Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

Wide receiver David Patten sat out practice on Wednesday with knee soreness and is listed as doubtful for this Sunday's game against the Oakland Raiders.
If Patten is unable to play, the Redskins would have just three wide receivers on the 53-man roster: Santana Moss, James Thrash and Taylor Jacobs. Oakland will be without cornerback Charles Woodson, who has a fractured leg, so the Redskins' passing game could catch a break with the Raiders missing one of their top defenders.
Rookie wide receiver Rich Parsons, a Maryland product, could be a candidate to be called up from the practice squad if Gibbs decides he needs a fourth wide receiver for this Sunday's Oakland game at FedExField.
Full Story at: [url]http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=12617[/url]

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

Good thing is his stats won't be much different than in other games. I have always thought he had the potential, last year he had the third most yards per catch among receivers with over 40 catchs. He is fast and can get away but he has proved me wrong this year. he had one good game at denver and one touchdown there even though it didn't count, lets hope he gets better and finishes off strong in the last 5-6 games.

Hopefully taylor can come in like he did earlier this year......and i am not talking about jacobs

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

parsons sucks

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

[QUOTE=Big C]parsons sucks[/QUOTE]
he is from maryland, therefore i like him, i met him earlier this year.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

time to see if jacobs is ready to play in the nfl i guess... only took 2+ years.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

[QUOTE=BigSKINBauer]Good thing is his stats won't be much different than in other games. I have always thought he had the potential, last year he had the third most yards per catch among receivers with over 40 catchs. He is fast and can get away but he has proved me wrong this year. he had one good game at denver and one touchdown there even though it didn't count, lets hope he gets better and finishes off strong in the last 5-6 games.

Hopefully [B]taylor[/B] can come in like he did earlier this year......and i am not talking about jacobs[/QUOTE]

I think Sean Taylor only played in 2 or 3 downs and all of those were inside the 5 yard line if I remember correctly, which I may be wrong. I think Sean Taylor is a hell of a gamer and one of the most physically talented guys on the team but i honestly don't see him running 20+ yards downfield to catch the bomb. Short possesion type passes maybe.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

Instead of simply bashing Patten, can someone explain why Patten was so productive for a #2 wideout in New England, but isn't a productive wideout here in D.C.?

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

[QUOTE=BigSKINBauer]he is from maryland, therefore i like him, i met him earlier this year.[/QUOTE]

sweet

:spank: :spank: :spank:

:duel: :duel: :duel:

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Instead of simply bashing Patten, can someone explain why Patten was so productive for a #2 wideout in New England, but isn't a productive wideout here in D.C.?[/QUOTE]


To me, it just seems like he's playing to be the # option as receiver. I haven't seen him do anything special, and I seriously doubt it has anything to do with the playcalling. If that was the case, than Moss wouldn't be having such the year that he's having. I think Patten is mostly a possession receiver, but he hasnt' exactly been consistant. However, I still would take Patten over Gardner.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Instead of simply bashing Patten, can someone explain why Patten was so productive for a #2 wideout in New England, but isn't a productive wideout here in D.C.?[/QUOTE]
yah i wonder, Patten was quite possibley the best WR on that team last year.

He had 44 catches 800 yards 7 TOUCHDOWNS 18.2 average

Givens was more consistant with 56 catches 874 yards 3 TDs 15.6 average

i just don't understand why, i do however think he has it in him. Maybe being out a week or so will allow him to take a step back and evaluate things and have a good 6 games to end it. He has the potential and he has 1 on 1 every game. He needs to step up and take responsibility. I think he will start being a big part but i always feel our players will be amazing. I thought it would be TD after TD with Moss and Patten side by side, two of the top three yards per catch players.

I was only joking about taylor, i still don't mind him at goal line though. Hopefully glass man jacobs will have a big day and also show the potential we all know he has.

Thrash is gonna have to do some heavy lifting in this game too.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

Ramseyfan:

Here's my opinion on the question you asked:

Patten was one option among a wide variety of options with the Pats for the past couple of years where all of the options had quality players manning the positions. It was hard to double up any single player on the Pats because they had such a variety of weapons. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, the Pats used all of the weapons they had. Tom Brady - and Charlie Weis as the playcaller - made sure that every offensive weapon got plenty of usage just to make sure that the defensive coordinator didn't "load up" on anything and take it away from them.

Even the Pats running game was more suited to setting up the pass than the Skins' running game is. I'm not demeaning Portis, but Corey Dillon is mainly an inside runner who is not nearly as likely to break a 70-yard gain as is Portis. So, if Dillon was running well, the only way to adjust to that was to pack the box - opening things up outside. With Portis, you pack the box at your own risk because then you might allow him to break a big one outside. So, defenses against the Skins tend to play "wider" than did defenses against the Pats.

In the current offensive scheme, the first WR option is virutally always Santana Moss. Then the QB will look for a TE or the running back as a safety valve. Patten is there for "spot-duty" or for those times when options 1 and 2 are covered and the QB has time to find option 3. Given the porosity of the offensive line for much of this year, the QB rarely has the time to think about option 3 let alone have the opportuity to find him.

