Play Calling
 

What's with the playcalling today? Could it be considered as conservative or we just playing not loose as usual?

Discuss

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This is a ball control offense. Not sure why people are so surprised that it isn't Indy's offense. This offense thrives off of the running game. I suppose we could pass every down. They sure worked for us during the Spurrier years.

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We played to lose, as we have done when we had fourth-quarter leads in the past three games. Gibbs need to wake up before we finish 6-10 again.

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[QUOTE=Twilbert07]We played to lose, as we have done when we had fourth-quarter leads in the past three games. Gibbs need to wake up before we finish 6-10 again.[/QUOTE]
6-10 looks good right about now.

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I think we all expected to lose today. I'll only go ballistic if the Rams and Cardinals beat us. We should be 7-6 in two weeks.

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[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I think we all expected to lose today. I'll only go ballistic if the Rams and Cardinals beat us. We should be 7-6 in two weeks.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but the problem is we didn't expect to lose last week, so I think a lot of us , me included, were hoping a win this week would balance things out.

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The Skins cannot beat anybody right now. To let two West coast teams travel here and beat us at home is the mark of a poor team. If I was the Rams or Cardinals--I would be licking my chops...

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[QUOTE=NYCSkin]The Skins cannot beat anybody right now. To let two West coast teams travel here and beat us at home is the mark of a poor team. If I was the Rams or Cardinals--I would be licking my chops...[/QUOTE]

We should have won the Raiders game and lost the Chargers game. Both were narrow losses. I'm not giving up on this team yet (as aggravating as it can be).

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Here is the problem with the question. You have to consider that play calling and execution go hand in hand. If Rabach doesn't make that penalty, play calling doesn't even come up in a thread. Gibbs did call a conservative game though. It is just a hard topic to pin-point

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anyway the raiders arent that poor of a team in the first place the giants lost to em too

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[QUOTE=Redskin]anyway the raiders arent that poor of a team in the first place the giants lost to em too[/QUOTE]

The Raiders are definately a better team than their record suggests. Like us, they have lost a lot of close games.

That said, we should have won that game.

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[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]The Raiders are definately a better team than their record suggests. Like us, they have lost a lot of close games.

That said, we should have won that game.[/QUOTE]
bottom line we are what we are 5-6 and sinking fast.The eagles could tie us and they lost arguabley the best reciever and qb in the game.We are just pitiful.

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[QUOTE=sniks]bottom line we are what we are 5-6 and sinking fast.The eagles could tie us and they lost arguabley the best reciever and qb in the game.We are just pitiful.[/QUOTE]

We've been sinking because our record was a lot better than we deserved. We were and are a .500 team. (Yes I know we are under .500 right now.)

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I know ramseyfan just totaly frustrated with the fourth quarter play.Cant seem to hold it together on either side of the ball.Last 3 games should have won.But like i said earlier we r what we r.

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[QUOTE=Twilbert07]We played to lose, as we have done when we had fourth-quarter leads in the past three games. Gibbs need to wake up before we finish 6-10 again.[/QUOTE]
He's still playing 1979 football..... afraid to win

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Yeah, he's been way too tentative the past three weeks.

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[QUOTE=NYCSkin]The Skins cannot beat anybody right now. To let two West coast teams travel here and beat us at home is the mark of a poor team. If I was the Rams or Cardinals--I would be licking my chops...[/QUOTE]

You know damn well the Redskins are going to beat those teams. Let's keep it real. We seem to have our way against NFC conference teams which is why this team is so frustrating. Win have of the AFC games we are 7-4. It's hard for Gibbs to focus on winning in the Division and AFC all in one season I guess.

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After last week, I wouldn't count on any victory as automatic.

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Check this out. We pick off Brees at their 30yd line with about 50 seconds left in the game. Portis finally gets 9 yds on one run. Wait a minute, penalty. A 10yd penalty puts the ball at the 40yd. line. Do we throw the ball or just let Portis carry this team on his shoulders since he dropped the team last week ? Yes, Portis runs no gain. He runs again. Third down, no one is open and Brunell runs out of bounds. Why Gibbs why? Why Don Breaux why? Why give the ball away to the third team to beat us on a raggedy fourth quarter decision?

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Oh great. We made history today. The Giants, Cowboys and Redskins loss today which is the first time that three teams in the same division loss by three points. Who gives a f#$k.

