If Winslow is drafted could we be #1 in offense?
 

If we draft Kellen Winslow II, could we have the top ranked offense in the league next year? Last year Minnesota was #1 in total yards and KC was #1 in scoring.. With Brunell or Ramsey, Coles, Portis and possibly KII, we would have just as many weapons, if not more, than any team in the league.

I think we have a shot to be #1 in the League w/o Winslow. It would depend on the play of the TE/H-back obviously. We have a Great Line, and some awsome weapons, so it should be interesting.

So much of that ranking is subjective. For example, Minnesota had good yardage numbers because their defense was porous enough to let them receive a lot of kickoffs. I know Winslow is miles ahead of any TE/H-back on our roster, but it's hard to say how that'll corrolate to our numbers in yardage or points. He's a great target, but every pass to Winslow is a ball that doesn't go to someone else.

And people will say the same about Sean Taylor. If we get Taylor we will have a number one deffense. Just heard on ESPN radio if both Taylor and Winslow II are still available when we are on the clock. The war room will be spinning.

Well if we draft Taylor, we'll still be VERRRY far from being the #1 defense. Thats for sure.

I would rather not be top ranked at anything and win the Superbowl. Who remembers the top ranked offense in any given year? They remember the world champs. Having a fantasy league type offense is for video games. With the salary cap you cannot afford to have all your stars on one side of the ball.

Bowen and Ohalete are not very good. They are adequate at best. Plus the Free Safety position is a very important piece to a successful defense. All the recent Superbowl winners had at least one good safety.
While I understan some of you folks that would like to have a fantasy league offense by adding Winslow... Repairing our defense and creating a balanced roster is more important. I don't want to be the KC Chiefs.

A #1 offense does not win championships. A balanced team with good offense, defense, and special teams does. That said, I agree with Gmanc711 that our O has the potential even without KW. The top SCORING offense is one thing, but the top ranked offense is by yards, which can be misleading....same with defense with points or yards allowed.

I am with you SkinsRock. That is why I am for drafting Taylor - Balance. We have some solid playmakers on offense. A nice little set of "triplets" if you will - solid QB (whoever wins the job), premier running back and receiver; with a solid, if not spectacular, undercard behind them. On defense, outside of LaVar (and with apologies to Smoot), where are the playmakers?

Absent a trade down, to me this is a no-brainer: Taylor over KWII

[QUOTE=SkinsRock]A #1 offense does not win championships.[/QUOTE]No... but Joe Gibbs has won the Superbowl with the #1 offense. I'd love to see that happen again because a great offense is exciting and entertaining. That being said, I still want Taylor.

the rams won with the #1 offense didn't they and reached another superbowl 2. the broncos and packer offenses were much better than their respective defenses a few years back when each won their superbowls. either way i'm excited to actually be able to argue over whether to get an awesome te to make our offense scary as hell or a premier safety with tremendous playmaking ability.

If we had Winslow our offense would be in an elite group. Yes everyball to Winslow is a ball taken away from someone else. But a ball to Winslow that creates a first down is better then an incomplete pass to covered receivers. Look at the Giants, they run all over us when Shockey is in the game, we cant cover him and the receivers. We'd have that same threat. Taylor would help cover shockey but id kinda like to see our offense roll over people.

Clayton, ESPN.com senior NFL writer:" Joe Gibbs already told Kellen Winslow that if he's here, the Redskins will take him. He's the perfect H-back type tight end for the system that Gibbs wants to run. Gibbs coached Kellen Sr., so it's fitting that he gets to coach the son."
This was during the espn mock draft. Anyone else heard that Gibbs said we would take winslow?

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]Clayton, ESPN.com senior NFL writer:" Joe Gibbs already told Kellen Winslow that if he's here, the Redskins will take him. He's the perfect H-back type tight end for the system that Gibbs wants to run. Gibbs coached Kellen Sr., so it's fitting that he gets to coach the son."
This was during the espn mock draft. Anyone else heard that Gibbs said we would take winslow?[/QUOTE]

that contradicts what he hinted at with the howard hold out but this is the time of year where even joe gibbs can lay seeds of doubt in the minds of not only the fans but more importantly other clubs.