Remember, you asked...

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

I noticed sometimes though that Brunell checks off the first receiver, usually Moss, then he looks to Patten and checks him off then goes to someone like Sellers or Cooley. But what stands out for me is that the third option isn't necessarily any more open than Patten.

So it has me wondering if Brunell doesn't believe that Patten can make the play in coverage. He probably does, but still...

As for Dillon's impact, didn't Patten have his best years when the knock on the Pats was that they had no running game? Well actually, I guess they had Antowain Smith back around 2001 right?

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

We've all been saying that sooner or later, Moss is going to get doubled, and Patten will have step up.

Watch, this will be the week that Santana Moss is shutdown.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Ramseyfan:

Here's my opinion on the question you asked:

Patten was one option among a wide variety of options with the Pats for the past couple of years where all of the options had quality players manning the positions. It was hard to double up any single player on the Pats because they had such a variety of weapons. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, the Pats used all of the weapons they had. Tom Brady - and Charlie Weis as the playcaller - made sure that every offensive weapon got plenty of usage just to make sure that the defensive coordinator didn't "load up" on anything and take it away from them.

Even the Pats running game was more suited to setting up the pass than the Skins' running game is. I'm not demeaning Portis, but Corey Dillon is mainly an inside runner who is not nearly as likely to break a 70-yard gain as is Portis. So, if Dillon was running well, the only way to adjust to that was to pack the box - opening things up outside. With Portis, you pack the box at your own risk because then you might allow him to break a big one outside. So, defenses against the Skins tend to play "wider" than did defenses against the Pats.

In the current offensive scheme, the first WR option is virutally always Santana Moss. Then the QB will look for a TE or the running back as a safety valve. Patten is there for "spot-duty" or for those times when options 1 and 2 are covered and the QB has time to find option 3. Given the porosity of the offensive line for much of this year, the QB rarely has the time to think about option 3 let alone have the opportuity to find him.

Remember, you asked...[/QUOTE]

Apart from Clinton Portis' first carry as a Redskin on opening day last season, he hasn't demonstrated much of a likelihood of breaking a 70-yard gain. Not saying it won't happen, but since then, he has otherwise been contained.

You're right though that Cooley often appears to be the second option. Sometimes it seems that the running back and Mike Sellers comes in third and fourth. Only on wideout screens does Patten tend to be the primary target. So either it's the system, or Brunell and Patten just haven't gotten on the same page yet.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]We've all been saying that sooner or later, Moss is going to get doubled, and Patten will have step up.

Watch, this will be the week that Santana Moss is shutdown.[/QUOTE]

shut down by who? if you don't know, the raider's D is worse than awful and possibly their best defensive player (woodson) is out with a broken leg... I know fabian washington ran a 4.27, but he's not exactly a polished veteran (being a rookie and not highly thought of in the draft etc).

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Apart from Clinton Portis' first carry as a Redskin on opening day last season, he hasn't demonstrated much of a likelihood of breaking a 70-yard gain. Not saying it won't happen, but since then, he has otherwise been contained.

You're right though that Cooley often appears to be the second option. Sometimes it seems that the running back and Mike Sellers comes in third and fourth. Only on wideout screens does Patten tend to be the primary target. So either it's the system, or Brunell and Patten just haven't gotten on the same page yet.[/QUOTE]

portis did have a 31 yarder vs tampa and a 41 yarder earlier, but he's not breaking big gains the way bell is in denver right now...

patten got a bunch of screens that went no where... moss tends to take his screens 10-78 yards, so i on't even think he's the main screen target anymore.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

If they want to double Moss let them. Thrash always hussles and works hard, he'll pick up some catches. I heard that Jacobs is one of the fastest, so let them 'sleep' on him and then when he burns one downfield they'll realize hes just as significant as Moss is as a threat. I'm definitely NOT saying that Jacobs is in anyway shape or form a Moss but he is fast. I also think that Cooley will get some touches and you can never say Sellers is out of the Offense.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]portis did have a 31 yarder vs tampa and a 41 yarder earlier, but he's not breaking big gains the way bell is in denver right now...

patten got a bunch of screens that went no where... moss tends to take his screens 10-78 yards, so i on't even think he's the main screen target anymore.[/QUOTE]

Maybe we're all expecting too much from Patten. I think everybody would like a John Taylor, Alvin Harper, or Reggie Wayne in David Patten. But really, the scheme Gibbs is running just doesn't seem to concentrate on the #2 wide receiver all that much. Cooley has proven to be too effective to be relegated for the third option. So far, the passing game is running smoothly, so even though Patten stats aren't jumping off the page, I'm not complaining about this aspect of the team.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

