Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

Our team looks pretty decent right now, and, to be honest, they are a good team. We are 7-6 and in good position to win a wildcard spot in the NFC. We are even on a two game winning streak.

So, what's my problem you ask? Well, I finally noticed something: WE NEVER SCORE MORE THAN 20 POINTS!!! So far, we have only managed [B]four[/B], count em, [B]FOUR[/B] 20 point games on offense. To throw more gas on the fire, we are only [U]averaging[/U] [B]19.1 points a game [/B] (including the 50+ point San Francisco performance. If we take out the San Francisco game and substitute a 20 point performance, our average points scored is down to 16.6 points a game.

People have been complaining about our defense lately. WE ARE 7-6 AVERAGING ONLY 19.1 POINTS PER GAME! This is especially amazing considering our [B]-7 turnover ratio[/B].

SO, what's the problem on offense????

-Is it the playcalling?
-Is it any particular players?
-Is it sheer bad luck?

Whatever it is, we definitely have to fix it if we want to have any chance of being a legitimate playoff contender.

:httr:

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

not sure what the problem is... but let's count our blessings that we're over .500 with that turnover ratio. i think it's a testament to the team that the record isn't worse with that ratio.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

I'd have to go with us only having 1 real threat.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

No one really respects our running game.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

PLaycalling.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]PLaycalling.[/QUOTE]


So what would you have done from start to finish?

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

lack of true No.2 reciever

and sucks to say, but not enough improvement on the offensive line.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

I will agree with Daseal on that.

Things I liked:
- Passing to Royal after the half
- The one throw to Taylor Jacobs
- The runs where the guards pulled and the counter tosses (both big gains)

Things I didn't like:
- Targeting in on certain people too much (spread the wealth!)
- Too many one and two receiver sets (*note- I think these sets can work, bot <b/>ONLY<b> when you spread the ball. Otherwise, the defense only has to key in on 2 or 3 people)
- Having Portis run too much. I think having someone spell him a little more often would really help. It would give Portis more energy for the runs he did take, making him more productive when he IS in.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

I CANNOT be unhappy right now

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

what i think would help CONSIDERABLY is replacing Royal on the line for Sellers in the backfield.

i know it's not very Gibbsian, but Portis THRIVES on having a fullback in front of him, he has excellent ability to know which way to cut after a lead block (ie Denver). and frankly Royal's value as a receiver, pass blocker, OR lead blocker is pretty questionable.

Sellers just needs to work on pass protection; his value as an impromptu receiver and people hitter has already been established.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]PLaycalling.[/QUOTE]
I think this is right. But I think it is a function of our limited offensive weapons right now. We have no second WR of consequence and it is totally killing our ability to get down the field. We need Thrash back in a huge way. He isn't a great WR but he has to be dealt with by the opposing defense and that should free up the downfiled a bit.
I think we are clearly a better outside running team than inside and have been for two seasons. We need to start running the stretch more and we should see that pitch with Thomas and Cooley blocking at least three times a game. It goes for huge yards every time.
I think besides today Brunell has done exactly what they wanted him to do. Be smart and not throw ints. Basically keep us out of trouble. This is again where our lack of a quality QB weapon is hurting us. Brunell has done exactly what they wanted but we need someone who gives ur coaches confidence to actually run a more open offense.
I have no problem with the game plans because they seem to fit the talent we have. The lans are simply no frills and aren't going to get us huge points.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

btw, the one offensive TD we did manage this game was with Portis literally HOLDING ON to Mike "Trailblazer" Sellers' jersey...

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

Not having a 2nd WR to take advantage of double-teaming of Moss is hurting our pass game. Also, I can't remember the last time when we've attempted a long pass on consistent basis. Arizona practically had 8 men front the whole game. Passing game should have stepped up and they didn't. I think it's a combination of lack of #2 WR and too conservative playcallling.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

Turnovers kill drives and therefore kill scoring chances.

Playcalling didn't turn the ball over today.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

man we won the turnover battle for only the forth time this year and that is why we won today. this year in those games we are 3-1 and does anyone wonder why all great coaches stress it? Why Gibbs stresses it?
Gibbs is 104-15 in games in which he wins the turnover battle.

Our defense has forced 9 turnovers the past 3 weeks and that is a great sign in my eyes. IF we keep this up we will be a great team

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

turnovers do kill us, but part of that is the fact that we have 3 main weapons... and nothing else. Not to take anything away from cooley, moss, or portis (or sellers, betts, cartwright, thrash...etc) but you watch one wr and the backfield/te position and you take away our offensive threats. Lack of recievers has killed us.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

There have been some questionable play calling but I'd have to credit our lack of production to bad execution and turnovers.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

After checking the stats, only one wide receiver other than Santana Moss caught the ball today:

Taylor Jacobs -- 1 catch for 7 yards.

