The real concern: turnovers
 

Forget all this talk about the blown calls by the refs and the defensive breakdowns, the real story of the Bucs game and of the entire season so far has been our horrible turnover ratio. We're now at -11 I believe, playoff teams do not give the ball up as much as the Skins do right now.

If the Skins are going to make a serious playoff push, they need to start winning the turnover battle. They spotted the Bucs some really easy points early on and that set the tone for the rest of the game.

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

Most definitely. At least the team had enough fight to not give up after those 3 early turnovers on the road. Honestly, I think it's coming down to us having no pass rush. Someone mentioned earlier that Nic Clemons always seems to get some kind of push. I'd really like to see more of him (barring he doesn't get any more 15 yarders).

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

It seems like Brunell is averaging a fumble a game.

Guys are getting around the edges even with help from our TEs and HBacks.

You can't blame Brunell for those two INT's. Patten should've caught the first one, and on the second they basically got a lucky bounce.

We could've won at least 3 more games if it wasn't for the turnovers.

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

You're exactly right. Same story in the losses at Denver and Kansas City. Turnovers led directly to points in those games, too. Whether the INTs were Brunell's fault of the receivers', Brunell needs to stop fumbling when he's hit.

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

Yes, they need to create more turnovers on D and eliminate them on O. Another point is that the skins D has gone 4 weeks without a sack. Not good.

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

They sacked McNabb twice

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]It seems like Brunell is averaging a fumble a game.

Guys are getting around the edges even with help from our TEs and HBacks.

You can't blame Brunell for those two INT's. Patten should've caught the first one, and on the second they basically got a lucky bounce.

We could've won at least 3 more games if it wasn't for the turnovers.[/QUOTE]

Amen. Brunell = 1 fumble per game. It is getting annoyingly costly. He has got to protect the ball better. I started another thread on this, but due to the choice of a poor title, that thread has been misconstrued as a Brunell vs Ramsey thread.

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]It seems like Brunell is averaging a fumble a game.

Guys are getting around the edges even with help from our TEs and HBacks.

You can't blame Brunell for those two INT's. Patten should've caught the first one, and on the second they basically got a lucky bounce.

We could've won at least 3 more games if it wasn't for the turnovers.[/QUOTE]

Amen. Brunell = 1 fumble per game. It is getting annoyingly costly. He has got to protect the ball better. I started another thread on this, but due to the choice of a poor title, that thread has been misconstrued as a Brunell vs Ramsey thread.

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

I am begining to think the Skins are a little like the Rams from a few years ago. We can move the ball, turn it over some, still score, but have no D. Probably end up around 8-8 or 9-7 and not make the playoffs. Exciting to watch, but you don't end up going anywhere.

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

You have to give the Bucs some credit though....when we did put pressure on Simms, they picked everything up and thats when the big plays downfield happened.

I think it would've made a hell of difference if Taylor was in there.

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]You have to give the Bucs some credit though....when we did put pressure on Simms, they picked everything up and thats when the big plays downfield happened.

I think it would've made a hell of difference if Taylor was in there.[/QUOTE]

Not to mention Griffin.

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

[QUOTE=hurrykaine]Not to mention Griffin.[/QUOTE]


True. With the way Salave'a was playing....just imagine if Griffin was there...

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

Brunell had a third pass that was almost picked off by the Bucs. Also, didn't he fumble and we recovered it in addition to his fumble that the Bucs recovered?

These are the same types of things that got Ramsey benched.

The offense gave up the ball way too many times during the first half and that kept the Bucs in the game.

So, there is blame to go all around, not just with the "D".

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

Bucs 14 points on turnovers vs. Redskins 8 points on turnovers. Plain and simple, the turnovers have to stop.

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

[QUOTE=LadyT]Brunell had a third pass that was almost picked off by the Bucs. Also, didn't he fumble and we recovered it in addition to his fumble that the Bucs recovered?

These are the same types of things that got Ramsey benched.

The offense gave up the ball way too many times during the first half and that kept the Bucs in the game.

So, there is blame to go all around, not just with the "D".[/QUOTE]
I could not agree more

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

I don't know that Griffin would have made that much of a difference with the pass rush. Even when he was healthy this year, the front four had trouble getting to the quarterback.

Interesting numbers:

The Bucs allowed 10 sacks in the two games leading up to the Redskins, who got zero.

In 9 games so far this season, Wynn and Daniels have combined for one sack -- Daniles got it against McNabb when the rest of the line thought he was going to spike the ball just before halftime.

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

Griffin had 3 sacks before his injury, and he also helps take some pressure off the rest of the front four.

Look, Wynn and Daniels will never be big sack guys and I think GW is well aware of that. This system is set up to bring heat from the LBs and DBs, unfortunately our secondary has been pretty banged up for most of the year which has limited the effectiveness of bringing pressure in this way.

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Griffin had 3 sacks before his injury, and he also helps take some pressure off the rest of the front four.