[QUOTE=Warpath]If they want to double Moss let them. Thrash always hussles and works hard, he'll pick up some catches. I heard that Jacobs is one of the fastest, so let them 'sleep' on him and then when he burns one downfield they'll realize hes just as significant as Moss is as a threat. I'm definitely NOT saying that Jacobs is in anyway shape or form a Moss but he is fast. I also think that Cooley will get some touches and you can never say Sellers is out of the Offense.[/QUOTE]

Considering how much Thrash is involved in the offensive scheme as the #3 receiver, I wouldn't expect too much out of Taylor Jacobs this weekend, who will likely take that spot.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Considering how much Thrash is involved in the offensive scheme as the #3 receiver, I wouldn't expect too much out of Taylor Jacobs this weekend, who will likely take that spot.[/QUOTE]
I agree,but hopefully Jacobs will prove us both wrong and have a breakout game,it would be nice for a change if one of our players has a career game against somebody instead of the other way around

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

[QUOTE=htownskinfan]I agree,but hopefully Jacobs will prove us both wrong and have a breakout game,it would be nice for a change if one of our players has a career game against somebody instead of the other way around[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I've been waiting for that "breakout game" from Jacobs for awhile now . . .

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

Yeah, if Jacobs doesn't do something special soon, he'll probably be gone next year.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

Jacobs, buddy, now is your time. Do it now, or good luck in the arena league next year!

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

I wouldn't get your hopes up TJ fans, sounds like Thrash will be the #2.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]shut down by who? if you don't know, the raider's D is worse than awful and possibly their best defensive player (woodson) is out with a broken leg... I know fabian washington ran a 4.27, but he's not exactly a polished veteran (being a rookie and not highly thought of in the draft etc).[/QUOTE]

So let me call it now. Fabian Washington has an INT and Warren Sapp has a couple sacks. Rookies/washed up vets having career games. Those will be the two.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I noticed sometimes though that Brunell checks off the first receiver, usually Moss, then he looks to Patten and checks him off then goes to someone like Sellers or Cooley. But what stands out for me is that the third option isn't necessarily any more open than Patten.

So it has me wondering if Brunell doesn't believe that Patten can make the play in coverage. He probably does, but still...

As for Dillon's impact, didn't Patten have his best years when the knock on the Pats was that they had no running game? Well actually, I guess they had Antowain Smith back around 2001 right?[/QUOTE]

I cant imagine that Brunell WOULD have a lot of faith that Patten can make the play in coverage. Most of what Ive seenis Patten dropping the ball and not making the tough catches. For example the Int from the Bucs game...sure he got hit, but the ball bounced off his hands before he was touched. If you get hit in the hands, you gotta make the catch.

Also, to those of you who keep saying Patten is a "posession receiver"? Thats crazy talk...he's tiny and fast, not big and strong. A posession WR is someone who can use their big ass body to make catches in the red zone or in short yardage for first downs. At 5'10" and 190lbs hes smaller than lots of corners. Thats no posession receiver.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

Is it just me or was everyone else semi-excited to see Patten not playing this weekend? It gives the chance to see Jacobs step up and make some plays. Maybe put Patten at #3 where he would be more effective.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

You don't necessarily have to be big to be a possession receiver, a possession WR to me is someone who has great hands and runs the short to intermediate routes well, aka a chain mover.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

I do believe that the Patriots were throwing the ball alot more than we are. Brady was attempting 40+ passes a game. They used those short 3 or 4 yard routes as there run game alot of times. Plus, the Redskins have been throwing to the H-back and TE more than the #2 or #3 receivers. I think, if we continue this trend and teams are focused more on Cooley, Sellers, Royal, Portis and Betts, that it will open things up for Patten and Trash,or Jacobs. Cooley is generally wide open on most of his receptions, as well as Sellers and the backs coming out of the back field. Fact remains, Patten has to do a better job at getting open when his play is called. I think the skins were trying to get him more involved in Tampa, put did not do a great job when his number was called. The first pass to him, he used bad technique on catching. He should have come back for the ball instead of waiting for the ball to come to him. And the ball down the sideline he stopped and lost the battle for the ball. Doesn't seem like he is all there mentally. I think the frustration of not being a threat in the offense may be getting to him. I hope Jacobs steps in and play great. the coaches were so high on him in the offseason because of how hard he worked at Redskin Park when everyone else was on vacation.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

Santana Moss plays with an extreme amount of confidence to me, like he knows he is the fastest, best guy on the field. Patten does not always seem so sure of himself. How do I know?.....It's just body language to me. Bottom line is I am not worried about the Offense much this week with Patten out, so we lose 3-4 balls that get thrown his way. It just means that Betts or Thrash or Sellers get a few more.. Because you know that Moss and Cooley will get 7-10 looks.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

Yeah, and I'm not SUPER worried about Oakland's D.

Re: Patten Doubtful vs Raiders
 

This is the best chance to Taylor Jacobs to step up and show us something. If he can make an impact in this game, theres a good chance he'll see more playing time towards the end of the season. Especially if Patten keeps playing the way he is.

Thrash as a number 2 doesn't bother me. He's not a playmaker, but he is solid. He's a good run blocker as well.