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[QUOTE=SUNRA]Check this out. We pick off Brees at their 30yd line with about 50 seconds left in the game. Portis finally gets 9 yds on one run. Wait a minute, penalty. A 10yd penalty puts the ball at the 40yd. line. Do we throw the ball or just let Portis carry this team on his shoulders since he dropped the team last week ? Yes, Portis runs no gain. He runs again. Third down, no one is open and Brunell runs out of bounds. Why Gibbs why? Why Don Breaux why? Why give the ball away to the third team to beat us on a raggedy fourth quarter decision?[/QUOTE]

Neither the running or passing game were sharp in the 2nd half. With enough time on the clock for San Diego to go score, Portis ran the ball in order to run the clock down and hopefully get yardage. Those were good calls in my book. Then, on 3rd and long, we try to pass the ball to get into field goal range. Another good call.

So, my question is, what exactly was wrong with those calls?

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[QUOTE=SUNRA]Oh great. We made history today. The Giants, Cowboys and Redskins loss today which is the first time that three teams in the same division loss by three points. Who gives a f#$k.[/QUOTE]
We lost by 6.

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[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Neither the running or passing game were sharp in the 2nd half. With enough time on the clock for San Diego to go score, Portis ran the ball in order to run the clock down and hopefully get yardage. Those were good calls in my book. Then, on 3rd and long, we try to pass the ball to get into field goal range. Another good call.

So, my question is, what exactly was wrong with those calls?[/QUOTE]
1-10-SD31 (1:04) C.Portis to SD 25 for 6 yards (B.Jue, D.Florence).
[b]2-4-SD25 (:55) C.Portis right end to SD 25 for no gain (L.Castillo).
PENALTY on WAS-C.Rabach, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at SD 25 - No Play.
2-14-SD35 (:50) C.Portis left end to SD 35 for no gain (R.Godfrey).[/b]
3-14-SD35 (:40) M.Brunell pass incomplete to C.Cooley (S.Merriman).
4-14-SD35 (:35) J.Hall 52 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Right, Center-E.Albright, Holder-D.Frost.

From the 35 you are already out of FG range, why are you running the ball instead of running a short pass? No gain leads to 3rd and long which plays right into the defenses hands.. On 2nd and 4 from the 25 why not throw a quick slant to Moss or Jacobs or a quick out to Cooley? Get the 1st, get a few more yds.. The mentality of 'playing it safe' is [b][i]exactly[/b][/i] why we have lost the past 3 games.

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[QUOTE=Paintrain]1-10-SD31 (1:04) C.Portis to SD 25 for 6 yards (B.Jue, D.Florence).
2-4-SD25 (:55) C.Portis right end to SD 25 for no gain (L.Castillo).
PENALTY on WAS-C.Rabach, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at SD 25 - No Play.
[b]2-14-SD35 (:50) C.Portis left end to SD 35 for no gain (R.Godfrey).[/b]
3-14-SD35 (:40) M.Brunell pass incomplete to C.Cooley (S.Merriman).
4-14-SD35 (:35) J.Hall 52 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Right, Center-E.Albright, Holder-D.Frost.

From the 35 you are already out of FG range, why are you running the ball instead of running a short pass.. No gain leads to 3rd and long which plays right into the defenses hands.. On 2nd and 4 from the 25 why not throw a quick slant to Moss or Jacobs or a quick out to Cooley? Get the 1st, get a few more yds.. The mentality of 'playing it safe' is [b][i]exactly[/b][/i] why we have lost the past 3 games.[/QUOTE]

I think you should have put the penalty in bold. That was huge. The point of that drive was to control the ball, run the clock down and kick a game-winning field goal. Rabach's hold sort of messed up those plans

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[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I think you should have put the penalty in bold. That was huge. The point of that drive was to control the ball, run the clock down and kick a game-winning field goal. Rabach's hold sort of messed up those plans[/QUOTE]
I agree, change made in my post, but you reinforced my point.. When that penalty occured, you can't run the ball again on 2nd and 14! You have to [b]adjust[/b] your plans to the situation. We hadn't been successful running all day, what was going to change on that play. Conversly, Brunell had a QB rating over 100, was completing the short passes (when Royal wasn't dropping them) and getting protection.. We needed 7-10 yds on 2nd and 14. That would have made the difference on the kick.

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[QUOTE=Paintrain]I agree, change made in my post, but you reinforced my point.. When that penalty occured, you can't run the ball again on 2nd and 14! You have to [b]adjust[/b] your plans to the situation. We hadn't been successful running all day, what was going to change on that play. Conversly, Brunell had a QB rating over 100, was completing the short passes (when Royal wasn't dropping them) and getting protection.. We needed 7-10 yds on 2nd and 14. That would have made the difference on the kick.[/QUOTE]

I don't think our passing game was exactly top notch. In fact, it was downright awful in the 4th quarter. In the 4th quarter Brunell dropped back 7 times and completed just 2 passes for 15 yards (that's just 2.1 yards per pass). Portis wasn't doing well either; he ran for 36 yards on 13 carries (that's just 2.8 yards per carry). The bottom line is neither the running or passing game was working.

