Flags on helmets
 

As a member of the U.S. military I pay close attention to uniforms on the football field. I think that it is great that all teams wear our flag on their helmets. It upsets me that they all wear it incorrectly with the excecption of the Army team. The reason that I say this is because the Stars of the Flag should always face foreword, because they never retreat. If you dont quite fully understand what I am talking about, then read on. Imagine that a players body is a flagpole and he is facing the enemy heading into battle. When he is viewed from the side the stars should be moving foreward. Since The traditional way that we View the flag is with the stars on the left, then that flag should be worn on the left side of the helmet. But all football teams wear them on the right (Army) excluded. If teams want to wear them on the right side as they do now, then they should get a reverse sided flag where the stars are on the right. You may have noticed that our soldiers wear the reversed sided flag on their right shoulders of their uniforms. I know that some of you will disagree with me and say that the flags are worn on the back of the helmet. No they are not because they are offset to the right rear of the helmet in which case the stars should be on the right when viewed. I am going to ask one of the admisistrators to start a petition to get flags across the country on the left side, the correct side of the helmet or get reverse sided flags for wear on the right.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

Excellent point!!! I tried for years to get the American Flag a FEDEX lit up at night as they failed to do so. Finally after 3 years I talked to the Operations guy who promptly lit it for the next home night game. Ask them and they might actually respond.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[QUOTE=CRT3]Excellent point!!! I tried for years to get the American Flag a FEDEX lit up at night as they failed to do so. Finally after 3 years I talked to the Operations guy who promptly lit it for the next home night game. Ask them and they might actually respond.[/QUOTE]
They actually seem willing to listen. Danny boy was asked to put more porta potties in the parking lots and at the next game they had more. Now how to get them to not charge $6 for a hot dog I have no idea. As far as the flags I am not sure I follow. Shouldn't the start always be to the left when facing the flag? That's how everyone seems to think it should be.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=FRPLG]They actually seem willing to listen. Danny boy was asked to put more porta potties in the parking lots and at the next game they had more. Now how to get them to not charge $6 for a hot dog I have no idea. As far as the flags I am not sure I follow. Shouldn't the start always be to the left when facing the flag? That's how everyone seems to think it should be.[/quote]

That is how the should be viewed from a podium. Because the only direction you can march a formation is by giving them a "right face" in which the people would face right and the stars would be foreward. Remember that as you are moving foreward the Stars are as well.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

True...

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=angryssg]As a member of the U.S. military I pay close attention to uniforms on the football field. I think that it is great that all teams wear our flag on their helmets. It upsets me that they all wear it incorrectly with the excecption of the Army team. The reason that I say this is because the Stars of the Flag should always face foreword, because they never retreat. If you dont quite fully understand what I am talking about, then read on. Imagine that a players body is a flagpole and he is facing the enemy heading into battle. When he is viewed from the side the stars should be moving foreward. Since The traditional way that we View the flag is with the stars on the left, then that flag should be worn on the left side of the helmet. But all football teams wear them on the right (Army) excluded. If teams want to wear them on the right side as they do now, then they should get a reverse sided flag where the stars are on the right. You may have noticed that our soldiers wear the reversed sided flag on their right shoulders of their uniforms. I know that some of you will disagree with me and say that the flags are worn on the back of the helmet. No they are not because they are offset to the right rear of the helmet in which case the stars should be on the right when viewed. I am going to ask one of the admisistrators to start a petition to get flags across the country on the left side, the correct side of the helmet or get reverse sided flags for wear on the right.[/quote]

This is no accident Staff Sgt. It is all part of a well planned conspiracy by to take our beloved sport of football and subject it to foreign influence. In fact, they'll be starting games next year with the national anthem being sung in Spanish.

;-)

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=RiggoRules]This is no accident Staff Sgt. It is all part of a well planned conspiracy by to take our beloved sport of football and subject it to foreign influence. In fact, they'll be starting games next year with the national anthem being sung in Spanish.

