If M. Williams is ruled out of draft, does Washington benefit?
 

It looks like there is a good possiblity that Mike Williams will not be eligible for this draft and could go into the supplemental draft. If this happens, I believe the Skins benefit tremendously.

Many teams were hoping for one of the stud WR's (the Williams, Fitzgerald). So if a team was hoping one of them would drop to them, one of them might be more desperate to trade up giving up more to get Washington's #5.

Some of the teams that would be interesting are:

-Atlanta #8 (we could still get Harris, Wilfok, maybe Taylor)
-Jaqs #9 (ditto)
-Jets #12 (ditto)

What do you guys think?

I'd say it benefits us in the following way. Williams is a big, possession style receiver. We have one of those that we might be willing to part with (Gardner) in exchange for the right draft pick...

it is official that a stay has been granted in the case of the nfl vs. clarrett and those deemed underclassmen.


i dont think we'd be able to get taylor if we trade down past detroit or cleveland. it may have been a rumour but we still need to remember the proposed new england deal with detroit. i think we stand pat and get taylor or winslow, i keep swaying from which one i want us to draft. they made a point on the nfl draft show on espn that I hadn't thought of and that's if we draft winslow and put him in motion or in the slot, it would open up even more holes for portis.

would anyone be against us using our supplemental pick if we get a chance to draft mike williams and thus lose our 1st rounder next year? i know wr isn't really a weakness right now but how can u pass on talent like that in a secondary draft.

[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru]i dont think we'd be able to get taylor if we trade down past detroit or cleveland. it may have been a rumour but we still need to remember the proposed new england deal with detroit.[/QUOTE]

ESPN Insider is reporting that the New England/ Detroit rumour was really exaggerated.

I agree about not trading down. We need more picks but not at the expense of drafting Taylor or Winslow.

[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru]would anyone be against us using our supplemental pick if we get a chance to draft mike williams and thus lose our 1st rounder next year? i know wr isn't really a weakness right now but how can u pass on talent like that in a secondary draft.[/QUOTE]


We could use him as a receiving tight end. That's what some of the NFL scouts are projecting him as H-back/tight end. We could pick up Taylor and still get a great talent at H-back. Not sure how the picking order for the supplemental draft goes though...

I would be all in favor of getting Williams in the supplemental draft. Obviously we lose our 1st rounder next year, but how can you pass on a guy who could potentially be a T.O. without the BS.

With our depth at WR, we could bring him along slowly and let him grow, mature, etc.

How many WR are 6'5, a solid 230? How can a CB who weighs generally 180-200 lbs cover a guy like that? Even Boston when he decided to play last year was spectacular.

I don't think Williams is fast enough to ever be a number one WR. Am I wrong on this? The reports I read said that he ran a 4.59 on a fast surface, in spiked track shoes, so scouts are "projecting that time to a 4.7." However they do that...

Williams isn't the fastest WR, but I think he could eventually become a great #1 wideout. Fitzgerald was only clocked in the 4.5 in the 40. Plus, look at a guy like T.O. who isn't the fastest WR on the field but he makes plays. Same thing about Williams. I think with that body, defenses would have a hard time covering or even tackling a guy like that.

If speed was the only factor judging a #1, then Jerry Rice would have been a #2 all his life.

Anyone know what type of salary he might demand if he goes in the supplemental draft? A lot of people have had issues with is speed. He just finished the most intensive speed training program and still barely broke 4.6 after intense training and on a speedy surface. Hes not going to keep up that training all the time, it was solely for his 40 time. We'll see hwat happens in the court case first. I dont think we should give upa first round choice for him.

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy]I don't think Williams is fast enough to ever be a number one WR. Am I wrong on this? The reports I read said that he ran a 4.59 on a fast surface, in spiked track shoes, so scouts are "projecting that time to a 4.7." However they do that...[/QUOTE]

that's one thing that goes against him though because what some reports have said is that he's two different players when it comes to practice(scouting tryouts) and his play during an actual game. i know practice stands for something but his gametime talent is way up there. plus he's only what 20 years old and I'm sure he wouldn't be the first wr without blazing speed to be a team's #1 wr. and if he came here the highest he'd most likely be as long as coles is on the team is the #2 wr.

and for the way the picks r done in the supplemental draft from what I understand is kind of like the NBA's draft lottery. teams with 6 or less wins are randomly selected to determine the order. so we have a one in 13 chance I believe to get the first selection. the worst problem i could see with us drafting him in the supplemental is the contract debate since he was arguablly a top 15 pick in the real draft.

and i have no idea how they tabulate a players speed from turf to grass and vice versa.

[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru]that's one thing that goes against him though because what some reports have said is that he's two different players when it comes to practice(scouting tryouts) and his play during an actual game. [/QUOTE]


Good point. I'll take game performance over practice any day of the week, but it can't be a good sign when more and more scouts are talking about turning him into a tight end.

