Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

By now, we’re all well aware of the fact that Gibbs thus far has only been able to match Steve Spurrier’s record of 11-16 at this point in his second stint as head coach. But according to my local paper this morning, the Virginian-Pilot, here are some other troubling stats you may not be aware of…

In games decided by seven points or less, Spurrier’s team was 7-10. Under Gibbs, they’re 8-12.

In two seasons, Spurrier’s Redskins were penalized 240 times. Gibbs is on pace for 224.

With Gibbs at the helm, the Skins average 116 yards per game rushing. Under Spurrier – it’s 111.

Spurrier’s offensive line allowed 81 sacks over two seasons. With Gibbs and Bugel as coaches – with a more mobile quarterback -- they’re projected to allow 79.

I don’t know how anyone can’t be disappointed at this. Would we all have given Steve Spurrier another year to work things out since many appear to give Gibbs a free pass at this point?

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

I think Spurrier certainly had the potential to be a good NFL coach, but Joe Gibbs has proven he could do it. Further, the players seem to believe that Joe Gibbs can do it.

Those are interesting stats though. I wonder what it is that this team is lacking...

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=Winskins]I think Spurrier certainly had the potential to be a good NFL coach, but Joe Gibbs has proven he could do it. Further, the players seem to believe that Joe Gibbs can do it.

Those are interesting stats though. I wonder what it is that this team is lacking...[/QUOTE]

fresh innovative blood

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

all of those stats gibbs is better in, even slightly but all the stats together this is a stronger team. Also compare gibbs' second year to steves because last year our offense sucked and STILL we have more yards per game on the ground and less sacks, this year we are a much better team than last year and all of those stats are offensive stats and last years offense was pretty damn bad and might pull down some of those stats

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

i think the people in washington were willing to give spurrier one more year but there is NO comparison between coaches,none

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

i also believe spurrier could have been a better NFL coach given another year. i think in the long run however, even in his second stint JG is far and away a better coach overall.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]By now, we’re all well aware of the fact that Gibbs thus far has only been able to match Steve Spurrier’s record of 11-16 at this point in his second stint as head coach. But according to my local paper this morning, the Virginian-Pilot, here are some other troubling stats you may not be aware of…

In games decided by seven points or less, Spurrier’s team was 7-10. Under Gibbs, they’re 8-12.

In two seasons, Spurrier’s Redskins were penalized 240 times. Gibbs is on pace for 224.

With Gibbs at the helm, the Skins average 116 yards per game rushing. Under Spurrier – it’s 111.

Spurrier’s offensive line allowed 81 sacks over two seasons. With Gibbs and Bugel as coaches – with a more mobile quarterback -- they’re projected to allow 79.

I don’t know how anyone can’t be disappointed at this. Would we all have given Steve Spurrier another year to work things out since many appear to give Gibbs a free pass at this point?[/QUOTE]

It may be more interesting to see a compare of year #2 for each

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

I was all for giving Spurrier another year, I don't think any coach can be fairly judged in just 2 seasons.

What disturbed me about Spurrier was the lackadasical approach he had to coaching. From his initial comments about other NFL coaches working too hard, to not knowing the names of his own players, to Jansen stating they didn't even have gameplans week to week.

Spurrier's teams didn't show 1/4 of the heart and fight that Gibbs' teams have, and that all starts with the mentality that the head coach instills in the team.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

I'll never forget what Spurrier said on his last Coach's Radio Show on 980am.. The last question he was asked was :

"Coach is there anything optimistic you can say to the fans for next year?"

OBC "Welp..............not much"

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

Just more hatin' on ol' Joe Gibbs. If it was up to the fans, we'd have a different coach and quarterback each week.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]
What disturbed me about Spurrier was the lackadasical approach he had to coaching. From his initial comments about other NFL coaches working too hard, to not knowing the names of his own players, to Jansen stating they didn't even have gameplans week to week.

Spurrier's teams didn't show 1/4 of the heart and fight that Gibbs' teams have, and that all starts with the mentality that the head coach instills in the team.[/QUOTE]

That's the bottom line. Gibbs is getting max effort from every one of these guys. Gibbs has actually spent the better part of his first 2 years UN-doing the culture that Spurrier created while he was here, and he's done a great job.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=onsidekick]That's the bottom line. Gibbs is getting max effort from every one of these guys. Gibbs has actually spent the better part of his first 2 years UN-doing the culture that Spurrier created while he was here, and he's done a great job.[/QUOTE]
Well said