No one thinks Gibbs would lie, he giggles like a schoolboy during every press conference. Which means hes either very honest, or hes playing everyone into doing as he pleases.

I have been pro KW II from the get go (I think I was the only one who voted for him in the draft poll ;) ). Here's why: Gibbs is the master of the H-back. His offense uses the position in extremely creative ways. The whole she-bang runs off of that position. Watch the incredible number of shifts and motions he runs off the h-back position. KW II is potentially the best h-back prospect ever. Ever. And Gibbs coached his dad.

Give Gibbs the weapons, and finish fixing the d with FA's, low draft picks, and next year's draft.

Taylor is awesome, and I wouldn't be at all disapointed with him. But KW II and Gibbs just seems like the right fit to me, especailly given that we DON'T HAVE AN H-BACK AT PRESENT.

[QUOTE=JWsleep]
Taylor is awesome, and I wouldn't be at all disapointed with him. But KW II and Gibbs just seems like the right fit to me, especailly given that we DON'T HAVE AN H-BACK AT PRESENT.[/QUOTE]

I have been a Taylor guy the whole time, but you do make a point. We already have 2 safties who have played competently at the NFL level. I don't think Bowen is that bad, last year was his first year as a starter and he brings the hammer.. Ohalete is a bit slow and stiff, but if protected by scheme he's serviceable. We don't have a H-back/TE at all and getting a potential perennial pro bowler would be awesome. That would allow us to trade Gardner at some point if need be, especially if Jacobs develops and McCants continues to improve. I'm starting to lean KII's way.. I love/hate this time of year! :laughing-:

I think the Skins are having one of the hardest time making a decision. Most teams have a clear list of who they want at their pick. We will(should) have our choice and cant decide. Its not a decisio I would want to make. Im still hoping we pulls omething off to get both of them.

i'd be happy with either, but the only reason i'd give the nod to taylor is b/c of our secondary... especially with the loss of bailey, i'd think some help is in order. i've been a smoot fan since his rookie year, but i'm not yet ready to name him a no. 1 corner... plus our D-Line isn't striking any fear into anyone just yet... so we may need some bolstering behind the backers.

if the browns somehow land winslow, i think they'll be a top offense next year... their receiving corps is sick and i think william green is gonna be fine next year. their qb situation still needs stability though hehehe

Don't forget Lee Suggs on the Browns

[QUOTE=smootsmack]Don't forget Lee Suggs on the Browns[/QUOTE]

yeah suggs did awesome for them last year and green seems to have a lot of trouble in his life that he needs to sort out first.

as far as our pick, we'll never really know how they choose, but if both players r still on the board, i wouldn't be suprised if it was decided by a something like a coin toss, lol.

Winslow would definately put us over the top, that is if he signs quickly and can get in camp. There would just too many weapons to cover. The big question however is the Postons and when you could take a player who can change a defense like Winslow can change an offense, Taylor looks like the pick for this team because of his "signability".

[QUOTE=skinsfanthru&thru]yeah suggs did awesome for them last year and green seems to have a lot of trouble in his life that he needs to sort out first.

as far as our pick, we'll never really know how they choose, but if both players r still on the board, i wouldn't be suprised if it was decided by a something like a coin toss, lol.[/QUOTE]
Actually, by this wrinting, we'll know in 2 days, 6 hours, and 30 minutes. :)

Taylor is the difference maker on D that can help make up for the potential short cummings on the front four. Gibbs has had his fun picking up some new offensive toys in Brunell and Portis, it's time to give Williams a new toy for the D. I'll be disappointed if Taylor isn't the pick on saturday.