Hes going to aruge to get the big paycheck still. And because of that I dont knwo if any team would select him in the first round of the supplemental draft. Well, im sure someone would but I dont think we should. Giving up next years draft choice might be an ok idea if we get somethign we need. Why waste the pick on something we dont need. Then we dont have a first round pick to fill a hole next year.

With our depth at WR, we would have to be retarded to give up our first round pick next year... unless Gibbs comes through like we all hope and it's the 32nd pick in the draft!

but could you imagine him as our pass catching TE? u want to talk about the mismatches teams would have if we drafted winslow, but they wouldn't compare to what williams as our te or h-back would do. i'm not for trading future picks like a few people have suggested, but I'd be the first one in line to say if u can draft williams in the supplemental draft do it!!

plus gardner might be gone this year or next to aquire some semi decent picks in the 2nd to 4th round range.

Why not lose next year's 1st rounder for a guy who was already going to be at least a top 15 pick? Hopefully we're picking in the 2nd half of the draft next year.

Positives:

We could trade Gardner.
We could afford to lose him next year.
We could add depth due to injury.

[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru]but could you imagine him as our pass catching TE? u want to talk about the mismatches teams would have if we drafted winslow, but they wouldn't compare to what williams as our te or h-back would do. i'm not for trading future picks like a few people have suggested, but I'd be the first one in line to say if u can draft williams in the supplemental draft do it!![/QUOTE]


It wouldn't be a bad idea if we pick up Taylor and Cleveland drafts Winslow as everyone expects. But a first round pick? All that money? I'm not familiar enough with him...

he'd be top 15 first round talent for significantly less money. his signing bonus even after the debating will be about 3-5 million less in signing bonus alone than he would have gotten from being drafted this saturday. and like skins93 said, more than likely we should be picking in the later half of the draft next year.

I dont see him being a good H-back. He has no experience in blocking, and while hes big for a receiver his small for a tightend. Winslow looks like a tall skinny guy, but its a solid 250. Winslow got enough bulk to him to block people, yet hes fast enough to be a receiver. If you draft M.Williams you gotta play him at receiver, just not number one receiver becasue coles is obvioulsy way faster. He'll be a threat at wideout one day, hes got a little maturing to do though. Hasnt he only been playing football for two years? He did somethign else before he came to college.

What's William weigh anyway? I know it's up there, but not sure how up there...

230, and people want him to lose weight so he'll be faster. Winslow is already faster.

he's 6'5 at 230lbs.

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy]What's William weigh anyway? I know it's up there, but not sure how up there...[/QUOTE]

He is 6'5", 230. Put another 20-25 pounds on him, he'd make a hell of an H-back.

you put another 30 pounds on him, and teach him to block. Thats a lot to ask out of a guy. Because it has to be thirty pounds of muscle. Hes used to being a playmaker, he doesnt want to play hback. It would be easier to get him to lose 10 pounds, and just keep conditioning to be faster. Look at Shockey, Tony G. Todd Heap, they all have big frames, and can just move for their size. How much good do you think Mike would do running infront of Portis 30 times a game? Linebackers and Linemen would level a receiver trying to play fullback all game.

plus from everything I've read about winslow is that he isn't the greatest blocker either. and i also seem to get the idea from sports writers and such that the h-back isn't really used much as a blocker. the h-back is the recieving threat while the te is used primarily as a blocker/extra tackle.

He would be good whenever you sent him in motion, he woudl be a huge threat that way. But then you are just playing him as a receiver, which they should just do anyways.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]He would be good whenever you sent him in motion, he woudl be a huge threat that way. But then you are just playing him as a receiver, which they should just do anyways.[/QUOTE]

so in that regards wouldn't winslow just be a beefed up wr since he isn't really technically sound in his blocking and would mostly be used in shifts and motions?

Please stop judging football players only on the 40 yard dash times and work out numbers. Being fast in the 40 does not make you a great WR or football player. It helps, but you must remember they are playing football not track and field.
Michael Irvin (in his prime), Keyshawn Johnson and Terrell Owens are not going to break anything less than 4.6 or 4.7 in the 40 and they are/were all great Probowl WR's.
There are big possesion WR's and there are speed WR's. Williams is a possesion WR.

Just like being 6' 5" and 250 plus lbs. does not make you a great blocking Tight end.
Making Williams an H-back is not going to work and it would be waste of his god given talent. The jump from blocking defensive backs in college to blocking Linebackers and defensive ends in the NFL is a big jump. Most good college TE's have a tough time adjusting to being good blockers in the NFL. It takes them years to adjust For a WR to do it is just not going to happen.