That's pathetic, and Taylor Jacobs is officially not up to being a wide receiver in the NFL.

I mean really, is there anyone who will dispute this?

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]After checking the stats, only one wide receiver other than Santana Moss caught the ball today:

Taylor Jacobs -- 1 catch for 7 yards.

That's pathetic, and Taylor Jacobs is officially not up to being a wide receiver in the NFL.

I mean really, is there anyone who will dispute this?[/QUOTE]

Maybe Patten wasent so bad, afterall....

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=wilsowilso]No one really respects our running game.[/QUOTE]

Opponents don't really have any reason to respect it. Even today, with Portis barely cracking the 100-yard mark against the 26th ranked run defense, and with him being responsible for the team's only offensive touchdown, the game was still way too close, and had it not been for that last 7-yard run on third and 6 to close out the game, it could have been a scenario very similar to the Tampa Bay game.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

Thrash has been much more clutch on 3rd downs than Patten has been. This concern for a secondary and third reciever threat goes all the way back to the old McCants/no Possesion Reciever debate at the beginning of the season. Thrash has been the closest to that role, and around the end zone even Sean Taylor was given a shot. next season we should definitely look into another type of reciever to supplement Moss.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]Maybe Patten wasent so bad, afterall....[/QUOTE]

I think Tony McGee hit the nail on the head awhile back when he said that even though Patten didn't have many catches, defenses still had to respect the threat he posed. Now, you can double Santana Moss, keep Cooley contained underneath, and that's all there is to the Washington Redskins passing attack.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=wilsowilso]No one really respects our running game.[/QUOTE]
No offense but do you have any idea what you're talking about? The only two things teams DO RESPECT about the Skins' offense are a) Santana Moss and b) Our running game. That's why we consistently see 8 men up and Moss doubled downfield. The fact that Portis can get 100 yards on anybody stacking the line is something positive. It is our passing game that is killing us.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]I think Tony McGee hit the nail on the head awhile back when he said that even though Patten didn't have many catches, defenses still had to respect the threat he posed. Now, you can double Santana Moss, keep Cooley contained underneath, and that's all there is to the Washington Redskins passing attack.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

Patten was much more valuable than we thought.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I agree.

Patten was much more valuable than we thought.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I knew it was more Brunell than Patten, as the cause of his lack of production. And I'm not making a "Brunell sucks" comment. I'm just saying that it seems as though Brunell has developed the QB/WR trust relationship with Moss, that a quarterback should have with all his receivers, but never developed it with Patten. I didn't believe for a second that the veteran, Super Bowl winning wideout, all of the sudden sucked, when he never had any trouble getting open, and catching balls when he was in New England.

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Opponents don't really have any reason to respect it. Even today, with Portis barely cracking the 100-yard mark against the 26th ranked run defense, and with him being responsible for the team's only offensive touchdown, the game was still way too close, and had it not been for that last 7-yard run on third and 6 to close out the game, it could have been a scenario very similar to the Tampa Bay game.[/QUOTE]

No reason to respect the running game, huh? I always thought that putting eight in the box to stop the run on better than 50% of your defensive plays meant that you were worried about the run, and didn't fear the passing threat.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

Yeah I'd say if teams are stacking the box, they [i]might[/i] be interested in stopping the run. ;)

Skins are currently 5th in the NFL in rushing yards, and Portis is 7th overall. I'd say some respect might come along with those rankings.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

It's playcalling. The Redskins have the most predictable offense in the NFL. There are no audibles at the line of scrimmage, and teams will stack one side of the box and we'll run right into them. We also seem to be lacking three of the most crucial plays we could be running--quick slants, especially to Moss, screens to Portis, and a draw play every now and again in shotgun certainly wouldn't hurt. I mean, really, Coach Gibbs, I love you and will always be in your corner, but how do I, a 24 year old slacker who has never played organized football in his life, know these things that will help us and you fail to see it? Not to mention our jumbo sets on 1st down--no shit they are going to stack the box. And then we put 3 tight ends in and send one receiver down the field (Santana) who is obviously going to be triple covered, and say the defense had a great scheme. Give me a break, any other coach with that talent could have easily put up 30 points on the Cardinals.

