gonna be cheaper to keep on the team than any qb we might draft in his place if we used the first round pick we could get for him towards that purpose.

Any QB drafted in teh top five will get a 10+ million dollar signing bonus

[QUOTE=skins93]I said earlier that this mock draft may not be realistic, but for all those who continue to insist that Ramsey is a franchise QB, I ask why?

The things mentioned are:
-that he is a leader---what are you judging this by, have you talked to players personally?
-someone said he has good mobility---why? because he had ONE DECENT RUN in the 1st game, he has no movement in the pocket at all
-he's accurate---I know he had little protection, but in a Spurrier offense that emphasizes short, quick passes, he only had a 53% completion rate
-that he doesn't cost a lot---should this be a reason to keep someone on the roster?

Ramsey may be on the Skins for a long time coming, but I just don't think he is a QB that is going to take us to the promise land, IMO...

By the way, I think completion percentage says a lot of a QB, more than pure arm strength (ala Joe Montana, Steve Young). Here's a look at some QB's in the league and their completion percentage in their first couple of years:

Drew Brees - 61% and 58%
Q. Carter - 57% and 58%
J. Harrington - 50% and 56%
J. McCown - 57%
B. Leftwich - 57%[/QUOTE]

In order to evaluate talent you can't look at number's, as you pointed out with the qb's you listed, harrington and leftwhich are the only guy's who may be something down the road, as for joe m. and steve y. they both played in the dink and dunk west coast offense, high percentage short passes, so you unfairly compare them to QB's who run a more conventional offense and hold the ball longer and throw down the field, by the way how smart was young when he was playing in tampa bay? the guy was horrible much worse than ramsey ever could be, and how long did it take him to really be effeciant at san fran? A while. ramsey was able to do what he did in spite of an absoultly attroches blocking scheme, and still had success, and all the while he had a bad foot, Ramsey isn't going to be a very good QB, he is going to be a great QB, an elite type QB when it's all said and done. As for having no mobility in the pocket? he may have more pocket awareness than any QB in the game, he manuever's in the pocket maybe better than any QB I have seen, what he doesn't have is straight ahead speed, but he's not slow either, I watched him pull away from jet LB sam cowart last season so he has the speed to out run an OLB, he just doesn't have after burner's that's all. I would also like to see a tougher QB in the league, after what I saw ramsey absorb last year I know 1 thing, this kid is a rock, and with all that punishment not once did I see him with happy feet or throw off his back foot he stood in there because his desire to win was greater than his desire not to be hurt, as for smart's? I would like to know who is more intellegent than Ramsey at the QB position?

[QUOTE=offiss]In order to evaluate talent you can't look at number's, as you pointed out with the qb's you listed, harrington and leftwhich are the only guy's who may be something down the road, as for joe m. and steve y. they both played in the dink and dunk west coast offense, high percentage short passes, so you unfairly compare them to QB's who run a more conventional offense and hold the ball longer and throw down the field, by the way how smart was young when he was playing in tampa bay? the guy was horrible much worse than ramsey ever could be, and how long did it take him to really be effeciant at san fran? A while. ramsey was able to do what he did in spite of an absoultly attroches blocking scheme, and still had success, and all the while he had a bad foot, Ramsey isn't going to be a very good QB, he is going to be a great QB, an elite type QB when it's all said and done. As for having no mobility in the pocket? he may have more pocket awareness than any QB in the game, he manuever's in the pocket maybe better than any QB I have seen, what he doesn't have is straight ahead speed, but he's not slow either, I watched him pull away from jet LB sam cowart last season so he has the speed to out run an OLB, he just doesn't have after burner's that's all. I would also like to see a tougher QB in the league, after what I saw ramsey absorb last year I know 1 thing, this kid is a rock, and with all that punishment not once did I see him with happy feet or throw off his back foot he stood in there because his desire to win was greater than his desire not to be hurt, as for smart's? I would like to know who is more intellegent than Ramsey at the QB position?[/QUOTE]

So what does it feel like to be in love, Offiss?

[QUOTE=skins93]I said earlier that this mock draft may not be realistic, but for all those who continue to insist that Ramsey is a franchise QB, I ask why?

