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-   -   The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo (http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=64945)

JackLord 01-20-2022 10:51 AM

Re: The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo
 
[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1308435]I get the economic value but I just don't know if it translates to a home field advantage come playoff time for the on field product. I will have to see if I can find it but I read an article a few weeks ago how home teams in a dome at playoff have a lower winning percentage than open air stadium teams. Of course to an owner that is meaningless as it is all about economics.[/quote]

I personally don't like domes, but realize many do.

Not sure there is much in the way of economic advantage. Getting the Super Bowl provides some fun for a couple of weeks, but no lasting economic boost.

MTK 01-20-2022 10:55 AM

Re: The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo
 
It's not just about being able to host a SB, it's the year round use with concerts, other sporting events, conventions, etc. that bring the lasting economic boost vs having an open air stadium that basically sits dormant for months at a time during the winter.

SunnySide 01-20-2022 11:17 AM

Re: The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo
 
The mini city development is pretty cool. Hotels, restaurants, bars, shops, condos, open spaces, live music and a casino

Get a room Saturday, dip in the pool, get dinner around 7, some drinks, live music, wake up next day, grab breakfast and a few bloody marys, walk to the game, skins win, drive home about $800 broker

BaltimoreSkins 01-20-2022 11:29 AM

Re: The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo
 
[quote=MTK;1308438]It's not just about being able to host a SB, it's the year round use with concerts, other sporting events, conventions, etc. that bring the lasting economic boost vs having an open air stadium that basically sits dormant for months at a time during the winter.[/quote]

That is where I was headed when I was talking about economics. An indoor facility might actually live up to the promise of a revenue generator for the community while most are just a tax drainer.

In terms of dome field advantage for the on field product this is what I found:

[url]https://edge.twinspires.com/nfl/is-there-such-a-thing-as-dome-field-advantage-in-the-nfl/#:~:text=583%20win%20percentage%2C%20while%20dome,won%2038.8%25%20on%20the%20road[/url].

I thought I read it in a more reliable resource. There are other compilations of data that show similar but were from before 2015 so outdated.

JackLord 01-20-2022 12:40 PM

Re: The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo
 
[quote=MTK;1308438]It's not just about being able to host a SB, it's the year round use with concerts, other sporting events, conventions, etc. that bring the lasting economic boost vs having an open air stadium that basically sits dormant for months at a time during the winter.[/quote]

I hear you and that does seem the case at first glance.

But all those things you mention are still more sporadic than not. They also require a lot of services (cops) to be diverted.

The Super Dome has not economically boosted New Orleans. SoFi is not going to make much difference in LA. They are great places to play and the Super Dome, in walking distance to the pleasures of the French Quarter, is great for SBs.

There are already a plethora of convention centers and convert venues in this area. Only a few performers would justify using a dome and the Stones are getting long in the tooth. ;)

Now as Sunnyside said, a stadium can sometimes be an economic boon if, like Nationals Park, it helps promote new development. Something on the RFK site might promote that.

:)

AnonEmouse 01-20-2022 12:44 PM

Re: The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo
 
[quote=TheGuyFromOverThere;1308431]Looking at NFL (or College Football) Stadiums that Iīve seen on TV or pictures I notice that in the US itīs mostly "completely open" or "dome". Please correct me if Iīm wrong.

In Germany or Austria itīs mostly "open field but a roof over the stands". For examples, please google Fritz-Walter-Stadion or Allianz-Arena.

So, basically, you still have the weather influencing the game as it should be for an outdoor sports but the fans are at least dry even when itīs raining.[/quote]

I hadn't really thought about it before but you're right, us Europeans do like a bit of shelter from the elements. I remember my trip to RFK in '94 and not being conscious of sitting in the sun for 3 hours; nice touch of sunburn afterwards :D.

As to the advantage I'd suggest cold region stadiums probably see more home field advantage against warm region teams than not. i.e. It doesn't seem to impact the Bills v Patriots results as much!

skinsfan69 01-20-2022 01:25 PM

Re: The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo
 
The last thing I want is my tax dollars going to Dan Snyder to build his stupid stadium. There is literally NO WHERE for him to put it in Va. Stay over in there in Raljon.

Youngkin can assemble his football authority all he wants. When it comes down to it where are you going to go? Where can you put a stadium in Va?

Back in the early 90's Cooke was going to build it in the area that is now Potomac Yard. That would have been a hell of a location but it never happened. You could've had it there and built all around it. The building happened years later but no stadium.. :-(

skinsfan69 01-20-2022 01:27 PM

Re: The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo
 
[quote=SunnySide;1308440]The mini city development is pretty cool. Hotels, restaurants, bars, shops, condos, open spaces, live music and a casino

Get a room Saturday, dip in the pool, get dinner around 7, some drinks, live music, wake up next day, grab breakfast and a few bloody marys, walk to the game, skins win, drive home about $800 broker[/quote]

That sound great and all but the only place to do that is National Harbor.

JackLord 01-20-2022 02:12 PM

Re: The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo
 
[quote=skinsfan69;1308445]The last thing I want is my tax dollars going to Dan Snyder to build his stupid stadium. There is literally NO WHERE for him to put it in Va. Stay over in there in Raljon.

Youngkin can assemble his football authority all he wants. When it comes down to it where are you going to go? Where can you put a stadium in Va?

Back in the early 90's Cooke was going to build it in the area that is now Potomac Yard. That would have been a hell of a location but it never happened. You could've had it there and built all around it. The building happened years later but no stadium.. :-([/quote]

Cook also wanted to raze RFK and build a new stadium there. Most notably he offered to foot most of the bill.