Oh yeah, one more thing. Where the F was Rock Cartwright? Poor form, Coach. Poor form.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]
No reason to respect the running game, huh? I always thought that putting eight in the box to stop the run on better than 50% of your defensive plays meant that you were were worried about the run, and didn't fear the passing threat.[/QUOTE]

we're 2 dimensional right now (one more big dimension than last year at least). 8 close up vs. the Portis and 2-3 up top vs. Moss.

the middle is vulnerable right now and that's why Cooley has been gobbling up yards, but he's big and slow, so you can keep linebackers in to cover him (and tackle him). that makes it harder for Portis.

what we need is a tougher, more physical no.2 WR that can dart into the middle and burn linebackers, but take the ensuing shots from the safeties. i think then we'd be in perfect shape offensively. until then, Thrash is the closest thing.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]PLaycalling.[/QUOTE]


I agree with Daseal here. Not so much that the playcalling sucks, but I wish we could be a little more creative.....especially in the 4th quarter. Maybe some more screens, playaction bootlegs......anything different. We can't be too predictable.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

I don't understand the hating on Jacobs, he played great last week, it's not like he's dropping balls or necessarily not getting open, but he's what, the 4th option in this offense? Moss, Cooley, Portis, then Jacobs? That makes it kinda tough to get a lot of balls thrown your way, week before he had a good game.

I think Jacobs could be a good receiver but lets give him a legitimate chance to get the ball in his hands and make plays. I didn't like the first week when we tried him on fly routes. When he came out of college his strength was the routes he ran. They were great and really made him a first round pick (till he had the flu at the combine and bombed.) I want to see him running some crisp routes and be the #1 option a few times. Especially since teams know we don't use him much he could punish some people along the stretch.

I will be the first to admit that playcalling is slowly getting better. We're seeing a lot more runs to the outside for big gains (imagine that), like a previous poster I'd like to see the skins try to get their hands on a fullback who could improve the running game a bit more. I like Sellers more as a pass catcher than a blocker, but he's okay for the time being.

I would like to see us go three wide more often, and I really think we need at least one big receiver (see Vincent Jackson in last year's draft) that you could get for leaping abilities. I'd like to see us go through the middle a bit more, and I'd like to see us try to finish teams off a bit earlier instead of just trying to kill clock. I'm not looking for a Spurrier-esque offense, but that playcall to Royal was great. I was expecting run up the middle and Royal really came through made a good run and catch which I think MIGHT have won the game for us in the grand scheme of things.

I'd like to see the Redskins improve in a few areas, namely establish another #2 receiver, be it someone on the team, via draft, or via free agency, but I really think we need to make teams double Moss but lay awake wondering what #2 will do 3 days before the game. I think that Royal is okay, and minus that one absolutely pathetic game has played pretty darn well this year, but a big name TE could really help us in a division that isn't known for safeties/linebackers able to cover great TEs, if we could use a TE to open up the middle a bit I think Portis would reap the benefits greatly.

I really like how the last two weeks we've been sending Portis outside a lot more. Still hate the 3 runs of the middle that we still do from time to time trying to kill clock. In order to win down the stretch, we're going to have to find enough offense to put the Giants and Cowboys into bad situations. Our defense isn't what it was last year, but it's more than respectable, if we can put opponents into bad situations, we really have a good chance to get more turnovers.

In other news, Carlos Rogers looking like an all-pro, I still think BMW was our guy, but Rogers is amazing in the run and seems to have a nose for the ball. We may want to spend a 3rd or 4th round pick on a project CB to take over for Harris at nickle in a couple years, but Im really liking Rogers taking Springs #1 spot in two or less years.

For those of you who don't want to read the above rants: playcalling isn't great but HAS been improving the last few weeks. Portis is earning his cash, Royal had one bad game but he's been solid enough, need to give Jacobs a legitimate shot at grabbing some balls, if he can't do it, we need to establish a #2 that defenses have to scheme around. I'd also like to see us put more formations and run more plays out of each formation, little more creativity in the routes our receivers run.
WE WANT DALLAS.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

I can't fault playcalling against the Cardinals. Look at the statistics, why wouldn't you run against these guys?

We had 2 interceptions occur right at the goalline, both on really stupid throws by Brunell. You have to figure that if the ball weren't picked in those instances, that the Skins probably would have come away with 10 points between those 2 possessions. That would have swung the game to a 27 point performance.

Brunell forced those throws.

I do agree with everyone who says we're strategically limited because of our 2nd WR situation. But given those limitations, I think the playcalling is doing fine. Against the Cardinals, the main problem was Brunell's execution. His brain took a day off, apparently.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]
I'd like to see the Redskins improve in a few areas, namely establish another #2 receiver, be it someone on the team, via draft, or via free agency, but I really think we need to make teams double Moss but lay awake wondering what #2 will do 3 days before the game. I think that Royal is okay, and minus that one absolutely pathetic game has played pretty darn well this year, but a big name TE could really help us in a division that isn't known for safeties/linebackers able to cover great TEs, if we could use a TE to open up the middle a bit I think Portis would reap the benefits greatly.
WE WANT DALLAS.[/QUOTE]

we already have a big name TE, what more could you want from Chris Cooley? he's a star in the making. i think we're set at TE - we need a no.2 WR