Look, Wynn and Daniels will never be big sack guys and I think GW is well aware of that. This system is set up to bring heat from the LBs and DBs, unfortunately our secondary has been pretty banged up for most of the year which has limited the effectiveness of bringing pressure in this way.[/QUOTE]

It will certainly help to get Griffin back, yes. But I've never seen a team or its fans willingly write off any chance for the defensive ends to sack the quarterback. If everyone, including the coaching staff dismisses the ineptitude of the starting ends, excusing their performances by saying that's just "part of the system", then I fear for this defense and the team's chances to advance to the playoffs.

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

I don't think the staff is dismissing the abilities of the DEs, I think it's just a case of them understanding what kind of players they are and playing to the defense's strengths, which means relying on the DBs and LBs for pressure.

You can't just snap your fingers and make Wynn and Daniels pass rushing madmen.

Re: The real concern: turnovers
 

Speaking of turnovers, in today's Washington Post, Brunell says he will work to prevent future fumbles. He's dropped the ball five times in the past five games:

[b]Redskins Notebook[/b]

[b]Brunell Looks For Personal Improvement[/b]





By Leonard Shapiro
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, November 16, 2005; Page E08


Washington Redskins quarterback Mark Brunell knows his team is playing on borrowed time if its turnover trend continues. At the moment, the Redskins are minus-11 in turnover margin, tied with Baltimore for next to last in the NFL, and Brunell said he has to do a better job of protecting the ball.

"For me personally, I need to anticipate pressure and tuck the ball away," said Brunell, who has fumbled five times in the 12 sacks he has taken over the last five games. "Many times you feel [the pressure], but the ball is exposed because you're trying to throw it. You're looking to get it back to your body so it won't come out.

[img]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2005/09/02/GR2005090200904.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2005/11/15/GR2005111500569.gif[/img]
[b]Where:[/b] FedEx Field
[b]When:[/b] 1 p.m. Sunday
[b]TV:[/b] CBS

Washington's [url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/15/AR2005111501723.html"][b][color=#0c4790]once-dominant defense[/color][/b][/url] prepares for Randy Moss and the Raiders.
[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/15/AR2005111501430.html"][b][color=#0c4790]Notebook:[/color][/b][/url] Mark Brunell is looking to cut down on turnovers.
Coach Joe Gibbs contends officials [url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/14/AR2005111401642.html"][b][color=#0c4790]missed several calls[/color][/b][/url] on Sunday.
Raiders Coach [url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/14/AR2005111401396.html"][b][color=#0c4790]Norv Turner[/color][/b][/url] is again at the helm of a team in turmoil.

[b]Sore Over Four[/b]


Redskins Coach Joe Gibbs takes issue with officials on four plays in the team's 36-35 loss Sunday to Tampa Bay: [b]1.[/b] Mike Alstott's game-winning two-point conversion attempt.
[b]2. [/b]An offside penalty that negated what would have been a game-clinching, blocked extra-point attempt.
[b]3.[/b] A first-half interception of quarterback Mark Brunell on which Tampa Bay was not called for illegal contact.
[b]4.[/b] A 34-yard, first-quarter completion given to Tampa Bay wide receiver Joey Galloway after Pierson Prioleau was ruled to have pushed him out of bounds.

[b]BUCCANEERS 36, REDSKINS 35[/b]


[img]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content//photo/2005/11/13/PH2005111301385.jpg[/img]
Mike Alstott scores two touchdowns and converts a gutsy [url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/13/AR2005111300485.html"][b][color=#0c4790]two-point conversion[/color][/b][/url] with under a minute left in the game to lift Bucs.
[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/13/AR2005111301239.html"][b][color=#0c4790]Michael Wilbon:[/color][/b][/url] This loss may haunt Redskins for the rest of the season.
[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/13/AR2005111301253.html"][b][color=#0c4790]Mike Wise:[/color][/b][/url] The longer the season goes on, the more cracks show in the defense.
[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/13/AR2005111301149.html"][b][color=#0c4790]Tony Kornheiser:[/color][/b][/url] Last week, the Redskins could run the table. This week, not so much.

[b]On Our Site[/b]


[url="http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FBN_REDSKINS_BUCCANEERS_FINAL_BOX_MEGAR?SITE=DCWAP2&SECTION=MEGASPORTS"][b][color=#0c4790]Summary[/color][/b][/url]
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[b]Audio[/b]


The Post's Tony Kornheiser and Gene Wang [url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/audio/2005/11/13/AU2005111300742.html"][b][color=#0c4790]look back[/color][/b][/url] on the stunning loss.

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"You turn the football over, and you're usually going to lose the football game. Statistics would show if the [takeaway/giveaway] rate is what we have now, you're not winning games. We're beating the odds right now, but you don't like to live like that."

Coach Joe Gibbs didn't share the quarterback's critical self-assessment. "He's playing very, very good," Gibbs said. "He's got a feel for things, he made some phenomenal throws, he scrambled out of the pocket. There's no one else I'd want out there playing for us. I'll say this. I haven't seen anyone play any better with the ball in his hands. He's finding people all over the place. It's pretty powerful stuff."