The things mentioned are:
-that he is a leader---what are you judging this by, have you talked to players personally?
-someone said he has good mobility---why? because he had ONE DECENT RUN in the 1st game, he has no movement in the pocket at all
-he's accurate---I know he had little protection, but in a Spurrier offense that emphasizes short, quick passes, he only had a 53% completion rate
-that he doesn't cost a lot---should this be a reason to keep someone on the roster?

Ramsey may be on the Skins for a long time coming, but I just don't think he is a QB that is going to take us to the promise land, IMO...

[/QUOTE]

To address your points:

First, every report I have read from analysts, insiders and reporters who DO talk to the players is that Ramsey is LOVED in the locker room. Jansen (admittedly his best friend) has constantly stated that everyone respects him for taking the punishment, not pointing fingers and never giving up. If you can show me one statement from a player that contradicts this - please show me because I have never seen anything to that effect.

Second, this one I'll give ya, he is not the most mobile quarterback. Also, when he moves (rollouts and planned movement), he seems to lose his mechanics. I think his pocket awareness is good not great and he can shift around in it. But no, Vick he is not. But so what? Dan Marino - Not mobile, Jim Kelly - Not mobile, Tom Brady- no more mobile than Ramsey, same with Farve and Manning. Sorry, mobility not key to being a great quarterback.

Third, "a Spurrier offense that emphasizes short, quick passes"?? What Spurrier offense are you talking about? Certainly not the "Fun n' Gun" which emphasizes flooding the entire field with receivers looking deep first then working back to the short pass. Spurrier emphasized low percentage passing figuring that, heck, if I hit 50% of my long balls, that's more TD's than the other side can score.

Fourth, "that he doesn't cost a lot---should this be a reason to keep someone on the roster?" When the person is a qb with starting experience, has the potential for a huge upside, and in this day of cap constraints, ABSOLUTELY. To fail to consider cap costs when deciding whether to keep, cut or trade a quality (and I emphasize "quality") player would be evidence of severe front office mismanagement.

Ramsey critics MAY be right - maybe he will not develop into a quality starter. From everything I have seen and read, such opinions are contrary to talent evaluators throughout the league. The guy's only had two years and, yes, he has demonstrated some flaws (holds the ball to long, takes sack instead of getting rid of it, doesn't seem to see the field at times). But let's see what he can do under a coach who doesn't require the QB to win the game out of the gate and who knows how to win with a variety of QB's.

IMHO - Trading a quality player and quality person like Ramsey at this time and for this franchise would be a huge mistake.

Well said, Joe.

Thanks BB

Offiss, while I agree with most of your points about Ramsey, I have to strongly disagree about Ramsey being anywhere close to the most aware QB in the league. How many times did he get blindsided last year, all the while he's looking down field and patting the ball seemingly unaware of how long he's holding the ball and wind up being stripped of the ball? And he is no where near being at the top of the league in pocket mobility. I think both of those honors go to Vick. As far as the smartest qb in the league, its either Manning, McNair, or Pettington. I think under Gibbs and Brunnel's teachings that Ramsey can join these qbs as one of the smartest qbs in the league. I do agree that Ramsey is one tough sob and I would put him in the same league with Favre and Mcnair for being one of the 3 toughest qbs in the league. Too bad he had to prove it the way he did last year though. :smashfrea

[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru] I do agree that Ramsey is one tough sob and I would put him in the same league with Favre and Mcnair for being one of the 3 toughest qbs in the league. Too bad he had to prove it the way he did last year though. [/QUOTE]

Right on SFT&T, for all his faults, Ramsey is one of the toughest QB's I have seen. He played on a broken foot for how long?? This factor alone ranks him high in my books and, I think, makes a huge difference to his teammates. Anyone remember how the team just quit on Jeff What's-His-Name, you know the "omigod I may be hit and it's all your fault" QB? This team will NEVER quit on Ramsey.

I don't think anyone, even his critics, can deny that Ramsey has the raw talent to be a good QB - maybe even more, but at the very least a good, quality, "I can win with you" QB. If anyone can take him to the next step and help his skills match his toughness, it's Gibbs.

I'm starting to agree with you JoeRedskin, but I think a lot of people will forget Ramsey when Losman (took Ramsey's place at Tulane) becomes a starter. From what I've read and seen, he has similar if not better arm strength than Ramsey, a very fiery field general, and much more mobile.