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]Just more hatin' on ol' Joe Gibbs. If it was up to the fans, we'd have a different coach and quarterback each week.[/QUOTE]Thats a new idea we could have coach and QB by committee. Every Monday all the players and front office could vote for QB, head coach, offensive and deffensive coach and they would run pratice and the game on Sunday. If we win they keep their jobs for another week and if we loose we have another vote on Monday. They could even have 25% of the vote come from fans that would log on to the Skins site and cast their votes.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

You can find stats to support any argument. However, all you need to do is watch the games (which I am pretty sure we all do here) to see which team is more competitive and which is headed in the right direction. Spurriers teams were an absolute mess. The last few weeks have been rough, but with the possible exception of the Giants game Gibbs has had this team putting forth maximum effort with every player on board every single week. They all believe in Gibbs and are united as a team. I just never felt that way under Spurrier. The wins are going to follow eventually...

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=celts32]You can find stats to support any argument. However, all you need to do is watch the games (which I am pretty sure we all do here) to see which team is more competitive and which is headed in the right direction. Spurriers teams were an absolute mess. [/QUOTE]

Agreed.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

matty why dont you run a poll to see who the fans want to coach the skins?my vote goes to coach gibbs,no question.ill take him against anyone,bar none

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[quote]Just more hatin' on ol' Joe Gibbs. If it was up to the fans, we'd have a different coach and quarterback each week.[/quote]
a) Most people supported Gibbs.
b) Gibbs has a much better staff around him.
c) We have much improved players from Spurrier's stint. If a team with Trung Candidate (see McDonalds drive through) can average 111 yards on the ground that says something.

I think as fans we should look objectively at our coaches. While everyone was willing to give Spurrier another year, you sure as hell weren't spouting the "I trust the coach" type crap that every thread has twenty boring posts filled with.

This coaching staff isn't doing any better than Spurrier, and I must say. That's disappointing. Hopefully one more year will turn the tide.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]a) Most people supported Gibbs.
b) Gibbs has a much better staff around him.
c) We have much improved players from Spurrier's stint. If a team with Trung Candidate (see McDonalds drive through) can average 111 yards on the ground that says something.

I think as fans we should look objectively at our coaches. While everyone was willing to give Spurrier another year, you sure as hell weren't spouting the "I trust the coach" type crap that every thread has twenty boring posts filled with.

This coaching staff isn't doing any better than Spurrier, and I must say. That's disappointing. Hopefully one more year will turn the tide.[/QUOTE]

Coach Gibbs has earned our trust with having prior experience and success in the NFL. Steve Spurrier had no prior experience or success in the NFL. It's not that hard to figure out why people trust Joe Gibbs over Steve Spurrier, regardless of the current accumlated win-loss stat.

Of course it's disappointing that we're slumping. It's disappointing to me that we don't win the Super Bowl every year. Luckily, we have a coaching staff who is willing to put for the work ethic that it takes to turn things around. Steve Spurrier wasn't winning to do that.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

Of course we didn't trust Spurrier, why should we have?

Gibbs has the resume and trophies, along with that comes trust and much respect.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=celts32]You can find stats to support any argument. However, all you need to do is watch the games (which I am pretty sure we all do here) to see which team is more competitive and which is headed in the right direction. Spurriers teams were an absolute mess. The last few weeks have been rough, but with the possible exception of the Giants game Gibbs has had this team putting forth maximum effort with every player on board every single week. They all believe in Gibbs and are united as a team. I just never felt that way under Spurrier. The wins are going to follow eventually...[/QUOTE]

No one disputes that Spurrier's team was an absolute mess. The point of this thread was to demonstrate that even while Gibbs' team is putting forth its "maximum effort", there's been only the slightest improvement.

I'm not even sure you can use the term 'improvement' with the way this team has performed lately.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25]matty why dont you run a poll to see who the fans want to coach the skins?my vote goes to coach gibbs,no question.ill take him against anyone,bar none[/QUOTE]

Yo Matty, (these remarks are not bout your post dmek) Don't forget to include Jack Pardee, Don King, The Duke of Earl, Pope John Paul, and the Marque de Sade. These would make as much sense as compairing Joe to Spurrier. They should not be mentioned in the same NFL breath. Spurrier was a fish out of water

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

i take offense,the duke of earl was the man ha ha hey hog1 your an old timer like me,been a fan since 1969

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

spurrier may have had a better team when he was hired than gibbs did at his hiring...

I also think the strength of schedule this year is seriously affecting some of the stats.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]spurrier may have had a better team when he was hired than gibbs did at his hiring...