Had Brunell gone 3 and out, people would be screaming for Gibbs' head. In my opinion, Gibbs made the right call, it just didn't turn out right.

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[QUOTE=Paintrain]I agree, change made in my post, but you reinforced my point.. When that penalty occured, you can't run the ball again on 2nd and 14! You have to [b]adjust[/b] your plans to the situation. We hadn't been successful running all day, what was going to change on that play. Conversly, Brunell had a QB rating over 100, was completing the short passes (when Royal wasn't dropping them) and getting protection.. We needed 7-10 yds on 2nd and 14. That would have made the difference on the kick.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree here and the playcalling was the topic of a post I made earlier today. [b]Especially[/b] after the hold when you have 2nd and 14 why not throw and underneath route to Cooley. Hell for that matter we even had moderate success with medium routes down the field to Moss and Jacobs. I think the whole game Brunell had been sacked maybe twice and for the most part, had not been under the gun. Running on 2nd and 14 made no sense to me at all. I thought the 1st half play calling was much better with a better mix of the pass and run, plus we were spreading the passes around and using all our receivers (even Royal, who couldn't catch a cold today!). I just think that our problem for the past three weeks we don't know how to hold a lead, and IMHO the best way to hold a lead is to always play like your 3 to 6 points behind and play to score every time. Don't be happy with just running the clock down or 'winning the battle for field position'. As I've understood the game, the team with the most points wins.

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[B]I posted this earlier, but the 4th quarter passing game was averaging just 2.1 yards per attempt. [/B] The running game, which was also suffering, was averaging 2.8 yards per attempt.

If we had passed two more times and come up with incompletions or sacks and Hall had missed the FG by 4 yards, people would've been screaming at Gibbs for not running the ball and getting a few more yards. The 53-yarder was a tough, but makeable kick.

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[QUOTE=Ramseyfan][b]I posted this earlier, but the 4th quarter passing game was averaging just 2.1 yards per attempt. [/b]The running game, which was also suffering, was averaging 2.8 yards per attempt.

If we had passed two more times and come up with incompletions or sacks and Hall had missed the FG by 4 yards, people would've been screaming at Gibbs for not running the ball and getting a few more yards. The 53-yarder was a tough, but makeable kick.[/QUOTE]

or you could say that we were averaging 7.5 yds per completion and a 7 or 8 yard completion on second and 14 would have led to a 3rd and 7 or 6 yds to go and while being somewhat difficult is a heck of a lot easier than 3rd and 14 with the SD front four teeing of and wanting Brunell blood. The 53 yd FG for Hall was tough but makeable for this guy a year ago, but a real stretch for him this year especially after the leg injury that kept him out for about half the season.

While I acknowledge your point RF, it still doesn't sway me from my stance that our playcalling was defeatist and non-agressive in the second half and I think that was as much the cause of our losing today as lack of execution.

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[QUOTE=LongTimeSkinsFan]I totally agree here and the playcalling was the topic of a post I made earlier today. [b]Especially[/b] after the hold when you have 2nd and 14 why not throw and underneath route to Cooley. Hell for that matter we even had moderate success with medium routes down the field to Moss and Jacobs. I think the whole game Brunell had been sacked maybe twice and for the most part, had not been under the gun. Running on 2nd and 14 made no sense to me at all. I thought the 1st half play calling was much better with a better mix of the pass and run, plus we were spreading the passes around and using all our receivers (even Royal, who couldn't catch a cold today!). I just think that our problem for the past three weeks we don't know how to hold a lead, and IMHO the best way to hold a lead is to always play like your 3 to 6 points behind and play to score every time. Don't be happy with just running the clock down or 'winning the battle for field position'. As I've understood the game, the team with the most points wins.[/QUOTE]

Well it seem I should have started the SCARED TO WIN! thread a week later, I probably wouldn't have recieved as much flack this week.

Yea but what else is new, Gibbs has been calling games since he came out of retirement as if the world is going to end if he actually does something other than a routine running play late in the forth quarter, I am tired of hearing about the complaining about the refs, Gibbs allows them to be a factor late in the game with his play calling, and lack of killer instinkt to close teams out.

Just like last week, and the week before that, Gibbs went to the apple of his eye with the game on the line and failed again, I guess he hasen't figured out yet that we can't run the ball when the game is on the line, I guess he believes Portis is Tomlinson, Alexander, Barber, all who had huge runs with the game in the balance today, but to be fair to Portis I put most of the blame on Gibbs for not having the sense to not call his number.