[url]http://www.nflfuture.com/jplosman.html[/url]

I would love to keep Ramsey, but if we get a good enough deal with a good enough qb available, I think we need to make the trade. I say this because like I wrote before, unfortunately I believe there's a very, very distinct chance Ramsey won't resign when his contract expires. We'll have trained and honed him to be a possibly elite qb and then he's gonna bolt the first chance he gets for having the starting job "stolen" from him. Let's not forget he's losing a lot of money sitting on the bench since most of his contract is pretty much built upon perfomance incentives. Why not get something for him while we can and train a new qb who has a clean slate with the team?

[QUOTE=offiss]In order to evaluate talent you can't look at number's, as you pointed out with the qb's you listed, harrington and leftwhich are the only guy's who may be something down the road, as for joe m. and steve y. they both played in the dink and dunk west coast offense, high percentage short passes, so you unfairly compare them to QB's who run a more conventional offense and hold the ball longer and throw down the field[/QUOTE]

Spurrier ran a dink and dunk offense. He wanted to throw it down the field but had never heard of a blocking scheme so he ran screen plays all the time. Ramsey threw it down field a lot in the begining but then never got the chance to anymore.

What Ramsey needs is confidence in his team, he lost that at the end of the year. He needs to step in there and have a team block for him. Under Bugel that will happen. I think Ramsey should get the start until he proves otherwise. This preseason is going to be an interesting one. It would be a shame to waste Ramsey for two years, his going into his prime years. If Gibbs thinks hes going to play Brunell just becuase hes a vet then id trade Ramsey, otherwise keep him and let him play and have the vet at backup.

[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru] Unfortunately I believe there's a very, very distinct chance Ramsey won't resign when his contract expires. We'll have trained and honed him to be a possible elite qb and then he's gonna bolt the first chance he gets for having the starting job "stolen" from him. Why not get something for him while we can and train a new qb who has a clean slate with the team?[/QUOTE]

I understand that Ramsey may bolt and, no matter what happens, that is a possibility. BUT, it depends on how he is treated in the next 3 years. If Brunell gets the job even if outperformed by Ramsey, Ramsey will be gone. On the other hand, if Gibbs can stroke Ramsey enough, keep him learning, AND give him the job if he earns it, then he will likely stay and the Skins get to keep two quality QB's for three years at a reasonable cost (Brunell is gone after three, his contract numbers explode in year 4 which, by the way is when Ramsey's contract expires). At the end of his contract, the Skins pay Ramsey top dollar and a little extra for sitting and learning and BAM - no QB worries for the next 10-15 years.

Drafting a new QB is always a risk. I've read the reports on Losman - he looks like a good bet BUT he is still a risk and he doesn't have the "lockeroom love" already developed by Ramsey. In fact, Losman may get backlash for being the guy brought in to replace Ramsey. Further - Gibbs said he is not trading Ramsey, if this turns out to be hot air - talk about backlash. As for the promise of continuity - well, that would just go out the door before the season even starts.

Nope. I recognize other QB's may have more potential than Ramsey, but, as I said before, for this franchise and at this time, trading Ramsey for a new QB is just a bad move.

I agree SkinsnCanes except there's the little matter of the $40+ million contract and $7 million signing bonus that was given to Brunnel. If Brunnel isn't the starter this year and part of next, I know I for one will be extremely pissed off at the FO (and forgive me for saying this but also a little at Mr. Gibbs since Brunnel was his call) for giving up a 3rd round selection in a deep draft and giving a big ass contract for a player who's not even a starter. And while I still hope the starting job really is a competition, it could only make Ramsey a better qb if he sat and learned for atleast most of this upcoming year. And people talk about Brunnel like he's a bum or something, but I think talent wise with his expireince, leadership, and field vision, he's a better qb than Ramsey right now. Brunnel knows not to hang onto the ball forever and still has a little giddy-up in his step to get out of the pocket. I have a feeling Mr. Gibbs knows a little more about the talent of his players than we do so I'm gonna trust him whether he wants to keep Ramsey or trade ramsey and bring in a qb that could be his project.

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy]So what does it feel like to be in love, Offiss?[/QUOTE]

BB your a funny guy. lol but keep it down my girlfriend's nephew start's for the cowboy's, and you never know when the enemy is monitoring the site. lol

those r good points Joe and I hadn't really thought about the backlash that would come with the guy brought in to replace ramsey, especially if it was losman.