;-)[/quote]

Funny, but come on Riggo, he brings up a good point. Seriously if you are going to represent your country by using a flag do it the right way, goddamn it. I really do feel they should change it, and I think alot of us, including me, didnt know this way the case. I'm actually not a big fan of the gov't right now, and im not some crazy over physco patriot, but I'm glad that someone pointed this out, and I guess its not a surprise that its a soilder.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

I might get crucified for posting this, but ... sometimes I think the flag etiquette thing gets a little out of hand. But I was never one to hold much reverance for symbols though anyway.

If you're in the military and you've spent a good part of your life adhering to strict regulations about the flag that's one thing, but come on -- it's not like Moses brought it down from Mount Sinai or anything. The NFL doesn't have to allow jack sh*t on their helmets if they don't want to.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=Beemnseven]I might get crucified for posting this, but ... [/quote]

Sorry, can't spare the wood.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

i think this is a little picky too. All in all, the flag is the flag.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=Beemnseven]I might get crucified for posting this, but ... sometimes I think the flag etiquette thing gets a little out of hand. But I was never one to hold much reverance for symbols though anyway.

If you're in the military and you've spent a good part of your life adhering to strict regulations about the flag that's one thing, but come on -- it's not like Moses brought it down from Mount Sinai or anything. The NFL doesn't have to allow jack sh*t on their helmets if they don't want to.[/quote]

I honestly am quite like you, Im not a big guy about symbols, even our flag. But if you are going to do something, do it right. Why do you think Army has their team with the flags the right way? American Football is great for what it is and when the sport shows pride for the great country its from, I guess they should do it the right way. Im sure you think im some kind of overly-conservative freak by making this arguement, but I am actually a crazy liberal minority. My whole pt is doing something about the flag the right way, automatically becomes too much, but it really shouldnt be. Just bc we do not know that this is how it should be, doesnt mean we shouldnt accept it. Just think of it this way, when you are holding a flag and walking, the stars will always be closer to the pole you are holding. So with the "stars should always be in front, bc america is moving forward" argument, it just makes sense, bc the stars will always be physically in front of everything else if we holding a flag. Maybe if the football players were spinning in clockwise circles then the current flag setup would be fine lol.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

Been well over a year now, and still no changes. Doesn't surprise me.

I actually had time to review all of the comments. For those that say that symbols are not important, what are you using to make words with on this forum? Symbols all stand for something. Some are good and some are bad.

While I am not asking you to worship it, I just want you to display it properly or not at all. Things that are seemingly harmless to you might be disrespectfull to others.

This is why I will never show the bottom of my foot to a Muslim.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

Yes, old threads...

Re: Flags on helmets
 

I'm all about the flag. and if its going to be displayed, I'm sure they looked into it before doing it. why not drop the skins an email and ask?

Re: Flags on helmets
 

I agree with Daseal, this is getting too picky.

The flag is on there as support for our country as a whole, not just the military. The military has a view on how the flag should be displayed, but most people aren't tuned into those views. To most, the flag on the heads of the NFL players is just a nice show of support. Whether the stars are facing front or behind, I think 95% of the population couldn't care less. I don't mean to be flippant with the military's opinions, but honestly it's a non-issue to most people.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=Beemnseven;177787]I might get crucified for posting this, but ... sometimes I think the flag etiquette thing gets a little out of hand. But I was never one to hold much reverance for symbols though anyway.

If you're in the military and you've spent a good part of your life adhering to strict regulations about the flag that's one thing, but come on -- it's not like Moses brought it down from Mount Sinai or anything. The NFL doesn't have to allow jack sh*t on their helmets if they don't want to.[/quote]

I agree, non-issue in my book.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

Schneed,
Agreed, I'm not to particular about this, but being military I do have respect for the Flag, and it's use. Please see below:

FEDERAL FLAG CODE:
PUBLIC LAW 94 - 344): para J:
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
I have absolutly no problem with anyone showing support by wearing the flag, however if your going to do it, please do so properly. I'm constantly untangling flags that's been wrapped around poles at people's house, or letting them know how to display it properly (including my parents at my last home-coming party).