Discussion eventually derailed and FedEx Field was born. I used to blame then Mayor Kelley for turning down a great offer. But I have come to realize that Cook in his final years could not have been the easiest man to deal with.

mooby 01-20-2022 06:49 PM

Re: The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo
 
[quote=JackLord;1308442]I hear you and that does seem the case at first glance.

But all those things you mention are still more sporadic than not. [B]They also require a lot of services (cops) to be diverted.[/B]

The Super Dome has not economically boosted New Orleans. SoFi is not going to make much difference in LA. They are great places to play and the Super Dome, in walking distance to the pleasures of the French Quarter, is great for SBs.

There are already a plethora of convention centers and convert venues in this area. Only a few performers would justify using a dome and the Stones are getting long in the tooth. ;)

Now as Sunnyside said, a stadium can sometimes be an economic boon if, like Nationals Park, it helps promote new development. Something on the RFK site might promote that.

:)[/quote]

Nah, I mean I can't speak for everybody but it's a fairly common arrangement around here for cops to work OT security details (that the requesting venue pays for) at grocery stores/stadiums/etc. - all those cops you see working at Fedex on gamedays are probably all getting OT that's paid for by the WFT/league - there is no way in hell a department would shift most of its' resources to working a game and leave coverage thin everywhere else.

JackLord 01-21-2022 10:01 AM

Re: The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo
 
[quote=mooby;1308466]Nah, I mean I can't speak for everybody but it's a fairly common arrangement around here for cops to work OT security details (that the requesting venue pays for) at grocery stores/stadiums/etc. - all those cops you see working at Fedex on gamedays are probably all getting OT that's paid for by the WFT/league - there is no way in hell a department would shift most of its' resources to working a game and leave coverage thin everywhere else.[/quote]

They should pay for it. It is the least they can do. NFL stadiums are the poster boy for corporate welfare.

Sports Stadiums are really not revenue sources for municipalities. If they were, Maryland, Virginia, and DC would be lining up to pay for Snyder's new place and the locals would be cheering it on. This is clearly not the case.

IMHO Dan should take a page from Cook and offer to pay for the whole thing himself. It would be yet another opportunity for him to rehabilitate his heavily damaged image.

:cool:

Giantone 01-21-2022 11:06 AM

Re: The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo
 
[quote=mooby;1308466]Nah, I mean I can't speak for everybody but it's a fairly common arrangement around here for cops to work OT security details (that the requesting venue pays for) at grocery stores/stadiums/etc. - all those cops you see working at Fedex on gamedays are probably all getting OT that's paid for by the WFT/league - there is no way in hell a department would shift most of its' resources to working a game and leave coverage thin everywhere else.[/quote]

Not in Uniform, two different things. Sitting off duty in your car at a Mall(just an example) is one thing .Fully dressed on game day with guns and all they have to be on duty. Now can they work game security not in uniform absolutely and many do.

Giantone 01-21-2022 11:17 AM

Re: The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo
 
[quote=JackLord;1308473]They should pay for it. It is the least they can do. NFL stadiums are the poster boy for corporate welfare.

Sports Stadiums are really not revenue sources for municipalities. If they were, Maryland, Virginia, and DC would be lining up to pay for Snyder's new place and the locals would be cheering it on. This is clearly not the case.

IMHO Dan should take a page from Cook and offer to pay for the whole thing himself. It would be yet another opportunity for him to rehabilitate his heavily damaged image.

:cool:[/quote]

He can't. A good deal of the WFT wealth evaluation is in the Stadium and property itself. Think of it as your own home. There is value in it as long as it's in a desirable location and is in good shape. If it isn't, you can still sell it but you won't get top dollar for it and that is one of the big problems for Snyder. The other is the lease deal that JKC made with Maryland , if they leave before it's paid they must pay back all the infrastructure money the State of Maryland spent ,roads ,new exits on the Beltway and a walk to train station will cost the team plenty, I think there are 5 years left on the deal(not sure). A new state of the Art place like in LA will cost 3-4 billion and Snyder doesn't have it. He's wealthy don't get me wrong but he can't swing that.

mooby 01-21-2022 11:22 AM

Re: The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo
 
[quote=Giantone;1308476]Not in Uniform, two different things. Sitting off duty in your car at a Mall(just an example) is one thing .Fully dressed on game day with guns and all they have to be on duty. Now can they work game security not in uniform absolutely and many do.[/quote]

Prince William and Fairfax County both offer OT opportunities where you're in uniform with a patrol car - Wegmans is a prime example. Wouldn't be surprised if MoCo is the same way - a lot of agencies around here share resources and work together.

I'm telling you there's absolutely no way Montgomery County PD is paying the dime for 100+ officers to stand around at Fedex Field for 4+ hours on gameday - the team is paying for that.

Giantone 01-21-2022 11:45 AM

Re: The stadium thread 2: New stadium boogaloo
 
[quote=mooby;1308479]Prince William and Fairfax County both offer OT opportunities where you're in uniform with a patrol car - Wegmans is a prime example. Wouldn't be surprised if MoCo is the same way - a lot of agencies around here share resources and work together.

I'm telling you there's absolutely no way Montgomery County PD is paying the dime for 100+ officers to stand around at Fedex Field for 4+ hours on gameday - the team is paying for that.[/quote]

It's PG County but I 'm basing my statement on a friend who was a NJ State Trooper and would work the Meadowlands.


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