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

I just hope Gibbs has been saving all of his plays for this stretch.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

ill, I love Cooley (although he needs to learn to tuck that ball, he's been giving up a lot of TOs lately) but I want a 2nd TE threat. I don't want a Gates or Shockey who just catch balls, I want someone like Alex Smith (stanford TE) that came out last year. Who is very versatile, basically I want another Chris Cooley, only maybe a little bigger. This gives our offense two weapons who can slip out for decent pickups and make great safety valves. I know it's a lot to ask, but this is probably more realistic than getting a feared #2 receiver.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but often we have Cooley and Royal in at the same time don't we? Maybe I want to move Cooley to TE and get a more typical fullback. But a big name TE would limit Sellers playtime considerably. Either way, Ill, I think we agree on pretty much everything. I just think that we could use another TE (however, I'm willing to give Royal and that undrafted guy from Auburn, especially when Campbell is playing, a shot.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]lack of true No.2 reciever

and sucks to say, but not enough improvement on the offensive line.[/QUOTE]


#2 receiver I agree with. However, offensive lines need a few years to gel, and Jansen wasn't with this team last year with the injury. We have a 40 something year old playing tackle, and that side of the line was in flux with people coming in and out trying to play tackle. Give it some time, I see a remarkable improvement over the second half of the season. Our real tests come in the next few weeks.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

I must admit, I like where our line is going. We have our book-ends, I don't know how much longer Thomas can stay playing like he is, but I think Dockery is slowly getting better and better (still makes stupid mistakes). More than anything, I want this group to stay together. The last two games, though they've been against pretty poor defenses, really showed that they can drive the defense off the ball. I also like the pulling ability of both the left and right sides.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw]No reason to respect the running game, huh? I always thought that putting eight in the box to stop the run on better than 50% of your defensive plays meant that you were worried about the run, and didn't fear the passing threat.[/QUOTE]

Until we can win a game by running the ball when we have to and getting touchdowns as a result, I'd say that our opponents right now are more concerned with stopping Santana Moss than Clinton Portis.

That 7-yard run to seal up the win was the first time I can remember since the Chicago game that Portis and the O-line was able to run out the clock and get a first down when the team absolutely needed it. When this team starts doing that consistently, I maintain that this rushing attack is far from being considered "scary."

I would also dispute that teams are stacking the box on more than 50% of Redskin offensive plays. We saw it a lot yesterday because Arizona is known for playing an aggressive defense.

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]PLaycalling.[/QUOTE]


Ditto!

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]After checking the stats, only one wide receiver other than Santana Moss caught the ball today:

Taylor Jacobs -- 1 catch for 7 yards.

That's pathetic, and Taylor Jacobs is officially not up to being a wide receiver in the NFL.

I mean really, is there anyone who will dispute this?[/QUOTE]


Beem's, it's hard to really see whats going on with Jacobs watching on television, is he getting open and not getting the ball? Is it simplistic pass patterns which are easy to read and cover, or is it actually him? This question may be better answered by someone who attends the games and has a view of the entire field on every play, could it just be all Jacobs? Yes, but it could be more of the rest of the offense and lack of ability or effort to involve him.

Don't know if you attend the games or not, I was curious if the Jacobs evaluation is based on that, or just the fact that he's really not doing much? I am very curious to know one way or the other myself.

The reason i raise this question is the fact that Patten was a very productive reciever on the best team in football the past 4 years and didn't do much with us, so who's really to blame?

Re: Our offense CANNOT score!!!
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]ill, I love Cooley (although he needs to learn to tuck that ball, he's been giving up a lot of TOs lately) but I want a 2nd TE threat. I don't want a Gates or Shockey who just catch balls, I want someone like Alex Smith (stanford TE) that came out last year. Who is very versatile, basically I want another Chris Cooley, only maybe a little bigger. This gives our offense two weapons who can slip out for decent pickups and make great safety valves. I know it's a lot to ask, but this is probably more realistic than getting a feared #2 receiver.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but often we have Cooley and Royal in at the same time don't we? Maybe I want to move Cooley to TE and get a more typical fullback. But a big name TE would limit Sellers playtime considerably. Either way, Ill, I think we agree on pretty much everything. I just think that we could use another TE (however, I'm willing to give Royal and that undrafted guy from Auburn, especially when Campbell is playing, a shot.[/QUOTE]

yeah, we use Royal and Cooley at the same time very often, and i'm wondering if that space wouldn't be better served by Cooley and Sellers, who i think IS in that typical fullback mold. Not in the old ballcarrier way, but as a strong lead blocker for Portis and a short yardage receiving option. I think he may still be leading the league in fullback TDs in fact.

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=9576[/url]

I think one real pass receiving TE is good and short of Gonzales or Shockey we are golden with Cooley. If we had a reliable no.2 WR to go over the middle along with Cooley, I'd like to have another big body in the backfield to stiffen the OLine up and punch defenses in the mouth.