But I guess all said and done running the ball there was the right move, just like last week, and the week before that, it really seems to be working out well. :biggthump

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Yeah, Gibbs (like Brunell) shouldn't have held Jamal Williams and pushed us out of field goal range. Gibbs shouldn't have dropped 3 of 4 passes that came his way (unlike Royal who was spectacular). Maybe, just maybe, it's not Gibbs who is to blame for everything that happens on the field.

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[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Yeah, Gibbs (like Brunell) shouldn't have held Jamal Williams and pushed us out of field goal range. Gibbs shouldn't have dropped 3 of 4 passes that came his way (unlike Royal who was spectacular). Maybe, just maybe, it's not Gibbs who is to blame for everything that happens on the field.[/QUOTE]

I think maybe part of the problem is perhaps unnecessarily high expectations. True, Gibbs is one of the best coaches ever. But he didn't win it all every year. If you really break it down, his best teams were built in 3-4 year intervals. But there's no time for patience in this day and age. Especially not after enduring 12 years of misery after Gibbs left.

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[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I think maybe part of the problem is perhaps unnecessarily high expectations. True, Gibbs is one of the best coaches ever. But he didn't win it all every year. If you really break it down, his best teams were built in 3-4 year intervals. But there's no time for patience in this day and age. Especially not after enduring 12 years of misery after Gibbs left.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, I think you hit the nail on the head.

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I think every coach should be given three years before you start asking for his head.

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[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I think maybe part of the problem is perhaps unnecessarily high expectations. True, Gibbs is one of the best coaches ever. But he didn't win it all every year. If you really break it down, his best teams were built in 3-4 year intervals. But there's no time for patience in this day and age. Especially not after enduring 12 years of misery after Gibbs left.[/QUOTE]

I think you have it! I don't believe ANYONE is stupid enough to believe you can build a team from disarray to dominance in two seasons.

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I just sense right now that this team expects something to happen in the 4th qtr to lose the game.it's a different person stepping up or down to mess up every week.i thought they had stepped out of this cycle earlier this year but now it seems that they have fallen back into it.lack of athletes in the skill positions, lack of quality cb. depth ,lack of de pressure..arrington out of postion.and an o line that is just not playing as a unit consistanly enough to be depended upon. and a qb who tends to look a 1 reciever in certain cituations and if they are covered is screwed.and a coaching staff who plays it too close to the vest.i'm numb right now.i am tired of the diappointment. period.tired of excuses and watching other teams put it together and go on after us and become better while we wallow in the meir.when is this going to change ?

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We were way too conservative. Brunell hadnt thrown a pick all game, we should have tried a 15-20 yd pass on 1st or 2nd, really try to push their D around. Thats how you win football games.

I dont know if we will have the right personell on our team, because of our lack of draft picks.

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[quote]I suppose we could pass every down. They sure worked for us during the Spurrier years.[/quote]

Yeah, because the outcome is so different in the Gibbs era, right skinsfan? At least Gibbs has a defense to prop him up.

The playcalling has GOT TO CHANGE. Gibbs normally calls a pretty solid half though I think we should push it a bit more. At the end of the game you have got to try to get enough yards to win the game. You don't want to go into overtime against the best scoring team and best pass rushing team. That smells disaster. These last two losses come from Gibbs inability to grow some balls and put a game away.

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[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I think maybe part of the problem is perhaps unnecessarily high expectations. True, Gibbs is one of the best coaches ever. But he didn't win it all every year. If you really break it down, his best teams were built in 3-4 year intervals. But there's no time for patience in this day and age. Especially not after enduring 12 years of misery after Gibbs left.[/QUOTE]
I think that people who are calling for a change in coaching staff are crazy.. But people, like myself, who are looking for a change in coaching style have a point.. I don't think expecting a team who has had a 2 score lead in the 2nd half of each of the 3 games to hold the lead and win the game is unrealistic. It's not like we are expecting huge comebacks from defecits to win games, just hold the lead you already have.. Something's working to get points on the board, keep doing it, don't stop attacking.. The Giants attack, the Colts attack, the Steelers attack.. We are what we are, but we are not a team right now that can hold a 2 score lead so we need to keep attacking and getting more and more points.. Winning in today's NFL means 24+ points unless you have a lights out defense, which we do not.. 2 TD and a FG aren't going to get it done anymore.

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[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Yeah, Gibbs (like Brunell) shouldn't have held Jamal Williams and pushed us out of field goal range. Gibbs shouldn't have dropped 3 of 4 passes that came his way (unlike Royal who was spectacular). Maybe, just maybe, it's not Gibbs who is to blame for everything that happens on the field.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree.

I think a lot of people are letting the players off way too easy.

There are a number of guys that just didn't get it done yesterday.