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=angryssg;126930]As a member of the U.S. military I pay close attention to uniforms on the football field. I think that it is great that all teams wear our flag on their helmets. It upsets me that they all wear it incorrectly with the excecption of the Army team. The reason that I say this is because the Stars of the Flag should always face foreword, because they never retreat. If you dont quite fully understand what I am talking about, then read on. Imagine that a players body is a flagpole and he is facing the enemy heading into battle. When he is viewed from the side the stars should be moving foreward. Since The traditional way that we View the flag is with the stars on the left, then that flag should be worn on the left side of the helmet. But all football teams wear them on the right (Army) excluded. If teams want to wear them on the right side as they do now, then they should get a reverse sided flag where the stars are on the right. You may have noticed that our soldiers wear the reversed sided flag on their right shoulders of their uniforms. I know that some of you will disagree with me and say that the flags are worn on the back of the helmet. No they are not because they are offset to the right rear of the helmet in which case the stars should be on the right when viewed. I am going to ask one of the admisistrators to start a petition to get flags across the country on the left side, the correct side of the helmet or get reverse sided flags for wear on the right.[/quote]


good point

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=Schneed10;299431]Whether the stars are facing front or behind, I think 95% of the population couldn't care less. I don't mean to be flippant with the military's opinions, but honestly it's a non-issue to most people.[/quote]


It's not just military code that dictates flag etiquette.

Ignorance, laziness or uneducation are no excuses for being disrespectful to the symbol of our nation.

If you're going to do it, educate yourself and do it properly. There ARE ways to display the flag that actually mean disrespect and hatred towards it.

Excellent points, angryssg and thanks for your service. [IMG]http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/salute.gif[/IMG]

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=Buster;299600]It's not just military code that dictates flag ediquette.

Ignorance, laziness or uneducation are no excuses for being disrespectful to the symbol of our nation.

If you're going to do it, educate yourself and do it properly. There ARE ways to display the flag that actually mean disrespect and hatred towards it.

Excellent points, angryssg and thanks for your service. [IMG]http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/salute.gif[/IMG][/quote]


yeah appreciate it

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=Buster;299600]It's not just military code that dictates flag etiquette.

Ignorance, laziness or uneducation are no excuses for [B]being disrespectful[/B] to the symbol of our nation.

If you're going to do it, educate yourself and do it properly. There ARE ways to display the flag that actually mean disrespect and hatred towards it.

Excellent points, angryssg and thanks for your service. [IMG]http://www.rightnation.us/forums/style_emoticons/default/salute.gif[/IMG][/quote]

Whether or not it's disrespectful is completely a matter of intent vs interpretation. Do you think the NFL honestly means to be disrespectful or degrade our country by putting the flag on the wrong direction??

If this is interpreted as disrespectful, that interpretation has nothing more to do than an anal definition of flag usage. If you'd stop and think about the spirit of what the NFL is trying to do, rather than getting all caught up in what the friggin flag code says, you'd recognize the true intent of the gesture.

Which is to honor and support the United States of America.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

Red, White, and Blue! Love them hookies to

Re: Flags on helmets
 

Why does every I need to be dotted and every T need to be crossed for people to understand that the NFL putting the flag on the helmet is a sign of support for the US?

I just don't understand it.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

No disrespect intended, but I care about this issue only enough to say I don't really care about.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;299651]No disrespect intended, but I care about this issue only enough to say I don't really care about.[/quote]

I'm with you here. But this is mainly an opportunity to show the world I can argue with the insomniac who shut 12 people up last night.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=Schneed10;299644]Whether or not it's disrespectful is completely a matter of intent vs interpretation. [/quote]

Drop the touchy-feeling PC crap. If you accidentally hit someone with your car and hurt them badly, you shouldn't be left off the hook because you didn't INTEND to break their bones. If you accidentally vote for the wrong person, the vote still counts.

It's not a military issue, it's a responsibility and respect issue for the nation that gave you football in the first place.

I guess Urlacher's fine should be dropped because he didn't "intend" for Gatorade and the league to be offended, huh?