Winslow can block. Hes been playing in a blocking position for three years now learning how to block. Ive seen WInslow deck linebackers week in and week out. He can also tackle, having a shitty QB that throws lots of picks allowed me to see Winslow level some players that just got picks. So mabye hed make a good special teams player to.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]Winslow can block. Hes been playing in a blocking position for three years now learning how to block. Ive seen WInslow deck linebackers week in and week out. He can also tackle, having a shitty QB that throws lots of picks allowed me to see Winslow level some players that just got picks. So mabye hed make a good special teams player to.[/QUOTE]

Winslow is a good blocker. But Winslow decks college players week in and week out. This is the NFL.
He is not going to come in and dominate someone like Lavar Arrington week in and week out. In fact he will probably get a rude awakening to blocking defensive ends and Linebacker in the NFL. He will have to adjust.
The best players Winslow has faced to date is probably in practice against the Miami defense. NFL defenses are even better.

just saw irvin(curse his name) on the espn draft show say he saw williams run a 4.45 and a 4.51 against the wind and doesn't know where the reports about him running around a 4.6 r coming from.

I saw Irvin say the same thing about M. Williams' 40 time. He also says he is the best WR coming out, better than Fitzgerald.

Now, I know Irvin is an idiot at times, but the guy was a pretty darn good player. At the least, he knows more football than anyone of us or some guys who have never played in the NFL.

I say pick Williams in the supplemental draft!!!

William's is an interesting type of reciever, he has the best hand's IMO in the draft, in fact his hand's are so big and so soft he really only need's 1 to catch the ball, it's like throwing to spider man, but DB's will be able to stay with him, but will they be able to stop him is the question? If he uses his body as well as his hand's he could be unstoppable, all a QB would have to do is throw the ball up and he would come down with it 8 out of 10 times, a lot like what Aikman used to do with ervin and harper, only william's is much bigger and stronger than either one, he's a tough one to predict. As for Winslow, I have heard that he's a much better blocker in the open field, he's limited when he has to block close to the line, the one thing I will say about him is this, the guy strikes me as a killer, and killer's do whatever they have to do to defeat thier opposition, if he's not that good blocking around the line of scrimmage he will become good, or at least as good as he can possibly be, he doesn't look like a primadonna in the mold of a moss, I think he will do whatever he has to do on every play to win, but I defiently could see him after he's gotten comfortable in the NFL becoming a little more like TO, although I want taylor I would be very satisfied with Winslow.

I have always said Williams and Fitzgerald are the two best WR's and nearly got scalped by the other warpath folks when I said it. I am glad to hear someone else agrees with me about Williams.

Everyone agreed that Williams and Fitzgerald were the two best receivers. It was going to be Fitzgerald and Williams not matter what, it was which Williams that was the issue. I dont know how you can say Mike has the best hands though, I havent seen a receiver with hands as good as Fitzgerald in a long long time. Mike is definitly a bigger more dominate guy, but Fitzgerald is a very gifted receiver. If mike is in the draft, and if he falls to the teens. Some team is going to get a heck of a steal with that pick.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]Everyone agreed that Williams and Fitzgerald were the two best receivers. It was going to be Fitzgerald and Williams not matter what, it was which Williams that was the issue. I dont know how you can say Mike has the best hands though, I havent seen a receiver with hands as good as Fitzgerald in a long long time. Mike is definitly a bigger more dominate guy, but Fitzgerald is a very gifted receiver. If mike is in the draft, and if he falls to the teens. Some team is going to get a heck of a steal with that pick.[/QUOTE]

I don't neccessarily mean he catches everything, but his ability to snag a ball is unreal, he can literly use 1 hand and pluck a ball out of the air and secure it, and make it look so easy because of his size, I think he's the 3rd best wr in the draft, but the 1 thing that is tough to gauge, is if he comes in and just outmuscle's the entire secondary and catches anything close to him, that's how he will make himself the elite WR in this draft, but that is very hard to determain whether or not he will be able to do it on the NFL level?

didn't williams catch that one touchdown pass with one hand and caught the ball by its nose? and i know i personally don't agree that mike williams and fitzgerald r the 2 best wrs in this draft but instead think its roy and mike williams. its not that i don't think fitzgerald isn't going to a very good if not great wr, the two williams' just have more intangibles for making plays after the catch especially roy willaims. i do think one sleeper almost no one seems to be talking about at wr is rashaun woods of oklahoma state univ..

mike williams is definitely the shiz... that one handed catch was the best catch by any receiver in college last year (fitz's acrobatic catch where he almost seemed offbalance is a close second).

this guy is definitely going to succeed in the NFL- all three will imo. I just think everyone has different strenghts- roy is the fastest, fitz is the most ready, williams is the strongest. All of them can play and are ready to play in the L. In fact, look for another williams (reggie from UW) to do fairly well. I can't believe rashaun woods and lee evans are also in this draft- did anyone see that game where woods had like 6 or 7 scores???