I also think the strength of schedule this year is seriously affecting some of the stats.[/QUOTE

I certainly agree. Our 9-7 win over Chicago looks pretty damn good when you consider who the sports writers are comparing them to. If we had closed games as well as we had started them we would have only 1 loss. The Giants are the only team that dominated the Redskins for the enitire game unlike the Cowboys whose misfortune in the 4th quarter has seem to rub off on us.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]No one disputes that Spurrier's team was an absolute mess. The point of this thread was to demonstrate that even while Gibbs' team is putting forth its "maximum effort", there's been only the slightest improvement.

I'm not even sure you can use the term 'improvement' with the way this team has performed lately.[/QUOTE]


I do see vast improvement over Spurriers teams. The record does not tell the whole story. I believe this team is 100% better than anything spurrier ever put on the field. The division is much better now also. Spurrier coached when the NFC East was maybe the worst division in the league and now it is possibly the best. If Gibbs current team has won 5 games through 11 games, Spurriers team probably would have won 2 games against the schedule the skins have played this year.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]By now, we’re all well aware of the fact that Gibbs thus far has only been able to match Steve Spurrier’s record of 11-16 at this point in his second stint as head coach. But according to my local paper this morning, the Virginian-Pilot, here are some other troubling stats you may not be aware of…

In games decided by seven points or less, Spurrier’s team was 7-10. Under Gibbs, they’re 8-12.

In two seasons, Spurrier’s Redskins were penalized 240 times. Gibbs is on pace for 224.

With Gibbs at the helm, the Skins average 116 yards per game rushing. Under Spurrier – it’s 111.

Spurrier’s offensive line allowed 81 sacks over two seasons. With Gibbs and Bugel as coaches – with a more mobile quarterback -- they’re projected to allow 79.

I don’t know how anyone can’t be disappointed at this. Would we all have given Steve Spurrier another year to work things out since many appear to give Gibbs a free pass at this point?[/QUOTE]


Beems you forgot maybe the most lopsided stat of all and that's our defense under Gibbs, SS never had a D like what we have had the last 2 years under Williams, Gibbs defiently has had a huge advantage to put more victories in the win colum than SS had and is basically in dead heat with the old ball coach.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

Let's not play it like Gibbs lucked himself in to a top defense. He knows how to surround himself with quality coaches.

Spurrier did have Marvin Lewis and a quality defense, but Lewis was brought in by Snyder, not Spurrier.

We let the wrong guy go when Lewis left.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

Ironically, Spurrier did better with key members of Marty's team (Davis, Gardner) in his first year than he did with his own key players (Trung, Coles) in his second year. Anyhow, let's break it down even further per Hog1's request: (ranks based on points scored and allowed):

Spurrier Year 1:

7-9
Offense Rank-#25
Defense Rank-#21
W-L (games decided by 7 points or less): 3-3
W-L (games decided by 21 points or more): 0-2
Yards rushing/game: 118
Yards passing/game: 220
Yards rushing allowed/game: 109
Yard passing allowed/game: 205

Spurrier Year 2:

5-11
Offense Rank: #22
Defense Rank: #24
W-L (games decided by 7 points or less): 4-7
W-L (games decided by 21 points or more): 0-3
Yards rushing/game: 103
Yards passing/game: 204
Yards rushing allowed/game: 138
Yards passing allowed/game: 209

Gibbs Year 1:

6-10
Offense Rank: #31
Defense Rank: #5
W-L (games decided by 7 points or less): 4-7
W-L (games decided by 21 points or less): 1-1
Yards rushing/game: 110
Yards passing/game: 180
Yards rushing allowed/game: 82
Yards passing allowed/game: 186

Gibbs Year 2 (through 11 games):

5-6
Offense Rank: #21
Defense Rank: #16
W-L (games decided by 7 points or less): 4-5
W-L (games decided by 21 points or more): 1-1
Yards rushing/game: 113
Yards passing/game: 212
Yards rushing allowed/game: 97
Yards passing allowed/game: 175

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[list=1][*]It's not that "we" didn't give Spurrier another chance. He left in frustration.[*]Spurrier came to the NFL to see if his football principles would work at the professional level. It's pretty obvious that they don't. Spurrier is a good enough football guy to have adapted, but he disliked being "NFL-ized." I'm not commenting on his frustration with the owner. However, Spurrier ruined Patrick Ramsey as an NFL-ized quarterback.[*]Joe Gibbs is the [i][u][b]only[/b][/u][/i] coach that Danny Snyder will not hinder. That alone make him more valuable than Spurrier.[/list]In five years, Gibbs will have remade the Redskins from the inside out, with a stronger salary cap position and better evaluation of talent. Spurrier wouldn't have been able to do that. Remember he wanted Danny Wuerffel on the roster. :stop:

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

Im tired of hearing about the ruining of patrick ramsey. WTF!!! was he joe montana or john elway and spurrier became coach and made him patrick ramsey?