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=Buster;299656]Drop the touchy-feeling PC crap. If you accidentally hit someone with your car and hurt them badly, you shouldn't be left off the hook because you didn't INTEND to break their bones. If you accidentally vote for the wrong person, the vote still counts.

It's not a military issue, it's a responsibility and respect issue for the nation that gave you football in the first place.

I guess Urlacher's fine should be dropped because he didn't "intend" for Gatorade and the league to be offended, huh?[/quote]

That's pretty dumb. The LAW states that if you are at fault in an accident, you are financially liable and to the extent that you were negligent, criminally liable. The LAW is cut and dry on this.

On Urlacher, the NFL has a RULE that states if you wear a nonsponsored item to an NFL event, you get fined. Again, cut and dry.

This whole flag thing is based on a CODE. Not a law, not a rule. A code. There is a big difference. That code may be taken very seriously within the military, and that's fine. But outside of the military and the Boy Scouts of America, very few people are familiar with the code, let alone care strongly about it. The LAW is generally accepted by all citizens, because if you break it, you get punished. The NFL's RULES are generally accepted by all players because the CBA which they signed said so. This flag code is not generally accepted by the public. The reason that we haven't heard squat on the news regarding the NFL helmet flags is because nobody cares if the flag is facing front or backwards. They just see the flag and think oh cool, they're supporting the United States. Only a select few are anal enough to get their panties in a bunch over this.

The news media LOVES to make a controversy over things when there really isn't one. This is such a non-issue to people that not a single news outlet has run with a story alledging that the NFL is being disrespectful.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;299431]I agree with Daseal, this is getting too picky.

The flag is on there as support for our country as a whole, not just the military. The military has a view on how the flag should be displayed, but most people aren't tuned into those views. To most, the flag on the heads of the NFL players is just a nice show of support. Whether the stars are facing front or behind, I think 95% of the population couldn't care less. I don't mean to be flippant with the military's opinions, but honestly it's a non-issue to most people.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100% this is a total who cares issue. The flag is flying at the stadium and the Natl Anthem is sung what else needs to be done? IMO, nothing. Everyone has shown their respect/love/patriotism for the country and now its time to move on to the game. Its only football, not a rally for the USA. IMO, I dont think the flags even belong on the helmet or anywhere on the uniform as I the unis get dirty, etc. and in a way I see them as being used as a sort of decoration which I think is not the purpose of the flag.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=CRT3;126952]Excellent point!!! I tried for years to get the American Flag a FEDEX lit up at night as they failed to do so. Finally after 3 years I talked to the Operations guy who promptly lit it for the next home night game. Ask them and they might actually respond.[/quote]

Good point CRT! That point you brought up is actually a federal law and can be found in the Flag Code of the United States. If a flag is to be flown between the hours of sunset and sunrise, it is to be illuminated on all sides.

As a retired military man of 24 years I agree about the placement of the flags on the helments. That is the way it was on my uniforms in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

Wartime the stars are forward. Peace time the flag faces the other way. Look at how the flag was worn in the begining of bosnia and the way it is worn now.

Army Regulation 670-1, “Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia,” updated most recently September 5, 2003, addresses explicitly the
proper and lawful placement of the U.S. flag patch on the Army uniform.

the date is from after the war started

As for the rest of the issue...I appriciate the NFLs support (I think it is great they send cheerleaders and players over to see us) and I think it is great the league incorperates flyovers and the national anthem etc..., I am not about to tell an american you says "Hey thanks for your service" - thanks but your flag is backwards. I am going to say thanks, and mean it.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=Kope;299789]Wartime the stars are forward. Peace time the flag faces the other way. Look at how the flag was worn in the begining of bosnia and the way it is worn now.