Heres my take. With the offense we could throw on the feild right now, we could go to the Super Bowl, I'm 100% confident that we have a Super Bowl Calibur Offense. I cant say, however, that I'm that confident in the defense. We have some nice YOUNG pickups, who could be monsters, a couple good players in the secondary with Smoot and Springs if he's healthy. Our D-Line is still gonna be pretty average, but I think at least this year they can hold their own. If you throw Taylor into our defense though, that brings my confidence level right up. He can be a game changing player on our defense. Thats not to say Winslow couldnt be, but I just dont think we need somthing liek that on our offense with Brunell/Ramsey, Portis , Coles and a pro bowl line, with playmakers like McCants and a good #2 like Gardner, we even have some Wildcards like T Jacobs and Thrash. However on the defense, when I look at current " Game- Changing " Players, I see Arrington, Smoot as guys who have saved games for us in the past, but thats about it.

[QUOTE=Paintrain] I don't think Bowen is that bad, last year was his first year as a starter and he brings the hammer.. Ohalete is a bit slow and stiff, but if protected by scheme he's serviceable. [/QUOTE]

But Bowen doesn't really bring the hammer. Our safeties and tight ends are serviceable at best right now. Not to mention our rush ends. I'd go with Taylor in the draft and find an h-back in the fifth or sixth round. No knock on K2 because he is going to be a special, special player. But it's been our defense that has cost us games the past few years, drafting Taylor would go a long way towards fixing that.

[QUOTE=Paintrain] I don't think Bowen is that bad, last year was his first year as a starter and he brings the hammer.. Ohalete is a bit slow and stiff, but if protected by scheme he's serviceable. We don't have a H-back/TE at all and getting a potential perennial pro bowler would be awesome. [/QUOTE]

The safeties in most schemes are supposed provide protection to defenders covering a great reciever, they are not supposed to need protection. What good is having a Safety that needs protection? It causes a great liability to the defense.
Neither Bowen or Ohalete are ball hawks. They are not going to have many interceptions. Your free safety is supposed to break up passes and get interceptions for your defense to be good.
Also, I have seen people talk about the H-back position calling it the "critical H-back position" or the "lynch pin position" for Joe Gibbs system.
Gibbs won three super bowls with (what you folks call) "the critical position" manned by the likes of Clint Didier.
Clint Didier was drafted in the 12th and final round of the 1981 draft. There is no longer a 12th round in the draft. So he basically would be an undrafted free agent if drafted this Saturday.
I think you guys have overstated the importance of the H-back position in Gibbs system. He just needs to be smart, a great blocker and catch an occasional pass.

[QUOTE=Defensewins]Also, I have seen people talk about the H-back position calling it the "critical H-back position" or the "lynch pin position" for Joe Gibbs system.
Gibbs won three super bowls with (what you folks call) "the critical position" manned by the likes of Clint Didier.
Clint Didier was drafted in the 12th and final round of the 1981 draft. There is no longer a 12th round in the draft. So he basically would be an undrafted free agent if drafted this Saturday.
I think you guys have overstated the importance of the H-back position in Gibbs system. He just needs to be smart, a great blocker and catch an occasional pass.[/QUOTE]

Excellent point. No one is doubting the ability of Winslow. As this offense has been configured, though, putting him in the H-back slot is like sending the Marines to get a cat out of a tree. O-V-E-R-K-I-L-L.

[QUOTE=BrudLee]Excellent point. No one is doubting the ability of Winslow. As this offense has been configured, though, putting him in the H-back slot is like sending the Marines to get a cat out of a tree. O-V-E-R-K-I-L-L.[/QUOTE]

I agree. But on the other hand, Gibbs is the type of coach that will adapt his system to the players he has. Remember, he first came to the Skins with a vertical passing offense, but adjusted to the players he had. If he has someone like Winslow at the H-back spot, he will do whatever he can to use his talent.
That said, I still think Taylor is the better choice at #5...

I don't want to be #1, I want to win! Get 10+ wins and will be the happiest man alive.