It's clear that Gibbs doesnt like Ramsey. We love his arm but i bet jeff george can still throw farther than ramsey.
I personally fell in love with ramsey during the titans game his rookie year. we were behind big and ramsey comes in and takes monster shots but keeps tossing the ball around. He is Tough and Strong. Unfortunately he is as dumb as dog shit.

Spurrier is a good coach. every coach needs time. no one turns a team around that quickly in the salary cap era.

Even gibbs is having major issues adjusting...
the irony is that spurrier put everyone in a passing route while gibbs is putting everyone to block and they both are about even statistically.


now if you are one of those fools that goes by stats/records to measure success, barry switzer wants to show you his superbowl ring....

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

Spurrier was a joke. Gibbs is a legend. No matter how Gibbs' tenure figures there is NO comparison. Sorry folks, none. 'What have you done for me lately' is shortened to 'what have you done'. End of discussion.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

ramsey just needs a new home. i'm willing to bet that he could revive his career with another franchise. certainly he's no mark brunell... but the ravens, lions, jets, dolphins, and maybe some others could use him. i don't think the nfl has seen the last of Ramsey as a starter.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=Luxorreb]Spurrier was a joke. Gibbs is a legend. No matter how Gibbs' tenure figures there is NO comparison. Sorry folks, none. 'What have you done for me lately' is shortened to 'what have you done'. End of discussion.[/QUOTE]

amen...

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=FirstandTen]I'll never forget what Spurrier said on his last Coach's Radio Show on 980am.. The last question he was asked was :

"Coach is there anything optimistic you can say to the fans for next year?"

OBC "Welp..............not much"[/QUOTE]

I remember hearing that with my dad on the way down to their final game. We looked at each other and said that doesn't sound like a guy who's coming back next year.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

Another thing to consider is that under Spurrier the team regressed from year one to two in spite of ostensibly improving its talent level, whereas with Gibbs the team has definately gotten better in spite of losing several key players. So I think its misleading to look at the aggregate two year stats for both coaches and act as if they are equal, when clearly the coaches moved the teams in different directions during season two.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65]I remember hearing that with my dad on the way down to their final game. We looked at each other and said that doesn't sound like a guy who's coming back next year.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but the thing about that comment was that it turned out to be true. The Skins did one game better after he left. That's grasping for optimism if you ask me.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65]Another thing to consider is that under Spurrier the team regressed from year one to two in spite of ostensibly improving its talent level, whereas with Gibbs the team has definately gotten better in spite of losing several key players. So I think its misleading to look at the aggregate two year stats for both coaches and act as if they are equal, when clearly the coaches moved the teams in different directions during season two.[/QUOTE]

I don't know that the Skins were all that much improved talent wise from 2002 to 2003, the two game difference proves that. If you look at the stats from each of the two years that TAFKAS posted, you'll see that Spurrier suffered from a bad defense especially when Marvin Lewis left.

One more thing, season two for Gibbs isn't over yet...

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=jamf]Im tired of hearing about the ruining of patrick ramsey. WTF!!! was he joe montana or john elway and spurrier became coach and made him patrick ramsey?

the irony is that spurrier put everyone in a passing route while gibbs is putting everyone to block and they both are about even statistically.[/QUOTE]


Those are the best points of this thread. Everybody said that Ramsey was basically poisoned by Spurrier, and now, suddenly, it turns out that maybe PR just isn't a good quarterback.

:rolleyes:

To me, the pass protection similarities are the most disturbing of all. By this point, shouldn't the offensive line have established itself as one of the most dominant in the league? Or would that be an "unrealistic expectation" ??

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[quote=jamf]I personally fell in love with ramsey during the titans game his rookie year. we were behind big and ramsey comes in and takes monster shots but keeps tossing the ball around. He is Tough and Strong. Unfortunately he is as dumb as dog shit.[/quote]

There's my vote for quote of the year.

Re: Gibbs vs. Spurrier -- stats about even?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]To me, the pass protection similarities are the most disturbing of all. By this point, shouldn't the offensive line have established itself as one of the most dominant in the league? Or would that be an "unrealistic expectation" ??[/QUOTE]

I didn't really expect them to be a top 5 oline... but I sure thought they'd be doing a bit better than what i've seen. Sometimes there are monster plays, other times, samuels just quits blocking midplay and oops... sack.

It took a year to fix our crappy kick coverage issues... maybe it another year before our oline turns it on full force?