Army Regulation 670-1, “Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia,” updated most recently September 5, 2003, addresses explicitly the
proper and lawful placement of the U.S. flag patch on the Army uniform.

the date is from after the war started

As for the rest of the issue...I appriciate the NFLs support (I think it is great they send cheerleaders and players over to see us) and I think it is great the league incorperates flyovers and the national anthem etc..., I am not about to tell an american you says "Hey thanks for your service" - thanks but your flag is backwards. I am going to say thanks, and mean it.[/quote]

You got some of your facts mixed up. I was in Kuwait in 1998 and we wore the Flag the same way then. The change in 2003 was merely to make servicemembers wear it permenantly. In otherwords so that they no longer had to remove it from the uniform every time they came home only to put it back on in a year or so. So you are incorrect to say that they wore it differently in Bosnia. Let me guess that you based that assumption on "Black-Hawk Down". It is unlawfull to impersonate a U.S. soldier, Hollywood has to make mitakes on uniforms and various other things.

Look I am not arguing this point anymore. I sent an Email to Coach Gibbs's people. If it actually gets to him I requested him to have somebody talk to the NFL Commissioner about it. If something happens, then it happens, but I am done. I am going to eat humble pie and have a nice hot cup of STFU!

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack;299784]Good point CRT! That point you brought up is actually a federal law and can be found in the Flag Code of the United States. If a flag is to be flown between the hours of sunset and sunrise, it is to be illuminated on all sides.

As a retired military man of 24 years I agree about the placement of the flags on the helments. That is the way it was on my uniforms in Iraq and Afghanistan.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your service. Just out of curiousity, what branch of service were you in and which units were you with?

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;299951]Thanks for your service. Just out of curiousity, what branch of service were you in and which units were you with?[/quote]

US Army

C 1/19th Feild Artillery, Fort Sill
D 2/80th Field Artillery, Fort Sill
C1/9th Field Artillery, Fort Stewart 3 ID
A 5/7th Air Defense Artillery, Germany
B 442nd Signal Battalion, Fort Gordon

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[QUOTE]You got some of your facts mixed up. I was in Kuwait in 1998 and we wore the Flag the same way then. The change in 2003 was merely to make servicemembers wear it permenantly. In otherwords so that they no longer had to remove it from the uniform every time they came home only to put it back on in a year or so. So you are incorrect to say that they wore it differently in Bosnia. Let me guess that you based that assumption on "Black-Hawk Down". It is unlawfull to impersonate a U.S. soldier, Hollywood has to make mitakes on uniforms and various other things.
[/QUOTE]

Actually I based it on what I wore on my sleeve in bosnia, we had some of the same conversations there - but that is how my unit wore it.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=Kope;299974]Actually I based it on what I wore on my sleeve in bosnia, we had some of the same conversations there - but that is how my unit wore it.[/quote]

What unit were you with? I am not asking that to trouble shoot you. You obviously joined a little bit before I did.

The one key factor that I might have missed is that "It is all at the discretion of the Commander." So if that is the way he wanted you to wear it the way you did, then that is what you did. However, yours is the only circumstance in which I have heard that. Other than SOCOM or Black Ops not wearing them at all.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=Kope;299974]Actually I based it on what I wore on my sleeve in bosnia, we had some of the same conversations there - but that is how my unit wore it.[/quote

Accidentally almost posted it twice.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[QUOTE]What unit were you with? I am not asking that to trouble shoot you. You obviously joined a little bit before I did. [/QUOTE]

10th MTN (LI)

Re: Flags on helmets
 

thank you for 24 years of serving our country,and protecting all of us!

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[QUOTE=angryssg;299978]However, yours is the only circumstance in which I have heard that. Other than SOCOM or Black Ops not wearing them at all.[/QUOTE]

See and I've never really understood that. My friend was in the 75th RR and I asked him, "Why don't guys like you wear flags? It's not like people won't know you're Americans." He basically said it just looks cool.

Re: Flags on helmets
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;300093]See and I've never really understood that. My friend was in the 75th RR and I asked him, "Why don't guys like you wear flags? It's not like people won't know you're Americans." He basically said it just looks cool.[/quote]

It's that whole illusion of denial thing. If they aint sporting the flag; then they we not sent by the Government. Yeah right. But in their defense they usually don't get caught anyway.